As usual, Steve Jobs is 100% right and anybody who disagrees with him is 100% wrong.
Everybody else is blatant liars & manipulators, whereas Steve Jobs is the ONLY CEO IN AMERICA who plays it completely straight & honest with the world.
I'm glad that's obvious to you. His company's numbers this quarter don't lie.
Of course everything can change as soon as the new ARM chips and new batteries are available for them to use. (plus he had his fingers crossed behind his back)
Well, your statement makes no sense really since evidence supports the argument Steve made. You are free to disagree, but the argument Jobs put forth does make some sense. It's not like Apple is flying blind here ... they have sold nearly 5 million iPads. They listen to customers, review feedback, etc. ... and they look at the market and talk to developers.
His argument makes no sense. Users can type faster on a small iPhone keyboard than on the iPad. There are many productivity apps for the iPhone that are both easier to use and have more features than those on the iPad. Pages, and numbers would both work just fine on a 7" screen and there wouldn't be any problem with the buttons as he says. He's either lying or just justifying a position he's already held for some other reason.
did you actually think before writing that dribble?
The iPad is much faster to type on especially in landscape mode. Waaaay faster. I'm typing at almost normal keyboard speeds except for when I have to use numbers.
10 inches is much easier to read documents, surf the web, play games, etc. I love the iPad and think it's the perfect size to do what I NEED to do.
it'll be interesting to see how the consumer market responds to 7" tables in the next eighteen months. we'll then have a better understanding of consumer desire.
I just sketched out the Galaxy tab and iPad in CAD and sure enough, he was right. It makes the iPad seem twice as big. When it comes to touchscreens, you'd assume that the bigger the screen the better.
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
But the iPad isn't trying to be your phone. Then again, I hardly use my phone to call anyone (my 5K of texts took that over).
The Galaxy Tab and the PlayBook aren't the "goldilocks" of portable tablets. They're the "too small" IMO. I personally think the iPad is slightly too big - maybe its just the aspect ratio. I'm not calling for 16:9/16:10, but the near 4:3 doesn't cut it for me. I say make it the same as the iPhone, that way apps scale better (one of his points about different screen sizes). I know it's close, but its not quite there.
Keep the near 10", or maybe 9". that way its bigger, but within a certain range. Make the 7" the new 3.5" and the 9" the new 4".
(which, btw, I want a larger screen on my iPhone LOL)
it'll be interesting to see how the consumer market responds to 7" tables in the next eighteen months. we'll then have a better understanding of consumer desire.
Let's take the diagonals of a similar item, books:
Paperback, 7 7/8" (The Stone War by Madeleine Robins [know the author])
Trade Paperback, 9 7/8" (The Number by Lee Eisenberg)
Hardcover, 11 1/8" (Start Where You Are by Chris Gardner [The Pursuit of Happyness guy])
[Of course I recommend all three... ]
The hardcover comes out first, and is very durable, but weighs quite a bit.
The Paperback is smaller, but so is the print and they're cheaply made.
The Trade Paperback is usually well made and not particularly heavy. Easy enough to read.
Granted, the Paperback sells the most, but *is* hard to read. The iPad, oddly enough, is the size of the Trade Paperback. Hmm...
I just sketched out the Galaxy tab and iPad in CAD and sure enough, he was right. It makes the iPad seem twice as big. When it comes to touchscreens, you'd assume that the bigger the screen the better.
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
But the iPad isn't trying to be your phone. Then again, I hardly use my phone to call anyone (my 5K of texts took that over).
The Galaxy Tab and the PlayBook aren't the "goldilocks" of portable tablets. They're the "too small" IMO. I personally think the iPad is slightly too big - maybe its just the aspect ratio. I'm not calling for 16:9/16:10, but the near 4:3 doesn't cut it for me. I say make it the same as the iPhone, that way apps scale better (one of his points about different screen sizes). I know it's close, but its not quite there.
Keep the near 10", or maybe 9". that way its bigger, but within a certain range. Make the 7" the new 3.5" and the 9" the new 4".
(which, btw, I want a larger screen on my iPhone LOL)
You make very valid points, Tazinlwfl...I would like to see the iphone have a screen with no edge top or bottom. I may be dreaming here but, oh well. I like Stevo's point that if you want to make an Android based app you have to test it on a hundred phones. Hearkens back to making a website and having to "test" it on 5 different iterations of IE. He's right, it's all about integration not wiz bang little differences.
I think HP has cottoned onto this, else they wouldn't have bought Palm solely for the WebOS. But in doing so they are now well behind. As is Blackberry. In business, "if you aint growing, you're dying!" Especially, in Tech!
They listen to customers, review feedback, etc. ... and they look at the market and talk to developers.
Not true if you believe the profile of Jobs on Bloomberg this week. Those in a position to know said that Apple (Steve) never uses focus groups or listens to customers--"because they are knuckleheads." Steve is a visionary who knows what they want before they do.
This propensity can be maddening at times, but you know what? It works.
Political sidelight--ignore if you disagree: I wish Obama would be more like Steve--forget trying to please people who hate you anyway. Working with the opposition (bipartisanship) never works for you. Just do it. Singularity of vision and action yields change, not compromise.
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
Aren't laptops portable? Why is something that is smaller than a laptop suddenly less portable? The iPad has more in common with laptops than phones, so why knock its non-pocketability?
Just saying that even Apple occasionally mis-judges the market and what users need/want. And it wouldn't be the first time Jobs says something to dismiss something and then Apple does exactly that shortly thereafter.
If you are going to have only one size iPad, the current version is probably the best compromise. I just think a lot of people will choose the competition's 7" tablets, not because they are better, but because they are smaller.
Just saying that even Apple occasionally mis-judges the market and what users need/want. And it wouldn't be the first time Jobs says something to dismiss something and then Apple does exactly that shortly thereafter.
If you are going to have only one size iPad, the current version is probably the best compromise. I just think a lot of people will choose the competition's 7" tablets, not because they are better, but because they are smaller.
With all due respect...Overall, I think Apple gets more things right than wrong!
Best
PS. My Mother used to say, "Eventually, everything will be 'perfect,' the grass will be cut a 1/4 inch, twice a week, above your grave. Perfect!"
Not true if you believe the profile of Jobs on Bloomberg this week. Those in a position to know said that Apple (Steve) never uses focus groups or listens to customers--"because they are knuckleheads." Steve is a visionary who knows what they want before they do.
This propensity can be maddening at times, but you know what? It works.
Political sidelight--ignore if you disagree: I wish Obama would be more like Steve--forget trying to please people who hate you anyway. Working with the opposition (bipartisanship) never works for you. Just do it. Singularity of vision and action yields change, not compromise.
Yeah but you're talking about a profile of Steve Jobs that has Robert X Cringley in it. Hardly what I'd call a great portrayal.
Aren't laptops portable? Why is something that is smaller than a laptop suddenly less portable? The iPad has more in common with laptops than phones, so why knock its non-pocketability?
There is a balance of portability and functionality that is hard to master, and size is a huge issue. You're right, laptops are portable, but their portability is sacrificed the larger they become. However, as you go smaller, the functionality tends to go. That's why so many 13" or smaller (netbooks) have reduced functionality to promote portability. But how small is too small? How crappy are 7" netbooks? How crappy are 10" netbooks? Generally, the bigger they are, the better they perform, the easier they are to use, and with both of those makes you more productive. I say a similar slide scale goes for tablets (including smartphones).
iPhone size devices (3.5") - Highly portable.
Droid Inredible / HTC EVO 4G sized devices (4.3-4.5") - slightly less portable, larger screen & thicker body (could) mean slightly more function (camera, battery, etc).
Dell Streak (5") - Portable less so, and without a significant change in OS, functionality is nuetral.
BB PlayBook / Galaxy Tab (7") - even less portable than a smartphone (arguably unable to compete with smartphone on this level), but functionality improves due to OS enhancements, better hardware, larger screen, etc.
iPad (9.7") - Less portable than Playbook/Tab, significantly less portable than iPhone, but functionality greatly improved due to size and hardware. More storage, larger screen, etc. Significantly lighter than Small Laptop with comparable battery life (or more) and OS support (apps/programs).
Medium/Large tablet (11-12") - too heavy and large to be considered for long term usage (reading books, playing games, etc), typically considered a laptop sans keyboard with full OS and similar hardware.
Small laptop (12"-13") - Less portable than iPad due to formfactor and size, however due to convention more portable than M/L Tablet. More functionality than iPad due to OS and hardware.
etc...
iPad isn't quite in the middle either. Like I said, make the iPad a 9" wide(r)screen, and I think it will be perfect.
You have to consider perspective. A laptop is more portable than my desktop, but my desktop is significantly more portable than my Server. A Streak will fit into your pocket better than a Galaxy Tab, and a Galaxy Tab will fit into you pocket better than an iPad (though both may not fit at all). But, then you consider which is better to use for what it's designed for. The iPad has nearly twice as much screen real-estate than a Galaxy Tab. That means you could have a keyboard the size of the Galaxy Tab on screen, and have nearly the same amount of screen space left to see what you're typing. That means the keys are larger, which could mean its easier to type. Beyond a soft keyboard - the UI could be more intricate, or the user could have more control and accuracy in the app. This makes them more productive, which makes up for the larger size. And remember, it's still more portable than the next major step up (a small laptop).
With the smaller size (7"), you lose that real estate, so the UI intricacy is sacrificed, which takes away from the functionality. With a less intricate UI, the functionality difference between that and your smartphone (3.5-4.5") becomes harder to determine, and the point gets lost. Because you'll probably only do moderately better on a 7" compared to a 4". Jobs was making a point that you probably already have a smart phone, and you want to justify the cost and sacrifice in portability with some increased functionality (thus making the device more practical)...
I love to see how vindicated I am on this issue, and hearing Steve's words I feel humbled that they reflect pretty much verbatim what I 've been saying in these forums, since the 7" ipad rumour came out.
p.s. let me not hear about comparisons of Steve with Obama, a visionary with guts on one hand, and a puppet for the plutocracy of the U.S. who never did anything in his life than suck up to power, who never had a proper job in his life. If W. was an idiot, and a puppet too, Obama is worse because he gives the pretence of intelligence, where there's none there in.
Comments
As usual, Steve Jobs is 100% right and anybody who disagrees with him is 100% wrong.
Everybody else is blatant liars & manipulators, whereas Steve Jobs is the ONLY CEO IN AMERICA who plays it completely straight & honest with the world.
I'm glad that's obvious to you. His company's numbers this quarter don't lie.
His argument makes no sense.
Well, your statement makes no sense really since evidence supports the argument Steve made. You are free to disagree, but the argument Jobs put forth does make some sense. It's not like Apple is flying blind here ... they have sold nearly 5 million iPads. They listen to customers, review feedback, etc. ... and they look at the market and talk to developers.
His argument makes no sense. Users can type faster on a small iPhone keyboard than on the iPad. There are many productivity apps for the iPhone that are both easier to use and have more features than those on the iPad. Pages, and numbers would both work just fine on a 7" screen and there wouldn't be any problem with the buttons as he says. He's either lying or just justifying a position he's already held for some other reason.
did you actually think before writing that dribble?
The iPad is much faster to type on especially in landscape mode. Waaaay faster. I'm typing at almost normal keyboard speeds except for when I have to use numbers.
10 inches is much easier to read documents, surf the web, play games, etc. I love the iPad and think it's the perfect size to do what I NEED to do.
- No they can't
- No there aren't
- No they wouldn't
We don't know Prof. Peabody's physical proportions so none of us can truly assess the validity of his assertions. :-)
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
But the iPad isn't trying to be your phone. Then again, I hardly use my phone to call anyone (my 5K of texts took that over).
The Galaxy Tab and the PlayBook aren't the "goldilocks" of portable tablets. They're the "too small" IMO. I personally think the iPad is slightly too big - maybe its just the aspect ratio. I'm not calling for 16:9/16:10, but the near 4:3 doesn't cut it for me. I say make it the same as the iPhone, that way apps scale better (one of his points about different screen sizes). I know it's close, but its not quite there.
Keep the near 10", or maybe 9". that way its bigger, but within a certain range. Make the 7" the new 3.5" and the 9" the new 4".
(which, btw, I want a larger screen on my iPhone LOL)
it'll be interesting to see how the consumer market responds to 7" tables in the next eighteen months. we'll then have a better understanding of consumer desire.
Let's take the diagonals of a similar item, books:
Paperback, 7 7/8" (The Stone War by Madeleine Robins [know the author])
Trade Paperback, 9 7/8" (The Number by Lee Eisenberg)
Hardcover, 11 1/8" (Start Where You Are by Chris Gardner [The Pursuit of Happyness guy])
[Of course I recommend all three...
The hardcover comes out first, and is very durable, but weighs quite a bit.
The Paperback is smaller, but so is the print and they're cheaply made.
The Trade Paperback is usually well made and not particularly heavy. Easy enough to read.
Granted, the Paperback sells the most, but *is* hard to read. The iPad, oddly enough, is the size of the Trade Paperback. Hmm...
I just sketched out the Galaxy tab and iPad in CAD and sure enough, he was right. It makes the iPad seem twice as big. When it comes to touchscreens, you'd assume that the bigger the screen the better.
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
But the iPad isn't trying to be your phone. Then again, I hardly use my phone to call anyone (my 5K of texts took that over).
The Galaxy Tab and the PlayBook aren't the "goldilocks" of portable tablets. They're the "too small" IMO. I personally think the iPad is slightly too big - maybe its just the aspect ratio. I'm not calling for 16:9/16:10, but the near 4:3 doesn't cut it for me. I say make it the same as the iPhone, that way apps scale better (one of his points about different screen sizes). I know it's close, but its not quite there.
Keep the near 10", or maybe 9". that way its bigger, but within a certain range. Make the 7" the new 3.5" and the 9" the new 4".
(which, btw, I want a larger screen on my iPhone LOL)
You make very valid points, Tazinlwfl...I would like to see the iphone have a screen with no edge top or bottom. I may be dreaming here but, oh well. I like Stevo's point that if you want to make an Android based app you have to test it on a hundred phones. Hearkens back to making a website and having to "test" it on 5 different iterations of IE. He's right, it's all about integration not wiz bang little differences.
I think HP has cottoned onto this, else they wouldn't have bought Palm solely for the WebOS. But in doing so they are now well behind. As is Blackberry. In business, "if you aint growing, you're dying!" Especially, in Tech!
They listen to customers, review feedback, etc. ... and they look at the market and talk to developers.
Not true if you believe the profile of Jobs on Bloomberg this week. Those in a position to know said that Apple (Steve) never uses focus groups or listens to customers--"because they are knuckleheads." Steve is a visionary who knows what they want before they do.
This propensity can be maddening at times, but you know what? It works.
Political sidelight--ignore if you disagree: I wish Obama would be more like Steve--forget trying to please people who hate you anyway. Working with the opposition (bipartisanship) never works for you. Just do it. Singularity of vision and action yields change, not compromise.
If there's money to be made developers will do anything.
Nobody has suggested that a smaller tablet should be slower or contain less memory.
It's not about price, it's about size. The iPhone is too small, the iPad is too big.
Some day I believe Apple will realize that.
No the iPad is not too big. It is the perfect size for many. Of course you can't stuff it into your pocket.
But when you look at them on a mobile platform, you need to consider portability, and anything larger than ~5" becomes severely less portable, especially less pocketable.
Aren't laptops portable? Why is something that is smaller than a laptop suddenly less portable? The iPad has more in common with laptops than phones, so why knock its non-pocketability?
And according to Apple:
- Users don't need Firewire on their laptops.
- Users don't want buttons on their iPod shuffle.
Just saying that even Apple occasionally mis-judges the market and what users need/want. And it wouldn't be the first time Jobs says something to dismiss something and then Apple does exactly that shortly thereafter.
If you are going to have only one size iPad, the current version is probably the best compromise. I just think a lot of people will choose the competition's 7" tablets, not because they are better, but because they are smaller.
"We really understand this stuff," Jobs said.
And according to Apple:
- Users don't need Firewire on their laptops.
- Users don't want buttons on their iPod shuffle.
Just saying that even Apple occasionally mis-judges the market and what users need/want. And it wouldn't be the first time Jobs says something to dismiss something and then Apple does exactly that shortly thereafter.
If you are going to have only one size iPad, the current version is probably the best compromise. I just think a lot of people will choose the competition's 7" tablets, not because they are better, but because they are smaller.
With all due respect...Overall, I think Apple gets more things right than wrong!
Best
PS. My Mother used to say, "Eventually, everything will be 'perfect,' the grass will be cut a 1/4 inch, twice a week, above your grave. Perfect!"
Not true if you believe the profile of Jobs on Bloomberg this week. Those in a position to know said that Apple (Steve) never uses focus groups or listens to customers--"because they are knuckleheads." Steve is a visionary who knows what they want before they do.
This propensity can be maddening at times, but you know what? It works.
Political sidelight--ignore if you disagree: I wish Obama would be more like Steve--forget trying to please people who hate you anyway. Working with the opposition (bipartisanship) never works for you. Just do it. Singularity of vision and action yields change, not compromise.
Yeah but you're talking about a profile of Steve Jobs that has Robert X Cringley in it. Hardly what I'd call a great portrayal.
well this news is good for the other tablet makers.
yeah, going out to buy that $1k Samsung 7" right away... not.
Aren't laptops portable? Why is something that is smaller than a laptop suddenly less portable? The iPad has more in common with laptops than phones, so why knock its non-pocketability?
There is a balance of portability and functionality that is hard to master, and size is a huge issue. You're right, laptops are portable, but their portability is sacrificed the larger they become. However, as you go smaller, the functionality tends to go. That's why so many 13" or smaller (netbooks) have reduced functionality to promote portability. But how small is too small? How crappy are 7" netbooks? How crappy are 10" netbooks? Generally, the bigger they are, the better they perform, the easier they are to use, and with both of those makes you more productive. I say a similar slide scale goes for tablets (including smartphones).
- iPhone size devices (3.5") - Highly portable.
- Droid Inredible / HTC EVO 4G sized devices (4.3-4.5") - slightly less portable, larger screen & thicker body (could) mean slightly more function (camera, battery, etc).
- Dell Streak (5") - Portable less so, and without a significant change in OS, functionality is nuetral.
- BB PlayBook / Galaxy Tab (7") - even less portable than a smartphone (arguably unable to compete with smartphone on this level), but functionality improves due to OS enhancements, better hardware, larger screen, etc.
- iPad (9.7") - Less portable than Playbook/Tab, significantly less portable than iPhone, but functionality greatly improved due to size and hardware. More storage, larger screen, etc. Significantly lighter than Small Laptop with comparable battery life (or more) and OS support (apps/programs).
- Medium/Large tablet (11-12") - too heavy and large to be considered for long term usage (reading books, playing games, etc), typically considered a laptop sans keyboard with full OS and similar hardware.
- Small laptop (12"-13") - Less portable than iPad due to formfactor and size, however due to convention more portable than M/L Tablet. More functionality than iPad due to OS and hardware.
etc...iPad isn't quite in the middle either. Like I said, make the iPad a 9" wide(r)screen, and I think it will be perfect.
You have to consider perspective. A laptop is more portable than my desktop, but my desktop is significantly more portable than my Server. A Streak will fit into your pocket better than a Galaxy Tab, and a Galaxy Tab will fit into you pocket better than an iPad (though both may not fit at all). But, then you consider which is better to use for what it's designed for. The iPad has nearly twice as much screen real-estate than a Galaxy Tab. That means you could have a keyboard the size of the Galaxy Tab on screen, and have nearly the same amount of screen space left to see what you're typing. That means the keys are larger, which could mean its easier to type. Beyond a soft keyboard - the UI could be more intricate, or the user could have more control and accuracy in the app. This makes them more productive, which makes up for the larger size. And remember, it's still more portable than the next major step up (a small laptop).
With the smaller size (7"), you lose that real estate, so the UI intricacy is sacrificed, which takes away from the functionality. With a less intricate UI, the functionality difference between that and your smartphone (3.5-4.5") becomes harder to determine, and the point gets lost. Because you'll probably only do moderately better on a 7" compared to a 4". Jobs was making a point that you probably already have a smart phone, and you want to justify the cost and sacrifice in portability with some increased functionality (thus making the device more practical)...
*I said function[ality] 11 times...
With all due respect...Overall, I think Apple gets more things right than wrong!
Best
PS. My Mother used to say, "Eventually, everything will be 'perfect,' the grass will be cut a 1/4 inch, twice a week, above your grave. Perfect!"
"I don't need bluray on my 15" laptop or 27" iMac, but I swear to god I better get 1080p on my 55" HDTV"
- something I said when the AppleTV ($99) came out. My TV is too nice for 720p
p.s. let me not hear about comparisons of Steve with Obama, a visionary with guts on one hand, and a puppet for the plutocracy of the U.S. who never did anything in his life than suck up to power, who never had a proper job in his life. If W. was an idiot, and a puppet too, Obama is worse because he gives the pretence of intelligence, where there's none there in.