Apple previews Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, bringing iOS features 'Back to the Mac'

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  • Reply 101 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    70/30 revenue split?! Is Apple nuts?



    Yea, I can see reams of Mac developers signing up for that shit.



    Listing on MacUpdate $0, App Store, 30% of your revenues.



    I smell a flop



    MacUpdate? What's that?
  • Reply 102 of 174
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timewarp424 View Post


    Avid mac user. Got every member of my family to switch.



    That said, I will not be purchasing Lion if the major features are downloadable (for 10.6) and pre-existent (I already have a desktop with icons). Apple will certainly show more features, but if they truly had a game-changer, one that affected developers, wouldn't that have shown it today? Isn't that why they showed the App Store?



    Come on Apple! What happened to you guys?



    No they wouldn't, it gives Microsoft too much time to fire up the photocopiers. There will also be a full segment of apps that you may not have access to if you don't upgrade (full screen apps).



    This preview pretty much seals it for me. 10.7 is the last version of OSX (you can't top Lion). The next version will have iOS merging with OSX to form a unified platform (read iPhones with full computing capabilities, not iMacs with limited computing capabilities).
  • Reply 103 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    Yes: almost no one buys software at CompUSA.



    In fact, the number of apps purchased from any physical store vs download is way tiny, likely less than 1%.



    So ROI comparisons with brick-and-morter are kinda silly in the 21st century. The real comparison is your web site vs. Apple's. Sure, they have more eyeballs, but they have so many eyeballs looking for so many things that reaching your target customer won't be much easier than it is now.



    Anyone who thinks they won't have to do any marketing once the App Store opens for Mac doesn't ship software for a living, and hasn't even bothered to ask any of the 90% of current App Store developers making less than minimum wage there. Selling software is not a magic thing that only Apple can do. The exposure in the App Store will initially be a helpful addition, but as other online outlets dwindle over time (say goodbye to VersionTracker and MacUpdate) that'll level off. You'll be doing as much marketing as ever before if you're smart.



    The main difference is that Mac software will come with a 30% tax. The only question is whether end users will pay it with higher prices, or developers will just give up a third of their bread so Steve can get fat.



    After watching him today I can go either way. The man needs a burger.







    Understood, the reference to CompUSA is to show how far "advanced" the App store is! I wasn't trying to be "silly!"



    PS. Liked the "burger" comment.



    Best
  • Reply 104 of 174
    rtm135rtm135 Posts: 310member
    I can't believe they're listing "Full Screen Apps" as a feature.



    I've been able to do full screen apps since System 7. It's called the maximize button.



    C'mon Apple!
  • Reply 105 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    This preview pretty much seals it for me. 10.7 is the last version of OSX (you can't top Lion). The next version will have iOS merging with OSX to form a unified platform (read iPhones with full computing capabilities, not iMacs with limited computing capabilities).



    Agreed. Today we saw the beginning of the end of Mac.
  • Reply 106 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    ugh, OSX looks horribly bloated >.<



    You forgot the /sarcarsm. Right?

    RIGHT???



    Quote:

    I can't believe they're listing "Full Screen Apps" as a feature.



    I've been able to do full screen apps since System 7. It's called the maximize button.



    C'mon Apple!



    Watch. The. Keynote.
  • Reply 107 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rationaltroll View Post


    agreed. Today we saw the beginning of the end of mac.



    not!!
  • Reply 108 of 174
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    I can't believe they're listing "Full Screen Apps" as a feature.



    I've been able to do full screen apps since System 7. It's called the maximize button.



    C'mon Apple!



    If you would have paid attention, you would have realized that the apps presented do much more than presenting a full screen (as in maximized window) mode... they provide a second GUI to the same app. There is one windowed GUI with, say, a document window, an inspector, etc. and an app centric (iPad style) full screen GUI. That might not be the invention of the decade, but it sure is useful. E.g. it will allow developers who make an iPad and a desktop version of the same app to provide the same GUI on the desktop (for those who are happy with the simplified GUI and do not require access to more detailed settings). For example: I would love if OmniFocus on the desktop would offer the iPad GUI when switching to full screen mode. The cluttered document plus inspector GUI ruins this program, but it gives you a few more choices one may need less than 1% of the time. Having both would be ideal and reduce the learning curve for users buying both versions.



    Apple did actually start this earlier with Pages '09 and it is absolutely useful. For developers it may mean that a future Xcode version will support two GUIs per app as a standard, and that the maximize/zoom button will automatically swap between GUIs if there is more than one. Once this is a standard, more devs will make use of it and this could result in interesting products. But whining is easier I guess...
  • Reply 109 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post


    Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.



    No, you don't. You're either failing at reading, or at comprehension.



    It's an OFFER. Apple is making an additional distribution channel available to you, one that will come preinstalled on every single Mac, and will probably generate a lot more sales than you are experiencing if you're freelance distributing. The added sales will make up the 30% revenue Apple is taking, if you CHOOSE to distribute that way (and if your software doesn't suck).



    If you're a small independent publisher, what are your options for reaching Mac users?

    -Radio and TV ads are prohibitively expensive.

    -Ads in magazines aren't much better, and circulation isn't great these days.

    -Google ads, listing in MacUpdate or Version Tracker are all fine, but they don't generate much traffic.

    -Hooking up with a major distribution house is going to cost you a fortune, assuming they're even interested in whatever product you sell, which realistically they probably are not.

    -Word of mouth is free, but really...how many people can you reach that way? Forums, features on Blogs and things like that help a little, but are still essentially word of mouth.



    Here's a channel that Apple has already shown works. People will almost certainly use it for the ease of browsing, buying, installing, and updating, especially "new" Mac users who are often fleeing the crazy installs of the Windows world.



    If your product is good and appeals to a large audience, you should significantly increase your sales. If it's a niche product...maybe not.



    But either way, it's optional.
  • Reply 110 of 174
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post


    Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.



    Oh, man, you are a developer, an intelligent person, how could you not see the big possibilities you have right now to become a millionaire in two months.



    First, Steve said: "App Store IS NOT the only way to bring apps to the Mac". Clearly he said that the things will still be the way they are.



    Second, the Mac App Store is a dream come true to any user, and any developer. Is the best way to create an app and distribute it in a public place everybody has the chance to view it and buy it, and if it is good you are going to make a lot of money in less time than you ever have done in you're entire life.



    I really can't understand people. That's the perfect thing but always have to complain... You know what? You must thank God or Life or whatever you believe in, that you have both of your hands, your eyes, and do not live in Somalia or Congo, and you can sleep in a bed and eat everyday. It's not that I want to give life lessons now, but please! Do not complain about every single thing. God!!
  • Reply 111 of 174
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tigerpro View Post


    MacUpdate? What's that?



    Quote:

    MacUpdate is an Apple Macintosh and iPhone software download website, started in the late-1990s.



    found via "macupdate"
  • Reply 112 of 174
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bradleysm View Post


    No, you don't. You're either failing at reading, or at comprehension.



    It's an OFFER. Apple is making an additional distribution channel available to you, one that will come preinstalled on every single Mac, and will probably generate a lot more sales than you are experiencing if you're freelance distributing. The added sales will make up the 30% revenue Apple is taking, if you CHOOSE to distribute that way (and if your software doesn't suck).



    If you're a small independent publisher, what are your options for reaching Mac users?

    -Radio and TV ads are prohibitively expensive.

    -Ads in magazines aren't much better, and circulation isn't great these days.

    -Google ads, listing in MacUpdate or Version Tracker are all fine, but they don't generate much traffic.

    -Hooking up with a major distribution house is going to cost you a fortune, assuming they're even interested in whatever product you sell, which realistically they probably are not.

    -Word of mouth is free, but really...how many people can you reach that way? Forums, features on Blogs and things like that help a little, but are still essentially word of mouth.



    Here's a channel that Apple has already shown works. People will almost certainly use it for the ease of browsing, buying, installing, and updating, especially "new" Mac users who are often fleeing the crazy installs of the Windows world.



    If your product is good and appeals to a large audience, you should significantly increase your sales. If it's a niche product...maybe not.



    But either way, it's optional.



    Almost the same response I give him. Well said.
  • Reply 113 of 174
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by holy_steven View Post


    Now I have to share profits of my software with Apple. Steve you just lost your mind. As a developer of software if I have to share revenue with Apple on software I write for the Mac, I'll just pass the cost to the user and/or stop developing for the Mac.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    For apps sold through the Apple Store, the developer gets 70% of a lot. Selling these same apps through their own websites, they got 100% of a little. Oh, pray tell when will Apple stop? Helping developers dramatically increase their earnings. It's downright evil!



    Then go sell your software through another retailer.



    Oh, wait. They take 50%.



    Never mind......
  • Reply 114 of 174
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spinnerlys View Post


    found via "macupdate"



    I prefer this link:



    MacUpdate
  • Reply 115 of 174
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    I can't believe they're listing "Full Screen Apps" as a feature.



    I've been able to do full screen apps since System 7. It's called the maximize button.



    C'mon Apple!



    I'm starting to believe that some people here doesn't know how to read.
  • Reply 116 of 174
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Then go sell your software through another retailer.



    Oh, wait. They take 50%.



    Never mind......



    Wow, you apologists just can't compare apples to apples, can you?



    A web host and billing system only costs 2-2.5%. The only exception I know of is porn, which probably bumps that to as high as 15% (being extremely generous here).



    The MOST expensive system I could find is regnow.com which handles everything concerning billing (including cred cards, returns, etc.) and they charge 7%.



    If you sell an app though Apple's store you're not only giving up 30% but you have to go through their bureaucratic system to get 30% of the 70% you're owed, plus they don't deposit immediately into your account, instead having essentially their own bank plus they can bump you off at any time without warning plus there is probably a $100 annual fee plus....



    Oh forget it. It'll BOMB if most developers have an ounce of sense and initiative.
  • Reply 117 of 174
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spinnerlys View Post


    found via "macupdate"



    You missed his point. Most people don't know about mac update. There's already an app store for the mac too, although I can't think of the name right now. A pre installed app store from Apple would be seen by all mac users, allowing developers to reach a broader audience, while still allowing for distribution through other channels.
  • Reply 118 of 174
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bradleysm View Post


    If you're a small independent publisher, what are your options for reaching Mac users?

    -Radio and TV ads are prohibitively expensive.



    App store doesn't advertise

    Quote:

    -Ads in magazines aren't much better, and circulation isn't great these days.



    App store doesn't advertise

    Quote:

    -Google ads, listing in MacUpdate or Version Tracker are all fine, but they don't generate much traffic.



    App store doesn't advertise

    Quote:

    -Hooking up with a major distribution house is going to cost you a fortune, assuming they're even interested in whatever product you sell, which realistically they probably are not.



    App store doesn't advertise

    Quote:

    -Word of mouth is free, but really...how many people can you reach that way? Forums, features on Blogs and things like that help a little, but are still essentially word of mouth.



    App store doesn't advertise. At best if your app is ALREADY popular they will list it higher. They don't do shit for the hundreds of floundering apps which don't get noticed. That is 100% up to the developer, as ANY iPhone developer will tell you!

    Quote:



    Here's a channel that Apple has already shown works. People will almost certainly use it for the ease of browsing, buying, installing, and updating, especially "new" Mac users who are often fleeing the crazy installs of the Windows world.



    Back to comparing Apples to Apples....Apple currently has a "Mac OS X Software...." link (which doesn't list much software compared to MacUpdate, but I digress). You can download apps they have highlighted and easily install them.



    With their app store, I expect this listing to go away and Apple to turn around and charge people 30% for the privilege of what most competing systems charge 2-2.5%.

    Quote:

    If your product is good and appeals to a large audience, you should significantly increase your sales. If it's a niche product...maybe not.



    But either way, it's optional.



    What would increase sales is cheaper Macs, not higher software prices.
  • Reply 119 of 174
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    You missed his point. Most people don't know about mac update. There's already an app store for the mac too, although I can't think of the name right now. A pre installed app store from Apple would be seen by all mac users, allowing developers to reach a broader audience, while still allowing for distribution through other channels.



    I like the idea, but the fees are wholly without comparison.



    And for those people who don't know about MacUpdate, well, I feel sorry for you lot. Hell, if I google something as generic as "mac software" it's the 7th link. It has a nice interface and works well...and it's FREE! You can even buy a $20 app (pays for site membership) that keeps all your software up to date.



    Developers don't pay a red cent to list.



    Now, I understand that there is quality assurance and an install system and that is worth SOMETHING, but 30%?!?! Sorry, Apple can spout all it wants about "industry standard commission" but that is demonstrably bullshit outside Steve's RDF.
  • Reply 120 of 174
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Oh yea, and Apple even lists MacUpdate (but for how long?)



    http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...tedesktop.html
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