Briefly: Windows Phone 7 US launch, Mac OS X 10.6.5 beta, Adobe Flash defended

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  • Reply 81 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by delany View Post


    I understand your confusion - Adobe hasn't helped by introducing these two names. For the purposes of an end user, they are the same thing. Both are AS3 at the core and, as the post above points out, the end point is the Flash stuff you see on the internet.



    Well, as I understand it, Flex can be used to create Flash content or open, standards-based content. If Flex is used for the latter, no problem. If used to create Flash content, problem, as far as Steve/Apple is concerned.



    You did correct one thing for me—the fact that the Flex API can be downloaded free. So, in a way, Adobe doesn't really need to get into a hissyfit about this, because Flex's free-downloadable SDK makes Steve's comments about Flash kind of a non-issue, if Adobe was concerned about lost sales of Flash.
  • Reply 82 of 120
    tjwtjw Posts: 216member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Well, actually, although I would disagree that he struts, right now, he is.



    bollocks. He has absolutely nothing to do with enterprise, he is worthless there. If he and apple left computing the effect would be significantly less if Larry Ellison and Oracle left computing.
  • Reply 83 of 120
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Actually, I think it would be a totally fair comparison to redesign a Flash site to use the HTML5 functionality available today and compare both the resources required to render/run it and the usability. Not only will the resources required be less, the site is likely to be far better in terms of delivering it's message and in usability than the Flash site.



    I don't think it is possible to do that, and as far as I know no one has tried to make an exact pixel for pixel duplication for comparison sake, which is why the video example I referred to is about as close as you can get but still says nothing about the unused capabilities of Flash. Flash is complete overkill for simply displaying video.



    Anyway as soon as you bring subjective design style into the argument the scientific control is over.
  • Reply 84 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't think it is possible to do that, and as far as I know no one has tried to make an exact pixel for pixel duplication for comparison sake, which is why the video example I referred to is about as close as you can get but still says nothing about the unused capabilities of Flash. Flash is complete overkill for simply displaying video.



    Anyway as soon as you bring subjective design style into the argument the scientific control is over.



    Except that the whole point is that it's that "subjective design style" that makes or breaks a site, and it's that "subjective design style" of every Flash site I've ever seen that makes those sites largely useless. Flash, quite simply, is the wrong tool for the web. If you aren't using it to make bad websites, then you can just as easily dispense with it and make a good website with the HTML available today. Converting a Flash website to an HMTL website by making, "an exact pixel for pixel duplication," is exactly the wrong thing to do. The right thing to do is to redesign the site so it doesn't need Flash and so that it's more useable than the Flash site it replaces. Flash adds nothing of value to the websites it is used on. (The only thing worse than an all Flash site is a site that's half Flash and half PDF, like so many of the bad restaurant websites we see out there: Flash animations that are pointless, combined with menus in PDF.)
  • Reply 85 of 120
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Except that the whole point is that it's that "subjective design style" that makes or breaks a site, and it's that "subjective design style" of every Flash site I've ever seen that makes those sites largely useless. Flash, quite simply, is the wrong tool for the web. If you aren't using it to make bad websites, then you can just as easily dispense with it and make a good website with the HTML available today. Converting a Flash website to an HMTL website by making, "an exact pixel for pixel duplication," is exactly the wrong thing to do. The right thing to do is to redesign the site so it doesn't need Flash and so that it's more useable than the Flash site it replaces. Flash adds nothing of value to the websites it is used on. (The only thing worse than an all Flash site is a site that's half Flash and half PDF.)



    I totally agree with you, however it is the fact that Flash makes it so easy to to output crap that the large percentage of Flash on the web is just that - crap. These aren't designers with any training or artistic skill, it is just; oooh, look shiny moving pinwheels. It's crap. Once HTML5 is as easy with slick development tools, there will be more crap.
  • Reply 86 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post


    Well, as I understand it, Flex can be used to create Flash content or open, standards-based content. If Flex is used for the latter, no problem. If used to create Flash content, problem, as far as Steve/Apple is concerned.



    No. You're confusing authoring tools and SDKs. Flex 4 is an AS3 SDK. There are slightly difference libraries compared to the AS3 SDK included with the authoring tool called 'Flash CS5' the but it's really about authoring style. The end point is still Flash.



    Continuing my comparison to Fox news when it comes to Flash vs. Apple, Apple calling for 'open, standards-based content' works like Fox's calls for things like 'a return to real American values' or such nonsense. It sounds like something everyone should get behind but it doesn't deal in specifics and ignores any subtleties as to what the best direction actually is.
  • Reply 87 of 120
    Windows Phone launch only makes 1/3 of a news article
  • Reply 88 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I totally agree with you, however it is the fact that Flash makes it so easy to to output crap that the large percentage of Flash on the web is just that - crap. These aren't designers with any training or artistic skill, it is just; oooh, look shiny moving pinwheels. It's crap. Once HTML5 is as easy with slick development tools, there will be more crap.



    Yes and no. One of the problems with Flash is that when one decides to use it to build a website (as opposed to just displaying some video, or it's original, defensible purpose of making small animations to embed in web pages) its very nature encourages the designer/developer to make a site that is all bells and whistles, all flash, if you will. HTML on the other hand, by its nature, encourages more structure and thought. While it will be possible to build bad websites with HTML5 (why not, it's possible to build bad websites with HTML4, or 3.2, or 2.0, ...), it's not the case that the very medium itself encourages you to do so.
  • Reply 89 of 120
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    HTML on the other hand, by its nature, encourages more structure and thought.



    Quite a bit more intelligence as well since hand coding js and debugging it is not a trivial undertaking, however I am certain that tools are on the horizon to make it possible for the same amateur designers to jump on the HTML5 bandwagon and continue to produce their horrible animations. There will always be a disproportionate amount of bad to good when it comes to design. Always has been, always will be.
  • Reply 90 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Quite a bit more intelligence as well since hand coding js and debugging it is not a trivial undertaking, however I am certain that tools are on the horizon to make it possible for the same amateur designers to jump on the HTML5 bandwagon and continue to produce their horrible animations. There will always be a disproportionate amount of bad to good when it comes to design. Always has been, always will be.



    I've seen plenty of great HTML websites. I've yet to see a good Flash website.
  • Reply 91 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post


    You did correct one thing for me?the fact that the Flex API can be downloaded free. So, in a way, Adobe doesn't really need to get into a hissyfit about this, because Flex's free-downloadable SDK makes Steve's comments about Flash kind of a non-issue, if Adobe was concerned about lost sales of Flash.



    Or you could look at it that Jobs is trying to pull the wool over your eyes for his own reasons and Flash/Flex is a lot more open and standard than he wants you to know:



    - It's open source and free.

    - It's as close to a cross browser standard as you can get.

    - It has a set of standard front-end widgets for user interface consistency. Granted, as with any SDK, these are not used in your standard games and animated menus (look at App Store games - neither are Apple's iOS widgets) - but they are there and are used extensively in real RIA. HTML5 doesn't and won't have this.



    The only issue you could have with Flash is that it is controlled by one company. Based on historical attempts with HTML and Javascript, I say this is a good thing. Apple by all rights should agree since most of its success is based on the principle of a single company controlling as much of the experience as possible.
  • Reply 92 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    ... it is meant to be something creative that stands out at it certainly does that.



    ...like Bjork...or Amy Winehouse...or RuPaul.



    Yeah, I see what you mean.
  • Reply 93 of 120
    cimcim Posts: 197member
    If you disable Flash for a few days, you’ll see that it’s mostly used for ads and very few videos now.



    Unless you play web games, catch up on free TV episodes on your computer, or just like animated ads, there’s no reason to keep Flash enabled—especially when you consider all the downsides.



    Go Flash-free!
  • Reply 94 of 120
    grkinggrking Posts: 533member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nealg View Post


    That the windows phone Was already on sale in Europe. If the sales had been great, I am sure the news would have been full of stories about this. With some stores only having a couple of units and not selling out, the response would seem to be somewhat tepid. I wonder how sales were at the msft stores. I am also wondering what the first production run was like.



    The ad campaign for the new phone seems to be kicking into high gear. The ads are cute but don't show how the phone works. I still don't like the asymmetry and the tile concept but it is bothering me less than it used to.



    No it would not necessarily have been in the news, as the media do not particularly cover MS, unless it is negative. For example, a couple of weeks ago, both Apple and MS released their quarterly numbers. MS actually had a larger profit than Apple, but Apple got almost all of the coverage.



    There were, however, multiple stories on the net indicating that demand has outstripped a constrained supply in Europe, and TG Daily is reporting today that the HTC HD7 is already sold out at T-Mobile here in America. FWIW, and anecdotal evidence is not worth much, I went to get a Focus for my wife at the local ATT store, and they sold out, but they called and the ATT store in the Mall, and they had several left.



    Lastly, the tech press is lazy. It is easy to say the launch was not successful because there were no lines and be done with it. By this logic, Android is an abject failure, even though more phones are sold, because there are no lines for android phones.



    The thing is, Apple's business model is explicitly designed to create lines and hence good press (1 model, released once a year, and at initial release, only available at the Apple store (or pre-order)).



    However, the other manufacturers have multiple models, updated several times a year, and released at multiple locations, all of which mitigate against long lines because there is no pent up demand.
  • Reply 95 of 120
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    I've seen plenty of great HTML websites. I've yet to see a good Flash website.



    Good, bad, interesting, whatever... I know you won't do it, but you might look at Adobe site of the day page. They usually have some very unique stuff on there.
  • Reply 96 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by delany View Post


    Or you could look at it that Jobs is trying to pull the wool over your eyes for his own reasons and Flash/Flex is a lot more open and standard than he wants you to know:



    - It's open source and free.

    - It's as close to a cross browser standard as you can get.



    .



    you are sure about that? Free, when has authoring .fla content every been free? Has Adobe been giving out copies of Flash for free? How would you charge someone that visits your site to view your flash content? oh right...it's called a porn hub.



    I am not sure how you can call flash in any way open-source.....
  • Reply 97 of 120
    ibillibill Posts: 400member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    drivel redacted



    Enough with the 'saint jobs' nonsense already.



    Ignore.
  • Reply 98 of 120
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 99 of 120
    mgl323mgl323 Posts: 247member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    But... But... This user found the solution!





    9. May 27, 2010 11:05 AM in response to: mac__user

    Re: High CPU usage on sites with flash content

    Here's what fixed the problem for me. In the end, Flash wasn't the culprit (totally).



    My laptop is a Core 2 duo and now 3 years old. I never thought that dust will go in through the CPU Fan vent and will accumulate there, causing the fan to work inefficiently and not cooling the CPU as much as required. I read on some Forums that cleaning this dust and taking out the congestion on the Fan solved their problem of high CPU. First I couldn't believe that. Yesterday I thought I will give it a try. I took my Vaccum Cleaner and used it across the vents. I couldn't believe the amount of dust came of out that thing. I cleaned it all up. Then I prayed and turned on my machine. Anyway I wanted to watch the last episode of LOST, so I thought that testing this fix on Hulu would be the best test. I watched the whole episode of length 1:45 mins with only few hickups. It was unbelievable. Now my machine is behaving like what a Core 2 duo should.



    So, my advice is that. If your desktop/laptop is 1-2 years or more old, then the CPU fan definitely needs some cleaning. It made difference for me, no kidding. Just take that Vaccum Cleaner and fix it.



    Hope this helps some of you!




    It may have worked for him, but my PC/laptop is only few months old and whenever I visit a flash site such as Youtube or whatever, my fans kick into overdrive mode and my CPU goes up around 80%. My laptop gets hot and that ain't good for my manly parts whenever I have my laptop on my lap. (see article)



    http://www.bgr.com/2010/11/08/gentle...from-your-lap/
  • Reply 100 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leafy View Post


    Does Jobs hate Flash? I think he does, but does he hate Adobe? I don't know. Like you said, Adobe can dominate the HTML5 creation tools market, but they must act quickly instead of taking rounds after rounds of flash-bashing.



    buy check the Apple/Adobe HIStory before you guys come on here attacking father Jobs ;

    rewind the tech tapes and lQQk for yourself- back in the day (1997) when APPLE needed ADOBE to assist and agree to move the technology forward and asked that developers



    (repost)



    I'm happy at least Apple has the balls to stand up against the shoddy offering from Adobe. I used to be a massive fan of Adobe through the 1990s during the early 2000s - Photoshop and Illustrator were really solid, effective pieces of software.



    Fast forward ten years and way too many acquisitions, and the company has turned to utter garbabe;



    - Flash on OSX. Even the newest version goes routinely to 80% CPU even on my cutting edge MacBook Pro. Flash videos are the only thing to trigger a kernel panic on my Mac (the reboot now screen)



    - The worst application updater in the industry. The application updater is so broken it can't even update itself



    - The most unintuitive corporate purchase system I've ever encountered. I even wrote a long feedback detailing easy fixes to make it more usable with little to no effort. No one ever replied - not to speak of improving.



    - Terribly sluggish applications on Mac - Photoshop and Illustrator. Both have completely half-hearted, bolted-on executions for key functions - such as extracting on Photoshop.



    The worst thing is that I'm trapped with Adobe - there is no credible alternatives on the market



    The truth is that it?s Adobe?s fault there?s no Flash on the majority of mobiles, because the company was completely happy just misleading the world of pundits while talking instead of doing. Well it?s not 2007 anymore, it?s 2010, and that?s three years of work that everyone else has put into HTML5.



    Adobe hasn?t done anything to earn the rights to cram the Internet back into the Flash box it likes to sit upon as it collects taxes from those creating content that only plays back via Adobe?s own players. Adobe never been on top of things in the mobile world, and the desktop version is not exactly doing all that much anymore either. As companies shift their resources from everything Flash to HTML5, Adobe?s desktop monopoly over interactive content will rapidly erode. It?s not Apple?s fault that?s happening, it?s Adobe?s. and if you rewind further back you will see that when APPLE asked Adobe to make the ADOBE programs with Cocoa to transition to MAC OS X from OS system 9.2 ADOBE REFUSED and the developer community followed their lead and APPLE was basically getting screwed by ADOBE so now we are HERE in 2010 and lQQk who's calling the shots... HAHAHAHAHA
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