Okay fine. Maybe ATT was a good fit for Apple in the beginning. But it's over three years later. Time to kiss and make up with Verizon. And T Mobile. And the rest...
I actually strongly agree with this. I also believe this is what Apple is aiming for.
One of the critical reasons I believe this is the case is because of the following Steve Jobs statement from an interview with Steven Levy :
"The Mac-user interface was a 10-year monopoly," says Jobs. "Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late '80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens."
Apple did this with the iPod, slashing prices when competition increased (anyone else remember how a couple of weeks before the Zune was supposed to be introduced at a price lower than the iPods' Apple held a media event, revealing new, better iPods, as well as undercutting the Zune in price?).
I bet they are looking for market share with the iPhone, which is why I fully expect them to be on Verizon this time next year.
Verizon needs Apple more than Apple needs them. Apple can?t even meet demand for iPhone 4, but we?re supposed to believe they?re going to cave to Verizon?s crapware? Keep dreaming. Apple can stay on AT&T and choose other carriers and keep raking in more money than ever.
Not making a deal with Verizon was a terrible mistake on Jobs' part.
yes. due to the successes of its mobile devices, along with its other products, apple is now the second largest corporation in the world. what a terrible mistake, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh
As far as the best designed smartphone, that's only true if it's in a case.
and that's only true if you know absolutely nothing about style or design, which you've just proven to be your plight. :-)
Verizon needs Apple more than Apple needs them. Apple can?t even meet demand for iPhone 4, but we?re supposed to believe they?re going to cave to Verizon?s crapware? Keep dreaming. Apple can stay on AT&T and choose other carriers and keep raking in more money than ever.
I?m sure Sprint?s heads would give Steve Jobs their livers at this point.
Some of the Android phone companies do declare (because they are public companies) how many phones they have sold. Based on that, last quarter Apple sold more than 2x as many phones as Motorola and HTC Android phones combined! Now, while Apple breaks down their sales by US and International, Motorola and HTC do not.
That whole post was fantastic, it's what i have been saying.
The US market dominates the press, Androids catch up in 2010 in the US alone, gets all the press. I mentioned in another thread that in the last conference call Peter Oppenheimer said that they had outperformed the market - y-o-y. Where did that come from if android was catching up.
In the rest of the world, Apple doubled its market share. See this ( via Daring Fireball)
3 Month Average of Top Smartphone Platforms in Europe. In July 2009 iPhone is 10.2%, by 2010 it is 19.2%, a point change of 9 percentiles. Android grows by 5.6 percentile in the same period.
Not catching up there. ( Nokia is way ahead, and there is a lot of room for growth for iPhone and Android).
The Even More Rest of the World. I leave that as an exercise for the reader - however Apple is not on all carriers in all countries now, but is doing better than 2009, for sure. Look at China. So the worldwide Y-O-Y
The US is a special case because of the limitations of AT&T, particularly in the big markets like San Fran and New York. aT&T have 25% of all subscribers in the US and the iPhone is 28% of the smart phone market.
Verizon have 30% of the market. I dont expect ( obviously) that the iPhone grows to 58%, defectors from AT&T will reduce Apple's share of AT&T's share of the smartphone market ( which is disproportionate) , but Apple will grow in the US.
On all carriers I see it at 40% of the market in the US and trending there worldwide...
It is easy to judge things after the fact and I think your statement it factually incorrect. The reality is when Apple first negotiated with Verizon, Verizon was being more stubborn. The landscape was completely different at the time. The carriers called all the shots. Verizon wanted to control all the content on the phone, the distribution channel, pricing, and the list goes on. Further, Verizon's network wasn't compatiable with most the world (so Apple would had to make multiple phones for different parts of the world).
In all truth Apple likely really didn't want a deal but was using Verizon to try and get a good deal from AT&T. The price of Apple getting unprecedented control over the user experience came at the cost of a five year contract [per court records]. AS a result of Apple's success, companies relying on Google's Android got to take advantage of Verizon getting desperate as it saw it's market share slip to AT&T and Apple being tied into a five year contract (through 2012) with AT&T (again per court records). The exclusivity allowed Google to get a foot in the door on Verizon and T-Mobile.
Contrary to your assertion, Apple likely renegotiated the original contract with AT&T to lower the amount of years Apple was stuck under contract not extend the contract (we will see if a phone comes out this year or in 2011). If you recall when the iPhone first came out a huge selling point was the customer could buy the phone and sign up for service at home using iTunes. It is estimated millions of phones were purchased and unlocked to work on other carriers thereby getting around AT&T's exclusivity. This benefitted Apple because it sold a lot of phones at full price and it didn't care who the carrier ended up being. When the next iPhone came out, Apple required people to activate in a store. AT&T largely benefited from that because it became harder to use the phone on another network. AT&T probably gave up some of the original years on exclusivity to benefit from that change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog
This is a typical Apple blunder, where they'll negotiate only after they're utterly desperate. Had they negotiated and signed a contract back in '08 or even '09, Verizon would've not had this kind on arm-twisting rights.
Why did Apple extend the AT&T contract that pushed them into a corner, is beyond me.
It's not those thoughts that are driving the forum nuts, it's your arrogance and self-righteousness that's doing it.
It's interesting that you choose those particular words. In all the forums I have visited, I find this one to the the most arrogant, intolerant, and bigoted (from a tech standpoint) forum in the world.
As I have stated before, this forum consists of about a dozen people who want to hear themselves talk, and then their buddies chime in with +1 or spot on or totally agree. Any outsider who tries to comment here is dismissed as a troll or utterly ignored.
Anything I say here is just my opinion as just another f**king observer. I don't really sweep up at ATT, nor do I lunch with Steve Jobs as a poster here once claimed.
Although I would welcome the opportunity to do so and would gladly buy Steve a nice juicy steak dinner.
yes. due to the successes of its mobile devices, along with its other products, apple is now the second largest corporation in the world. what a terrible mistake, indeed.
Sooo, because they are a big company that makes them right?
Nobody takes you seriously, because you?re an ignorant devil?s advocate.
A devil's advocate contributes more than a bunch of fanboys telling each other that they are right about everything and everyone else is wrong.
+1
Spot on
Totally agree
Besides, what do you want me to contribute anyway? Let's be real here. The only reason we come here is to get inside info on Apple to make money. I don't have any inside info. Just my opinion on where the company is going based on what I read here, at 9 to 5 mac, MacWorld, Consumer Reports and the WSJ.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm right, who knows. If I step on people's feelings here, then maybe they are too "into" minding Apple's business. They are a company for profit, not a rock band. The whole concept of being an Apple fanboy is beyond my comprehension,
Comments
Okay fine. Maybe ATT was a good fit for Apple in the beginning. But it's over three years later. Time to kiss and make up with Verizon. And T Mobile. And the rest...
I actually strongly agree with this. I also believe this is what Apple is aiming for.
One of the critical reasons I believe this is the case is because of the following Steve Jobs statement from an interview with Steven Levy :
http://web.archive.org/web/200402012...d=4052227&p1=0
(via http://daringfireball.net/2010/08/n92)
"The Mac-user interface was a 10-year monopoly," says Jobs. "Who ended up running the company? Sales guys. At the critical juncture in the late '80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits. They made obscene profits for several years. And their products became mediocre. And then their monopoly ended with Windows 95. They behaved like a monopoly, and it came back to bite them, which always happens."
Apple did this with the iPod, slashing prices when competition increased (anyone else remember how a couple of weeks before the Zune was supposed to be introduced at a price lower than the iPods' Apple held a media event, revealing new, better iPods, as well as undercutting the Zune in price?).
I bet they are looking for market share with the iPhone, which is why I fully expect them to be on Verizon this time next year.
How to make everyone's lives a little easier:
Click "User CP" -> click "Edit Ignore List" -> type "Blackintosh" -> click "Okay"
Don't listen to him. Censorship is wrong. Don't be afraid of new ideas.
I actually strongly agree with this.
It only took four pages of post, but I finally got someone to see the light. It was worth blowing an entire morning to hear this.
Not making a deal with Verizon was a terrible mistake on Jobs' part.
yes. due to the successes of its mobile devices, along with its other products, apple is now the second largest corporation in the world. what a terrible mistake, indeed.
As far as the best designed smartphone, that's only true if it's in a case.
and that's only true if you know absolutely nothing about style or design, which you've just proven to be your plight. :-)
Our wireless networks need to be taken down a peg or two.
Agreed, but is that Apple's job? Should Apple deny itself substantial profit just to teach Verizon a lesson?
Verizon needs Apple more than Apple needs them. Apple can?t even meet demand for iPhone 4, but we?re supposed to believe they?re going to cave to Verizon?s crapware? Keep dreaming. Apple can stay on AT&T and choose other carriers and keep raking in more money than ever.
I?m sure Sprint?s heads would give Steve Jobs their livers at this point.
Some of the Android phone companies do declare (because they are public companies) how many phones they have sold. Based on that, last quarter Apple sold more than 2x as many phones as Motorola and HTC Android phones combined! Now, while Apple breaks down their sales by US and International, Motorola and HTC do not.
That whole post was fantastic, it's what i have been saying.
The US market dominates the press, Androids catch up in 2010 in the US alone, gets all the press. I mentioned in another thread that in the last conference call Peter Oppenheimer said that they had outperformed the market - y-o-y. Where did that come from if android was catching up.
In the rest of the world, Apple doubled its market share. See this ( via Daring Fireball)
http://www.clickz.com/clickz/stats/1...-growth-europe
3 Month Average of Top Smartphone Platforms in Europe. In July 2009 iPhone is 10.2%, by 2010 it is 19.2%, a point change of 9 percentiles. Android grows by 5.6 percentile in the same period.
Not catching up there. ( Nokia is way ahead, and there is a lot of room for growth for iPhone and Android).
The Even More Rest of the World. I leave that as an exercise for the reader - however Apple is not on all carriers in all countries now, but is doing better than 2009, for sure. Look at China. So the worldwide Y-O-Y
The US is a special case because of the limitations of AT&T, particularly in the big markets like San Fran and New York. aT&T have 25% of all subscribers in the US and the iPhone is 28% of the smart phone market.
Verizon have 30% of the market. I dont expect ( obviously) that the iPhone grows to 58%, defectors from AT&T will reduce Apple's share of AT&T's share of the smartphone market ( which is disproportionate) , but Apple will grow in the US.
On all carriers I see it at 40% of the market in the US and trending there worldwide...
In all truth Apple likely really didn't want a deal but was using Verizon to try and get a good deal from AT&T. The price of Apple getting unprecedented control over the user experience came at the cost of a five year contract [per court records]. AS a result of Apple's success, companies relying on Google's Android got to take advantage of Verizon getting desperate as it saw it's market share slip to AT&T and Apple being tied into a five year contract (through 2012) with AT&T (again per court records). The exclusivity allowed Google to get a foot in the door on Verizon and T-Mobile.
Contrary to your assertion, Apple likely renegotiated the original contract with AT&T to lower the amount of years Apple was stuck under contract not extend the contract (we will see if a phone comes out this year or in 2011). If you recall when the iPhone first came out a huge selling point was the customer could buy the phone and sign up for service at home using iTunes. It is estimated millions of phones were purchased and unlocked to work on other carriers thereby getting around AT&T's exclusivity. This benefitted Apple because it sold a lot of phones at full price and it didn't care who the carrier ended up being. When the next iPhone came out, Apple required people to activate in a store. AT&T largely benefited from that because it became harder to use the phone on another network. AT&T probably gave up some of the original years on exclusivity to benefit from that change.
This is a typical Apple blunder, where they'll negotiate only after they're utterly desperate. Had they negotiated and signed a contract back in '08 or even '09, Verizon would've not had this kind on arm-twisting rights.
Why did Apple extend the AT&T contract that pushed them into a corner, is beyond me.
It's not those thoughts that are driving the forum nuts, it's your arrogance and self-righteousness that's doing it.
It's interesting that you choose those particular words. In all the forums I have visited, I find this one to the the most arrogant, intolerant, and bigoted (from a tech standpoint) forum in the world.
As I have stated before, this forum consists of about a dozen people who want to hear themselves talk, and then their buddies chime in with +1 or spot on or totally agree. Any outsider who tries to comment here is dismissed as a troll or utterly ignored.
Anything I say here is just my opinion as just another f**king observer. I don't really sweep up at ATT, nor do I lunch with Steve Jobs as a poster here once claimed.
Although I would welcome the opportunity to do so and would gladly buy Steve a nice juicy steak dinner.
yes. due to the successes of its mobile devices, along with its other products, apple is now the second largest corporation in the world. what a terrible mistake, indeed.
Sooo, because they are a big company that makes them right?
I prefer to be judged by the company I keep. And that's YOU my friend.
Please remember I am the spiritual leader of the Apple Insider forum.
How can you say that? I bought an iMac, a MacBook Pro, three generations of iPhone, a dozen iPods over the years and I'm a snappy dresser.
I prefer to be judged by the company I keep. And that's YOU my friend.
Please remember I am the spiritual leader of the Apple Insider forum.
I dont see much leadership, but you keep us amused.
I nominate you are the Class Clown of the Apple Insider forum.
/wipes tear from eye.
I was going by what was posted here on AppleInsider and other Mac sites. I did a quick search and found this Exclusive Contract
If you think that that is an Exclusive Contract, I have a bridge in the Gulf of Mexico to sell you.
I would suggest you remove the link. It really could make you look dumber than a door handle. IMO.
How can you say that? I bought an iMac, a MacBook Pro, three generations of iPhone, a dozen iPods over the years and I'm a snappy dresser.
I prefer to be judged by the company I keep. And that's YOU my friend.
Please remember I am the spiritual leader of the Apple Insider forum.
Nobody takes you seriously, because you?re an ignorant devil?s advocate. You contribute nothing here.
So let Verizon sell their V Cast stuff on the iPhone. What's the big deal? Apple bent and put Netflix on the Apple TV.
You know what Apple's problem is? They can't partner with anyone because their CEO has delusions of Godhood.
Do auto industry execs have delusions of Godhood for charging $8000 for GPS systems?
Do airline execs have delusions of Godhood for charging for peanuts and checked baggage and providing you with zero legroom?
Are the oil execs just regular friendly guys who want to clean the gulf to do the right thing?
Are the guys at your cable / sat provider playing God by making you pay for over 100 channels you never watch?
What about telecom CEOs and text messaging charges? You're ok with those guys?
Get real. Jobs is just like every other successful CEO. He just gets more attention because they're on top.
Nobody takes you seriously, because you?re an ignorant devil?s advocate.
A devil's advocate contributes more than a bunch of fanboys telling each other that they are right about everything and everyone else is wrong.
+1
Spot on
Totally agree
Besides, what do you want me to contribute anyway? Let's be real here. The only reason we come here is to get inside info on Apple to make money. I don't have any inside info. Just my opinion on where the company is going based on what I read here, at 9 to 5 mac, MacWorld, Consumer Reports and the WSJ.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm right, who knows. If I step on people's feelings here, then maybe they are too "into" minding Apple's business. They are a company for profit, not a rock band. The whole concept of being an Apple fanboy is beyond my comprehension,
Perhaps someone could explain it to me one day.
Do auto industry execs have delusions of Godhood for charging $8000 for GPS systems?
Do airline execs have delusions of Godhood for charging for peanuts and checked baggage and providing you with zero legroom?
Are the oil execs just regular friendly guys who want to clean the gulf to do the right thing?
Are the guys at your cable / sat provider playing God by making you pay for over 100 channels you never watch?
The auto industry partnered with Microsoft and Apple to integrate their products into cars.
Airlines partner with food companies to feed passengers.
Cable providers partner with HBO and networks to carry content.
Don't know what to tell you about the oil company. They partner with the yacht companies to get the best ships for their employees I guess.
Business is about partnerships. And Apple flounders in this area. Even Jobs admitted that at the D-? conference with Bill Gates.
I think the point has been made.
The auto industry partnered with Microsoft and Apple to integrate their products into cars.
Airlines partner with food companies to feed passengers.
Cable providers partner with HBO and networks to carry content.
Don't know what to tell you about the oil company. They partner with the yacht companies to get the best ships for their employees I guess.
Business is about partnerships. And Apple flounders in this area. Even Jobs admitted that at the D-? conference with Bill Gates.
I think the point has been made.
Oh - you're right after all. Apple doesn't partner with anyone. They do it all in their garage.