Apple: Not preinstalling Flash on Macs ensures users have latest version

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Apple has issued an official comment on the lack of preinstalled Adobe Flash on the newly released MacBook Air and all future Macs, saying the change was done to ensure that users always have the latest version of Flash by downloading directly from Adobe.



Earlier this week, when it was discovered the new MacBook Air models ship without Flash installed, some assumed the change was made because of the ongoing rivalry between Adobe and Apple. But Apple spokesman Bill Evans gave Engadget an official comment on Friday saying otherwise.



"We're happy to continue to support Flash on the Mac, and the best way for users to always have the most up to date and secure version is to download it directly from Adobe," Evans reportedly said.



He also went on to say that all Macs in the future will not have Adobe Flash preinstalled, though it was said that some hardware already in the channels may come with Flash.



Apple and Adobe have been at odds in 2010, in a feud that gained considerable steam after Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs published an open letter criticizing Flash as old technology that is unfit for the modern era of mobile computers. Apple does not allow Flash onto its iOS-powered devices, including the iPhone and iPad.



Jobs also revealed that Flash is the number one reason for crashes on the Mac platform. For its part, Adobe fired back and said that any crashes of Flash in Mac OS X are not related to its software, but are instead the fault of Apple's operating system.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 135
    There you go! No need to freak out.
  • Reply 2 of 135
    Good explanation. This will force people to get the latest version of Adobe Flash, if they really want Flash support, and not a legacy version that is outdated that came pre-installed with the computer.



    I believe this is what Apple will be doing with future versions of Java also. Get the latest version from Oracle (Java developer) instead of relying on an older version from Apple...
  • Reply 3 of 135
    In other news, Steve Jobs, in a conference call, says that Windows is "open".



    In other words, welcome to the new world of Apple double-speak. It's new for Apple to deliberately misdirect the public like this. This process began when, on the day that Facetime was announced, Steve said he'd make it open-source the following day. It still isn't open-source. Here with Flash, how many people won't bother to download the software after they get their Mac? Even if it's 10% of customers, that's still an advantage for HTML5.



    Don't trust everything Apple says, anymore, until they do it. The "reality distortion field" is back, and taken to another level.
  • Reply 4 of 135
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikemikeb View Post


    In other news, Steve Jobs, in a conference call, says that Windows is "open".



    In other words, welcome to the new world of Apple double-speak. It's new for Apple to deliberately misdirect the public like this. This process began when, on the day that Facetime was announced, Steve said he'd make it open-source the following day. It still isn't open-source. Here with Flash, how many people won't bother to download the software after they get their Mac? Even if it's 10% of customers, that's still an advantage for HTML5.



    Don't trust everything Apple says, anymore, until they do it. The "reality distortion field" is back, and taken to another level.



    Jobs said they would go to an open standards body the next day. He did not say that the standards committee would have it reviewed, ratified, and have it delivered on a milled aluminium platter to you the next day.



    As for HTML5 being an advantage, it?s its own advantage for many aspects of modern computing. Heck, there are modern OSes that are built using it and I can?t say that about Adobe Flash. Also, Adobe themselves have removed their blinders by actually announcing an HTMl5 video widget.
  • Reply 5 of 135
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post


    There you go! No need to freak out.



    puullleezzzzeeeeee



    How many will never ever bother to down load flash .



    I am happy at the new html 5 coming forth to take over the whole game.





    9
  • Reply 6 of 135
    diddydiddy Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Jobs said they would go to an open standards body the next day. He did not say that the standards committee would have it reviewed, ratified, and have it delivered on a milled aluminum platter to you the next day.



    I don't even think he said that it was going to be the next day - if memory serves he said in the coming days. Doesn't change much, standards bodies can be real slow.
  • Reply 7 of 135
    djintxdjintx Posts: 454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikemikeb View Post


    In other news, Steve Jobs, in a conference call, says that Windows is "open".



    In other words, welcome to the new world of Apple double-speak. It's new for Apple to deliberately misdirect the public like this. This process began when, on the day that Facetime was announced, Steve said he'd make it open-source the following day. It still isn't open-source. Here with Flash, how many people won't bother to download the software after they get their Mac? Even if it's 10% of customers, that's still an advantage for HTML5.



    Don't trust everything Apple says, anymore, until they do it. The "reality distortion field" is back, and taken to another level.



    Whether or not Apple is doing this partially as a competition thing really doesn't matter. What matters most to them is that #1, they believe flash is dying out, which is true. Why should they try to give it life support? And #2, if they bundle it into their OS, then customers expect Apple to support it. They call tech support when something is going wrong, and it goes a little something like this...



    Apple tells them, "I'm sorry, but that is a third party application. You need to call Adobe".



    Customer says, "But I didn't buy it or download it, it came with the computer!"



    Apple says, "Yes that is true, although we just do that as sort of a convenience, but it is not our software." And customer gets upset because they think Apple is not taking responsibility.



    This is something that should have happened a long time ago, but until HTML5, there wasn't an alternative. Now it is feasible to phase this out for a better more modern product in HTML5 which will be built into Safari, and every other browser out there. This will quickly become a non-issue. Most people understand that Flash is going bye bye, and its time that Adobe, and other users out there come to this realization and move into the future.
  • Reply 8 of 135
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    1) So are the same people that complained that Apple shipped Snow Leopard discs with a slightly outdated version of Adobe Flash the ones that are complaining about having to install Adobe Flash manually, like they would have had to do anyway to get the ?safest? version?



    2) If Apple should be forced to include Adobe Flash, then Adobe should be forced to include ClickToFlash.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tods View Post


    Oh, come on. I'm no fan of Flash but the quote from the Apple apparatchik is plain old spin. With that reasoning, why include QuickTime with the MacBook Air? If you really want QuickTime support, you can download the latest version yourself.



    Apple is just as capable of mouthing B.S. as is Microsoft or Google.



    1) QUickTime is an Apple product that they take responsibility for supporting.



    2) QuickTime is part of Mac OS X. You can?t remove it. If you are only referring to the player, then you are really saying that Apple?s included video playback app that is part of Mac OS X shouldn?t be included if a 3rd-party plug-in isn?t included. Doesn?t make much sense.
  • Reply 9 of 135
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,358member
    Makes total sense not to put on stuff that doesn't work right. You never know, there maybe a truly OS X compliant version of Flash and fully 64 bit and same for *Adobe Reader plug in any moment .... (cough cough)



    TIP: For those of you wondering why Safari 5.1 shows 'plug in missing' notice it is because Adobe hasn't updated the Reader plug in to run in 64 bit yet. You have to downgrade Safari to 32 bit to fix this should you need to. This is done in Get Info easily enough either way.
  • Reply 10 of 135
    rnb2rnb2 Posts: 48member
    Given the security issue that Flash has become, I don't find it hard to believe that this is a very pragmatic step from Apple. Why risk shipping a 1-2 revs (or more) old version on hardware, risking a Flash security exploit for a new user, rather than have the user get the latest, most-secure version from Adobe via the very simple download procedure the first time they encounter Flash content that doesn't play?



    Those that are calling this "double-speak" need to have their heads (and biases) examined. Calling the standard QuickTime install equivalent is laughable - you do realize that Apple is responsible for QuickTime, but not Flash, right? Shipping Flash as standard was always a convenience, and given the rampant security issues, it's no longer a convenience that has a significant upside for the user. It takes a few seconds to download and install Flash (and another few to install Click to Flash ), and you're done.
  • Reply 11 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    2) If Apple should be forced to include Adobe Flash, then Adobe should be forced to include ClickToFlash.



    Best idea yet...
  • Reply 12 of 135
    I hear that Macs will be shipped with a blank hard drive and a coupon for the latest version of Mac OS X that can be picked up at any local Apple store (while supplies last).
  • Reply 13 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tods View Post


    Oh, come on. I'm no fan of Flash but the quote from the Apple apparatchik is plain old spin. With that reasoning, why include QuickTime with the MacBook Air? If you really want QuickTime support, you can download the latest version yourself.



    Apple is just as capable of mouthing B.S. as is Microsoft or Google.



    There is a kernel of truth in that (your basic logic, not your conclusion.)

    Software Update would be the best way to keep things up to date.

    They are simply acting on their belief that Flash is not really an essential part of the OS infrastructure.
  • Reply 14 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mikemikeb View Post


    In other news, Steve Jobs, in a conference call, says that Windows is "open".



    In other words, welcome to the new world of Apple double-speak. It's new for Apple to deliberately misdirect the public like this. This process began when, on the day that Facetime was announced, Steve said he'd make it open-source the following day. It still isn't open-source. Here with Flash, how many people won't bother to download the software after they get their Mac? Even if it's 10% of customers, that's still an advantage for HTML5.



    Don't trust everything Apple says, anymore, until they do it. The "reality distortion field" is back, and taken to another level.



    I know this won't help you with your paranoia, but as a statement of fact, please note that all other operating systems are distributed without Flash and it has to be downloaded by the end user. Mac OS X was the exception when it included Flash on the installation DVD and Apple was often criticized for doing it, as the version on the DVD was sometimes out of date.
  • Reply 15 of 135
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tods View Post


    Oh, come on. I'm no fan of Flash but the quote from the Apple apparatchik is plain old spin. With that reasoning, why include QuickTime with the MacBook Air? If you really want QuickTime support, you can download the latest version yourself.



    Apple is just as capable of mouthing B.S. as is Microsoft or Google.



    AGREED! If that is their logic then why install any software? You have to "update" just about everything after a fresh install of Snow Leopard....this is just really lame Apple....
  • Reply 16 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    AGREED! If that is their logic then why install any software? You have to "update" just about everything after a fresh install of Snow Leopard....this is just really lame Apple....



    The difference is that Apple-created software is easily updated thru the Software Update preference pane, with automatic notifications of newer versions, whereas third-party software maintenance is entirely on the users' shoulders.
  • Reply 17 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ...the change was done to ensure that users always have the latest version of Flash



    Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
  • Reply 18 of 135
    Yet nobody's making a big deal on the fact that there are a lot Windows PC that doesn't have Flash preinstalled also.



    Quit being lazy, go to adobe.com, with just a few clicks you can download Flash, stop bitching about it, and move on with your life. It's no big deal.



    If you're old enough to be able to use a computer then you're old enough to feed yourself. You don't need Apple to spoonfeed you or wipe your ass for you or hold your hand when you walk across the street.
  • Reply 19 of 135
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post


    There is a kernel of truth in that (your basic logic, not your conclusion.)

    Software Update would be the best way to keep things up to date.

    They are simply acting on their belief that Flash is not really an essential part of the OS infrastructure.



    If you watch the event fom this week there will be a simple way to install and update apps on Mac OS X 10.6.5 or later. They call it Mac App Store. It's an optional way for developers to reach more customers by making it simpler* to install and keep app updated.



    * Hopefully I will no longer have to explain what a DMG is or walk someone through the download, mounting, installing, unmounting and deleting of a DMG.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by geekdad View Post


    AGREED! If that is their logic then why install any software? You have to "update" just about everything after a fresh install of Snow Leopard....this is just really lame Apple....



    Explain to us why Apple should be responsible for everyone else's software updates. Do jot recall the outrage a year ago at Apple when they shipped Snow Leopard 5 days after Adobe updated a serious security flaw in Flash?
  • Reply 20 of 135
    geekdadgeekdad Posts: 1,131member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryszard View Post


    The difference is that Apple-created software is easily updated thru the Software Update preference pane, with automatic notifications of newer versions, whereas third-party software maintenance is entirely on the users' shoulders.



    You are correct...But I have third party software on my MBP and I get notified when there are software updates from the vendor. It is the same on my Win 7 machines. Firefox is not made by Apple yet i get notified when there are updates AND I get a notice that my FLASH needs to be updated. Apple could very easily do this......
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