The reality is no one cares about that geeky sh** such as benchmarks. They are going to use the baby air to surf, blog, watch movies ect. Give it a rest and stop over analyzing everything!
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKeeperFunReg
Despite the fact that new 13" Air is more powerful than good old 11", I would prefer latter. Both have two-core processors, and the main difference is core frequency. 11" Air have 1.4GHz on each core, and I consider that as fast enough for regular work.
And yes, comparing Air and iPad is pretty stupid - that's two different devices for two different uses.
+2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-J
I don't understand that. If somebody cares about raw performance, they likely would buy the faster processor. Why wasn't that one considered?
Because people (users, journalists, whomever) are mostly too lazy to look at "custom-build" options. They take the primary-listed models as the only thing Apple offers and cares about.
The reality is no one cares about that geeky sh** such as benchmarks. They are going to use the baby air to surf, blog, watch movies ect. Give it a rest and stop over analyzing everything!
My thoughts exactly. We all act like "OMG, the MacBook Air is too slow to run OS X." Uh, news flash: OS X runs very well on an iPad. And it's not like Snow Leopard = Vista. Go see one for yourself. Apple has done a great job.
I just wish they'd add a Nvidia 335M option for the 13"
Would be teh perfect notebook *-*
I'm not quite sure a faster GPU at this stage would improve the overall performance. CPU speed probably is more important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddesignboy
For me, the Air is unquestionably "snappier" than the Macbook Pro in real-world use. I realize that the Air has a slower CPU so it's no surprise that the Air performs worse on the benchmark tests. I've used a 2.33Ghz Macbook Pro for years but for the past two days, I've been using 1.4Ghz 11" Air, and the Air starts up in seconds, apps open almost instantly, web pages load instantly, and every task takes much less time to complete than on my Macbook Pro. Maybe this is because the Air is newer and has fewer resident processes, maybe the faster Flash drive on the Air makes up for the CPU, maybe the Air will suffer during heavy-CPU tasks, or maybe I just have a slow Macbook Pro, but whatever the reason, the Air completes the mundane tasks much faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
It is “snappier” but that is from the SSD*. If you replace the HDD in any PC you get the same results.
Indeed. The point is, nonetheless, that the SSD on the 11" MacBook Air compensates for the 1.4ghz CPU. Along with many Core Graphics/ OpenCL(?) operations that occur in OS X running on the 320M, I think the 11" MBA will surprise many, and infuriate the techboys that salivate over pure specs.
One thing that is not tested, is how the "custom SSD" in the MBA compares with standard 2.5" SSDs in a MacBook/Pro. Now *that* would be some real information. Does Apple's custom solution and selected SSD controller fare better over SATA1/SATA2 - connected standard SSDs? Remember how some Mac laptops only supported SATA1 even if you put an SSD in it you might have bottlenecks(?)
FWIW the MBA 11" destroys my MacBook Aluminium 2ghz with 7200rpm hard drive when it comes to Xbench. About 125 to my paltry 60-something score. There are lies, damned lies, and then there are benchmarks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorman.
Cool it shows me that 1,4 Intel Core 2 Duo is slower than 2,66 Intel Core 2 Duo. Very impressive, indeed.
Still I wait when they answer my question about the comparison of iMac and a new iPod nano.
Ignoring the silly comparisons in the article, I am a writer currently working on a (aluminium unibody) Macbook. For a while now I've been considering getting an iPad with a separate Apple keyboard to work on in libraries and the like. This has the advantage of being able to separate the screen and keyboard and help avoid RSI and neck strain. However, it would mean having to opt for iPad's Pages over Word and working on iOS rather than Mac OS X (maybe not a problem). Or I could go with the new Macbook Air. I wouldn't have the advantage of separate screen and input but it would all be one system, more powerful and still lighter than my 13" Macbook.
That's no surprise. It's basically the definition of a netbook, only expensive as hell. Until optical-drives become an option and SSDs becomes more common on laptop, it is what it is.
Also, it would help if we start using low-voltage processors if we're gonna go this route. Since flash memory doesn't need that much power.
That's no surprise. It's basically the definition of a netbook, only expensive as hell. Until optical-drives become an option and SSDs becomes more common on laptop, it is what it is.
Also, it would help if we start using low-voltage processors if we're gonna go this route. Since flash memory doesn't need that much power.
People may dismiss the Macbook Air 11" as an "expensive netbook" but that is just missing the point.
The reality is that the CPU is about 60-70% the CPU performance of the latest MacBook Pro 13". Depending what you're doing though certain tasks may be faster or simply not that bad because of the pure-flash storage.
The design, feel, weight, finish, responsiveness, Mac OS X, multitouch, widescreen LED-backlit, instant on. Capability to run the "big boy" software... I tried one out briefly today. This thing will not be for everyone, or fit in the casual cheapo-laptop cash-strapped consumer.
If one has trouble keeping up with the mortgage, this is *not* the laptop to get.
But, it is, yet another gadget of desire. Should do a good 500,000 to 800,000 units in the Oct-Nov 2010 holiday quarter. It's a stocking-stuffer, for sure. And any kid going to college would love to have one. Business execs, etc. etc. The only thing holding it back is Apple's production capacity but also the usual rigmarole that people are used to Windows, MS Office, etc. etc.
The widescreen is a little weird initially but web browsing ain't that bad, spreadsheets should be alright, and video and movies will be sweet, iLife should be alright too at 16:9 at that resolution. Keyboard and trackpad feels good, makes any cramped netbook keyboard and plastic trackpad just look and feel like junk.
I don't think the MacBook Air 11" will propel Macs to the stratosphere, but it will bulk up Apple's Oct-Nov 2010 results to be best revenue, best profit, best number of Macs sold, ever. To be followed up with iPad 2 in the Jan-Mar 2011 quarter to make everyone that bought the original iPad feel like a total schmuck...
In any case, the MacBook Air 11" and the iPad 2 will be the computing revolution of 2011. Netbook? Yeah, Apple showed them how to do it right with the MBA 11" and iPad/2.
.Indeed. The point is, nonetheless, that the SSD on the 11" MacBook Air compensates for the 1.4ghz CPU. Along with many Core Graphics/ OpenCL(?) operations that occur in OS X running on the 320M, I think the 11" MBA will surprise many, and infuriate the techboys that salivate over pure specs.
One thing that is not tested, is how the "custom SSD" in the MBA compares with standard 2.5" SSDs in a MacBook/Pro. Now *that* would be some real information. Does Apple's custom solution and selected SSD controller fare better over SATA1/SATA2 - connected standard SSDs? Remember how some Mac laptops only supported SATA1 even if you put an SSD in it you might have bottlenecks(?)
FWIW the MBA 11" destroys my MacBook Aluminium 2ghz with 7200rpm hard drive when it comes to Xbench. About 125 to my paltry 60-something score. There are lies, damned lies, and then there are benchmarks.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read.
PS: I'm not a fan of calling these machines "netbooks". Netbooks were born around Intel's cheap, low-power and low-performance Atom CPUs. From those we got cheap, low-performance machines. A couple vendors made some very nice ad expensive netbooks, most still hbe cramped keyboards and all have Atom CPUs. These MBAs have none of those things. The C2Ds might be slow compared to 35W C2D chips and 35W Core-iX chips, but they are in a class well above Atom, cost (by themselves) as much as their full-size and full-power brothers which is more than most netbooks cost in total. These are true ultra-portables, not some netbook that is only decent at doing light 'net' activities.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read.
PS: I'm not a fan of calling these machines "netbooks". Netbooks were born around Intel's cheap, low-power and low-performance Atom CPUs. From those we got cheap, low-performance machines. A couple vendors made some very nice ad expensive netbooks, most still hbe cramped keyboards and all have Atom CPUs. These MBAs have none of those things. The C2Ds might be slow compared to 35W C2D chips and 35W Core-iX chips, but they are in a class well above Atom, cost (by themselves) as much as their full-size and full-power brothers which is more than most netbooks cost in total. These are true ultra-portables, not some netbook that is only decent at doing light 'net' activities.
Cool. Will look through the article. Got a good play of the 11" and 13" MBA today at the Apple Reseller shop where I sometimes help out. Lots of piccies to come...!
Initial impressions. Very nice feel. Doesn't feel as light as you imagine, but feels slick and smooth, just right. Here's the thing: after you fiddle with it, you pick up a Macbook Pro 13", and it feels like a darn rock! Boot time is 30 seconds from press of the power button on a 11" and 26 seconds on the 13". This is not fresh out of the box, it's once a user account is set up, etc. The 11" is snappy enough, though you will notice some lags during some CPU intensive stuff.
The 11" feels BIG! Like a real laptop. You forget it's 11". The widescreen is kinda weird, but interesting after a while.
The 13" just feels, well, like really how a 13" MacBook/Pro should be. After using it, you won't want anything else, you just wish it would have a Core i5, 4GB of RAM, 320GB SSD and a nice GPU... in that new MacBook Air form factor. It's definitely a new benchmark in design that Apple and every other PC manufacturer will strive towards over the next few years. And possibly mark the final design of laptops as we know them at the moment, before things go tablet/hybrid/whatever over the next 5 years.
Only thing, BACKLIT KEYBOARDS. This will be a huge demand from users, I think Apple will incorporate it as an option either over the next several months or in the next revision. I think they simply could not afford the engineering capacity to squeeze that in, or maybe there were some last minute production issues and they needed the MacBook Airs out by end of October latest.
Anyway I won't belabour the points too much, a lot of reviews and benches coming through now. I'll just post the pics! We had some fun taking them just now after the shop closed. Just got back home.
Bot time is 30 seconds from press of the power button on a 11" and 26 seconds on the 13". This is not fresh out of the box, it's once a user account is set up, etc. The 11" is snappy enough, though you will notice some lags during some CPU intensive stuff.
Ouch! Something is wrong with those machines. They should around 15 seconds. Even Mac with a HDD is academy over 30 seconds. I've been using a 3rd-party SSD in my MBP for many months now and I'm still at 15 seconds, ad Anand has these booting up faster due to a more optimized SSD*.
* They are SSDs even though not in the shape of a 2.5" HDD.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read...
Nice article, just one niggle... AnandTech got it wrong on "Instant On":
"Apple advertises the new MacBook Air as being instant on as a result of the internal SSD. That’s mostly untrue........Clearly the new Air isn't instant on from a boot standpoint, but it's pretty much there from a recover-from-sleep standpoint. The new Airs both go to sleep and wake up from sleep quicker than any of the other Macs, including my upgraded 15-inch Core i7 MacBook Pro. Again, nothing can trump Apple's tight integration between hardware and software."
....................
I posted this comment:
....................
Great article, just one niggle, Instant On does not refer to Boot, nor Wake From Sleep.
From the Apple website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week - even up to an entire month later - and it wakes in an instant."
OMG iPhoto just nuked my Flickr album when I tried to delete the pictures from iPhoto. Please hold, restoring... Restored. Trimmed down number of pictures posted on this thread.
Comments
The reality is no one cares about that geeky sh** such as benchmarks. They are going to use the baby air to surf, blog, watch movies ect. Give it a rest and stop over analyzing everything!
+1
Despite the fact that new 13" Air is more powerful than good old 11", I would prefer latter. Both have two-core processors, and the main difference is core frequency. 11" Air have 1.4GHz on each core, and I consider that as fast enough for regular work.
And yes, comparing Air and iPad is pretty stupid - that's two different devices for two different uses.
+2
I don't understand that. If somebody cares about raw performance, they likely would buy the faster processor. Why wasn't that one considered?
Because people (users, journalists, whomever) are mostly too lazy to look at "custom-build" options. They take the primary-listed models as the only thing Apple offers and cares about.
The reality is no one cares about that geeky sh** such as benchmarks. They are going to use the baby air to surf, blog, watch movies ect. Give it a rest and stop over analyzing everything!
My thoughts exactly. We all act like "OMG, the MacBook Air is too slow to run OS X." Uh, news flash: OS X runs very well on an iPad. And it's not like Snow Leopard = Vista. Go see one for yourself. Apple has done a great job.
I just wish they'd add a Nvidia 335M option for the 13"
Would be teh perfect notebook *-*
I'm not quite sure a faster GPU at this stage would improve the overall performance. CPU speed probably is more important.
For me, the Air is unquestionably "snappier" than the Macbook Pro in real-world use. I realize that the Air has a slower CPU so it's no surprise that the Air performs worse on the benchmark tests. I've used a 2.33Ghz Macbook Pro for years but for the past two days, I've been using 1.4Ghz 11" Air, and the Air starts up in seconds, apps open almost instantly, web pages load instantly, and every task takes much less time to complete than on my Macbook Pro. Maybe this is because the Air is newer and has fewer resident processes, maybe the faster Flash drive on the Air makes up for the CPU, maybe the Air will suffer during heavy-CPU tasks, or maybe I just have a slow Macbook Pro, but whatever the reason, the Air completes the mundane tasks much faster.
It is “snappier” but that is from the SSD*. If you replace the HDD in any PC you get the same results.
Indeed. The point is, nonetheless, that the SSD on the 11" MacBook Air compensates for the 1.4ghz CPU. Along with many Core Graphics/ OpenCL(?) operations that occur in OS X running on the 320M, I think the 11" MBA will surprise many, and infuriate the techboys that salivate over pure specs.
One thing that is not tested, is how the "custom SSD" in the MBA compares with standard 2.5" SSDs in a MacBook/Pro. Now *that* would be some real information. Does Apple's custom solution and selected SSD controller fare better over SATA1/SATA2 - connected standard SSDs? Remember how some Mac laptops only supported SATA1 even if you put an SSD in it you might have bottlenecks(?)
FWIW the MBA 11" destroys my MacBook Aluminium 2ghz with 7200rpm hard drive when it comes to Xbench. About 125 to my paltry 60-something score. There are lies, damned lies, and then there are benchmarks.
Cool it shows me that 1,4 Intel Core 2 Duo is slower than 2,66 Intel Core 2 Duo. Very impressive, indeed.
Still I wait when they answer my question about the comparison of iMac and a new iPod nano.
Also, it would help if we start using low-voltage processors if we're gonna go this route. Since flash memory doesn't need that much power.
That's no surprise. It's basically the definition of a netbook, only expensive as hell. Until optical-drives become an option and SSDs becomes more common on laptop, it is what it is.
Also, it would help if we start using low-voltage processors if we're gonna go this route. Since flash memory doesn't need that much power.
People may dismiss the Macbook Air 11" as an "expensive netbook" but that is just missing the point.
The reality is that the CPU is about 60-70% the CPU performance of the latest MacBook Pro 13". Depending what you're doing though certain tasks may be faster or simply not that bad because of the pure-flash storage.
The design, feel, weight, finish, responsiveness, Mac OS X, multitouch, widescreen LED-backlit, instant on. Capability to run the "big boy" software... I tried one out briefly today. This thing will not be for everyone, or fit in the casual cheapo-laptop cash-strapped consumer.
If one has trouble keeping up with the mortgage, this is *not* the laptop to get.
But, it is, yet another gadget of desire. Should do a good 500,000 to 800,000 units in the Oct-Nov 2010 holiday quarter. It's a stocking-stuffer, for sure. And any kid going to college would love to have one. Business execs, etc. etc. The only thing holding it back is Apple's production capacity but also the usual rigmarole that people are used to Windows, MS Office, etc. etc.
The widescreen is a little weird initially but web browsing ain't that bad, spreadsheets should be alright, and video and movies will be sweet, iLife should be alright too at 16:9 at that resolution. Keyboard and trackpad feels good, makes any cramped netbook keyboard and plastic trackpad just look and feel like junk.
I don't think the MacBook Air 11" will propel Macs to the stratosphere, but it will bulk up Apple's Oct-Nov 2010 results to be best revenue, best profit, best number of Macs sold, ever. To be followed up with iPad 2 in the Jan-Mar 2011 quarter to make everyone that bought the original iPad feel like a total schmuck...
In any case, the MacBook Air 11" and the iPad 2 will be the computing revolution of 2011. Netbook? Yeah, Apple showed them how to do it right with the MBA 11" and iPad/2.
.Indeed. The point is, nonetheless, that the SSD on the 11" MacBook Air compensates for the 1.4ghz CPU. Along with many Core Graphics/ OpenCL(?) operations that occur in OS X running on the 320M, I think the 11" MBA will surprise many, and infuriate the techboys that salivate over pure specs.
One thing that is not tested, is how the "custom SSD" in the MBA compares with standard 2.5" SSDs in a MacBook/Pro. Now *that* would be some real information. Does Apple's custom solution and selected SSD controller fare better over SATA1/SATA2 - connected standard SSDs? Remember how some Mac laptops only supported SATA1 even if you put an SSD in it you might have bottlenecks(?)
FWIW the MBA 11" destroys my MacBook Aluminium 2ghz with 7200rpm hard drive when it comes to Xbench. About 125 to my paltry 60-something score. There are lies, damned lies, and then there are benchmarks.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read.
PS: I'm not a fan of calling these machines "netbooks". Netbooks were born around Intel's cheap, low-power and low-performance Atom CPUs. From those we got cheap, low-performance machines. A couple vendors made some very nice ad expensive netbooks, most still hbe cramped keyboards and all have Atom CPUs. These MBAs have none of those things. The C2Ds might be slow compared to 35W C2D chips and 35W Core-iX chips, but they are in a class well above Atom, cost (by themselves) as much as their full-size and full-power brothers which is more than most netbooks cost in total. These are true ultra-portables, not some netbook that is only decent at doing light 'net' activities.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read.
PS: I'm not a fan of calling these machines "netbooks". Netbooks were born around Intel's cheap, low-power and low-performance Atom CPUs. From those we got cheap, low-performance machines. A couple vendors made some very nice ad expensive netbooks, most still hbe cramped keyboards and all have Atom CPUs. These MBAs have none of those things. The C2Ds might be slow compared to 35W C2D chips and 35W Core-iX chips, but they are in a class well above Atom, cost (by themselves) as much as their full-size and full-power brothers which is more than most netbooks cost in total. These are true ultra-portables, not some netbook that is only decent at doing light 'net' activities.
Cool. Will look through the article. Got a good play of the 11" and 13" MBA today at the Apple Reseller shop where I sometimes help out. Lots of piccies to come...!
Initial impressions. Very nice feel. Doesn't feel as light as you imagine, but feels slick and smooth, just right. Here's the thing: after you fiddle with it, you pick up a Macbook Pro 13", and it feels like a darn rock! Boot time is 30 seconds from press of the power button on a 11" and 26 seconds on the 13". This is not fresh out of the box, it's once a user account is set up, etc. The 11" is snappy enough, though you will notice some lags during some CPU intensive stuff.
The 11" feels BIG! Like a real laptop. You forget it's 11". The widescreen is kinda weird, but interesting after a while.
The 13" just feels, well, like really how a 13" MacBook/Pro should be. After using it, you won't want anything else, you just wish it would have a Core i5, 4GB of RAM, 320GB SSD and a nice GPU... in that new MacBook Air form factor. It's definitely a new benchmark in design that Apple and every other PC manufacturer will strive towards over the next few years. And possibly mark the final design of laptops as we know them at the moment, before things go tablet/hybrid/whatever over the next 5 years.
Only thing, BACKLIT KEYBOARDS. This will be a huge demand from users, I think Apple will incorporate it as an option either over the next several months or in the next revision. I think they simply could not afford the engineering capacity to squeeze that in, or maybe there were some last minute production issues and they needed the MacBook Airs out by end of October latest.
Anyway I won't belabour the points too much, a lot of reviews and benches coming through now. I'll just post the pics! We had some fun taking them just now after the shop closed. Just got back home.
Bot time is 30 seconds from press of the power button on a 11" and 26 seconds on the 13". This is not fresh out of the box, it's once a user account is set up, etc. The 11" is snappy enough, though you will notice some lags during some CPU intensive stuff.
Ouch! Something is wrong with those machines. They should around 15 seconds. Even Mac with a HDD is academy over 30 seconds. I've been using a 3rd-party SSD in my MBP for many months now and I'm still at 15 seconds, ad Anand has these booting up faster due to a more optimized SSD*.
* They are SSDs even though not in the shape of a 2.5" HDD.
AnandTech posted a thorough review last night with plenty of benhmarks. It's worth the read...
Nice article, just one niggle... AnandTech got it wrong on "Instant On":
"Apple advertises the new MacBook Air as being instant on as a result of the internal SSD. That’s mostly untrue........Clearly the new Air isn't instant on from a boot standpoint, but it's pretty much there from a recover-from-sleep standpoint. The new Airs both go to sleep and wake up from sleep quicker than any of the other Macs, including my upgraded 15-inch Core i7 MacBook Pro. Again, nothing can trump Apple's tight integration between hardware and software."
....................
I posted this comment:
....................
Great article, just one niggle, Instant On does not refer to Boot, nor Wake From Sleep.
From the Apple website:
"And when you put MacBook Air to sleep for more than an hour, it enters what’s called standby mode. So you can come back to MacBook Air a day, a week - even up to an entire month later - and it wakes in an instant."
http://www.apple.com/macbookair/design.html
Instant On refers to a Standby Mode (basically hibernate) that is not Boot nor Wake From Sleep.
IMG_0094 by nvidia2008, on Flickr
MBA 11", MBA 13", iPad by nvidia2008, on Flickr
MBA 11", MBA 13", iPad by nvidia2008, on Flickr
iPad, MBA 11", MBA 13", MBP 17" by nvidia2008, on Flickr
Last few:
IMG_0130 by nvidia2008, on Flickr
IMG_0152 by nvidia2008, on Flickr
IMG_0158 by nvidia2008, on Flickr
MBA 11", iPad by nvidia2008, on Flickr