RIM's PlayBook will take on Apple's iPad with a price under $500

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  • Reply 101 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    iPad fits in lab coats (with stethoscope even):







    http://www.imedicalapps.com/2010/04/...ical-care-use/



    It's even a selling point:



    http://webmedbooks.com/webmedbooks/c...0-61960A87BBEF



    A 7" device loses that as a unique selling point...although it will fit in more pockets than the iPad will.
  • Reply 102 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    iPad fits in lab coats (with stethoscope even):







    http://www.imedicalapps.com/2010/04/...ical-care-use/



    It's even a selling point:



    http://webmedbooks.com/webmedbooks/c...0-61960A87BBEF



    A 7" device loses that as a unique selling point...although it will fit in more pockets than the iPad will.



    Great! Thanks for the links -- i searched a few weeks ago & found nothing!





    Just found this:



    http://www.uniformsandscrub.com/thum...deep=1&cid=481



    Got any links for scrubs?



    .
  • Reply 103 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    The apps are running live, not suspended. What you see is a "live view" of what the app is doing at that very second, not a screen capture.



    There were 6 apps running (not including the HD video player) --- photo app, web browser, SAP cockpit, SAP, salesforce chatter app, powerpoint app.



    "Subtle" on a pre-release alpha software --- that's pretty good. And it's not native apps yet.



    It is a wifi connection in a public setting --- remember even Steve Jobs tell people to stop using the wifi when he demo'ed.



    What were the apps doing? Chat, SAP -- receiving notifications, but not doing anything with them -- big deal!



    Movie Player, PowerPoint, Photos, browser -- just what is accomplished by running these in the background?



    As I said: Nice demo -- of little real value!



    .
  • Reply 104 of 132
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    What were the apps doing? Chat, SAP -- receiving notifications, but not doing anything with them -- big deal!



    Movie Player, PowerPoint, Photos, browser -- just what is accomplished by running these in the background?



    As I said: Nice demo -- of little real value!



    .



    It doesn't matter whether the apps are doing much or not. What it matters is that they are willing to demo an alpha version of their OS with 6-7 apps running publicly on stage.



    These are AIR apps --- which Steve Jobs thinks have no place in embedded devices.



    And all you can complain about is --- "subtle" UI lags. I think that RIM just show the real value of their new OS.
  • Reply 105 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    It doesn't matter whether the apps are doing much or not. What it matters is that they are willing to demo an alpha version of their OS with 6-7 apps running publicly on stage.



    These are AIR apps --- which Steve Jobs thinks have no place in embedded devices.



    And all you can complain about is --- "subtle" UI lags. I think that RIM just show the real value of their new OS.





    This is the demo they should have done at the announcement event -- alpha has its place.



    AIR apps -- are the trying to sell a solution or an Adobe interpreter/development platform?



    Gesture detection/resolution is something you begin with -- not something you add at the end.



    The co-ceo seemed enthralled that he could select tiny links -- Pyrric Victory. Why not just pinch zoom and make the controls bigger.



    Fair enough, though -- we'll see how the customers like the PlayBook solution vs the competition.



    .
  • Reply 106 of 132
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Gesture detection/resolution is something you begin with -- not something you add at the end.



    The co-ceo seemed enthralled that he could select tiny links -- Pyrric Victory. Why not just pinch zoom and make the controls bigger.



    Fair enough, though -- we'll see how the customers like the PlayBook solution vs the competition.



    .



    No, the kernel is the first thing you have to do --- right. Gesture detection is relatively easier to add later.



    It is much harder for Apple to add --- say full multi-tasking --- into the IOS later on.



    The only pyrric victory I see is yours --- like complaining about subtle UI lags on a resource constrained embedded device running 6-7 apps at the same time.
  • Reply 107 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    No, the kernel is the first thing you have to do --- right. Gesture detection is relatively easier to add later.



    It is much harder for Apple to add --- say full multi-tasking --- into the IOS later on.



    The only pyrric victory I see is yours --- like complaining about subtle UI lags on a resource constrained embedded device running 6-7 apps at the same time.



    iOS (OS X) has always had full multi-tasking -- it's Unix-based, as is QNX. What Apple has done is limit 3rd-party multi-tasking. It can relax this restriction at any time when the situation justifies it -- running bg movies and presos excepted.



    OK! i'll make a prediction based on what I know about RIM, the timing, the competition, and what I see in this PlayBook product.



    It will be released in March 2011 with lots of promo and very poor reviews,



    It will sell less than 1 million units in CY 2011 -- as presently priced and configured.



    It will be a failure in a burgeoning market for tablets.



    Specs don't sell -- solutions do!



    .
  • Reply 108 of 132
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Specs don't sell -- solutions do!



    Actually, fluff sells.
  • Reply 109 of 132
    wovelwovel Posts: 956member
    Well I had a half dozen replies. Then I watched that demo video. RIP RIM, you just made something no one at all will ever care about.
  • Reply 110 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    Actually, fluff sells.



    Not to serious, discerning buyers -- they would rather buy nothing than buy an inferior product!



    You ever owned a retail store, during a recession -- and survived? I have! People will wait to buy quality!



    I retired at age 50! You?



    .
  • Reply 111 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


    Well I had a half dozen replies. Then I watched that demo video. RIP RIM, you just made something no one at all will ever care about.



    Yeah! It's kinda' sad!



    If I owned RIMM I woud start a stockholder initiative that 2 CEOs are 1 too many.



    I Would also ask what business that RIMM thinks that they are in?



    What are RIMMs goals through 2011?



    .
  • Reply 112 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    Actually, fluff sells.



    And, people accuse Apple fanboys of arrogance!
  • Reply 113 of 132
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    The apps are running live, not suspended. What you see is a "live view" of what the app is doing at that very second, not a screen capture.



    There were 6 apps running (not including the HD video player) --- photo app, web browser, SAP cockpit, SAP, salesforce chatter app, powerpoint app.



    So you set up the perfect example for why multi-tasking ain't all it's promised to be by the ill informed. If you cannot smoothly and totally invisibly multi-task in all instances on a device you either are wanting a feature that you really shouldn't want, or you are running an OS that isn't as grown up as it says it is.



    Not pulling off live multi-tasking on a Cortex A9 says to me the OS is borked, and an OS shouldn't be borked in that manner less than 6 months before ship. Ever. Period. And the VP that allowed video tp go out that showed borking like that isn't worth his/her six-figures.







    Quote:

    "Subtle" on a pre-release alpha software --- that's pretty good. And it's not native apps yet.



    It is a wifi connection in a public setting --- remember even Steve Jobs tell people to stop using the wifi when he demo'ed.



    And OS X will be "TeH snappy when the debug code is removed." Your comment is utterly without merit and an indication of not understanding what the OS does and does not do for the software. Native on PlayBook is Flash. Native on PlayBook is QNX/OpenGL. Native on PlayBook is whatever runs on it because it is not a cross platform supporting chunk of hardware. so when something runs slow on it, the native software is running slow on it. You don't get to say only the theoretically (hopefully?) faster QNX/OpenGL code is native.



    And I'll laugh when the poorly optimized OpenGL code bogs too. The talented OpenGL programmers work in the gaming and visual effects industries, which includes the big tool producers as well as the content production companies. Embedded device OpenGL programmers tend to write naive crappy performing code because they can get away with it, the complexity of what they are displaying is utterly simplistic. I have worked with some folks that used to do that. The blank stares when discussing the matrix stack and performance implications of thrashing it... Lets just say that the talent in the pool after the glamor jobs are filled isn't very deep, but sometimes it does fighter jet displays and those gents are considered avionics rock stars. Ya think the Playbook QNX OS is going to change that social/personnel talent problem?
  • Reply 114 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    iOS (OS X) has always had full multi-tasking -- it's Unix-based, as is QNX. What Apple has done is limit 3rd-party multi-tasking. It can relax this restriction at any time when the situation justifies it -- running bg movies and presos excepted.



    OK! i'll make a prediction based on what I know about RIM, the timing, the competition, and what I see in this PlayBook product.



    It will be released in March 2011 with lots of promo and very poor reviews,



    It will sell less than 1 million units in CY 2011 -- as presently priced and configured.



    It will be a failure in a burgeoning market for tablets.



    Specs don't sell -- solutions do!



    .



    Hi Dick. I like you and respect your opinions, and I hate to be a curmudgeon.



    But, when this was first announced, your predictions were that the Playbook would not be ready for almost a year because they had no OS, no SDK, no working unit etc.



    So, a month later, they release the SDK, show a working demo, and stick with their early 2011 release date.



    We shall see what happens, but . . . . .
  • Reply 115 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    Hi Dick. I like you and respect your opinions, and I hate to be a curmudgeon.



    But, when this was first announced, your predictions were that the Playbook would not be ready for almost a year because they had no OS, no SDK, no working unit etc.



    So, a month later, they release the SDK, show a working demo, and stick with their early 2011 release date.



    We shall see what happens, but . . . . .



    Rim announced the PlayBook on 9/27 -- showing videos and mockups only, lots of missing specs (price, Battery, etc). No demos -- a brand new (to them) OS (QNX) and brand new (to them) UI (Flash, AIR, whatever). No SDK, no release date. RIM and Adobe, both have poor track records with touch, and multitouch interface.





    Based on that, and extrapolating from Apple's intro / release of the iPhone, (AIR) I predicted a June 2011 release (at best) of the PlayBook. I wondered why they held the announcement at all.





    Apple demoed working iPhones in Jan 2007. Announced specs, Battery, Price and release month. R Apple had to transfer expert Mac OS X people to the iPhone team (Delaying the new release of Mac OS X) to make their June deadline. An SDK was not part of the original package.





    I just watched the 2007 iPhone announcement keynote. Very long, complete, detailed demo of apps and the UI. I would call this a very advanced beta, Reporters had hands-on within weeks.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/18/...n-with-iphone.



    Apple met their 6 month release deadline -- 6-month concentrated effort from a late beta at announce.





    Rim and Adobe, 1 month after announce, release preliminary SDKs -- fragmented, download bits from several places -- early alpha feel.



    Rim, 1 month after their sept 27 announcement, live demos PlayBook at Adobe event. Very limited and controlled demo of OS and apps. UI is not done. Has late Alpha look and feel. AFAICT, no one outside Rim and Adobe has hands-on experience. Still no published battery life? No published release month?





    Based on where we are today, I revised my estimate to, a very generous, March 2011 release -- that means significant product, say 100,000 in the channel by March 31, 2011. Sales would need to be over 100,000 for the 9 months of availability in 2011.



    I don't see this competing with the iPad, HP Slate, or Galaxy Tab. Supposedly it is targeted at enterprise.



    There better be a lot of enterprise apps already written in AIR!



    I did not factor in competition for parts and production facilities.



    I believe that most enterprises are in, or have recently completed, their budget/planning cycle for 2011. I doubt many PlayBooks are in these budgets. I suspect there are many iPads in enterprise budgets and app development projects are already underway.





    I just don't see the PlayBook being a success -- it's the wrong company(s), introducing the wrong product at the wrong time.





    But, as you say: we'll see.



    .
  • Reply 116 of 132
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Got any links for scrubs?



    .



    Scrubs tend to have smallish pockets. Maybe a warm-up jacket?
  • Reply 117 of 132
    It's really hard to tell how the os looks, since most of the video does not show it. The browser looks interesting. The commercial does not show the device until the end, so all of the "screen shots" are rendered and it's difficult to tell how it looks and acts on the playbook itself. I think the name is pretty clever, actually.



    I may be wrong, but it seems every iphone/ipad competitor's commercials all say screen image simulated, yet I never see it on an Apple commercial? Is Apple not disclosing? or are they really images from their devices.
  • Reply 118 of 132
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post


    It's really hard to tell how the os looks, since most of the video does not show it. The browser looks interesting. The commercial does not show the device until the end, so all of the "screen shots" are rendered and it's difficult to tell how it looks and acts on the playbook itself. I think the name is pretty clever, actually.



    I may be wrong, but it seems every iphone/ipad competitor's commercials all say screen image simulated, yet I never see it on an Apple commercial? Is Apple not disclosing? or are they really images from their devices.



    Apple shows real images captured on the devices. They do speed up some things like video of internet downloading actions and there is a disclaimer about the time compression when they use it.
  • Reply 119 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Rim announced the PlayBook on 9/27 -- showing videos and mockups only, lots of missing specs (price, Battery, etc). No demos -- a brand new (to them) OS (QNX) and brand new (to them) UI (Flash, AIR, whatever). No SDK, no release date. RIM and Adobe, both have poor track records with touch, and multitouch interface.





    Based on that, and extrapolating from Apple's intro / release of the iPhone, (AIR) I predicted a June 2011 release (at best) of the PlayBook. I wondered why they held the announcement at all.





    Apple demoed working iPhones in Jan 2007. Announced specs, Battery, Price and release month. R Apple had to transfer expert Mac OS X people to the iPhone team (Delaying the new release of Mac OS X) to make their June deadline. An SDK was not part of the original package.





    I just watched the 2007 iPhone announcement keynote. Very long, complete, detailed demo of apps and the UI. I would call this a very advanced beta, Reporters had hands-on within weeks.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/18/...n-with-iphone.



    Apple met their 6 month release deadline -- 6-month concentrated effort from a late beta at announce.





    Rim and Adobe, 1 month after announce, release preliminary SDKs -- fragmented, download bits from several places -- early alpha feel.



    Rim, 1 month after their sept 27 announcement, live demos PlayBook at Adobe event. Very limited and controlled demo of OS and apps. UI is not done. Has late Alpha look and feel. AFAICT, no one outside Rim and Adobe has hands-on experience. Still no published battery life? No published release month?





    Based on where we are today, I revised my estimate to, a very generous, March 2011 release -- that means significant product, say 100,000 in the channel by March 31, 2011. Sales would need to be over 100,000 for the 9 months of availability in 2011.



    I don't see this competing with the iPad, HP Slate, or Galaxy Tab. Supposedly it is targeted at enterprise.



    There better be a lot of enterprise apps already written in AIR!



    I did not factor in competition for parts and production facilities.



    I believe that most enterprises are in, or have recently completed, their budget/planning cycle for 2011. I doubt many PlayBooks are in these budgets. I suspect there are many iPads in enterprise budgets and app development projects are already underway.





    I just don't see the PlayBook being a success -- it's the wrong company(s), introducing the wrong product at the wrong time.





    But, as you say: we'll see.



    .



    I do not know if it will be successful, but the one area I think it does have a real chance is the Medical setting. The size fits in the pockets of standard doctor jackets, and BB security meets or exceeds federal HIPAA requirements - so it would be perfect for electronic transfer of records.
  • Reply 120 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post


    Now, that is really the make or break question right there... (the screen size is certainly not)



    So far, IMHO of course, RIM has not proven that they do understand touch interfaces, neither the Storm, nor the Storm 2, nor the Torch have received any praise for their touch implementation. How they will magically just pull that off on a bigger device is something I do not see just happening (of course, it is possible). So far they gave the press no hands-on time with the devices, and one can literally show off everything hidden inside a glass cube and running a video.



    RIM still has a special position in the enterprise world (at least in the US), and they will certainly move some units. But without attracting consumers, it will remain a niche product. Usability and availability of apps and media will be key factors... none of these are historical strengths of RIM, let's see if they can change that.



    I totally agree! The Playbook is a device that will pretty much be useless without an actual Blackberry handset. And with the popularity of the blackberry handset dwindling, it's just pretty impractical to think that a person will buy a phone with failing popularity just so that they can have a playbook. I am an owner of the original storm and I can't wait until my contract is up so that I can change platforms. I Will never again buy another RIM device, they are horrible when it comes to support. And more importantly, they are horrible when it comes to innovation and creativity.
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