I've said it already, but you miss the point on the 3G issue. I don't need 3G all the time, and society is working such that almost anywhere you go has WiFi, but for those few times that 3G is necessary, it would be nice to have it when you need it, and not on a subscription, but a-la-carte.
That's a good point.
The lack of 3g to me too, is the only omission in this stunning device.
But I think it's an intentional one, they want you to have your iphone or ipad for that.
You can hold that against them of course, but they are a business and they have to differentiate their products even in ways that may seem unfair to a consumer.
Having said that you can always tether from the iphone or any other smart phone.
Power requirements; not to mention that overall system performance, especially with the 1.8GHz version may not be all that much slower than the current top MBA. In some cases, the new graphics support may even be faster.
The 45nm C2D would consume over 50W at that speed, so of course they underpowered it.
We already know the speed of the GPU, and no, don't expect much.
This is a niche machine, unlike the Netbook which has become ubiquitous. They're trying to make something worth over $1000 using a four year old processor and anemic graphics.
Not that most people need anything better. In fact, having used Snow Leopard on an Atom, I doubt most people reading this post need anything faster than an Atom 330, let alone N550.
I only max out my 2.8Ghz C2D when using handbrake or compiling.
The processors that the MBA use are and have always been 17W TDP. That's how much heat they generate and related to how much power they use. The 11.6" MBA now uses a 10W CPU and this 13.3" still a 17W.
The only i-series processors with a similar and thus compatible TDP (18W) have much lower clock speeds: 1.2 (i3) to 1.47 GHz (i7).
The only big "feature" of an i-series is it's on-die GPU, however Intel's graphics are around 3-3.5 times lower performing than the 320M in these MBAs. Then on top of that the CPU itself is 1.5-2 times lower clocked? This is a case of new not being better.
Every matte/antiglare screen goes virtually blank in bright sunlight.
If anything, the backlit MacBooks glossy screens are the only ones that I have seen that work well outside. True, it is susceptible to reflection, but if turning up the brightness and adjusting the screen angle doesn't suffice, place your laptop so the light in front of you is darker than the light behind you, otherwise best move into the shade.
Definitely agree. My 17" PowerBook G4 does not work so well outside, but I've had very few problems seeing the glossy screen on my 13" MacBook inside or outside.
Every matte/antiglare screen goes virtually blank in bright sunlight.
If anything, the backlit MacBooks glossy screens are the only ones that I have seen that work well outside. True, it is susceptible to reflection, but if turning up the brightness and adjusting the screen angle doesn't suffice, place your laptop so the light in front of you is darker than the light behind you, otherwise best move into the shade.
I have a matte 17" C2D MacBook and haven't found this to be the case.
In extreme sun I cover the laptop with a sheet which wouldn't work with a glossy screen due to reflections.
Maybe Steve's RDF hasn't reached me yet, but I'm not very impressed.
The only upgrade here is the form factor, if you care a lot about having a wedge-shaped computer. However the rest isn't that impressive considering the price.
If you're going to make an underpowered notebook, why Core 2 Duo? Even with a 45nm process, that's an ancient processor eating up probably 40-50w. If a C2D is enough for you, why not get a higher performing original MacBook unibody for a hell of a lot less, and upgrade its RAM. Don't like optical? Me neither, which is why I removed mine and installed a second hard drive. My old optical drive sits in its own case and hasn't been used since I tested it. That allows me to have 1Gig HD space, cheaply. It's like we're stuck in 2006.
If I wanted an ultra-portable, I'd get a Netbook and hackintosh it. They cost anywhere from half to less than a quarter as much, and support QE and even HD depending on the model. Easy to upgrade things like RAM, swappable battery packs, and lightweight. You might poo poo the Atom, but the N550 is a dual core processor that roughly has the same power of a 1.2Ghz C2D, and only uses 8.5W!
Not that I would have ever expected it, but I was secretly hoping Apple understood the popularity of Netbooks was in affordability. I mean, they priced the iPad right, why not a $500 Mac Netbook with a N550? Ah, but that would 'cannibalize' iPad and MacBook sales. Why grow the Mac user base when we can squeeze it?
At least I have alternatives to a $1000+ C2D with non-upgradable memory and a tiny drive which likely performs poorly compared to laptops made over FOUR YEARS AGO!
Sounds like you want an old mac or a science experiment (ie: hackintosh).
You could fit about 3 of these new MBAs in the space occupied by one of the old upgradeable MacBooks you mention. Not to mention the the old Mac's 3 hour runtime, probably less if you are spinning two HDDs instead of just the one. To your other point, not many would care to hackintosh. For me the quality & craftsmanship of a real Mac is well worth a premium price.
I like to upgrade things like the next guy, but get a clue. This is not the Mac for that, and it should not be. MBA has always been focused on size/weight & battery life for the uncompromisingly mobile user. If you need to be on the move for as long as possible with a REAL Mac (not an iPad) this Mac is the best one ever made for that purpose.
There are lots of people who need this capability and are willing to sacrifice expandability and performance to achieve it. This is similar to how you are willing to sacrifice battery life, size/weight and the quality fit and finish of a real Mac to satisfy your desire for expandability and price. Just don't deny someone their MacBook Air because it doesn't fit your particular purpose.
For it's intended niche it seems to be an improvement in every way over the prior MBA.
There are lots of people who need this capability and are willing to sacrifice expandability and performance to achieve it. This is similar to how you are willing to sacrifice battery life, size/weight and the quality fit and finish of a real Mac to satisfy your desire for expandability and price. Just don't deny someone their MacBook Air because it doesn't fit your particular purpose.
For it's intended niche it seems to be an improvement in every way over the prior MBA.
Niche is the word, and not, and not compatible with "lots of people."
I'm not denying that there is someone in SF right now who's choking on his latte and spooging his pants trying to get the first maxxed out MacBook Air out of the factory. I'm saying it won't sell any better than the previous Air, and Apple is missing the boat (and the POINT) when it comes to Netbooks.
Netbooks aren't a niche product. They're a phenomenon, and Apple just sits idly by...
Maybe Steve's RDF hasn't reached me yet, but I'm not very impressed.
The only upgrade here is the form factor, if you care a lot about having a wedge-shaped computer. However the rest isn't that impressive considering the price.
If you're going to make an underpowered notebook, why Core 2 Duo? Even with a 45nm process, that's an ancient processor eating up probably 40-50w. If a C2D is enough for you, why not get a higher performing original MacBook unibody for a hell of a lot less, and upgrade its RAM. Don't like optical? Me neither, which is why I removed mine and installed a second hard drive. My old optical drive sits in its own case and hasn't been used since I tested it. That allows me to have 1Gig HD space, cheaply. It's like we're stuck in 2006.
If I wanted an ultra-portable, I'd get a Netbook and hackintosh it. They cost anywhere from half to less than a quarter as much, and support QE and even HD depending on the model. Easy to upgrade things like RAM, swappable battery packs, and lightweight. You might poo poo the Atom, but the N550 is a dual core processor that roughly has the same power of a 1.2Ghz C2D, and only uses 8.5W!
Not that I would have ever expected it, but I was secretly hoping Apple understood the popularity of Netbooks was in affordability. I mean, they priced the iPad right, why not a $500 Mac Netbook with a N550? Ah, but that would 'cannibalize' iPad and MacBook sales. Why grow the Mac user base when we can squeeze it?
At least I have alternatives to a $1000+ C2D with non-upgradable memory and a tiny drive which likely performs poorly compared to laptops made over FOUR YEARS AGO!
Anyone can build or hack together a machine for a lot cheaper than the MBAs, but most people don't want to?they either don't have the time, the interest, or the technical skill to do so. Apple may have been born out of the "Homebrew Computer Club", but homebrew geeks are not their primary customer base anymore, and haven't been for a long, long time. Apple knows that there are cheaper alternatives out there, but they're not gonna be as well-thought-out or well-built as an new MBA.
And can you name a sub-3 pound laptop from four years ago that has better specs than the new MBA at this price point? (I'm not challenging you?I'm actually asking. If you can, then kudos!)
Yeah, I'm not saying they aren't better than the old ones. It's just that they are only ever so slightly better than the old ones.
I know several people that bought the original MacBook Air and have suffered through the last two to three years with it, the breakages, (many lost their data several times), the poor performance, and a whole lot of insults from people who thought they were idiots for buying it. It just seems odd that at the end of all that, Apple is offering essentially the same device (admittedly with some fixes for the most egregious design flaws.) It makes you feel like you were just some kind of test dummy for Apple to have to go through all that, and that at the end of it all there is no reward.
I also find it kind of amusing how Apple can have a lack-lustre event like this and yet everyone is still admiring them as if they were gods, when in fact what they have delivered is rather mild and not that interesting.
In terms of your take on the air rev. 1 I have to say this: The air has always been a cutting edge device, with compromises, it's been a way to test the limits of design, to go a bit further. Sure there are going to be problems, but nowhere near as many as you mention, I know lots of people who love it and swear by it. The 've had the thinnest, most beautiful (by far, and I think rev. 1 is more aesthetically pleasing than this version - it's a design classic) laptop for a while, one of the lightest ones, and a very powerful one for that matter. Ok, there were some hinge problems, a few lines on the screen, and the very first one had to be throttled down a bit for that awful flash, but we are talking here about a cutting edge product? If apple hadn't ventured (again) thus far, no one would have.
I think you are overreacting. Ok, some people might admire them as gods, maybe because they are immature, maybe because they are in need of admiring others as gods, apple isn't such a bad target to project - they have lots of good qualities. But I think the vast majority of users here who are happy here for very tangible reasons: They presented some very interesting updates to their core lifestyle suit (not personally to my liking most of them, or rather to my interest, but I am sure lots of people will love these features), also some very promising highlights from the new os (including an early shipping date), and updated a device that many people liked to something that is almost compelling to buy for a lot of people, myself included, by fixing and upgrading some of its key components: more ports, better batter life, great screen resolution, very aggressively priced, with an innovatory approach to having fast flash on the motherboard itself, an innovation with the instant on, with options for 4gb memory, which is lighter and also gives you the option to have an even smaller screen model, and without the dreaded to many glass on the screen. They pretty much satisfied most people's requests (smaller screen, bigger ram, better igfx, cheap price, no glass on the screen, more ports) whilst staying true to the character of the air and adding a bunch of their own innovations with the flash chips, instant on, thinner unibody design etc.
The question isn't what do you like about this, the question is what's not to like?
Ok they couldn't get an advanced shipment of the Jan-Feb. intel chips, and they couldn't make this bulkier just to have a discrete cpu in, so they went with the c2d. Big deal, as if the new crop of chips with crap gpus are as much better as the sites like anandtec and the rest of the flock on intels payroll make them out to be. As if they had any other option but including a c2d. This ideology that is stuck on the cpu is garbage anyway, both the c2d and even the next line of intel's chips will look Paleolithic in a couple of years anyway. And what exactly do people expect to run on their airs? The real bottleneck in such devices has always been the gpu and the hard drive speed anyway.
Ok, so they didn't include 3g in there, it's not as if most of us don't have a smartphone (and most of them can tether), it's not as if there are no other options out there such as mifi.
Again, to me, the question is what's not to like with this update of the air?
Yea, because english majors blow thousands on laptops all the time.
Well $1000, not "thousands". I worked in a retail computer store (in the Mac department, of course!) many years ago, and sold a lot of iBooks (this was pre-MacBook/Intel era) to English majors.
Yea, because english majors blow thousands on laptops all the time.
Exactly because they don't they can buy an air once and have it at least for the next half a decade, at least, rather than buying some netbook crap that they can't write on, or some bulky monster laptop to carry around, or some even more expensive niche thin and light pc with that dog of an os that is windows on it.
I personally am in the market for one of these babies.
My only hesitation, is that the keyboard is not backlit.
And Steve's declaration that he sees the new MacBook Air as the future of the MacBook…and all notebooks will be like this one day, makes it even harder to decide.
Comments
I've said it already, but you miss the point on the 3G issue. I don't need 3G all the time, and society is working such that almost anywhere you go has WiFi, but for those few times that 3G is necessary, it would be nice to have it when you need it, and not on a subscription, but a-la-carte.
That's a good point.
The lack of 3g to me too, is the only omission in this stunning device.
But I think it's an intentional one, they want you to have your iphone or ipad for that.
You can hold that against them of course, but they are a business and they have to differentiate their products even in ways that may seem unfair to a consumer.
Having said that you can always tether from the iphone or any other smart phone.
Power requirements; not to mention that overall system performance, especially with the 1.8GHz version may not be all that much slower than the current top MBA. In some cases, the new graphics support may even be faster.
The 45nm C2D would consume over 50W at that speed, so of course they underpowered it.
We already know the speed of the GPU, and no, don't expect much.
This is a niche machine, unlike the Netbook which has become ubiquitous. They're trying to make something worth over $1000 using a four year old processor and anemic graphics.
Not that most people need anything better. In fact, having used Snow Leopard on an Atom, I doubt most people reading this post need anything faster than an Atom 330, let alone N550.
I only max out my 2.8Ghz C2D when using handbrake or compiling.
The only i-series processors with a similar and thus compatible TDP (18W) have much lower clock speeds: 1.2 (i3) to 1.47 GHz (i7).
The only big "feature" of an i-series is it's on-die GPU, however Intel's graphics are around 3-3.5 times lower performing than the 320M in these MBAs. Then on top of that the CPU itself is 1.5-2 times lower clocked? This is a case of new not being better.
Lift the lid. It's instant on.
Close the lid. It's instant off.
Because it is the same for simple people.
no kidding genius... but you have to turn it on for the FIRST time, right?
<I updated my post, found it on the keyboard>
Every matte/antiglare screen goes virtually blank in bright sunlight.
If anything, the backlit MacBooks glossy screens are the only ones that I have seen that work well outside. True, it is susceptible to reflection, but if turning up the brightness and adjusting the screen angle doesn't suffice, place your laptop so the light in front of you is darker than the light behind you, otherwise best move into the shade.
Definitely agree. My 17" PowerBook G4 does not work so well outside, but I've had very few problems seeing the glossy screen on my 13" MacBook inside or outside.
Every matte/antiglare screen goes virtually blank in bright sunlight.
If anything, the backlit MacBooks glossy screens are the only ones that I have seen that work well outside. True, it is susceptible to reflection, but if turning up the brightness and adjusting the screen angle doesn't suffice, place your laptop so the light in front of you is darker than the light behind you, otherwise best move into the shade.
I have a matte 17" C2D MacBook and haven't found this to be the case.
In extreme sun I cover the laptop with a sheet which wouldn't work with a glossy screen due to reflections.
As I said a few days ago, I think these new MBAs would be perfectly suited for writers, beat reporters and English majors.
I think this is another win for Apple.
Yea, because english majors blow thousands on laptops all the time.
Maybe Steve's RDF hasn't reached me yet, but I'm not very impressed.
The only upgrade here is the form factor, if you care a lot about having a wedge-shaped computer. However the rest isn't that impressive considering the price.
If you're going to make an underpowered notebook, why Core 2 Duo? Even with a 45nm process, that's an ancient processor eating up probably 40-50w. If a C2D is enough for you, why not get a higher performing original MacBook unibody for a hell of a lot less, and upgrade its RAM. Don't like optical? Me neither, which is why I removed mine and installed a second hard drive. My old optical drive sits in its own case and hasn't been used since I tested it. That allows me to have 1Gig HD space, cheaply. It's like we're stuck in 2006.
If I wanted an ultra-portable, I'd get a Netbook and hackintosh it. They cost anywhere from half to less than a quarter as much, and support QE and even HD depending on the model. Easy to upgrade things like RAM, swappable battery packs, and lightweight. You might poo poo the Atom, but the N550 is a dual core processor that roughly has the same power of a 1.2Ghz C2D, and only uses 8.5W!
Not that I would have ever expected it, but I was secretly hoping Apple understood the popularity of Netbooks was in affordability. I mean, they priced the iPad right, why not a $500 Mac Netbook with a N550? Ah, but that would 'cannibalize' iPad and MacBook sales. Why grow the Mac user base when we can squeeze it?
At least I have alternatives to a $1000+ C2D with non-upgradable memory and a tiny drive which likely performs poorly compared to laptops made over FOUR YEARS AGO!
Sounds like you want an old mac or a science experiment (ie: hackintosh).
You could fit about 3 of these new MBAs in the space occupied by one of the old upgradeable MacBooks you mention. Not to mention the the old Mac's 3 hour runtime, probably less if you are spinning two HDDs instead of just the one. To your other point, not many would care to hackintosh. For me the quality & craftsmanship of a real Mac is well worth a premium price.
I like to upgrade things like the next guy, but get a clue. This is not the Mac for that, and it should not be. MBA has always been focused on size/weight & battery life for the uncompromisingly mobile user. If you need to be on the move for as long as possible with a REAL Mac (not an iPad) this Mac is the best one ever made for that purpose.
There are lots of people who need this capability and are willing to sacrifice expandability and performance to achieve it. This is similar to how you are willing to sacrifice battery life, size/weight and the quality fit and finish of a real Mac to satisfy your desire for expandability and price. Just don't deny someone their MacBook Air because it doesn't fit your particular purpose.
For it's intended niche it seems to be an improvement in every way over the prior MBA.
It’s nothing like a netbook, idiot.
Its exactly like a netbook, and a very expensive one.
no kidding genius... but you have to turn it on for the FIRST time, right?
<I updated my post, found it on the keyboard>
You are right. But it only once.
There are lots of people who need this capability and are willing to sacrifice expandability and performance to achieve it. This is similar to how you are willing to sacrifice battery life, size/weight and the quality fit and finish of a real Mac to satisfy your desire for expandability and price. Just don't deny someone their MacBook Air because it doesn't fit your particular purpose.
For it's intended niche it seems to be an improvement in every way over the prior MBA.
Niche is the word, and not, and not compatible with "lots of people."
I'm not denying that there is someone in SF right now who's choking on his latte and spooging his pants trying to get the first maxxed out MacBook Air out of the factory. I'm saying it won't sell any better than the previous Air, and Apple is missing the boat (and the POINT) when it comes to Netbooks.
Netbooks aren't a niche product. They're a phenomenon, and Apple just sits idly by...
Same processor, same cache, same bus speed, same memory, same graphics memory, same size, same weight, and only 8GB more disk space.
Hard to listen to you when its not the same...
Size: its thinner and there's a new 11" model.
Weight: 3.0lbs verses 2.3-2.9lbs (albeit a modest improvement)
Graphics: you get the much better nvidia 320M now.
Memory: up to 4Gb now
Then instead of processor/bus improvements you get better battery life.
Plus the i-series ULV processors Intel is offering leave much to be desired as far as clock speed and graphics are concerned.
The 45nm C2D would consume over 50W at that speed, so of course they underpowered it.
The Core 2 Duo SL9600 2.13 GHz is 17W TDP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ge.2C_45_nm.29
What's the problem?
The problem? See image above.
Maybe Steve's RDF hasn't reached me yet, but I'm not very impressed.
The only upgrade here is the form factor, if you care a lot about having a wedge-shaped computer. However the rest isn't that impressive considering the price.
If you're going to make an underpowered notebook, why Core 2 Duo? Even with a 45nm process, that's an ancient processor eating up probably 40-50w. If a C2D is enough for you, why not get a higher performing original MacBook unibody for a hell of a lot less, and upgrade its RAM. Don't like optical? Me neither, which is why I removed mine and installed a second hard drive. My old optical drive sits in its own case and hasn't been used since I tested it. That allows me to have 1Gig HD space, cheaply. It's like we're stuck in 2006.
If I wanted an ultra-portable, I'd get a Netbook and hackintosh it. They cost anywhere from half to less than a quarter as much, and support QE and even HD depending on the model. Easy to upgrade things like RAM, swappable battery packs, and lightweight. You might poo poo the Atom, but the N550 is a dual core processor that roughly has the same power of a 1.2Ghz C2D, and only uses 8.5W!
Not that I would have ever expected it, but I was secretly hoping Apple understood the popularity of Netbooks was in affordability. I mean, they priced the iPad right, why not a $500 Mac Netbook with a N550? Ah, but that would 'cannibalize' iPad and MacBook sales. Why grow the Mac user base when we can squeeze it?
At least I have alternatives to a $1000+ C2D with non-upgradable memory and a tiny drive which likely performs poorly compared to laptops made over FOUR YEARS AGO!
Anyone can build or hack together a machine for a lot cheaper than the MBAs, but most people don't want to?they either don't have the time, the interest, or the technical skill to do so. Apple may have been born out of the "Homebrew Computer Club", but homebrew geeks are not their primary customer base anymore, and haven't been for a long, long time. Apple knows that there are cheaper alternatives out there, but they're not gonna be as well-thought-out or well-built as an new MBA.
And can you name a sub-3 pound laptop from four years ago that has better specs than the new MBA at this price point? (I'm not challenging you?I'm actually asking. If you can, then kudos!)
Yeah, I'm not saying they aren't better than the old ones. It's just that they are only ever so slightly better than the old ones.
I know several people that bought the original MacBook Air and have suffered through the last two to three years with it, the breakages, (many lost their data several times), the poor performance, and a whole lot of insults from people who thought they were idiots for buying it. It just seems odd that at the end of all that, Apple is offering essentially the same device (admittedly with some fixes for the most egregious design flaws.) It makes you feel like you were just some kind of test dummy for Apple to have to go through all that, and that at the end of it all there is no reward.
I also find it kind of amusing how Apple can have a lack-lustre event like this and yet everyone is still admiring them as if they were gods, when in fact what they have delivered is rather mild and not that interesting.
In terms of your take on the air rev. 1 I have to say this: The air has always been a cutting edge device, with compromises, it's been a way to test the limits of design, to go a bit further. Sure there are going to be problems, but nowhere near as many as you mention, I know lots of people who love it and swear by it. The 've had the thinnest, most beautiful (by far, and I think rev. 1 is more aesthetically pleasing than this version - it's a design classic) laptop for a while, one of the lightest ones, and a very powerful one for that matter. Ok, there were some hinge problems, a few lines on the screen, and the very first one had to be throttled down a bit for that awful flash, but we are talking here about a cutting edge product? If apple hadn't ventured (again) thus far, no one would have.
I think you are overreacting. Ok, some people might admire them as gods, maybe because they are immature, maybe because they are in need of admiring others as gods, apple isn't such a bad target to project - they have lots of good qualities. But I think the vast majority of users here who are happy here for very tangible reasons: They presented some very interesting updates to their core lifestyle suit (not personally to my liking most of them, or rather to my interest, but I am sure lots of people will love these features), also some very promising highlights from the new os (including an early shipping date), and updated a device that many people liked to something that is almost compelling to buy for a lot of people, myself included, by fixing and upgrading some of its key components: more ports, better batter life, great screen resolution, very aggressively priced, with an innovatory approach to having fast flash on the motherboard itself, an innovation with the instant on, with options for 4gb memory, which is lighter and also gives you the option to have an even smaller screen model, and without the dreaded to many glass on the screen. They pretty much satisfied most people's requests (smaller screen, bigger ram, better igfx, cheap price, no glass on the screen, more ports) whilst staying true to the character of the air and adding a bunch of their own innovations with the flash chips, instant on, thinner unibody design etc.
The question isn't what do you like about this, the question is what's not to like?
Ok they couldn't get an advanced shipment of the Jan-Feb. intel chips, and they couldn't make this bulkier just to have a discrete cpu in, so they went with the c2d. Big deal, as if the new crop of chips with crap gpus are as much better as the sites like anandtec and the rest of the flock on intels payroll make them out to be. As if they had any other option but including a c2d. This ideology that is stuck on the cpu is garbage anyway, both the c2d and even the next line of intel's chips will look Paleolithic in a couple of years anyway. And what exactly do people expect to run on their airs? The real bottleneck in such devices has always been the gpu and the hard drive speed anyway.
Ok, so they didn't include 3g in there, it's not as if most of us don't have a smartphone (and most of them can tether), it's not as if there are no other options out there such as mifi.
Again, to me, the question is what's not to like with this update of the air?
Yea, because english majors blow thousands on laptops all the time.
Well $1000, not "thousands". I worked in a retail computer store (in the Mac department, of course!) many years ago, and sold a lot of iBooks (this was pre-MacBook/Intel era) to English majors.
Yea, because english majors blow thousands on laptops all the time.
Exactly because they don't they can buy an air once and have it at least for the next half a decade, at least, rather than buying some netbook crap that they can't write on, or some bulky monster laptop to carry around, or some even more expensive niche thin and light pc with that dog of an os that is windows on it.
You are joking about the battery life, right?
Not at all.
My only hesitation, is that the keyboard is not backlit.
And Steve's declaration that he sees the new MacBook Air as the future of the MacBook…and all notebooks will be like this one day, makes it even harder to decide.
Should I wait?
More important, can I afford to wait?