Review: Microsoft's Office 2011 for Mac

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  • Reply 61 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    I think this is the most accurate description of the "Office experience" I've seen yet.



    There are some simple facts about Office and Microsoft that explain why their products are as bad as they are though.



    For starters, it's important to remember that their "customer" is not you, it's actually the corporation you work for. Office products are designed to a spec that basically comes from talking to office managers of large corporations. It's an incestuous little circle that never includes actual users of the product. Even if you are a corporate slave or an office manager yourself and thus feel that Office is still designed for you, it really isn't. The goal with each new version of Office is simply to have a product to sell that ticks off all the boxes from the surveys of the office managers' reactions to the previous version.



    It's far more important for Microsoft to have Office appear to do many things, and to have Office appear to do some new things that "people have been asking for," than it is to have it be an efficient way of actually doing those things. There is literally no incentive for them to do otherwise. Microsoft doesn't make money by getting the user interaction right, and they don't lose money if they get it wrong. The whole system is set up to get the part where the software interacts with the actual users ... wrong.



    Finally, Microsoft differentiates it's products into "regular" and "pro" versions, but their idea of the difference between regular and pro, is that pro has some more expensive stuff in it. Get it? Your choice is not between "easy" and "complicated," but between "complicated" and "complicated/expensive." This tendency to complicate Office by throwing everything including the kitchen sink into the apps, means that if you are anything less than a super Word/Excel expert, the product is again, not designed for you. Office products include everything that the most demanding, technical, niche user asks for. The small number of basic features that almost everyone needs are thus always hidden under layers of crap and complication that only appeals to this tiny portion of the people that actually use the product.



    I work at a big Institution with a lot of super-smart academics and scientists so you'd think Office would be made for a place like that, but in fact most of the features in Office are completely useless to us.



    Also, despite the fact that it's a big Institution, most of the people that actually use the software are secretaries (I would argue that most places using Office are like this). So while Excel may have some features that Mr. SuperWhiz in Finance needs, it's mostly impenetrable to the majority of folks at our place that actually use it. Same with Word, mostly it's used by secretaries to type letters or occasional reports. 99% of the features are not only useless, they get in the way.



    "Finally, Microsoft differentiates it's products into "regular" and "pro" versions, but their idea of the difference between regular and pro, is that pro has some more expensive stuff in it"



    Total and utter BS. The pro versions include products that really are only used in a corporate enviroment. Outlook for example can work with POP3 or IMAP accounts but its really designed to work with an Exchange Server. So Office with out Outlook is great for home users or students that dont have access to an Exchange server.



    Outlook with Exchange cant be beat for coporate Email. I guess that is why 72% of corporations use it.
  • Reply 62 of 107
    Is it just me or is it that Office 2011 isn't even out yet and people are complaining ALREADY? Well, at any rate, I'll be sure to flame after I've actually tried it out. I'm optimistic about the ribbon, seems far more useful than the "elements gallery." I just hope that the trial comes out earlier this time, for office 2008 had to wait a while before the trial came out.
  • Reply 63 of 107
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    For starters, it's important to remember that their "customer" is not you, it's actually the corporation you work for. Office products are designed to a spec that basically comes from talking to office managers of large corporations. It's an incestuous little circle that never includes actual users of the product. Even if you are a corporate slave or an office manager yourself and thus feel that Office is still designed for you, it really isn't. The goal with each new version of Office is simply to have a product to sell that ticks off all the boxes from the surveys of the office managers' reactions to the previous version.



    This is complete and utter tosh. Microsoft have several focus groups consisting of "normal" end users, and sophisticated methods for analysing how their products are used "in the field". If you'd care to find out more, and I urge you to do so in order that you cease peddling nonsense, check out this presentation about why and how the ribbon interface came to be.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    Also, despite the fact that it's a big Institution, most of the people that actually use the software are secretaries (I would argue that most places using Office are like this). So while Excel may have some features that Mr. SuperWhiz in Finance needs, it's mostly impenetrable to the majority of folks at our place that actually use it. Same with Word, mostly it's used by secretaries to type letters or occasional reports. 99% of the features are not only useless, they get in the way.



    I would have to agree that the vast majority of Office users do not even scratch the surface of what it is capable of. Most Office users shouldn't really be using Office but rather something like Microsoft Works or even just WordPad/TextEdit.
  • Reply 64 of 107
    No wonder Ray Ozzie is running from this bunch.



    Open office it is.
  • Reply 65 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    WTF?



    Wait a minute. Did we just catch a Moderator sw.........
  • Reply 66 of 107
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 923member
    I find it funny to criticize Office for a lack of following Apple's Human Interface Guidelines when Apple hasn't followed them for years, and the UI on Apple's software is all over the place. iTunes, iWorks, iPhoto. MS is trying to walk the line between Windows familiarity and Apple familiarity; they are bound to displease both sides.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 67 of 107
    Finally Messenger gets video and audio chat with PC! Whoohooo!!!
  • Reply 68 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post


    I refuse to use Microsoft Office. It's time for the monopoly to end.



    I suppose you've sold you iPod too, and bought a Zune? Or are bad monopolies only ones by companies you don't approve of?
  • Reply 69 of 107
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    What people need to know. For simple tasks Pages is a way better app than word and Keynote beats the carp out of powerpoit. End of story.



    And for even more simple tasks, nothing beats the speed and ease of use of the Notepad.
  • Reply 70 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    You can quote me on it... and probably anyone who has actually used both.



    How to insert a photo:

    Pages: drag/drop photo on document - click on picture & drag to location - adjust size - done



    Word: hunt for nested insert button - hunt for photo margin settings that are nested - realize you need to adjust document margins first - hunt for nested document margin settings - pull out calculator to determine spacing in relation to photo - find nested photo image settings and click all kinds of options that don't mean anything - click apply/return - determine you want image moved slightly / redo previous steps - realize the document margin settings are competing for text box margin spacing which are competing against photo margin settings - die a little inside - spend hours trolling web and help forums on how to place and position a simple photo file - realize that Word is just for typing letter's n shit yo.



    You know if you right click on a photo (Windows) and select layout, change to square, you can drag the image anywhere you want on the page right???
  • Reply 71 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    And for even more simple tasks, nothing beats the speed and ease of use of the Notepad.



    I'm still a VI user myself
  • Reply 72 of 107
    More trash. I pity those of us who are forced to use this crap for their work or the like...



    I only have Office 2008 installed for legacy document use and Excel. (Sorry Steve, Numbers just isn't up to even casual spreadsheet use.) As it is, I wish I could go back to 2004 to get something that works decently. 2008 on my MBP is actually SLOWER than 2004!



    I will NEVER give so much as a PENNY to M$ ever again.
  • Reply 73 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    Opened up Pages - dropped in the logo, dragged it to where I wanted it, made a box with a bleed and typed some text, made some text boxes. Done. 38 seconds.



    Saved the file as word - opened it up in word - word screwed it all up.



    I'm sorry that you had a difficult time, but I don't think you quite understand something. Word does not screw up Word documents. Word defines Word documents. If Pages told you it made a Word document, but that document did not look right in Word, then Pages lied to you.
  • Reply 74 of 107
    desuserigndesuserign Posts: 1,316member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Excel 2011



    Like Word, the new Excel delivers stronger connections to features Windows Office users are familiar with, including “Sparklines” mini charts that fit into a single cell of the spreadsheet grid to help visualize data, enhanced Pivot Table reports, support for extended Excel functionality with the returned support of VBA, and support for the new Excel Web App for online editing.



    A few weeks ago a report from AI indicated that Excel 2011 would not support pivot tables in the Mac version, which was an astonishing deal breaker for me.

    Glad to see that this has proven false, but wondering how such a specific and vital detail could be reported so incorrectly the first time around.



    [In checking back I see it was actually AI quoting a review by Mossberg. He has not impressed me (positively, that is.)]

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._mac_2011.html
  • Reply 75 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    What people need to know. For simple tasks Pages is a way better app than word and Keynote beats the carp out of powerpoit. End of story.



    I did not know that apple became so fishy.

    (Emphasis in the quote is mine.)
  • Reply 76 of 107
    enzosenzos Posts: 344member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rain View Post


    You can quote me on it... and probably anyone who has actually used both.



    How to insert a photo:

    Pages: drag/drop photo on document - click on picture & drag to location - adjust size - done



    Word: hunt for nested insert button - hunt for photo margin settings that are nested - realize you need to adjust document margins first - hunt for nested document margin settings - pull out calculator to determine spacing in relation to photo - find nested photo image settings and click all kinds of options that don't mean anything - click apply/return - determine you want image moved slightly / redo previous steps - realize the document margin settings are competing for text box margin spacing which are competing against photo margin settings - die a little inside - spend hours trolling web and help forums on how to place and position a simple photo file - realize that Word is just for typing letter's n shit yo.



    It was so easy in Word 95 (which also had double-click 'EGO for Word' embedded graphics editing, good EndNote integration &c.), so why have they gone so far backwards? I also used ClarisWorks for a few things involving graphics - though it was rather quirky and awkward it was still heaps slicker than Word 96, 98, X &c..
  • Reply 77 of 107
    I've posted before... and I will again: the development of usable Suite software over the last 7-10 years has been seriously disappointing with every version, whether from Adobe or MS.



    Has anyone done a study to graph the productivity gained (or lost) with these ever-increasing bloatware suites? Why do I think that the graph would be a simple flat line?



    I have an old Mac PowerPC 8100/80 sitting a couple of feet from me in the studio, that I every once in a while have to boot up to open an old FreeHand 5/7 or Photoshop 2.5 eps (to see it's profile). I also have PS 7 running under CrossOver on my Mac for certain old, non-ported filters like FFT (Furier Transform).



    Amazing how simple, elegant, and productive those old-school programs were, and still are. No ribbons, funky GUIs, 2-sided flip preferences(!), whatever. All we were ever after was more speed. Today we have it... but it's consistently being abused by bad software programming. Imagine THOSE packages updated to take advantage of today's hardware and speed, a few format compatibility issues, and a resolution bump to their GUIs (icons, dia-boxes, etc.).



    Yes, Pixelmator (PS alternative) and Bean (great simple text app!) do just that. However you would think that the big players could do the necessary "optimizations" far easier, and still keep their "pro-users" quite happy with powerful additional functions, WITHOUT screwing up the GUI and base app every Suite iteration. Basically what Apple did with SL vs. Leopard: trim and optimize. I'm afraid to even ask how many GB's MS-Office needs to install, or GB's of RAM to operate smoothly.



    As posted above, most people (>90%) just don't need, or use the features in (for example) Word. When you need a so-called "Word-expert" to do something like set up a letter template for a secretary, that says tons about the software in regards to "user-friendly (GUI)"... and "productive".



    Agree with the "Prof" 100%": "manager-friendly" is the proper term for Suites such as these.
  • Reply 78 of 107
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eji View Post


    Try doing something simple like, uh, searching for something in a document in Word 2011. You've got two options: either the idiotically basic (unremovable) search field in the top toolbar, which pointlessly "glimmers" when you hit Command-F, or the advanced find, which is now buried with no keyboard shortcut and is still obscurely named "EditFindDialog" in the customization options ? which, incidentally, freezes Word every time I right-click on the toolbar and select "Toolbars > Customize Toolbars and Menus...". And when you do manage to find the Find ("Find the Find" ? a sick Microsoft game?) it now automatically finds and highlights every instance in the document. To get to "Find Next," it takes a couple of arbitrary clicks to activate it.



    Oh, wait, there's a third, sidebar-style find option. Which adds no functionality to either the standalone dialogue box or the search field variants.



    Or better yet, try copying and pasting something. Do it a couple of times, maybe with formatted text. Watch Word choke and crash and lose every change between now and your last save.



    These are more than beta bugs. It's garbage. Complete and utter garbage.



    Man, I completely disagree. The search tools are absolutely excellent.. If you're crunching enormous quantities of text, the ability to see all your search terms in context with a simple apple-f is a gift from god. It doesn't take an abitrary click, it takes a single one to select the place in the document? and you jump right to it instead of having to click individually through each one, one by one for a word you might have mis-spelled anyway. The new way is joy.



    And honestly, I haven't had any problems with the clipboard. I copy and paste willy nilly, and so far so good.
  • Reply 79 of 107
    mariomario Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quillz View Post


    Before this turns into yet another 15-page flame war between Office, iWork, Apple and Microsoft, all I have to say on the matter is that I've been using Office '11 since Beta 2 and I've been quite impressed with it. I find it opens quick, works well and, at the end of the day, gets the job done. Of course it's not perfect, nothing is, but it's certainly a good foundation for future updates and improvements.





    If this was true, then we'd all be more productive on a CLI than a GUI. After all, words are better than pictures, right?



    Yes, indeed. For people that know what they are doing, CLI is in fact faster and more productive than GUI can ever be. Some things simply can't be done in the GUI nicely or effectively.



    But, the whole idea with the GUIs is to enable users who would never use a computer otherwise, to use one by clicking in pictures, instead of learning to read and write.
  • Reply 80 of 107
    smcsmc Posts: 5member
    I use Entourage 2008 for Exchange in a corporate environment, and one of my biggest complaints is that it won't support a simple table in an email. Even forwarding an email with a table completely mangles the layout of the forwarded message.



    Thanks,

    Stacy
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