This makes total sense since Flash is such a vector for different kinds of attacks on people's machines and Adobe is constantly updating it to try and close off the different holes. Why would Apple always want to have copies of that a couple of versions back on a brand new machine their delivering?
And its easy to download and install from the browser. But, all those cheap ass different PC manufacturers can keep this on their installation platforms without an issue...but the computer company with the highest margins in the consumer sector can't?
There's obviously a little more to this than that. Safari has had serious security issues and will continue to do so (presumably) and Apple won't have problems bundling that (same with the quicktime plugin).
My guess is that here's a little way to stick it to Adobe (not hard, since we need them, but we aren't doing Flash anymore...) and its a support win for Apple since they don't have to support that awful plugin out of the box anymore....so lets do it.
Not a big deal, but watching them deprecate Java the other day without an announced replacement coming (Java is something the corporate world relies on that they are selling Xserve's to and doing that without an announced fallback plan was dumb from a sales perspective) - reminds me of the arrogance (which was a big part of his downfall before) of Jobs once he knows he has the power and can just do what he wants. Not very pretty.
Apple has issued an official comment on the lack of preinstalled Adobe Flash on the newly released MacBook Air and all future Macs, saying the change was done to ensure that users always have the latest version of Flash by downloading directly from Adobe.....
Wow. I can't believe how many people are upset about this completely reasonable action by Apple (although most of the complainers seem to be the usual wing-nuts).
1) This only makes Apple the same as almost every other platform
2) It *will* ensure that people have the latest update of Flash if they want to
3) The new software store is practically *designed* for these kinds of free add-ons and plug-ins.
4) It will make your computer more secure
This will just be like Rosetta, the first time you use a product that needs Flash, a box will come up saying "click here to get it" and it will be downloaded in seconds in the background. It will also automatically notify you of updates and probably auto-install those updates, direct from Adobe on the day they are available..
If anyone can't see how this is a far *better* system than what they have now and that it will be far *better* both for the end users who like Flash, as well as being *better* for Adobe as well, they are complete idiots IMO. Adobe will get greater distribution as well as greater penetration of the latest version and more information on installs. The end user will get a seamless Flash experience after clicking a few buttons.
Even those that hate Flash will be better off because "click to Flash" will probably be in the app store as well and Jobs will be happy because more people will be made aware of the fact that they don't need flash at all in the first place.
Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
And what happens when you reach a Flash-dependent site without having Flash installed? You get a simple prompt/redirect to install it. Same prompt/redirect as you get to update an installed version of Flash. So where's the difference?
If you're old enough to be able to use a computer then you're old enough to feed yourself. You don't need Apple to spoonfeed you or wipe your ass for you or hold your hand when you walk across the street.
Why not? They always did before and the Mac community loved them for it.
Note I said the Mac community. I am referring to the true community, not this forum, which is the Bizzarro Mac community.
If you watch the event fom this week there will be a simple way to install and update apps on Mac OS X 10.6.5 or later. They call it Mac App Store. It's an optional way for developers to reach more customers by making it simpler* to install and keep app updated.
* Hopefully I will no longer have to explain what a DMG is or walk someone through the download, mounting, installing, unmounting and deleting of a DMG.
Explain to us why Apple should be responsible for everyone else's software updates. Do jot recall the outrage a year ago at Apple when they shipped Snow Leopard 5 days after Adobe updated a serious security flaw in Flash?
There is a war of words and willpower going on between Adobe and Apple....Egos are taking over instead of logic. I just did a fresh install of Snow Leopard last night. That lead to a fresh install of Firefox. Firefox prompted me to update my flash. Would that be so hard for Apple to do if they really wanted to? If they were so concerned about their customers not updating to the latest security updates for Adobe Flash then why not prompt their customers to do so?
It would be great customer service and a benefit to their paying customers to ensure their systems security. But it is not about that...Apple has an agenda to eliminate Adobe Flash. That is all well and good...they can do whatever the want. But don't come out and say it is about anything else....just be upfront about it! :-)
You don't bitch about Silverlight not being preinstalled.
You don't bitch about Perian not being installed.
All these other things that might be needed to get the "full" web experience and you're whining because Apple decided to stop shipping Adobe Flash with OS X (just as all other operating systems)!
Definitely just a bunch of paranoid Apple-hating morons with nothing better to do.
It'l be nice not having to delete all those Flash plug-ins off my system from now on.
Oh, come on. I'm no fan of Flash but the quote from the Apple apparatchik is plain old spin. With that reasoning, why include QuickTime with the MacBook Air? If you really want QuickTime support, you can download the latest version yourself.
Apple is just as capable of mouthing B.S. as is Microsoft or Google.
First, Quicktime hasn't had as many or as serious flaws. They have flaws, yes, but not as bad. Another, Quicktime is updated through Apple's updater. I've not seen Adobe Flash ask to upgrade unless a site uses a feature that exceeds the ability of the installed player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Makes total sense not to put on stuff that doesn't work right.
Apple didn't say that with regards to flash in Mac OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle
Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
But there's a corollary. Including it would ensure that most users only have a woefully outdated version. As I said before, Adobe doesn't notify users of new updates from within the software, or offer a way to check for updates in the software. You have to know about it somehow, and go to their web site and get it. The absolute limit of their notification is if a web site uses a feature too new for your current version, then it tells you. But not of security updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
You are correct...But I have third party software on my MBP and I get notified when there are software updates from the vendor. It is the same on my Win 7 machines. Firefox is not made by Apple yet i get notified when there are updates AND I get a notice that my FLASH needs to be updated. Apple could very easily do this......
That's limited though, Firefox only tells you if Flash needs to be updated after you've installed a new Firefox update, it's easy to go weeks or months without an important security update.
Apple has an agenda to eliminate Adobe Flash. That is all well and good...they can do whatever the want. But don't come out and say it is about anything else....just be upfront about it! :-)
And you have an insider that says otherwise or are you just speculating? So you're basing your anger off something that may not be the truth?
I don't see what the big deal is. That's the way it is with Microsoft Windows. And Linux... And Android. I don't see a problem with leaving it up to the user to install Flash if they want it.
Regarding the posts about Flash and Security... Have you ever been hacked by Rogue Flash apps? How many people do you know that have been hacked by Flash apps? I never have. I don't know anyone that has. And I repair computers all the time. This talk of security breaches feed on paranoia. Security holes exist in all software. Including Mac OSX, Linux, and iOS. There is no known way to have a completely secure platform. If there were, every institution would have subscribed to it. Unfortunately. If you are afraid to install software because of security rumors, that's just fine with me.
Flash provides a great inter-operating platform that works on many operating systems. It's primary usage may be video, but in reality, to goes far beyond that. Programming an Application in Flash once and running it on multiple OS's is one of it's specialties.
FYI. Air desktop apps are created with Flash code.
Would that be so hard for Apple to do if they really wanted to? If they were so concerned about their customers not updating to the latest security updates for Adobe Flash then why not prompt their customers to do so?)
1) It?s so odd that the posters that hate Apple having any control or success are now the ones that think it should be Apple?s responsibility to inform you that Flash needs to be updated.
2) I?m always bemused by the phrase ?would that be so hard? when the objection obviously isn?t an issue of difficulty, but of other considerations. ?Why doesn?t Adobe include ClickToFlash with Flash? Would that be so hard??
3) Why not come at this simple issue objectively? Would that be so hard?
And Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, although it certainly seems petty.
1) I have a feeling that all 3rd-party SW will be removed, not just Adobe?s SW.
2) Will plugins not be allowed on the Mac App Store? This seems like a great place for Adobe Flash and Perian to be. This makes it a lot easier for the average user to install and keep up-to-date.
3) If there is any one piece of 3rd-party software I?d want installed with a new Mac, it?s Perian. Hopefully that will be on the Mac App Store in a few months.
And you have an insider that says otherwise or are you just speculating? So you're basing your anger off something that may not be the truth?
Nice.
Oh c'mon now....this is common knowledge to anyone that has followed this whole thing between Apple and Adobe. I am not angry at all! :-) lol....that has nothing to do with it. Apple wants to remove Flash from it OS distribution and development. That is well within their right to do so...no argument from me.....But just come out and say so...don't pretend it is about anything else.
1) It?s so odd that the posters that hate Apple having any control or success are now the ones that think it should be Apple?s responsibility to inform you that Flash needs to be updated.
2) I?m always bemused by the phrase ?would that be so hard? when the objection obviously isn?t an issue of difficulty, but of other considerations. ?Why doesn?t Adobe include ClickToFlash with Flash? Would that be so hard??
3) Why not come at this simple issue objectively? Would that be so hard?
Brilliant. Love this point of view.
"Would that be so hard" is basically a straw man argument contained in one phrase.
Unfortunately. If you are afraid to install software because of security rumors, that's just fine with me.
Strawman argument. I don't think anyone's avoiding installing flash because of security flaws. Frankly, I think Flash is pretty important to have. But the fact is, Flash doesn't have a built-in updater, or an update notification system for that matter. When you have a case where installer disc images are updated once every nine months, it's going to be pretty out of date for most buyers. Apple has an updater for their software, but Adobe doesn't yet have a similar update system.
Quote:
FYI. Air desktop apps are created with Flash code.
Comments
puullleezzzzeeeeee
How many will never ever bother to down load flash .
Everybody who NEEDS it to view their favorite websites. That's how many.
And its easy to download and install from the browser. But, all those cheap ass different PC manufacturers can keep this on their installation platforms without an issue...but the computer company with the highest margins in the consumer sector can't?
There's obviously a little more to this than that. Safari has had serious security issues and will continue to do so (presumably) and Apple won't have problems bundling that (same with the quicktime plugin).
My guess is that here's a little way to stick it to Adobe (not hard, since we need them, but we aren't doing Flash anymore...) and its a support win for Apple since they don't have to support that awful plugin out of the box anymore....so lets do it.
Not a big deal, but watching them deprecate Java the other day without an announced replacement coming (Java is something the corporate world relies on that they are selling Xserve's to and doing that without an announced fallback plan was dumb from a sales perspective) - reminds me of the arrogance (which was a big part of his downfall before) of Jobs once he knows he has the power and can just do what he wants. Not very pretty.
Apple has issued an official comment on the lack of preinstalled Adobe Flash on the newly released MacBook Air and all future Macs, saying the change was done to ensure that users always have the latest version of Flash by downloading directly from Adobe.....
Wow. I can't believe how many people are upset about this completely reasonable action by Apple (although most of the complainers seem to be the usual wing-nuts).
1) This only makes Apple the same as almost every other platform
2) It *will* ensure that people have the latest update of Flash if they want to
3) The new software store is practically *designed* for these kinds of free add-ons and plug-ins.
4) It will make your computer more secure
This will just be like Rosetta, the first time you use a product that needs Flash, a box will come up saying "click here to get it" and it will be downloaded in seconds in the background. It will also automatically notify you of updates and probably auto-install those updates, direct from Adobe on the day they are available..
If anyone can't see how this is a far *better* system than what they have now and that it will be far *better* both for the end users who like Flash, as well as being *better* for Adobe as well, they are complete idiots IMO. Adobe will get greater distribution as well as greater penetration of the latest version and more information on installs. The end user will get a seamless Flash experience after clicking a few buttons.
Even those that hate Flash will be better off because "click to Flash" will probably be in the app store as well and Jobs will be happy because more people will be made aware of the fact that they don't need flash at all in the first place.
Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
And what happens when you reach a Flash-dependent site without having Flash installed? You get a simple prompt/redirect to install it. Same prompt/redirect as you get to update an installed version of Flash. So where's the difference?
If you're old enough to be able to use a computer then you're old enough to feed yourself. You don't need Apple to spoonfeed you or wipe your ass for you or hold your hand when you walk across the street.
Why not? They always did before and the Mac community loved them for it.
Note I said the Mac community. I am referring to the true community, not this forum, which is the Bizzarro Mac community.
Yet nobody's making a big deal on the fact that there are a lot Windows PC that doesn't have Flash preinstalled also.
That's the least of their worries ....
If you watch the event fom this week there will be a simple way to install and update apps on Mac OS X 10.6.5 or later. They call it Mac App Store. It's an optional way for developers to reach more customers by making it simpler* to install and keep app updated.
* Hopefully I will no longer have to explain what a DMG is or walk someone through the download, mounting, installing, unmounting and deleting of a DMG.
Explain to us why Apple should be responsible for everyone else's software updates. Do jot recall the outrage a year ago at Apple when they shipped Snow Leopard 5 days after Adobe updated a serious security flaw in Flash?
There is a war of words and willpower going on between Adobe and Apple....Egos are taking over instead of logic. I just did a fresh install of Snow Leopard last night. That lead to a fresh install of Firefox. Firefox prompted me to update my flash. Would that be so hard for Apple to do if they really wanted to? If they were so concerned about their customers not updating to the latest security updates for Adobe Flash then why not prompt their customers to do so?
It would be great customer service and a benefit to their paying customers to ensure their systems security. But it is not about that...Apple has an agenda to eliminate Adobe Flash. That is all well and good...they can do whatever the want. But don't come out and say it is about anything else....just be upfront about it! :-)
You don't bitch about Perian not being installed.
All these other things that might be needed to get the "full" web experience and you're whining because Apple decided to stop shipping Adobe Flash with OS X (just as all other operating systems)!
Definitely just a bunch of paranoid Apple-hating morons with nothing better to do.
It'l be nice not having to delete all those Flash plug-ins off my system from now on.
Oh, come on. I'm no fan of Flash but the quote from the Apple apparatchik is plain old spin. With that reasoning, why include QuickTime with the MacBook Air? If you really want QuickTime support, you can download the latest version yourself.
Apple is just as capable of mouthing B.S. as is Microsoft or Google.
First, Quicktime hasn't had as many or as serious flaws. They have flaws, yes, but not as bad. Another, Quicktime is updated through Apple's updater. I've not seen Adobe Flash ask to upgrade unless a site uses a feature that exceeds the ability of the installed player.
Makes total sense not to put on stuff that doesn't work right.
Apple didn't say that with regards to flash in Mac OS X.
Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
But there's a corollary. Including it would ensure that most users only have a woefully outdated version. As I said before, Adobe doesn't notify users of new updates from within the software, or offer a way to check for updates in the software. You have to know about it somehow, and go to their web site and get it. The absolute limit of their notification is if a web site uses a feature too new for your current version, then it tells you. But not of security updates.
You are correct...But I have third party software on my MBP and I get notified when there are software updates from the vendor. It is the same on my Win 7 machines. Firefox is not made by Apple yet i get notified when there are updates AND I get a notice that my FLASH needs to be updated. Apple could very easily do this......
That's limited though, Firefox only tells you if Flash needs to be updated after you've installed a new Firefox update, it's easy to go weeks or months without an important security update.
Apple has an agenda to eliminate Adobe Flash. That is all well and good...they can do whatever the want. But don't come out and say it is about anything else....just be upfront about it! :-)
And you have an insider that says otherwise or are you just speculating? So you're basing your anger off something that may not be the truth?
Nice.
In other words, welcome to the new world of Apple double-speak.
The RDF isn't new. Read the history of posts in this forum....
Regarding the posts about Flash and Security... Have you ever been hacked by Rogue Flash apps? How many people do you know that have been hacked by Flash apps? I never have. I don't know anyone that has. And I repair computers all the time. This talk of security breaches feed on paranoia. Security holes exist in all software. Including Mac OSX, Linux, and iOS. There is no known way to have a completely secure platform. If there were, every institution would have subscribed to it. Unfortunately. If you are afraid to install software because of security rumors, that's just fine with me.
Flash provides a great inter-operating platform that works on many operating systems. It's primary usage may be video, but in reality, to goes far beyond that. Programming an Application in Flash once and running it on multiple OS's is one of it's specialties.
FYI. Air desktop apps are created with Flash code.
Logically inaccurate. The change ensures that new purchasers will not have any version of Flash.
And Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, although it certainly seems petty.
It's like being damned with faint praise, this is being damned with faint support.
Would that be so hard for Apple to do if they really wanted to? If they were so concerned about their customers not updating to the latest security updates for Adobe Flash then why not prompt their customers to do so?)
1) It?s so odd that the posters that hate Apple having any control or success are now the ones that think it should be Apple?s responsibility to inform you that Flash needs to be updated.
2) I?m always bemused by the phrase ?would that be so hard? when the objection obviously isn?t an issue of difficulty, but of other considerations. ?Why doesn?t Adobe include ClickToFlash with Flash? Would that be so hard??
3) Why not come at this simple issue objectively? Would that be so hard?
And Apple is certainly within their rights to do this, although it certainly seems petty.
1) I have a feeling that all 3rd-party SW will be removed, not just Adobe?s SW.
2) Will plugins not be allowed on the Mac App Store? This seems like a great place for Adobe Flash and Perian to be. This makes it a lot easier for the average user to install and keep up-to-date.
3) If there is any one piece of 3rd-party software I?d want installed with a new Mac, it?s Perian. Hopefully that will be on the Mac App Store in a few months.
It's a popular browser plugin, so?
And you have an insider that says otherwise or are you just speculating? So you're basing your anger off something that may not be the truth?
Nice.
Oh c'mon now....this is common knowledge to anyone that has followed this whole thing between Apple and Adobe. I am not angry at all! :-) lol....that has nothing to do with it. Apple wants to remove Flash from it OS distribution and development. That is well within their right to do so...no argument from me.....But just come out and say so...don't pretend it is about anything else.
1) It?s so odd that the posters that hate Apple having any control or success are now the ones that think it should be Apple?s responsibility to inform you that Flash needs to be updated.
2) I?m always bemused by the phrase ?would that be so hard? when the objection obviously isn?t an issue of difficulty, but of other considerations. ?Why doesn?t Adobe include ClickToFlash with Flash? Would that be so hard??
3) Why not come at this simple issue objectively? Would that be so hard?
Brilliant. Love this point of view.
"Would that be so hard" is basically a straw man argument contained in one phrase.
Unfortunately. If you are afraid to install software because of security rumors, that's just fine with me.
Strawman argument. I don't think anyone's avoiding installing flash because of security flaws. Frankly, I think Flash is pretty important to have. But the fact is, Flash doesn't have a built-in updater, or an update notification system for that matter. When you have a case where installer disc images are updated once every nine months, it's going to be pretty out of date for most buyers. Apple has an updater for their software, but Adobe doesn't yet have a similar update system.
FYI. Air desktop apps are created with Flash code.
What are examples of popular Air desktop apps?