See above. The site is about creativity and design as its main content is about a group of designers. It needs to stand out and be different which it achieves.
This is fine. But this argument only persuades designers that they should want flash.
Outdated or whatever you want to say about Flash, I think it should be a matter of choice for the consumer. This is something I don't like about Jobs and Apple. After years of nearly begging people to support Apple's products, now that they have successful products, they exclude people like this. If it weren't for Adobe (and Quark) and the printing and prepress industry, I'm not sure Apple would even be here today. Times were pretty lean in the 1990's and the only market where Apple shined was in the printing and prepress industry, which is where Adobe pretty much had a locked up market, except for Quark's domination in page layout. It just about sucked to own a Mac at that time. People used to look at me like I had 2 heads when I told them I used a Mac. Now, they've gotten all arrogant about themselves.
Jobs hating Flash is him voting for the customer, not for Apple.
Adobe and Microsoft have a habit of defending technologies AGAINST the interests of customers, to the benefit of their hegemonies.
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe. If, on the other hand, you want to develop HTML5 content, you can just open up TextEdit (or NotePad on Windows), and start hacking away. Now, if Adobe removed their license restrictions from Flash, and made it available as a free download, then they would have a level playing field from which to plead their case. As it is, Adobe are torqued because Steve Jobs, with his very terse public statements, is making it more difficult for them to sell Flash.
HTML5 is not yet fully mature, as has been discussed in various articles, so for now, it's not a significant threat to Flash. But in a couple of years, if Steve's campaign of FUD continues, and in the same period of time, Adobe doesn't work to streamline its rich media platform, Flash could be in serious trouble.
ClickToFlash is a great plugin, but probably not the best plugin to use to cast a vote against Flash. The problem with ClickToFlash is that it masquerades as Flash, and still leaves Flash running in the background. In this way, to a website owner, it still looks like their Flash content is getting hits even though you're not viewing it.
John Gruber of daringfireball.net wrote an excellent article about Flash, ClickToFlash, and how to disable Flash completely (except when you need it --Google Chrome) here:
Outdated or whatever you want to say about Flash, I think it should be a matter of choice for the consumer. This is something I don't like about Jobs and Apple.
Note1) Everyone is saying that it is a choice for the consumer to make. I beg to differ. The consumer has no say in this issue. Are there online elections taking place for people to vote on what software a particular developer should be using? Or which software a particular company should use to design its website?
Note2) Since when Flash has become the good guy in town!
Flash is just a plugin that used to be used in older days in which browsers were not strong enough to provide dynamic interface. The browser market is now mature enough to move on from such plugins. Flash may still have some uses but its role is fading.
The only way I can see Flash to survive is if Adobe launches its own Flash OS phones. Otherwise why would companies like Google/Apple/MS have to spent so much money on mobile OS development. All they have to do is to create a minisoftware that can support Flash plugin, and they are NOT doing that!
Jobs hating Flash is him voting for the customer, not for Apple.
Adobe and Microsoft have a habit of defending technologies AGAINST the interests of customers, to the benefit of their hegemonies.
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe. If, on the other hand, you want to develop HTML5 content, you can just open up TextEdit (or NotePad on Windows), and start hacking away. Now, if Adobe removed their license restrictions from Flash, and made it available as a free download, then they would have a level playing field from which to plead their case. As it is, Adobe are torqued because Steve Jobs, with his very terse public statements, is making it more difficult for them to sell Flash.
HTML5 is not yet fully mature, as has been discussed in various articles, so for now, it's not a significant threat to Flash. But in a couple of years, if Steve's campaign of FUD continues, and in the same period of time, Adobe doesn't work to streamline its rich media platform, Flash could be in serious trouble.
The world would be a better place if Adobe just shut down all mac products. Steve Jobs struts around like he is the most important person in computing and one day its going to kick him up the backside. The fact of the matter is the latest version of flash works fine on my non mac computer and is awful on my mac. Something doesn't add up here and I think it's the fact that apple won't let adobe use the appropriate APIs to make it run properly on a mac
I agree banners suck and everything but the fact remains. There is no technology that matches flash for rich web content. If there is, you will explain how it is possible to currently make a website like http://www.seecorridor.com/ without flash. This is what designers and brand managers use.
I do not have a vested interest in flash at all. I have never created any flash content in my life. I am just trying to be rational on this forum because most of you cult followers don't see the other side of the argument whatsoever.
perhaps there should not be websites like that in first place. The UI is horrible for corridor. Just because you have the freedom to make vertical text links, does not mean you should, especially for a site that is to be viewed horizontally. What is on that site, that could not be reproduced with jpgs, dhtml, css, and javascript? absolutely nothing, but guaranteed that flash file size dwarfs the html version. And for no added benefits other than the laziness to not have to css hack/optimize for the all the main browsers.
This is something no one talks about, but i am going to say it....Flash also allows talentless/hobbyist designers to create absolute foul stools and place them on the web to ruin the experience of the web for the rest of us. Design is more than flashy/crappy graphics and animation, 'cause you can. Though i will agree there is no competing program that can do what Flash does somewhat seamlessly, Actionscripting/javascripting was not originally designed/optimized to animate the horrendously large, complicated, algorithm-ed, multi-layed SVGs that non-professionals have atrociously used it for.
A professional "rich web content" experience is also about the limitations of your medium and becoming a master of the process, which includes design limitations relative to screen size, content delivery, and processing capabilities. Very few "flash" designers have every achieved this. Optimization is crucial, even with todays broadband and wifi accessible world. There is no substitution for proper planning, which also includes who will be able to access this content/how/at which speed, the lowest common denominators. The majority of the market of the personal/professional computer users are windows users with one thing in mind, price..which means cheap, which means configurations never even thought or considered. Which means Flash from a professional content designer's perspective leaves too many unknowns how it will run. Trust me, I have professional used, taught, and tutored flash since the beginning, i would test the same project on every computer I could get my hands on, offline and online and the experience was similar but different each time. There is no telling how it will run from computer to computer. Animation lag, is the best you can hope for.
Since Adobe has purchased macromedia, it has tried to merge the capabilities of Director and try to merge it with Flash...that was a bad idea from the start. Even before the purchase, trying to encode video? Seriously? Leave that to big boys, to dedicated professional video applications. Adobe has never gotten it right in that department either. Now the bulk of flash-designed content is annoying ads and porn, most professional designers abandoned it for websites a long time ago.
There I said...and with all that said, I hope to see the millions of poorly designed/optimized flash sites to quietly disappear into the night, so I can surf without the worry that flash is going to gain access or crash my browser/system
9. May 27, 2010 11:05 AM in response to: mac__user
Re: High CPU usage on sites with flash content
Here's what fixed the problem for me. In the end, Flash wasn't the culprit (totally).
My laptop is a Core 2 duo and now 3 years old. I never thought that dust will go in through the CPU Fan vent and will accumulate there, causing the fan to work inefficiently and not cooling the CPU as much as required. I read on some Forums that cleaning this dust and taking out the congestion on the Fan solved their problem of high CPU. First I couldn't believe that. Yesterday I thought I will give it a try. I took my Vaccum Cleaner and used it across the vents. I couldn't believe the amount of dust came of out that thing. I cleaned it all up. Then I prayed and turned on my machine. Anyway I wanted to watch the last episode of LOST, so I thought that testing this fix on Hulu would be the best test. I watched the whole episode of length 1:45 mins with only few hickups. It was unbelievable. Now my machine is behaving like what a Core 2 duo should.
So, my advice is that. If your desktop/laptop is 1-2 years or more old, then the CPU fan definitely needs some cleaning. It made difference for me, no kidding. Just take that Vaccum Cleaner and fix it.
Hope this helps some of you!
I assure you it isn't dust inside my laptop. In fact, when I read that, I didn't beliveve a goddamned word of it. Dust? Dafuck are they talking about? I'm not talking about dust. When Flash ads are run, the CPU pegs, PEGS at 100% and pretty soon, the fan starts to blow like a leaf blower. This was my old Pentium 4 Windoze XP laptop. It was single core, so a single runaway thread could do that. The whole Firefox app would become extremely unresponsive. I would have to force quit the process. Then I went to the Mozilla forums (thinking it was the browser) and other people were seeing this problem. Someone from Mozilla identified it as a problem with the Flash plugin. The forum members suggested a no-Flash plugin. It worked. That's the solution, not a vacuum cleaner.
I assure you it isn't dust inside my laptop. In fact, when I read that, I didn't beliveve a goddamned word of it. Dust? Dafuck are they talking about? I'm not talking about dust. When Flash ads are run, the CPU pegs, PEGS at 100% and pretty soon, the fan starts to blow like a leaf blower. This was my old Pentium 4 Windoze XP laptop. It was single core, so a single runaway thread could do that. The whole Firefox app would become extremely unresponsive. I would have to force quit the process. Then I went to the Mozilla forums (thinking it was the browser) and other people were seeing this problem. Someone from Mozilla identified it as a problem with the Flash plugin. The forum members suggested a no-Flash plugin. It worked. That's the solution, not a vacuum cleaner.
hmmmm I think nvidia2008 only posted a humorous response to the Flash problem. I have been laughing at it since I read it 10min ago
Resolving Flash CPU usage by vacuum cleaner is equivalent to blaming Steve Jobs for this:
The world would be a better place if Adobe just shut down all mac products. Steve Jobs struts around like he is the most important person in computing and one day its going to kick him up the backside. The fact of the matter is the latest version of flash works fine on my non mac computer and is awful on my mac. Something doesn't add up here and I think it's the fact that apple won't let adobe use the appropriate APIs to make it run properly on a mac
It really isn't you know. There's no Special API to make Flash not suck. You think games and other visual software are sprinkled with some magical Apple pixie dust which everyone but Adobe has access to?
Outdated or whatever you want to say about Flash, I think it should be a matter of choice for the consumer. This is something I don't like about Jobs and Apple. After years of nearly begging people to support Apple's products, now that they have successful products, they exclude people like this. If it weren't for Adobe (and Quark) and the printing and prepress industry, I'm not sure Apple would even be here today. Times were pretty lean in the 1990's and the only market where Apple shined was in the printing and prepress industry, which is where Adobe pretty much had a locked up market, except for Quark's domination in page layout. It just about sucked to own a Mac at that time. People used to look at me like I had 2 heads when I told them I used a Mac. Now, they've gotten all arrogant about themselves.
But you forget that Adobe only recently acquired Flash. This "Apple hates Adobe" story isn't true. Do you really think Steve Jobs doesn't know Apples history with Adobe? He mentioned it in his "Thoughts on Flash" open letter. The not-so-sensationalist FACTS are that Apple has taken a "no external plugins" stance for their mobile browser. It's not aimed at Adobe anymore than it's aimed at Microsoft. I will dismiss the presumption of "arrogance" as the result of an incomplete grasp of the facts and believing in the blogosphere's false narrative. A narrative that Adobe's PR is gleefully perpetuating (for obvious reasons). Steve Jobs is more control freak than arrogant, or did you not pay attention to the dozens of biographical books and articles about him?
When it comes to Flash vs. Apple, this site is like watching Fox News for political information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe.
Not even slightly true. The whole Flex API is open source. You can download it for free on Adobe's site and program with an open source environment like Eclipse. Frankly, I find it easier than Adobe's own options for creating Flash content.
Flash flourished in the past because Javascript was designed by a committee of squabbling rivals and was inconsistant for both the author and end-user. Javascript was simply not suitable for creating the media web we now know. Flash was.
HTML5 is also being designed by committee and I'm certain will have the same issues. It may just about catch up with Flash from 5 years ago but it's not going anywhere new fast. The new stuff will again be left to companies who have tight control. That may be Flash or it may be something like Unity. It wont be HTML5. Who knows this truth better than anyone else? Apple, the king of control.
Comments
See above. The site is about creativity and design as its main content is about a group of designers. It needs to stand out and be different which it achieves.
This is fine. But this argument only persuades designers that they should want flash.
Jobs hating Flash is him voting for the customer, not for Apple.
Adobe and Microsoft have a habit of defending technologies AGAINST the interests of customers, to the benefit of their hegemonies.
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe. If, on the other hand, you want to develop HTML5 content, you can just open up TextEdit (or NotePad on Windows), and start hacking away. Now, if Adobe removed their license restrictions from Flash, and made it available as a free download, then they would have a level playing field from which to plead their case. As it is, Adobe are torqued because Steve Jobs, with his very terse public statements, is making it more difficult for them to sell Flash.
HTML5 is not yet fully mature, as has been discussed in various articles, so for now, it's not a significant threat to Flash. But in a couple of years, if Steve's campaign of FUD continues, and in the same period of time, Adobe doesn't work to streamline its rich media platform, Flash could be in serious trouble.
ClickToFlash is a great plugin, but probably not the best plugin to use to cast a vote against Flash. The problem with ClickToFlash is that it masquerades as Flash, and still leaves Flash running in the background. In this way, to a website owner, it still looks like their Flash content is getting hits even though you're not viewing it.
John Gruber of daringfireball.net wrote an excellent article about Flash, ClickToFlash, and how to disable Flash completely (except when you need it --Google Chrome) here:
http://daringfireball.net/2010/11/fl..._google_chrome
This looks like a better solution for Chrome users.
It should hit release in 6 to 12 weeks.
Outdated or whatever you want to say about Flash, I think it should be a matter of choice for the consumer. This is something I don't like about Jobs and Apple.
Note1) Everyone is saying that it is a choice for the consumer to make. I beg to differ. The consumer has no say in this issue. Are there online elections taking place for people to vote on what software a particular developer should be using? Or which software a particular company should use to design its website?
Note2) Since when Flash has become the good guy in town!
Flash is just a plugin that used to be used in older days in which browsers were not strong enough to provide dynamic interface. The browser market is now mature enough to move on from such plugins. Flash may still have some uses but its role is fading.
The only way I can see Flash to survive is if Adobe launches its own Flash OS phones. Otherwise why would companies like Google/Apple/MS have to spent so much money on mobile OS development. All they have to do is to create a minisoftware that can support Flash plugin, and they are NOT doing that!
Jobs hating Flash is him voting for the customer, not for Apple.
Adobe and Microsoft have a habit of defending technologies AGAINST the interests of customers, to the benefit of their hegemonies.
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe. If, on the other hand, you want to develop HTML5 content, you can just open up TextEdit (or NotePad on Windows), and start hacking away. Now, if Adobe removed their license restrictions from Flash, and made it available as a free download, then they would have a level playing field from which to plead their case. As it is, Adobe are torqued because Steve Jobs, with his very terse public statements, is making it more difficult for them to sell Flash.
HTML5 is not yet fully mature, as has been discussed in various articles, so for now, it's not a significant threat to Flash. But in a couple of years, if Steve's campaign of FUD continues, and in the same period of time, Adobe doesn't work to streamline its rich media platform, Flash could be in serious trouble.
I agree banners suck and everything but the fact remains. There is no technology that matches flash for rich web content. If there is, you will explain how it is possible to currently make a website like http://www.seecorridor.com/ without flash. This is what designers and brand managers use.
I do not have a vested interest in flash at all. I have never created any flash content in my life. I am just trying to be rational on this forum because most of you cult followers don't see the other side of the argument whatsoever.
perhaps there should not be websites like that in first place. The UI is horrible for corridor. Just because you have the freedom to make vertical text links, does not mean you should, especially for a site that is to be viewed horizontally. What is on that site, that could not be reproduced with jpgs, dhtml, css, and javascript? absolutely nothing, but guaranteed that flash file size dwarfs the html version. And for no added benefits other than the laziness to not have to css hack/optimize for the all the main browsers.
This is something no one talks about, but i am going to say it....Flash also allows talentless/hobbyist designers to create absolute foul stools and place them on the web to ruin the experience of the web for the rest of us. Design is more than flashy/crappy graphics and animation, 'cause you can. Though i will agree there is no competing program that can do what Flash does somewhat seamlessly, Actionscripting/javascripting was not originally designed/optimized to animate the horrendously large, complicated, algorithm-ed, multi-layed SVGs that non-professionals have atrociously used it for.
A professional "rich web content" experience is also about the limitations of your medium and becoming a master of the process, which includes design limitations relative to screen size, content delivery, and processing capabilities. Very few "flash" designers have every achieved this. Optimization is crucial, even with todays broadband and wifi accessible world. There is no substitution for proper planning, which also includes who will be able to access this content/how/at which speed, the lowest common denominators. The majority of the market of the personal/professional computer users are windows users with one thing in mind, price..which means cheap, which means configurations never even thought or considered. Which means Flash from a professional content designer's perspective leaves too many unknowns how it will run. Trust me, I have professional used, taught, and tutored flash since the beginning, i would test the same project on every computer I could get my hands on, offline and online and the experience was similar but different each time. There is no telling how it will run from computer to computer. Animation lag, is the best you can hope for.
Since Adobe has purchased macromedia, it has tried to merge the capabilities of Director and try to merge it with Flash...that was a bad idea from the start. Even before the purchase, trying to encode video? Seriously? Leave that to big boys, to dedicated professional video applications. Adobe has never gotten it right in that department either. Now the bulk of flash-designed content is annoying ads and porn, most professional designers abandoned it for websites a long time ago.
There I said...and with all that said, I hope to see the millions of poorly designed/optimized flash sites to quietly disappear into the night, so I can surf without the worry that flash is going to gain access or crash my browser/system
Flash makes it really easy to build something akin to an App Store, but one where Apple doesn't get 30%.
Can it?
Note1) why hasn't it happen yet?
Note2) if something can make money, everyone would use it to make more money! Apple would use it to make more money as well.
Note3) The Adobe Air marketplace has been around for so long! How many apps have you bought/developed for Adobe Air?
But... But... This user found the solution!
9. May 27, 2010 11:05 AM in response to: mac__user
Re: High CPU usage on sites with flash content
Here's what fixed the problem for me. In the end, Flash wasn't the culprit (totally).
My laptop is a Core 2 duo and now 3 years old. I never thought that dust will go in through the CPU Fan vent and will accumulate there, causing the fan to work inefficiently and not cooling the CPU as much as required. I read on some Forums that cleaning this dust and taking out the congestion on the Fan solved their problem of high CPU. First I couldn't believe that. Yesterday I thought I will give it a try. I took my Vaccum Cleaner and used it across the vents. I couldn't believe the amount of dust came of out that thing. I cleaned it all up. Then I prayed and turned on my machine. Anyway I wanted to watch the last episode of LOST, so I thought that testing this fix on Hulu would be the best test. I watched the whole episode of length 1:45 mins with only few hickups. It was unbelievable. Now my machine is behaving like what a Core 2 duo should.
So, my advice is that. If your desktop/laptop is 1-2 years or more old, then the CPU fan definitely needs some cleaning. It made difference for me, no kidding. Just take that Vaccum Cleaner and fix it.
Hope this helps some of you!
I assure you it isn't dust inside my laptop. In fact, when I read that, I didn't beliveve a goddamned word of it. Dust? Dafuck are they talking about? I'm not talking about dust. When Flash ads are run, the CPU pegs, PEGS at 100% and pretty soon, the fan starts to blow like a leaf blower. This was my old Pentium 4 Windoze XP laptop. It was single core, so a single runaway thread could do that. The whole Firefox app would become extremely unresponsive. I would have to force quit the process. Then I went to the Mozilla forums (thinking it was the browser) and other people were seeing this problem. Someone from Mozilla identified it as a problem with the Flash plugin. The forum members suggested a no-Flash plugin. It worked. That's the solution, not a vacuum cleaner.
I assure you it isn't dust inside my laptop. In fact, when I read that, I didn't beliveve a goddamned word of it. Dust? Dafuck are they talking about? I'm not talking about dust. When Flash ads are run, the CPU pegs, PEGS at 100% and pretty soon, the fan starts to blow like a leaf blower. This was my old Pentium 4 Windoze XP laptop. It was single core, so a single runaway thread could do that. The whole Firefox app would become extremely unresponsive. I would have to force quit the process. Then I went to the Mozilla forums (thinking it was the browser) and other people were seeing this problem. Someone from Mozilla identified it as a problem with the Flash plugin. The forum members suggested a no-Flash plugin. It worked. That's the solution, not a vacuum cleaner.
hmmmm I think nvidia2008 only posted a humorous response to the Flash problem. I have been laughing at it since I read it 10min ago
Resolving Flash CPU usage by vacuum cleaner is equivalent to blaming Steve Jobs for this:
Daily Mail Article
No, because such things are prohibited by the iOS dev agreement.
I think the issue is that it is allowed and can be done for other environments! Why hasn't it been done yet?
We can blame iOS terms of service for this particular case but what about other systems?
The world would be a better place if Adobe just shut down all mac products. Steve Jobs struts around like he is the most important person in computing and one day its going to kick him up the backside. The fact of the matter is the latest version of flash works fine on my non mac computer and is awful on my mac. Something doesn't add up here and I think it's the fact that apple won't let adobe use the appropriate APIs to make it run properly on a mac
It really isn't you know. There's no Special API to make Flash not suck. You think games and other visual software are sprinkled with some magical Apple pixie dust which everyone but Adobe has access to?
Outdated or whatever you want to say about Flash, I think it should be a matter of choice for the consumer. This is something I don't like about Jobs and Apple. After years of nearly begging people to support Apple's products, now that they have successful products, they exclude people like this. If it weren't for Adobe (and Quark) and the printing and prepress industry, I'm not sure Apple would even be here today. Times were pretty lean in the 1990's and the only market where Apple shined was in the printing and prepress industry, which is where Adobe pretty much had a locked up market, except for Quark's domination in page layout. It just about sucked to own a Mac at that time. People used to look at me like I had 2 heads when I told them I used a Mac. Now, they've gotten all arrogant about themselves.
But you forget that Adobe only recently acquired Flash. This "Apple hates Adobe" story isn't true. Do you really think Steve Jobs doesn't know Apples history with Adobe? He mentioned it in his "Thoughts on Flash" open letter. The not-so-sensationalist FACTS are that Apple has taken a "no external plugins" stance for their mobile browser. It's not aimed at Adobe anymore than it's aimed at Microsoft. I will dismiss the presumption of "arrogance" as the result of an incomplete grasp of the facts and believing in the blogosphere's false narrative. A narrative that Adobe's PR is gleefully perpetuating (for obvious reasons). Steve Jobs is more control freak than arrogant, or did you not pay attention to the dozens of biographical books and articles about him?
I think the issue is that it is allowed and can be done for other environments! Why hasn't it been done yet?
We can blame iOS terms of service for this particular case but what about other systems?
If you Google "Flash Games" or "Flash Arcade" you'll get a bunch of websites and thousands of games. Some are paid, most are ad supported.
You'll even find a lot of free games that have paid counterparts in the App Store.
One fundamental difference between Flash and HTML5 which supports your point is that if you want to develop Flash content, the first thing you have to do is purchase Flash (either alone, or as part of a CS package) from Adobe.
Not even slightly true. The whole Flex API is open source. You can download it for free on Adobe's site and program with an open source environment like Eclipse. Frankly, I find it easier than Adobe's own options for creating Flash content.
Flash flourished in the past because Javascript was designed by a committee of squabbling rivals and was inconsistant for both the author and end-user. Javascript was simply not suitable for creating the media web we now know. Flash was.
HTML5 is also being designed by committee and I'm certain will have the same issues. It may just about catch up with Flash from 5 years ago but it's not going anywhere new fast. The new stuff will again be left to companies who have tight control. That may be Flash or it may be something like Unity. It wont be HTML5. Who knows this truth better than anyone else? Apple, the king of control.