Me, personally, I have no interest whatsoever in a tablet computer that includes only a cellphone OS. I already have an iPhone, and the limitations frustrate me. When I want to use a real computer on the couch, I sure as hell don't use my iPhone. I use my laptop.
when i want to use a 'real' computer i use my desktop. when i am on the couch or laying in bed i use the ipad.
Please explain to me why you think I have a "desire to see [only?] things that promote Apple products"?
Because you want to ignore opposing viewpoints. You want to ban a user that posts data from an HP website. You'd prefer not to see the comparison. If it doesn't fit your narrative, you want it gone. At least that's the way it seems to me. I do apologize if I've mischaracterized your intent.
So the iPad can work with Verizon and Sprint and T-Mobile? Didn't know that. Thanks for the update.
It can work with T-Mobile out of the box, yes (it's not locked to ATT like the US iPhone). It can work with Verizon and Sprint with a MiFi-style router you toss in your bag or keep in your pocket. I use a 3G router with my iPod Touch on a daily basis, and I can tell you that it works great.
Interesting how the fans on either side of this debate are taking this so seriously and are unwilling to debate reasonably.
Some questions to throw out there that defend this HP tablet. Haven't there been tablets that have run Windows products before(I am asking the question because I don't know)? If so, why haven't these tablets sold well previously and what is different about this tablet that would make it sell better than previous models, if they truly did exist?
Would you buy this tablet(especially prior to knowing what the battery life is like)? If not, why haven't you bought previous versions of the tablet? Could it have had something to do with the fact the the systems were not optimized for a tablet like device or that it didn't fill a need?
My own take on what I am seeing is that HP is trying to capitalize on the iPad tablet craze that Apple has created. From what I have seen about the device, though, I don't see that it includes many of the things that have made the Apple iPad successful. Apple made the iPad, hardware AND software specific to the tablet and made it useful to the consumer. That is why it has sold so well in such a short period of time. I just don't see this with this tablet but am open to any reasonable arguments. If HP is only going to market this to businesses whose IT is wedded to MSFT, then if that market exists, then they could have some success with this tablet but I think it will be rather limited. But that is just my opinion on this. The tale will be in the sales figures once this goes on sale. Anyone see a date as to when this goes on sale?
These are Netbook specs, people. It's not going to be anywhere NEAR as responsive as the iPad, when doing just about anything, especially browsing. So... more expensive, less responsive, lower resolution screen...
The only thing that's attractive about this is the Wacom stylus, which could make it a great tool for illustrators, if Photoshop is responsive enough (has yet to be seen that it is).
As a buisnes owner, and you know what your talking about, will this run my office software? It's a simple question, and I'm sure you have a lot of answers, but I just need a yes or no. You're the guys that know what's up with this stuff. My guys are using excell on their iPad. Should I buy more of them, or this? It's windows, so it should work with everything else I have right?
This HP slate is running Window 7, therefore any apps that are compatible with Win 7 should run on the device. There are some things you have to keep in mind. Some software has certain hardware requirements of its own. Some programs require certain processor speeds or graphics capability. This device is not going to successfully run many, many games with 3D requirements, or anything that has high processing demands (I would not try running AutoCad on it for example). It should run MS Office fine. I don't know how usable Excel spreadsheets would be on a 600 pixel screen however...
I don't see this appealing to many people. Stylus? Very small keyboard. Atom processor. For not a whole lot more you could get one of the new Air's if you need to run things like Photoshop. Not sure who this is aimed at and if they will want it.
MacOS X wasn't designed to be accessed via your finger either. But Apple was able to rewrite what is essentially the Finder to be finger accessible for the iPhone. Why do you doubt that Microsoft can't also put a finger-based interface in front of Windows?
But that's just the point. Microsoft HASN'T put together a finger-based interface. HP has written their own UI extensions to kludge together a touch interface on top of Windows. So HP apparently had to come up with their own way of doing things like dealing with somebody trying to tap on the minimize/maximize/close buttons in the title bar of a window, or to right-click to bring up a context menu.
Microsoft should have learned from Apple and created a whole new UI paradigm for tablet devices rather than leaving it up to third party vendors. The OS should have been redesigned so that you don't have things like right-click context menus, drop down menus, etc. and applications should be redesigned so that they don't require those sorts of UI components. They shouldn't leave that sort of thing up to the hardware vendors.
The great thing about the iPhone, iPod, and iPad, is the consistency of the UI. Since Microsoft is essentially leaving it up to third party vendors to kludge together touch-UI's on top of Windows then it's just going to fragment the Windows touch market. HP tablets with HP's idea of a touch interface will probably be different from IBM's which will be different from Dell's, etc.
So I'm supposed to add another contraption to the cart to make my device work? All for the glory of having a revolutionary iPad? That sounds insane to me. How about you? Before you answer, turn off the RDF and put down the Apple pie and think for a minute.
Are you gettin' it?
Jesus. You were the one who suggested adding a USB wireless-to-WiFi modem. How is a MiFi you drop in your pocket (I hang mine around my neck) "another contraption" but a USB sitck that you have to leave sticking out of the side of the thing, making the modem and the USB port both susceptible to breakage, not "another contraption"!?
MacOS X wasn't designed to be accessed via your finger either. But Apple was able to rewrite what is essentially the Finder to be finger accessible for the iPhone. Why do you doubt that Microsoft can't also put a finger-based interface in front of Windows?
The point is they haven't. It's been almost a year since the iPad was announced and AFAIK all these are running Windows 7 as it is? Where's the finger accessibility? Serious question here to MS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh
So I'm supposed to add another contraption to the cart to make my device work? All for the glory of having a revolutionary iPad? That sounds insane to me. How about you? Before you answer, turn off the RDF and put down the Apple pie and think for a minute.
Are you gettin' it?
Dude, the 3G in the iPad is unlocked and based on the international standard. Apple makes global products now right off the bat. Yes, down the line a CDMA+everything world chip would be nice. Point is, if you are in the US, MiFi is a workaround but I can't say Apple or ATT is being evil here. Anyone that needs intense 3G usage for long periods of time would subscribe to ATT, anyone that wants casual 3G usage has Verizon, T-mobile as another poster mentioned. There's always WiFi. These are better options than so many netbooks and laptops that don't have any 3G and you have to tether anyway, draining precious phone battery or using a USB 3G modem that drains laptop battery.
Yes, you could get a USB 3G modem stick for the Slate (assuming it works), in which case the user might as well go with a laptop and the 3G stick, why are they bothering with tablets anyway? A tablet with a USB 3G stick doesn't make much usability sense as a tablet with a wireless MiFi thingy in your pocket.
1) How are you basing your numbers of Mac OS X? The total files on a Restore Disc, a retail copy of SL, a fresh install or what your drive is current using? Are you using Base-2 or Base-10 (Note: That Apple moved to Base-10 for the representation in user space for SL)?
2) Note that the SL and iLife installers are contained on an 8GB USB stick for the new MBAs.
3) Just to make sure I?ve covered all the bases, if we?re comparing the HP Slate to the iPad to see which has more space for the user to consume we should use iOS for the iPad in a comparison..
Yes, good detail points...
1. The installed OS on the HD, not the restore disc. Base 10, clean full install of 10.6 + updates.
2. I know. Install files are also compressed to fit on the stick - they expanded upon install.
3. True. Not comparing to iPad - comparing Win 7 to MacOS X 10.6. If you want to compare to iOS, iOS takes up far less space than OS X, due in large part to leaving out all the stuff the iPad doesn't need.
2. characterized by ineptness or lack of skill, competence, effectiveness, imagination, or interest; pitiful: Our team played a dismal game.
3. Obsolete .
a. disastrous; calamitous.
b. unlucky; sinister.
Tried using Windows on a touch-screen, many, many times. It's a dismal user experience. Maybe that's why the past 10 years of Windows touch-screen devices have been such a "rousing success"?
Dude, the 3G in the iPad is unlocked and based on the international standard. Apple makes global products now right off the bat. Yes, down the line a CDMA+everything world chip would be nice.
As an aside, based on all the info I?ve read a true ?world mode? setup (quadband GSM radios, the current, pentaband radios in the iPhone 4, plus another radio for T-Mobile USA?s 1700MHz spectrum, and CDMA/CDMA2000 radios*) would be possible in an iPad based on the current dimensions it offers.
This does not seem possible in an iPhone and I can?t find a single cellphone that offers that kind of coverage. The ones on Verizon that are listed as ?world mode? are enfeebled in N. America to only allow GSM ?2G? (because they can?t get around this) and no UMTS ?3G?, typically with only one band for Europe or some other region of the world that uses 3GSM technology. Not exactly an open ?world mode? phone like the one people envision and they are much larger with worse battery life due to the size of the chips even though they have less total bands than the current iPhone.
I love how Windows 7 is not listed as an advantage.
BTW 1080p playback is great but where are they going to get the content? Even illegally it takes hell a long time to download. Let alone the battery drain when playing it back. Not all 1080p video file formats will be hardware accelerated.
I don't get this... When Apple developed the iPad, they positioned it as an entertainment device, meant more for content consumption as opposed to full productivity. The HP Slate appears to be more of a tablet netbook with Windows 7, which seems like it's aimed towards people who want more productivity from a tablet. What I don't understand is: if you wanted Windows 7 on something really portable, why you wouldn't get a netbook instead? The lack of a physical keyboard highly reduces the productivity of a tablet, and the underpowered netbook specs and limited flash memory don't go well with a full Windows 7. Sure, the screen will be nicer for when you do want to want watch videos and whatnot, but is it worth it at twice the price of a netbook?
Comments
Me, personally, I have no interest whatsoever in a tablet computer that includes only a cellphone OS. I already have an iPhone, and the limitations frustrate me. When I want to use a real computer on the couch, I sure as hell don't use my iPhone. I use my laptop.
when i want to use a 'real' computer i use my desktop. when i am on the couch or laying in bed i use the ipad.
doesn't HP own webos? it is very nice. why not use it instead of windows???
Because HP is no Apple.
OK. I'll take your advice.
Please explain to me why you think I have a "desire to see [only?] things that promote Apple products"?
Because you want to ignore opposing viewpoints. You want to ban a user that posts data from an HP website. You'd prefer not to see the comparison. If it doesn't fit your narrative, you want it gone. At least that's the way it seems to me. I do apologize if I've mischaracterized your intent.
Because HP is no Apple.
I would hope the decision would go deeper than that. Buy the product with the Apple logo no matter what the compeition may have. That's weak.
So the iPad can work with Verizon and Sprint and T-Mobile? Didn't know that. Thanks for the update.
It can work with T-Mobile out of the box, yes (it's not locked to ATT like the US iPhone). It can work with Verizon and Sprint with a MiFi-style router you toss in your bag or keep in your pocket. I use a 3G router with my iPod Touch on a daily basis, and I can tell you that it works great.
You really know very little, don't you?
Interesting how the fans on either side of this debate are taking this so seriously and are unwilling to debate reasonably.
Some questions to throw out there that defend this HP tablet. Haven't there been tablets that have run Windows products before(I am asking the question because I don't know)? If so, why haven't these tablets sold well previously and what is different about this tablet that would make it sell better than previous models, if they truly did exist?
Would you buy this tablet(especially prior to knowing what the battery life is like)? If not, why haven't you bought previous versions of the tablet? Could it have had something to do with the fact the the systems were not optimized for a tablet like device or that it didn't fill a need?
My own take on what I am seeing is that HP is trying to capitalize on the iPad tablet craze that Apple has created. From what I have seen about the device, though, I don't see that it includes many of the things that have made the Apple iPad successful. Apple made the iPad, hardware AND software specific to the tablet and made it useful to the consumer. That is why it has sold so well in such a short period of time. I just don't see this with this tablet but am open to any reasonable arguments. If HP is only going to market this to businesses whose IT is wedded to MSFT, then if that market exists, then they could have some success with this tablet but I think it will be rather limited. But that is just my opinion on this. The tale will be in the sales figures once this goes on sale. Anyone see a date as to when this goes on sale?
Neal
The only thing that's attractive about this is the Wacom stylus, which could make it a great tool for illustrators, if Photoshop is responsive enough (has yet to be seen that it is).
Here's a full comparison prepared by HP:
the ram and processor comparison really don't mean much since they don't run the same software
a good attempt at pointing out a strength which may or may not be there (we all know windows though...)
As a buisnes owner, and you know what your talking about, will this run my office software? It's a simple question, and I'm sure you have a lot of answers, but I just need a yes or no. You're the guys that know what's up with this stuff. My guys are using excell on their iPad. Should I buy more of them, or this? It's windows, so it should work with everything else I have right?
This HP slate is running Window 7, therefore any apps that are compatible with Win 7 should run on the device. There are some things you have to keep in mind. Some software has certain hardware requirements of its own. Some programs require certain processor speeds or graphics capability. This device is not going to successfully run many, many games with 3D requirements, or anything that has high processing demands (I would not try running AutoCad on it for example). It should run MS Office fine. I don't know how usable Excel spreadsheets would be on a 600 pixel screen however...
when i want to use a 'real' computer i use my desktop. when i am on the couch or laying in bed i use the ipad.
I used to do that. Now I use the iPhone only when out of the house or in bed. And that's only when I leave the laptop in the other room.
If I had a tablet that was a "real" computer, I likely would use it. But having a bigger screen running a cellphone OS is not what I am looking for.
MacOS X wasn't designed to be accessed via your finger either. But Apple was able to rewrite what is essentially the Finder to be finger accessible for the iPhone. Why do you doubt that Microsoft can't also put a finger-based interface in front of Windows?
But that's just the point. Microsoft HASN'T put together a finger-based interface. HP has written their own UI extensions to kludge together a touch interface on top of Windows. So HP apparently had to come up with their own way of doing things like dealing with somebody trying to tap on the minimize/maximize/close buttons in the title bar of a window, or to right-click to bring up a context menu.
Microsoft should have learned from Apple and created a whole new UI paradigm for tablet devices rather than leaving it up to third party vendors. The OS should have been redesigned so that you don't have things like right-click context menus, drop down menus, etc. and applications should be redesigned so that they don't require those sorts of UI components. They shouldn't leave that sort of thing up to the hardware vendors.
The great thing about the iPhone, iPod, and iPad, is the consistency of the UI. Since Microsoft is essentially leaving it up to third party vendors to kludge together touch-UI's on top of Windows then it's just going to fragment the Windows touch market. HP tablets with HP's idea of a touch interface will probably be different from IBM's which will be different from Dell's, etc.
So I'm supposed to add another contraption to the cart to make my device work? All for the glory of having a revolutionary iPad? That sounds insane to me. How about you? Before you answer, turn off the RDF and put down the Apple pie and think for a minute.
Are you gettin' it?
Jesus. You were the one who suggested adding a USB wireless-to-WiFi modem. How is a MiFi you drop in your pocket (I hang mine around my neck) "another contraption" but a USB sitck that you have to leave sticking out of the side of the thing, making the modem and the USB port both susceptible to breakage, not "another contraption"!?
MacOS X wasn't designed to be accessed via your finger either. But Apple was able to rewrite what is essentially the Finder to be finger accessible for the iPhone. Why do you doubt that Microsoft can't also put a finger-based interface in front of Windows?
The point is they haven't. It's been almost a year since the iPad was announced and AFAIK all these are running Windows 7 as it is? Where's the finger accessibility? Serious question here to MS.
So I'm supposed to add another contraption to the cart to make my device work? All for the glory of having a revolutionary iPad? That sounds insane to me. How about you? Before you answer, turn off the RDF and put down the Apple pie and think for a minute.
Are you gettin' it?
Dude, the 3G in the iPad is unlocked and based on the international standard. Apple makes global products now right off the bat. Yes, down the line a CDMA+everything world chip would be nice. Point is, if you are in the US, MiFi is a workaround but I can't say Apple or ATT is being evil here. Anyone that needs intense 3G usage for long periods of time would subscribe to ATT, anyone that wants casual 3G usage has Verizon, T-mobile as another poster mentioned. There's always WiFi. These are better options than so many netbooks and laptops that don't have any 3G and you have to tether anyway, draining precious phone battery or using a USB 3G modem that drains laptop battery.
Yes, you could get a USB 3G modem stick for the Slate (assuming it works), in which case the user might as well go with a laptop and the 3G stick, why are they bothering with tablets anyway? A tablet with a USB 3G stick doesn't make much usability sense as a tablet with a wireless MiFi thingy in your pocket.
1) How are you basing your numbers of Mac OS X? The total files on a Restore Disc, a retail copy of SL, a fresh install or what your drive is current using? Are you using Base-2 or Base-10 (Note: That Apple moved to Base-10 for the representation in user space for SL)?
2) Note that the SL and iLife installers are contained on an 8GB USB stick for the new MBAs.
3) Just to make sure I?ve covered all the bases, if we?re comparing the HP Slate to the iPad to see which has more space for the user to consume we should use iOS for the iPad in a comparison..
Yes, good detail points...
1. The installed OS on the HD, not the restore disc. Base 10, clean full install of 10.6 + updates.
2. I know. Install files are also compressed to fit on the stick - they expanded upon install.
3. True. Not comparing to iPad - comparing Win 7 to MacOS X 10.6. If you want to compare to iOS, iOS takes up far less space than OS X, due in large part to leaving out all the stuff the iPad doesn't need.
Please define "dismal".
dis·mal
[diz-muhl]
?adjective
1. causing gloom or dejection; gloomy; dreary; cheerless; melancholy: dismal weather.
2. characterized by ineptness or lack of skill, competence, effectiveness, imagination, or interest; pitiful: Our team played a dismal game.
3. Obsolete .
a. disastrous; calamitous.
b. unlucky; sinister.
Tried using Windows on a touch-screen, many, many times. It's a dismal user experience. Maybe that's why the past 10 years of Windows touch-screen devices have been such a "rousing success"?
Dude, the 3G in the iPad is unlocked and based on the international standard. Apple makes global products now right off the bat. Yes, down the line a CDMA+everything world chip would be nice.
As an aside, based on all the info I?ve read a true ?world mode? setup (quadband GSM radios, the current, pentaband radios in the iPhone 4, plus another radio for T-Mobile USA?s 1700MHz spectrum, and CDMA/CDMA2000 radios*) would be possible in an iPad based on the current dimensions it offers.
This does not seem possible in an iPhone and I can?t find a single cellphone that offers that kind of coverage. The ones on Verizon that are listed as ?world mode? are enfeebled in N. America to only allow GSM ?2G? (because they can?t get around this) and no UMTS ?3G?, typically with only one band for Europe or some other region of the world that uses 3GSM technology. Not exactly an open ?world mode? phone like the one people envision and they are much larger with worse battery life due to the size of the chips even though they have less total bands than the current iPhone.
* I purposely left LTE out for this discussion.
Here's a full comparison prepared by HP:
I love how Windows 7 is not listed as an advantage.
BTW 1080p playback is great but where are they going to get the content? Even illegally it takes hell a long time to download. Let alone the battery drain when playing it back. Not all 1080p video file formats will be hardware accelerated.
2. I know. Install files are also compressed to fit on the stick - they expanded upon install..
This I?m aware, but even on the Restore Disc, IIRC, before being installed they take more than 8GB. The new iLife 11 DMG is about 3GB.