Maybe I'm forgetting how long they hyped Leopard before releasing it, but Lion won't be available until next summer?? Seems a little preliminary to start demoing. I'd imagine significant changes will take place before it's actual release. Which may or may not allow for refinements to Mission Control, which just looks messy to me. I like to keep my screen a little tidier than that.
Maybe I'm forgetting how long they hyped Leopard before releasing it, but Lion won't be available until next summer?? Seems a little preliminary to start demoing. I'd imagine significant changes will take place before it's actual release. Which may or may not allow for refinements to Mission Control, which just looks messy to me. I like to keep my screen a little tidier than that.
IIRC, the lead times have been about 18 months, I think, for the more modern demos. First they do a ?preview? demo, then there a bunch of private betas to select devs, then the real demo (unfortunately it?s mostly rehashing the stuff we already saw), then betas to all Mac devs.
The benefit here is that they mostly seem to only be changing the UI this time. Last time it was mostly the underpinnngs. A Tik Tok method á la Intel. This has the benefit of focusing on a major area, but in this case it can mean a a faster time to market since older apps shouldnt?be affected by the UI change much (if at all) if the underpinnings are staying in place this time around.
If we?re talking the end of August, that is about 9 months until this goes Gold Master. Pretty short for a modern and mature desktop OS, IMO.
I think they could have done more. They managed to give users a way more simple way to find, buy, install and use apps - while at the same time making how you interact with the whole OS more complex, somehow. Mission Control is a disaster in my opinion. I think they could have spent all that time rethinking the dock, and how Launchpad affects the idea of needing a dock at all. Among other things.
I do think having both Launchpad and the Doc is redundant but there is a reason why the OS is not shipping till next summer. I'm sure Apple will be fine tuning and making Lion clutter free, one could hope anyway.
With the number of apps Mac users are likely to download, the conventional Mac OS X Dock needs a replacement. Already, many users have grown past the limited capacity inherent in the Dock
Not really, people just don't understand what the Dock is for. It's a quick launcher for apps you use a lot. Some people just dump every single app on their computer into it. The application stack works pretty well. I don't like the Launch Pad idea. I'd much rather they just made stacks more flexible so rather than it being a folder, it's a group of items. This way you can have a single app grouped beside project files or you can have the office suite in one stack and the CS Suite in another and it would allow you to choose which icon contained in the stack to use for the Dock icon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Also new in Lion is expanded use of full screen displays within apps.
This new behavior is more like that of the comparable button on Windows, albeit rather than only making the window as large as possible, it actually enters a full screen mode where the app takes over the entire screen and loses its window borders, controls and customary scroll bars entirely.
In some ways this can be useful but in others it's still going to be inconsistent. iTunes has always been the worst here because it shrinks the window to a small player. The only way to fix it would be clicking alt-+ to make it make a minimal player or use the lozenge for this.
I personally think the window controls need to be rethought. I would rather they were hidden entirely on all except the active window and appear on background windows when hovered over and rather than the +/- buttons, have active states on the right hand side that are ordered by window dimension, like this:
Left-most state when clicked minimises, right-most goes full-screen. Middle ones can do lozenge actions. You can define up to a certain number of states, say 5 and hovering over them can show a help as to what they do or they can be colour coded. Separating states from close means you don't accidentally minimise when closing and vice-versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Mission Control
Horrible name - are they getting their kids to name these now? They should have called it Exposé and just said it integrated the other features. Even Dashboard would have been fine and the keyboard icon is nicer.
I don't like that Dashboard will come into view using Exposé as it always hiccups. The more content to render, the slower it goes. That's why I turned off Top Sites in Safari after a couple of days. Multiple desktops with Spaces was always going to be a specialised feature almost no one would use so this change is good IMO but the functionality it offered is removed for the odd few that used it as it looks like you only get a choice of each individual app in full-screen or all windowed apps together.
Concerning the Mac App Store, I don't get how the 70/30 split will work. If a games company sells a $50 game, are they going to give Apple $15 for every sale? I think what's going to happen is that they fill the Mac Store with free demos and get people to buy the full app direct from their site and keep the whole amount. Can you imagine Adobe giving away $600 for a CS Suite sale or Autodesk?
I reckon Apple needs to cap that ratio. For example 70/30 split up to a maximum of $50 going to Apple per sale. they are only providing bandwidth and foot-traffic. $50 for every purchase is plenty. Even if the split drops the higher value the item is.
I find it interesting that so many here have criticized the implementation the new more iOS style features as being useless, since they don't work for them.
In fact, I think the interesting thing about these ideas is that they're totally voluntary. If you don't want to use mission control- DON'T. If you don't want to buy apps through the appStore- DON'T. If launchpad seems like a Mickey Mouse way to view your applications- DON'T USE IT!
Keep using your mac the way you are. Buy your software how you want.
I think what Apple might have tweaked onto over the last 4 years since the iPhone came out, is that there is a GREAT MANY people who still feel daunted by the average computer experience. Anyone who finds themselves acting as impromptu tech support for friends and family can attest to this fact. "Where are my files?". "What do you mean it didn't save?". Moreover, the success of the iPad for people who've never used a computer before only further illustrates that we still haven't reached the intuitive and consumer oriented paradigm that probably 80% of people are looking for.
So imagine the benefits for Apple if they can bring a truly accessible OS to market. An OS that services people of DIFFERENT skill levels. For those who want a simple and clean experience, the layer is there to make personal computing a pleasant and less frustrating one, but if you're in a pro oriented field, or have the depth of knowledge and want to dig deeper, the more traditional paradigm is there. This could mean a HUGE opportunity for Apple to seize market-share from a group that's looking for a decidedly non-techie computing experience.
it's very much a parallel to the comments I see about the Air. People in various groups decrying the machines deficiencies- when they're not deficiencies! It's called specialization! As a pro editor, the Air ain't for me. But I can certainly imagine a group looking for an ultralight portable that's NOT a netbook; with a nice display and full size keyboard. It's not for 3D animation. It's not for a video pro like myself. It's probably not the world's best gaming machine. It is what it is, and if what it is ain't for you, that's not the Air's problem, and it shouldn't be yours!
Concerning the Mac App Store, I don't get how the 70/30 split will work. If a games company sells a $50 game, are they going to give Apple $15 for every sale? I think what's going to happen is that they fill the Mac Store with free demos and get people to buy the full app direct from their site and keep the whole amount. Can you imagine Adobe giving away $600 for a CS Suite sale or Autodesk?
They may be giving up 30% of revenue at the point of sale, but think of all the things they're saving on: packaging, shipping, advertising. When you buy a product in the store, do you really think that the company that made it is getting 100% of that retail price?
As to your second point- let's be clear, you're not going to see apps like CS Suite, Final Cut Studio or 3D Studio Max on the appStore. Inherently, these expensive software packages are LARGE installs containing gigs of data, that would be impractical to download electronically. So the point is sort of moot.
it's very much a parallel to the comments I see about the Air. People in various groups decrying the machines deficiencies- when they're not deficiencies! It's called specialization! As a pro editor, the Air ain't for me. But I can certainly imagine a group looking for an ultralight portable that's NOT a netbook; with a nice display and full size keyboard. It's not for 3D animation. It's not for a video pro like myself. It's probably not the world's best gaming machine. It is what it is, and if what it is ain't for you, that's not the Air's problem, and it shouldn't be yours!
Very well said! I'm thinking the same thing here. I don't have any use for a Mac Pro, but I don't go to the Mac Pro News and trash the product. I just don't buy it!
Today's announcement indicated that Apple envisioned an App Store for Mac titles (facilitating easy shopping, software updates, and simple installation). Unfortunately they've already demonstrated their unwillingness to offer ongoing support for their current resource for Mac users to keep up to date on the latest offerings for Apple Macs:
This site is frequently ignored for days or weeks at a time, whereas MacUpdate provides daily releases of information regarding new additions to the plethora of software developed or improved upon for Apple Macs.
Doesn't provide much confidence in the reliability of today's proposed AppStore.
I'm thinking all the changes make perfect sense. Apple clearly sees the Mac market expanding due to interest in its iOS platform. There were 25 million iOS devices in the last quarter alone, compared with almost 4 million Macs. Apple probably thinks they'll be able to get many of these iOS users to move to Macs. The best way to accomplish that would be to give them an interface that somewhat resembles an experience they're already used to. That's exactly what was demonstrated today, in fact, they were they only features shown off today. Everything was somewhat related to the look and feel of the iPad.
However, the thing is, Apple can make Mac OS X more iPad-like and still keep it completely open. Just as they have a completely self sufficient graphical interface sitting on top an underlying POSIX Unix system. Having an optional higher-level GUI for users coming from iOS devices doesn't have to take away anything from current users.
The alarmist reactions coming from some people is completely unfounded and furthermore a bit naive. The Mac platform has always been and always will be an open development platform. iOS platform is an end user, consumer platform and as such doesn't need to be completely open to all things.
I have to agree. Mission Control looks very poorly conceived and a right awful mess to navigate. Also, did anyone else catch the presenter's trouble with the multi-touch mouse? I think they're going to get a lot of negative feedback on this release.
Wow, you predicted that Apple would make Mac OS X look and act like their cash cow. Congrats, you're a genius.
I'm not trying to say I'm a genius or get a pat on the back, smart-ass. What I'm saying is I correctly predicted the change from the zoom-window button to a fullscreen button. Whether that offends you or not doesn't matter, it's true. I said I wanted such a feature because I've seen many a novice user get confused by the zoom button. Apple are all about ease-of-use, usually, that's why they did it. They saw the light, and not just to please ex-windows users, but all users - bar those who detest change.
That was a good call be my on the zoom-window button becoming a fullscreen button.
I have to say though, I'm not happy with Mission Control. I find it very confusing compared to the way the Mac is now. I know this is beta software, but I think they need to do some rethinking/re-engineering on that. It's sort of a mess in my opinion. I do however like the Launchpad, but I think the dock should be hidden when Launchpad is open, with arrow-buttons for going through app pages - in addition to those gestures. I don't have a magic-trackpad, and I never will.
Maybe the Hide Dock function could include such and option.
App store needs a bit of a UI overhaul. It looks pretty ugly (the frame not the contents). And we need explicit guarantees that it will never become the only way to buy software on a mac.
OS-X has never had a "maximise" button or any button that acts as a maximise button.
Ireland should have bet money because the zoom button behaviour has been around since before OS-X and not only hasn't changed, but has weathered an almost constant storm of criticism from switchers who think it should behave like a maxmise button.
The fact that they are (apparently) ditching the zoom button is epic actually.
Contrary to common opinion on these forums (I don't mean yours), I don't say this stuff to get a pat on the back. I'm grateful it's noticed - but that's not the reason I bring it up. I say it because I mean it, and I think you do to.
Yes the mouse thing was awkward. Kind of reminds me of trying to load groceries into your car while the shopping cart keeps trying roll away. The mouse is made to move but those types of gestures need to have something like an actual track pad otherwise, when you make a swipe, you move the mouse instead.
I saw the poor guy was shaking like a leaf and probably sweating profusely too which wasn't helping the track pad.
Personally, I have zero interest in a touch screen Mac. I think it would be a terrible idea unless the form factor is completely revamped to make more ergonomic sense.
Maybe the Hide Dock function could include such and option.
No. It should auto-hide when viewing the iPad-style home screen. With perhaps text reading: "press esc key to exit". And arrows for viewing other home screens. It's nice to have gestures, but no one wants to be forced to use them.
Comments
Maybe I'm forgetting how long they hyped Leopard before releasing it, but Lion won't be available until next summer?? Seems a little preliminary to start demoing. I'd imagine significant changes will take place before it's actual release. Which may or may not allow for refinements to Mission Control, which just looks messy to me. I like to keep my screen a little tidier than that.
IIRC, the lead times have been about 18 months, I think, for the more modern demos. First they do a ?preview? demo, then there a bunch of private betas to select devs, then the real demo (unfortunately it?s mostly rehashing the stuff we already saw), then betas to all Mac devs.
The benefit here is that they mostly seem to only be changing the UI this time. Last time it was mostly the underpinnngs. A Tik Tok method á la Intel. This has the benefit of focusing on a major area, but in this case it can mean a a faster time to market since older apps shouldnt?be affected by the UI change much (if at all) if the underpinnings are staying in place this time around.
If we?re talking the end of August, that is about 9 months until this goes Gold Master. Pretty short for a modern and mature desktop OS, IMO.
Our egos would clash, lol.
I think they could have done more. They managed to give users a way more simple way to find, buy, install and use apps - while at the same time making how you interact with the whole OS more complex, somehow. Mission Control is a disaster in my opinion. I think they could have spent all that time rethinking the dock, and how Launchpad affects the idea of needing a dock at all. Among other things.
I do think having both Launchpad and the Doc is redundant but there is a reason why the OS is not shipping till next summer. I'm sure Apple will be fine tuning and making Lion clutter free, one could hope anyway.
the company flatly said it research has colluded
Freudian slip?
With the number of apps Mac users are likely to download, the conventional Mac OS X Dock needs a replacement. Already, many users have grown past the limited capacity inherent in the Dock
Not really, people just don't understand what the Dock is for. It's a quick launcher for apps you use a lot. Some people just dump every single app on their computer into it. The application stack works pretty well. I don't like the Launch Pad idea. I'd much rather they just made stacks more flexible so rather than it being a folder, it's a group of items. This way you can have a single app grouped beside project files or you can have the office suite in one stack and the CS Suite in another and it would allow you to choose which icon contained in the stack to use for the Dock icon.
Also new in Lion is expanded use of full screen displays within apps.
This new behavior is more like that of the comparable button on Windows, albeit rather than only making the window as large as possible, it actually enters a full screen mode where the app takes over the entire screen and loses its window borders, controls and customary scroll bars entirely.
In some ways this can be useful but in others it's still going to be inconsistent. iTunes has always been the worst here because it shrinks the window to a small player. The only way to fix it would be clicking alt-+ to make it make a minimal player or use the lozenge for this.
I personally think the window controls need to be rethought. I would rather they were hidden entirely on all except the active window and appear on background windows when hovered over and rather than the +/- buttons, have active states on the right hand side that are ordered by window dimension, like this:
Left-most state when clicked minimises, right-most goes full-screen. Middle ones can do lozenge actions. You can define up to a certain number of states, say 5 and hovering over them can show a help as to what they do or they can be colour coded. Separating states from close means you don't accidentally minimise when closing and vice-versa.
Mission Control
Horrible name - are they getting their kids to name these now? They should have called it Exposé and just said it integrated the other features. Even Dashboard would have been fine and the keyboard icon is nicer.
I don't like that Dashboard will come into view using Exposé as it always hiccups. The more content to render, the slower it goes. That's why I turned off Top Sites in Safari after a couple of days. Multiple desktops with Spaces was always going to be a specialised feature almost no one would use so this change is good IMO but the functionality it offered is removed for the odd few that used it as it looks like you only get a choice of each individual app in full-screen or all windowed apps together.
Concerning the Mac App Store, I don't get how the 70/30 split will work. If a games company sells a $50 game, are they going to give Apple $15 for every sale? I think what's going to happen is that they fill the Mac Store with free demos and get people to buy the full app direct from their site and keep the whole amount. Can you imagine Adobe giving away $600 for a CS Suite sale or Autodesk?
I reckon Apple needs to cap that ratio. For example 70/30 split up to a maximum of $50 going to Apple per sale. they are only providing bandwidth and foot-traffic. $50 for every purchase is plenty. Even if the split drops the higher value the item is.
I find it interesting that so many here have criticized the implementation the new more iOS style features as being useless, since they don't work for them.
In fact, I think the interesting thing about these ideas is that they're totally voluntary. If you don't want to use mission control- DON'T. If you don't want to buy apps through the appStore- DON'T. If launchpad seems like a Mickey Mouse way to view your applications- DON'T USE IT!
Keep using your mac the way you are. Buy your software how you want.
I think what Apple might have tweaked onto over the last 4 years since the iPhone came out, is that there is a GREAT MANY people who still feel daunted by the average computer experience. Anyone who finds themselves acting as impromptu tech support for friends and family can attest to this fact. "Where are my files?". "What do you mean it didn't save?". Moreover, the success of the iPad for people who've never used a computer before only further illustrates that we still haven't reached the intuitive and consumer oriented paradigm that probably 80% of people are looking for.
So imagine the benefits for Apple if they can bring a truly accessible OS to market. An OS that services people of DIFFERENT skill levels. For those who want a simple and clean experience, the layer is there to make personal computing a pleasant and less frustrating one, but if you're in a pro oriented field, or have the depth of knowledge and want to dig deeper, the more traditional paradigm is there. This could mean a HUGE opportunity for Apple to seize market-share from a group that's looking for a decidedly non-techie computing experience.
it's very much a parallel to the comments I see about the Air. People in various groups decrying the machines deficiencies- when they're not deficiencies! It's called specialization! As a pro editor, the Air ain't for me. But I can certainly imagine a group looking for an ultralight portable that's NOT a netbook; with a nice display and full size keyboard. It's not for 3D animation. It's not for a video pro like myself. It's probably not the world's best gaming machine. It is what it is, and if what it is ain't for you, that's not the Air's problem, and it shouldn't be yours!
Concerning the Mac App Store, I don't get how the 70/30 split will work. If a games company sells a $50 game, are they going to give Apple $15 for every sale? I think what's going to happen is that they fill the Mac Store with free demos and get people to buy the full app direct from their site and keep the whole amount. Can you imagine Adobe giving away $600 for a CS Suite sale or Autodesk?
They may be giving up 30% of revenue at the point of sale, but think of all the things they're saving on: packaging, shipping, advertising. When you buy a product in the store, do you really think that the company that made it is getting 100% of that retail price?
As to your second point- let's be clear, you're not going to see apps like CS Suite, Final Cut Studio or 3D Studio Max on the appStore. Inherently, these expensive software packages are LARGE installs containing gigs of data, that would be impractical to download electronically. So the point is sort of moot.
The proverbial "you" that is.
...
it's very much a parallel to the comments I see about the Air. People in various groups decrying the machines deficiencies- when they're not deficiencies! It's called specialization! As a pro editor, the Air ain't for me. But I can certainly imagine a group looking for an ultralight portable that's NOT a netbook; with a nice display and full size keyboard. It's not for 3D animation. It's not for a video pro like myself. It's probably not the world's best gaming machine. It is what it is, and if what it is ain't for you, that's not the Air's problem, and it shouldn't be yours!
Very well said! I'm thinking the same thing here. I don't have any use for a Mac Pro, but I don't go to the Mac Pro News and trash the product. I just don't buy it!
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/
This site is frequently ignored for days or weeks at a time, whereas MacUpdate provides daily releases of information regarding new additions to the plethora of software developed or improved upon for Apple Macs.
Doesn't provide much confidence in the reliability of today's proposed AppStore.
However, the thing is, Apple can make Mac OS X more iPad-like and still keep it completely open. Just as they have a completely self sufficient graphical interface sitting on top an underlying POSIX Unix system. Having an optional higher-level GUI for users coming from iOS devices doesn't have to take away anything from current users.
The alarmist reactions coming from some people is completely unfounded and furthermore a bit naive. The Mac platform has always been and always will be an open development platform. iOS platform is an end user, consumer platform and as such doesn't need to be completely open to all things.
I have to agree. Mission Control looks very poorly conceived and a right awful mess to navigate. Also, did anyone else catch the presenter's trouble with the multi-touch mouse? I think they're going to get a lot of negative feedback on this release.
They might change it.
Wow, you predicted that Apple would make Mac OS X look and act like their cash cow. Congrats, you're a genius.
I'm not trying to say I'm a genius or get a pat on the back, smart-ass. What I'm saying is I correctly predicted the change from the zoom-window button to a fullscreen button. Whether that offends you or not doesn't matter, it's true. I said I wanted such a feature because I've seen many a novice user get confused by the zoom button. Apple are all about ease-of-use, usually, that's why they did it. They saw the light, and not just to please ex-windows users, but all users - bar those who detest change.
That was a good call be my on the zoom-window button becoming a fullscreen button.
I have to say though, I'm not happy with Mission Control. I find it very confusing compared to the way the Mac is now. I know this is beta software, but I think they need to do some rethinking/re-engineering on that. It's sort of a mess in my opinion. I do however like the Launchpad, but I think the dock should be hidden when Launchpad is open, with arrow-buttons for going through app pages - in addition to those gestures. I don't have a magic-trackpad, and I never will.
Maybe the Hide Dock function could include such and option.
OS-X has never had a "maximise" button or any button that acts as a maximise button.
Ireland should have bet money because the zoom button behaviour has been around since before OS-X and not only hasn't changed, but has weathered an almost constant storm of criticism from switchers who think it should behave like a maxmise button.
The fact that they are (apparently) ditching the zoom button is epic actually.
Contrary to common opinion on these forums (I don't mean yours), I don't say this stuff to get a pat on the back. I'm grateful it's noticed - but that's not the reason I bring it up. I say it because I mean it, and I think you do to.
Yes the mouse thing was awkward. Kind of reminds me of trying to load groceries into your car while the shopping cart keeps trying roll away. The mouse is made to move but those types of gestures need to have something like an actual track pad otherwise, when you make a swipe, you move the mouse instead.
I saw the poor guy was shaking like a leaf and probably sweating profusely too which wasn't helping the track pad.
Interesting. When did you predict this?
Check out my signature for the last week. It's still the same.
Personally, I have zero interest in a touch screen Mac. I think it would be a terrible idea unless the form factor is completely revamped to make more ergonomic sense.
They could make a large iPad though.
Maybe the Hide Dock function could include such and option.
No. It should auto-hide when viewing the iPad-style home screen. With perhaps text reading: "press esc key to exit". And arrows for viewing other home screens. It's nice to have gestures, but no one wants to be forced to use them.
They could make a large iPad though.
How would you hold it?