I know that the Mac consumer business is strong. Hoe does that re-afffirm Apple's commitment to OSX Server?
As someone who's brought Macs into their business this move is a bit unsettling.
Based on my experience with Apple...
If they were going to discontinue support for OS X Server, they would have announced it and moved on.
Apple is not sentimental or into legacy... If it it isn't going to make them money or provide a stratecic advantage, it's gone -- the sooner the better.
To the contrary, they announced alternate hardware that can run the software.
I believe that Apple can go several ways with the software:
1) Develop an iServer - Cloud Server combo for home and small business
2) License the software to non-competitive, established, server provider -- IBM and Oracle.
Apple + very modest installed user base of Xserves: robust, forward looking computer company of serious adults with a legitimate toe-hold in the enterprise and track record of excellent customer service.
Apple - very modest installed user base of Xserves: puerile toy company of capricious children who have nothing but contempt for their woefully misdirected customers and who shortly plan to cease production of everything but glorified Tamagotchi.
Every disapproving comment on this decision by Apple seems to carry the unspoken assumption that Apple had/has a very large number of customers using, buying and asking for this product. I suspect this assumption is incorrect and, thus, the arguments built upon this edifice crumble when the truth of this assumption vanishes.
Not at all. Take a look at #223 above you. To my mind, the issue is that this choice speaks volumes about the maturity level of the company.
for me apple was philosophy, now its just money, i used to work in macos but now i feel dissapointed. apple cheated us, made us belive that thet care about a business they were just exploring until they truly made a hit with phones and all that crap, then abandoned us.
go ahed explore gadgets in deep but everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down. apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
microsoft decreasing, apple is about to reach the crest, welcome linux.
for me apple was philosophy, now its just money, i used to work in macos but now i feel dissapointed. apple cheated us, made us belive that thet care about a business they were just exploring until they truly made a hit with phones and all that crap, then abandoned us.
go ahed explore gadgets in deep but everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down. apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
microsoft decreasing, apple is about to reach the crest, welcome linux.
killabyte
Did you believe enough in Apple to invest in AAPL?
They can't give you the excellent products (hardware and software) if they don't make enough profit to sustain their business goals.
Maybe, but they were all true, so what's your problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtraO
Monologue at the Genius bar: "Kowabunga!, your Ipod nano with all of your priceless personal chat history and your $1.99 toenail trimmer app in it stopped working? There, there, let's just toss it in the circular file and give you a new one. Consider yourself "customer serviced", ...and have a nice day!
Funny how the haters live in some bizarre alternate reality.
Note:
1. Apple is consistently rated #1 in customer service - by a wide margin. Hardly supports your silly contention.
2. Every iPod user I know connects it with a computer - so their data is always on the computer if the iPod goes bad.
3. As for the computer, Apple's Time Machine was one of the most successful methods for making backing up automatic and transparent to the user. Apple believes strongly in data integrity and security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000
As you said, Apple will continue to offer the server on Mac Pro and Mini for small businesses, but what's the server market like for companies that do $100 million or more per year in revenues? At that point, something like IBM's AS/400 can more than do the job for in-house app development and scale up to much higher volume levels as the company grows. Or Wintel or Linux or low-end Solaris servers can do just as well at lower cost with "off-the-shelf" third party apps.
Exactly. it's just not a market that's of interest or benefits from what Apple offers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra
Yes. Jobs earned millions of dollars. Not the people who worked at NeXT and bought into his BS vision and most importantly not the consumers who actually bought the machines and were then abandoned.
But hey, in your eyes as long as Steve makes money it's all good.
Wrong. I couldn't care less whether Steve makes money. The point is that you cited NeXT and dropping the floppy on the iMac as massive failures for Jobs - when, in fact, they were both very, very successful.
As for the NeXT employees? Many of them are multimillionaires now and very happy in their role in the new Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra
Killing off their Enterprise group just shows that Apple is well on their way to abandoning the Mac and instead focusing on cheap, disposable, gadgets as their sole reason for existance. Sad.
Based on what kind of bizarre logic?
So I guess if BMW stops selling tractor trailers that means that they must be planning to drop autos and sell only motorcycles, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by signguysigns
If Apple thinks that the Mac Mini Server can be compared to the Xserve, then they don?t have a clue what the Xserve means to the IT world. .
I guess there's no point in even looking at the rest of your post since you're so wrapped up in hatred that you can't even be bothered by the facts.
NO ONE said that the Mac Mini was a replacement for the Xserve. For SOME APPLICATIONS, the Mac Pro Server might be. But both of them are designed for use as free-standing servers and departmental servers rather than server farm applications.
Apple tried for years and apparently wasn't very successful in selling enough xserve systems to justify continued development. The fact that they dropped that product doesn't mean that they can't sell servers for other applications.
What part of 'the right tool for the job' don't you understand?
I sense a strong bit of sarcasm in that post. I believe the "bunch of fucking lunatics" he's referring to are the bulk of posters in this thread who have gone all Chicken Little on this news. I might be reading him wrong though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwatson
To my mind, the issue is that this choice speaks volumes about the maturity level of the company.
I agree. It shows a mature company that is focusing its capital on areas that are profitable, strategic parts of its long term vision.
That was your first mistake. Apple has always been about money. It's a business!
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabyte
apple cheated us, made us belive that thet care about a business they were just exploring until they truly made a hit with phones and all that crap, then abandoned us.
A wee bit melodramatic are we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabyte
everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down.
Everyone know this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabyte
apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
Probably a door that wasn't open as far as you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killabyte
apple is about to reach the crest
You could make a killing by shorting them. Go for it!
You sound thrilled! Must be happy Apple saved your effing job security. Anybody in the know knows that if Apple wanted to play the disposable server game they could.
The server business is a dump that keeps a bunch of high paid techs employed.
laugh at that!
Well, maccherry, having read a couple of your posts, I figure you're maybe 15 years old and pretty damn good on a Wii or Xbox,
but you have no understanding of business computing needs. What do you want to be when you grow up?
I sense a strong bit of sarcasm in that post. I believe the "bunch of fucking lunatics" he's referring to are the bulk of posters in this thread who have gone all Chicken Little on this news. I might be reading him wrong though.
I am sort of stunned that one of the people I was directing that towards would take it as an endorsement of his position. Maybe proximity to giant servers farms impairs one sense of sarcasm?
The next server I'm buying for work is HP Z800. I really wanted to give the Mac Pro running Bootcamp a try but this move by Apple makes the decision easy. Apple appears to have given up on professional and scientific computing, and is on its last legs in education. What a shame.
1) Anyone think Apple will use their vast resources in HW and manufacturing to build private server farms that suit their needs better at a lower cost, and/or would it behoove them to just use off the shelf products from IBM, HP, et al.?
2) Will OS X 10.6 “Lion” have a server variant? If so, will that server variant be a ‘real’ update, not just a carryover from SL with a new UI?
2) Will OS X 10.6 ?Lion? have a server variant? If so, will that server variant be a ?real? update, not just a carryover from SL with a new UI?
What is a 'real' update? From the last presentation I'd conclude that Lion is not that different from SL under the hood, mostly changes that bring the GUI closer to the iOS experience.
What is a 'real' update? From the last presentation I'd conclude that Lion is not that different from SL under the hood, mostly changes that bring the GUI closer to the iOS experience.
For a server OS, by “real” I mean new features that would behoove IT to consider the upgrade, not just a UI change which is mostly important to consumers.
For a server OS, by ?real? I mean new features that would behoove IT to consider the upgrade, not just a UI change which is mostly important to consumers.
So what features are you talking about? I am asking because the paradigm shift appears to have been SnowLeopard and Lion's main focus seems to be the adaptation of iOS features. Not sure how that would translate to a better Server experience.
So what features are you talking about? I am asking because the paradigm shift appears to have been SnowLeopard and Lion's main focus seems to be the adaptation of iOS features. Not sure how that would translate to a better Server experience.
Again, not just an update to its appearance. Note, Snow Leopard didn’t change the UI (much) but it did overhaul the entire foundation of Mac OS X. There weren’t many features that came from iOS that I recall Apple mentioning, expect for the QuickTime X framework, with a new app written specifically for SL.
My query stems from what seems like Intel’s tick/tock method being applied to Mac OS X with the underpinning in SL, and UI in Lion. If true, it could mean Mac OS X 10.7 will be named Mountain Lion and will ignore (mostly) the UI again, with focus on the underpinnings of the US, with each getting a full overhaul every 4-5 years with this tick/tock method. Seems like a viable plan to me.
If none of you work for a provider.. (which it would seem none of you do) then I can see how nobody is fully explaining this. The hardware they make (or buy) will never be visible to end users again. The age of 'on premise' technology is over. Everyone (but EVERYONE) is working on clouds. Hosted is the new premise... and he who makes hosted as seemless as buying an app in the App Store stands to make a killing.
This is leading edge thinking.. not the death of a technology. They are simply repositioning themselves to say that for those 'die hard' admins who insist on 'on premise'... they must move to the Mac Pro or Mac Mini (for workgroup servers and small offices). For the 'rest' of us (TRUE enterprises... with 500+ employees) who have never bought an xserve... what better way to provide Apple Server Services then in the cloud.
Not to mention the suite of iOS applications to remotely manage these instances.. fully integrated.
If you haven't been in touch with any of the xserve hardware team.. (and if you haven't.. WHY not?) Get on linked in for gods sake. You'll find they have NOT lost jobs.. and are slowly changing titles and being relocated. New teams are forming.
Remember this is Apple, not Microslut or Dell. This is a move to remove the floppy or to drop optical drives altogether. This is them thinking TWO moves ahead of everyone else and making deft moves to plan on a future where they can corner the market the way they have done with so many other market segments.
And if you haven't been reading the trade journals.. apple is budding in the enterprise.. not shriveling up and dying. Management of their portables is getting larger all the time, and moving to a hosted model will make it all the more attractive to IT administrators who don't want the headache of fighting the datacenter teams to install an xserve nobody knows how to manage properly.
But NO.. you guys have it all figured out and stitched up... what a snooze....I should piss off right?
If none of you work for a provider.. (which it would seem none of you do) then I can see how nobody is fully explaining this. The hardware they make (or buy) will never be visible to end users again. The age of 'on premise' technology is over. Everyone (but EVERYONE) is working on clouds. Hosted is the new premise... and he who makes hosted as seemless as buying an app in the App Store stands to make a killing.
This is leading edge thinking.. not the death of a technology. They are simply repositioning themselves to say that for those 'die hard' admins who insist on 'on premise'... they must move to the Mac Pro or Mac Mini (for workgroup servers and small offices). For the 'rest' of us (TRUE enterprises... with 500+ employees) who have never bought an xserve... what better way to provide Apple Server Services then in the cloud.
Not to mention the suite of iOS applications to remotely manage these instances.. fully integrated.
If you haven't been in touch with any of the xserve hardware team.. (and if you haven't.. WHY not?) Get on linked in for gods sake. You'll find they have NOT lost jobs.. and are slowly changing titles and being relocated. New teams are forming.
Remember this is Apple, not Microslut or Dell. This is a move to remove the floppy or to drop optical drives altogether. This is them thinking TWO moves ahead of everyone else and making deft moves to plan on a future where they can corner the market the way they have done with so many other market segments.
And if you haven't been reading the trade journals.. apple is budding in the enterprise.. not shriveling up and dying. Management of their portables is getting larger all the time, and moving to a hosted model will make it all the more attractive to IT administrators who don't want the headache of fighting the datacenter teams to install an xserve nobody knows how to manage properly.
But NO.. you guys have it all figured out and stitched up... what a snooze....I should piss off right?
Thats all well and good IF Apple will host the apps I run on my server.
What if they won't?
What if I don't want them to host my apps and data? I like Apple and all but if their cloud hosting service' is like Mobile Me, slow and unreliable at times, I'm really not interested in them hosting for me.
Comments
I know that the Mac consumer business is strong. Hoe does that re-afffirm Apple's commitment to OSX Server?
As someone who's brought Macs into their business this move is a bit unsettling.
Based on my experience with Apple...
If they were going to discontinue support for OS X Server, they would have announced it and moved on.
Apple is not sentimental or into legacy... If it it isn't going to make them money or provide a stratecic advantage, it's gone -- the sooner the better.
To the contrary, they announced alternate hardware that can run the software.
I believe that Apple can go several ways with the software:
1) Develop an iServer - Cloud Server combo for home and small business
2) License the software to non-competitive, established, server provider -- IBM and Oracle.
I think they will do both!
.
Where the hell have you and the rest of the idiots been.
Apple announced their new Mac Pro Server early this morning. http://www.apple.com/xserve/
And even AppleInsider published the story at 9:40 AM:
Apple offers new Mac Pro Server configuration to replace Xserve http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ce_xserve.html
Have you not read all the posts about the MPS _not_ being a sufficient replacement for the Xserve? Have you ever worked with one?
Apple + very modest installed user base of Xserves: robust, forward looking computer company of serious adults with a legitimate toe-hold in the enterprise and track record of excellent customer service.
Apple - very modest installed user base of Xserves: puerile toy company of capricious children who have nothing but contempt for their woefully misdirected customers and who shortly plan to cease production of everything but glorified Tamagotchi.
Christ, what a bunch of fucking lunatics.
...and yet the stock rises. Quite amazing.
Every disapproving comment on this decision by Apple seems to carry the unspoken assumption that Apple had/has a very large number of customers using, buying and asking for this product. I suspect this assumption is incorrect and, thus, the arguments built upon this edifice crumble when the truth of this assumption vanishes.
Not at all. Take a look at #223 above you. To my mind, the issue is that this choice speaks volumes about the maturity level of the company.
go ahed explore gadgets in deep but everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down. apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
microsoft decreasing, apple is about to reach the crest, welcome linux.
killabyte
for me apple was philosophy, now its just money, i used to work in macos but now i feel dissapointed. apple cheated us, made us belive that thet care about a business they were just exploring until they truly made a hit with phones and all that crap, then abandoned us.
go ahed explore gadgets in deep but everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down. apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
microsoft decreasing, apple is about to reach the crest, welcome linux.
killabyte
Did you believe enough in Apple to invest in AAPL?
They can't give you the excellent products (hardware and software) if they don't make enough profit to sustain their business goals.
... Whatever...
.
These statements are all a bit harsh.
Maybe, but they were all true, so what's your problem?
Monologue at the Genius bar: "Kowabunga!, your Ipod nano with all of your priceless personal chat history and your $1.99 toenail trimmer app in it stopped working? There, there, let's just toss it in the circular file and give you a new one. Consider yourself "customer serviced", ...and have a nice day!
Funny how the haters live in some bizarre alternate reality.
Note:
1. Apple is consistently rated #1 in customer service - by a wide margin. Hardly supports your silly contention.
2. Every iPod user I know connects it with a computer - so their data is always on the computer if the iPod goes bad.
3. As for the computer, Apple's Time Machine was one of the most successful methods for making backing up automatic and transparent to the user. Apple believes strongly in data integrity and security.
As you said, Apple will continue to offer the server on Mac Pro and Mini for small businesses, but what's the server market like for companies that do $100 million or more per year in revenues? At that point, something like IBM's AS/400 can more than do the job for in-house app development and scale up to much higher volume levels as the company grows. Or Wintel or Linux or low-end Solaris servers can do just as well at lower cost with "off-the-shelf" third party apps.
Exactly. it's just not a market that's of interest or benefits from what Apple offers.
Yes. Jobs earned millions of dollars. Not the people who worked at NeXT and bought into his BS vision and most importantly not the consumers who actually bought the machines and were then abandoned.
But hey, in your eyes as long as Steve makes money it's all good.
Wrong. I couldn't care less whether Steve makes money. The point is that you cited NeXT and dropping the floppy on the iMac as massive failures for Jobs - when, in fact, they were both very, very successful.
As for the NeXT employees? Many of them are multimillionaires now and very happy in their role in the new Apple.
Killing off their Enterprise group just shows that Apple is well on their way to abandoning the Mac and instead focusing on cheap, disposable, gadgets as their sole reason for existance. Sad.
Based on what kind of bizarre logic?
So I guess if BMW stops selling tractor trailers that means that they must be planning to drop autos and sell only motorcycles, right?
If Apple thinks that the Mac Mini Server can be compared to the Xserve, then they don?t have a clue what the Xserve means to the IT world. .
I guess there's no point in even looking at the rest of your post since you're so wrapped up in hatred that you can't even be bothered by the facts.
NO ONE said that the Mac Mini was a replacement for the Xserve. For SOME APPLICATIONS, the Mac Pro Server might be. But both of them are designed for use as free-standing servers and departmental servers rather than server farm applications.
Apple tried for years and apparently wasn't very successful in selling enough xserve systems to justify continued development. The fact that they dropped that product doesn't mean that they can't sell servers for other applications.
What part of 'the right tool for the job' don't you understand?
Not at all. Take a look at #223 above you.
I sense a strong bit of sarcasm in that post. I believe the "bunch of fucking lunatics" he's referring to are the bulk of posters in this thread who have gone all Chicken Little on this news. I might be reading him wrong though.
To my mind, the issue is that this choice speaks volumes about the maturity level of the company.
I agree. It shows a mature company that is focusing its capital on areas that are profitable, strategic parts of its long term vision.
for me apple was philosophy, now its just money,
That was your first mistake. Apple has always been about money. It's a business!
apple cheated us, made us belive that thet care about a business they were just exploring until they truly made a hit with phones and all that crap, then abandoned us.
A wee bit melodramatic are we?
everyone knows that everything that goes up some day will have to go down.
Everyone know this?
apple is closing a door and leaving it for someone else to open. if not linux who else?
Probably a door that wasn't open as far as you think.
apple is about to reach the crest
You could make a killing by shorting them. Go for it!
You sound thrilled! Must be happy Apple saved your effing job security. Anybody in the know knows that if Apple wanted to play the disposable server game they could.
The server business is a dump that keeps a bunch of high paid techs employed.
laugh at that!
Well, maccherry, having read a couple of your posts, I figure you're maybe 15 years old and pretty damn good on a Wii or Xbox,
but you have no understanding of business computing needs. What do you want to be when you grow up?
I sense a strong bit of sarcasm in that post. I believe the "bunch of fucking lunatics" he's referring to are the bulk of posters in this thread who have gone all Chicken Little on this news. I might be reading him wrong though.
I am sort of stunned that one of the people I was directing that towards would take it as an endorsement of his position. Maybe proximity to giant servers farms impairs one sense of sarcasm?
2) Will OS X 10.6 “Lion” have a server variant? If so, will that server variant be a ‘real’ update, not just a carryover from SL with a new UI?
2) Will OS X 10.6 ?Lion? have a server variant? If so, will that server variant be a ?real? update, not just a carryover from SL with a new UI?
What is a 'real' update? From the last presentation I'd conclude that Lion is not that different from SL under the hood, mostly changes that bring the GUI closer to the iOS experience.
What is a 'real' update? From the last presentation I'd conclude that Lion is not that different from SL under the hood, mostly changes that bring the GUI closer to the iOS experience.
For a server OS, by “real” I mean new features that would behoove IT to consider the upgrade, not just a UI change which is mostly important to consumers.
For a server OS, by ?real? I mean new features that would behoove IT to consider the upgrade, not just a UI change which is mostly important to consumers.
So what features are you talking about? I am asking because the paradigm shift appears to have been SnowLeopard and Lion's main focus seems to be the adaptation of iOS features. Not sure how that would translate to a better Server experience.
So what features are you talking about? I am asking because the paradigm shift appears to have been SnowLeopard and Lion's main focus seems to be the adaptation of iOS features. Not sure how that would translate to a better Server experience.
My query stems from what seems like Intel’s tick/tock method being applied to Mac OS X with the underpinning in SL, and UI in Lion. If true, it could mean Mac OS X 10.7 will be named Mountain Lion and will ignore (mostly) the UI again, with focus on the underpinnings of the US, with each getting a full overhaul every 4-5 years with this tick/tock method. Seems like a viable plan to me.
This is leading edge thinking.. not the death of a technology. They are simply repositioning themselves to say that for those 'die hard' admins who insist on 'on premise'... they must move to the Mac Pro or Mac Mini (for workgroup servers and small offices). For the 'rest' of us (TRUE enterprises... with 500+ employees) who have never bought an xserve... what better way to provide Apple Server Services then in the cloud.
Not to mention the suite of iOS applications to remotely manage these instances.. fully integrated.
If you haven't been in touch with any of the xserve hardware team.. (and if you haven't.. WHY not?) Get on linked in for gods sake. You'll find they have NOT lost jobs.. and are slowly changing titles and being relocated. New teams are forming.
Remember this is Apple, not Microslut or Dell. This is a move to remove the floppy or to drop optical drives altogether. This is them thinking TWO moves ahead of everyone else and making deft moves to plan on a future where they can corner the market the way they have done with so many other market segments.
And if you haven't been reading the trade journals.. apple is budding in the enterprise.. not shriveling up and dying. Management of their portables is getting larger all the time, and moving to a hosted model will make it all the more attractive to IT administrators who don't want the headache of fighting the datacenter teams to install an xserve nobody knows how to manage properly.
But NO.. you guys have it all figured out and stitched up... what a snooze....I should piss off right?
If none of you work for a provider.. (which it would seem none of you do) then I can see how nobody is fully explaining this. The hardware they make (or buy) will never be visible to end users again. The age of 'on premise' technology is over. Everyone (but EVERYONE) is working on clouds. Hosted is the new premise... and he who makes hosted as seemless as buying an app in the App Store stands to make a killing.
This is leading edge thinking.. not the death of a technology. They are simply repositioning themselves to say that for those 'die hard' admins who insist on 'on premise'... they must move to the Mac Pro or Mac Mini (for workgroup servers and small offices). For the 'rest' of us (TRUE enterprises... with 500+ employees) who have never bought an xserve... what better way to provide Apple Server Services then in the cloud.
Not to mention the suite of iOS applications to remotely manage these instances.. fully integrated.
If you haven't been in touch with any of the xserve hardware team.. (and if you haven't.. WHY not?) Get on linked in for gods sake. You'll find they have NOT lost jobs.. and are slowly changing titles and being relocated. New teams are forming.
Remember this is Apple, not Microslut or Dell. This is a move to remove the floppy or to drop optical drives altogether. This is them thinking TWO moves ahead of everyone else and making deft moves to plan on a future where they can corner the market the way they have done with so many other market segments.
And if you haven't been reading the trade journals.. apple is budding in the enterprise.. not shriveling up and dying. Management of their portables is getting larger all the time, and moving to a hosted model will make it all the more attractive to IT administrators who don't want the headache of fighting the datacenter teams to install an xserve nobody knows how to manage properly.
But NO.. you guys have it all figured out and stitched up... what a snooze....I should piss off right?
Thats all well and good IF Apple will host the apps I run on my server.
What if they won't?
What if I don't want them to host my apps and data? I like Apple and all but if their cloud hosting service' is like Mobile Me, slow and unreliable at times, I'm really not interested in them hosting for me.