Oh my God, Oh My God, this earth shattering!!! Revolutionary and Magical. God, - MS is toast and finished because we are going to have super elegant and delicious scroll bars and theirs are crappy and clunky...
I bet Ballmer is throwing chairs knowing Steve has reinvented the scroll bar!! He is a "looser"..
What do ya'no? I look at my habits of operating Mac machines since I'd got Madgies for them; and I indeed see I don't need scroll bars anymore... Interesting unnoticed move.
There will most likely be a checkbox in the Appearance preference pane that will allow the old guard to enable the old-style scroll bars as well. Just because the new style is being demonstrated, doesn't mean they've done away with the old.
Except that it isn't like Apple at all to have this kind of options available to users. When they change something, they do and there's no going back unless you hack your way around it or downgrade your OS.
Except that it isn't like Apple at all to have this kind of options available to users. When they change something, they do and there's no going back unless you hack your way around it or downgrade your OS.
Or they hide the pref in a plist somewhere and you can use plist editor to change it.
I think this shows Apple moving from the super simple - and mocked for years for having - single button mouse to EXPECTING a multitouch surface. That's a significant shift.
Now, will we ever get windows that resize from more than the lower right corner? That is one of the biggest shortcomings I have with the current UI.
Interesting to see the different ways people work with their computers, and how we use something as mundane as scroll bars.
One point not brought up is large documents. 'flick' on your trackpad to scroll is nice, until you try to flick through an 800 page document... That's when you need to grab your scrollbar thumbnail and drag your way down. Now I can't even see the scrollbar until I start scrolling? You've now added keystrokes to my workflow.
Nobody had issues with this method on the iPhone or iPad, so there's no reason for it to be in issue on the Mac.
Why does my new Mac have to look and operate like my phone? That's plain nuts. My TV doesn't act like my refrigerator, although both are household appliances.
There doesn't need to be a rush to blend telephone OS with computer OS. iOS is just too limited in scope, and too lacking in power. Moving navigation elements from some puny device to a huge screen desktop is poor judgment.
It's exactly the refresh arrow on the new Safari. Just because iPhone has it that way, why does the Mac have to be forced to become a phone OS? This is remarkably stupid.
Plus, Mission Control looks like garbage. Then again, I hate stacks & grids, they slow me down.
How about just fixing the OS? Maybe when I go to empty the Trash, it won't tell me that some file is still in use, even when it's not and hasn't been for days. Finder doesn't know. Advanced OS my ass.
Apple, stop mucking with stuff just for the sake of mucking with it.
Can't you just stop calling Mac OS X Lion 10.7 There is absolutely no reference of this versioning anywhere. Jobs only mentioned it was the 8th major release but never said it was 10.7
Why does my new Mac have to look and operate like my phone? That's plain nuts. My TV doesn't act like my refrigerator, although both are household appliances.
There doesn't need to be a rush to blend telephone OS with computer OS. iOS is just too limited in scope, and too lacking in power. Moving navigation elements from some puny device to a huge screen desktop is poor judgment.
It's exactly the refresh arrow on the new Safari. Just because iPhone has it that way, why does the Mac have to be forced to become a phone OS? This is remarkably stupid.
Plus, Mission Control looks like garbage. Then again, I hate stacks & grids, they slow me down.
How about just fixing the OS? Maybe when I go to empty the Trash, it won't tell me that some file is still in use, even when it's not and hasn't been for days. Finder doesn't know. Advanced OS my ass.
Apple, stop mucking with stuff just for the sake of mucking with it.
What are you a troll on Ballmer's payroll? Lion is going to have "the sex", be "elegant", and "look delicious".
Steve loves us and wants everything to work alike. Go run off and use your crappy and clunky Windows and enjoy the viruses and BSOD that all Windows users get everyday...
Apple continues down a road I'm not comfortable with. Once a true model for interface consistency, they literally threw the book away and decided that anything goes. Personally, I still want my title bars back. Losing the scroll bars is yet another design decision that I think is too "Apple". You can take the minimalist approach too far. As another reader noted earlier, you soon end up with the buttonless iPod shuffle . While the public hated it, that device probably best epitomizes Steve's vision.
The only thing that Apple needs to do to the scroll bars is to replace that blue Aqua button with something gray. Otherwise, it's fine as is.
What are you a troll on Ballmer's payroll? Lion is going to have "the sex", be "elegant", and "look delicious".
Steve loves us and wants everything to work alike. Go run off and use your crappy and clunky Windows and enjoy the viruses and BSOD that all Windows users get everyday...
I'm stickin with Steve!! Wooo Hoooo
Please grow up and stop the name calling. What are you , 10 years old?
My guess is they're hiding the scrollbars of inactive windows which seems like a pretty good move to reduce UI clutter. Being a progressive myself I do not fear change so I'm excited to see how this works out.
As some have commented, there needs to be an indication of your progress in long documents. This is currently the main job of the scroll bar as most users likely use other methods (gestures, wheels, etc.) to get through the document.
As a compromise, I suggest adding a small element* (a dot or a diamond, etc.) when the scroll bar is in "disappear" mode. This could be optional, and would serve to discretely tell the user where they are in a document or interface window.
One thing you all are forgetting is that when you do start scrolling with your touch pad/scroll wheel, the scroll bar with proportional content indication then appears. You can see this during the demo iPhoto demo. Or in this pic posted in the article:
So you really can't whine about not knowing how big the document is, because as soon as you start scrolling you can see how much. Exactly the same way it works on your iPad and iPhone. And how do you know without the trivial movement of an index finger that there's more stuff to scroll to? Cuz the content is likely to be chopped off at the bottom!
I've noticed the months of using my iPad that the static appearance of OS X's scroll bars has become annoying. This is especially true in Safari, where those pixels that make up the width of the bar make the content area slightly narrower, causing the page to reflow sometimes when it's loading a long page.
"as part of Lion do not present scroll bars until the user begins scrolling"
what if my mouse doesn't have a scroll button and I'm not using a magic mouse?
Can't believe they're adding yet another interface style to the dozen odd styles already present in OS X. What a complete bastardization of the product.
What a great revolutionary new interface! But I'm sure I'll still get the stop watch when waiting for some apps...
Comments
Yawn.
3 pages of link bait to say...
Lion is going to have a different looking UI to Snow leopard.
Well colour me shocked.
Now give me back the last 4 mins of my life.
There has got to be something better to blog about??
So why waste more time posting? Moaner!
a scrollbar?! whoa... magic!
Oh my God, Oh My God, this earth shattering!!! Revolutionary and Magical. God, - MS is toast and finished because we are going to have super elegant and delicious scroll bars and theirs are crappy and clunky...
I bet Ballmer is throwing chairs knowing Steve has reinvented the scroll bar!! He is a "looser"..
What do ya'no? I look at my habits of operating Mac machines since I'd got Madgies for them; and I indeed see I don't need scroll bars anymore... Interesting unnoticed move.
How do they work?
What, f*cking babies?
I wonder if scrollbars are being taken away so that in a few years time they can be brought back and we will all gasp at their awesomeness
This sounds about right.
There will most likely be a checkbox in the Appearance preference pane that will allow the old guard to enable the old-style scroll bars as well. Just because the new style is being demonstrated, doesn't mean they've done away with the old.
Except that it isn't like Apple at all to have this kind of options available to users. When they change something, they do and there's no going back unless you hack your way around it or downgrade your OS.
Except that it isn't like Apple at all to have this kind of options available to users. When they change something, they do and there's no going back unless you hack your way around it or downgrade your OS.
Or they hide the pref in a plist somewhere and you can use plist editor to change it.
I think this shows Apple moving from the super simple - and mocked for years for having - single button mouse to EXPECTING a multitouch surface. That's a significant shift.
Now, will we ever get windows that resize from more than the lower right corner? That is one of the biggest shortcomings I have with the current UI.
- Jasen.
One point not brought up is large documents. 'flick' on your trackpad to scroll is nice, until you try to flick through an 800 page document... That's when you need to grab your scrollbar thumbnail and drag your way down. Now I can't even see the scrollbar until I start scrolling? You've now added keystrokes to my workflow.
Nobody had issues with this method on the iPhone or iPad, so there's no reason for it to be in issue on the Mac.
Why does my new Mac have to look and operate like my phone? That's plain nuts. My TV doesn't act like my refrigerator, although both are household appliances.
There doesn't need to be a rush to blend telephone OS with computer OS. iOS is just too limited in scope, and too lacking in power. Moving navigation elements from some puny device to a huge screen desktop is poor judgment.
It's exactly the refresh arrow on the new Safari. Just because iPhone has it that way, why does the Mac have to be forced to become a phone OS? This is remarkably stupid.
Plus, Mission Control looks like garbage. Then again, I hate stacks & grids, they slow me down.
How about just fixing the OS? Maybe when I go to empty the Trash, it won't tell me that some file is still in use, even when it's not and hasn't been for days. Finder doesn't know. Advanced OS my ass.
Apple, stop mucking with stuff just for the sake of mucking with it.
Yawn.
3 pages of link bait to say...
Lion is going to have a different looking UI to Snow leopard.
Well colour me shocked.
Now give me back the last 4 mins of my life.
There has got to be something better to blog about??
So why exactly did you read this article? What a whiner. As it has been so recently spoken in the news - "man up".
Why does my new Mac have to look and operate like my phone? That's plain nuts. My TV doesn't act like my refrigerator, although both are household appliances.
There doesn't need to be a rush to blend telephone OS with computer OS. iOS is just too limited in scope, and too lacking in power. Moving navigation elements from some puny device to a huge screen desktop is poor judgment.
It's exactly the refresh arrow on the new Safari. Just because iPhone has it that way, why does the Mac have to be forced to become a phone OS? This is remarkably stupid.
Plus, Mission Control looks like garbage. Then again, I hate stacks & grids, they slow me down.
How about just fixing the OS? Maybe when I go to empty the Trash, it won't tell me that some file is still in use, even when it's not and hasn't been for days. Finder doesn't know. Advanced OS my ass.
Apple, stop mucking with stuff just for the sake of mucking with it.
What are you a troll on Ballmer's payroll? Lion is going to have "the sex", be "elegant", and "look delicious".
Steve loves us and wants everything to work alike. Go run off and use your crappy and clunky Windows and enjoy the viruses and BSOD that all Windows users get everyday...
I'm stickin with Steve!! Wooo Hoooo
The only thing that Apple needs to do to the scroll bars is to replace that blue Aqua button with something gray. Otherwise, it's fine as is.
What are you a troll on Ballmer's payroll? Lion is going to have "the sex", be "elegant", and "look delicious".
Steve loves us and wants everything to work alike. Go run off and use your crappy and clunky Windows and enjoy the viruses and BSOD that all Windows users get everyday...
I'm stickin with Steve!! Wooo Hoooo
Please grow up and stop the name calling. What are you , 10 years old?
As a compromise, I suggest adding a small element* (a dot or a diamond, etc.) when the scroll bar is in "disappear" mode. This could be optional, and would serve to discretely tell the user where they are in a document or interface window.
*like this:
So you really can't whine about not knowing how big the document is, because as soon as you start scrolling you can see how much. Exactly the same way it works on your iPad and iPhone. And how do you know without the trivial movement of an index finger that there's more stuff to scroll to? Cuz the content is likely to be chopped off at the bottom!
I've noticed the months of using my iPad that the static appearance of OS X's scroll bars has become annoying. This is especially true in Safari, where those pixels that make up the width of the bar make the content area slightly narrower, causing the page to reflow sometimes when it's loading a long page.
I'm actually looking forward the new scroll bars.
what if my mouse doesn't have a scroll button and I'm not using a magic mouse?
Can't believe they're adding yet another interface style to the dozen odd styles already present in OS X. What a complete bastardization of the product.
What a great revolutionary new interface! But I'm sure I'll still get the stop watch when waiting for some apps...