[quote]you sox fans are big babies man. <hr></blockquote>
Oh, resorting to name calling. That's a sure sign that you know what you're talking about. What, you can't back up your statements with facts?
Here is the fact that's important: Roger Clemens cannot succesfully pitch in Fenway Park during the postseason. It just doesn't happen. He chokes in the big games in Boston.
Plus, the fact that he showed up to spring training the year before he left so overweight that he resembled El Guapo (Rich Garces) in midseason form shows that he really didn't care about pitching in Boston, and that's what really got people angry at him. He signed a contract to play Major League Baseball and pitch in big league games, and he didn't even try and keep himself in good form during the offseason. This is when a lot of people counted him out for good. But after he realized what he had done to himself, he got back into shape and has been pitching well.
Even ESPN had this to say about Clemens
[quote]Earlier in his career, Clemens looked inept in the field and unsure of himself in the stretch.<hr></blockquote>
That would be when he was with the Red Sox. You're experience with Clemens is his time on the Yankees, so I know you're biased, but this guy is no prince by any means. In Boston, he was a detriment to the locker room and some even thought he was a little crazy. Take for example his obsession with 'K'. He lives in Katy (sp?), Texas and he even named his children all with the first letter 'K'.
Any way, back to the topic at hand:
So far, the Red Sox are up in the series 2-1, but the Yankees are back in first place. Tomorrow's game is in the morning at 11 AM.
If you really want to know more about the mindset of the Boston fans right now, you should read Peter Gammon's latest article on ESPN.com:
Yankee fans are used to winning over the past decade, almost spoiled.
But even despite all of this, despite having not won a World Series since 1918, despite battling it out with the Yankees every year, and despite always having something go wrong, hope reigns eternal here in New England.
I've been in Boston for about three years now, and every year it's the same thing: This is the year the Sox will win it all! Reverse the curse, rah rah rah! Usually accompanied by fighting anyone wearing anything remotely promoting any New York sports team.
It's a humorous rivalry when you step back from it all, but I just can't take Red Sox fans seriously anymore There's always a good excuse for why they haven't won a world series in decades
It's a humorous rivalry when you step back from it all, but I just can't take Red Sox fans seriously anymore There's always a good excuse for why they haven't won a world series in decades</strong><hr></blockquote>
No there isn't. And my complaints about Roger shouldn't be taken that way. If McNamara had substituted Stapleton for Buckner as a defensive replacement late in the game - just like he did all season long - it wouldn't have mattered that Clemens' performance in that series wasn't that impressive. If the front office hadn't traded Sparky Lyle, the '75 series would have been different too. And I always thought that the Sox lost the pennant in '78 when they traded Cecil Cooper for George Scott. None of this takes away anything from the achievements of the teams that beat my team. (The '78 Yankee team and the '75 Reds were great teams.) The Sox should have won those years anyway. I don't know why they didn't. But I sometimes wonder about the other guys: there's something about defeating a worthy opponent that makes the victory greater. After the 6th game of the '75 Series Pete Rose was in some kind of "zone". The Reds had lost the game but he kept going on about what an honor it was to have been a part of something like that. The Yankees have a tradition of greatness but near the top of that tradition would have to be the '78 pennant race and playoff game. These kinds of discussions are part of what being a fan is all about. How many Oakland Raider fans will ever get over that call in last years' playoffs?
One more thing: my biggest problem with the Yankees is Clemens. The rest of the team I like a lot. What's not to like about guys like Giambi, Jeter, Williams, Mussina, Posada, Spencer, Soriano, Rivera and Torre? When the Yanks decided to cut Tino loose I was hoping the Sox would make a play for him. Guys like Ralph Houk and David Cone (and before my time, Elston Howard) brought a lot of professionalism when they came to Boston. But you know, I'm kind of glad Clemens is with the Yankees these days. I needed a good reason to hate them.
The Red Sox take the series and first place from the Yankee with their 4-3 win today.
Derek Lowe pitched a great game, setting a personal career high of strikeouts. El Guapo needs to gain some weight, and fast, as he gave up a few runs in the 8th, but Urbina came in and saved the game.
Shea Hillenbrand had another great game as well, getting some big hits and knocking in a few runs.
So the Red Sox take the series 3-1, and they will face off again in May when NY will be back at Fenway (I'm going to the game on May 25. )
<strong>The Red Sox take the series and first place from the Yankee with their 4-3 win today.
Derek Lowe pitched a great game, setting a personal career high of strikeouts. El Guapo needs to gain some weight, and fast, as he gave up a few runs in the 8th, but Urbina came in and saved the game.
Shea Hillenbrand had another great game as well, getting some big hits and knocking in a few runs.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lowe and Hillenbrand were great but Garces and Urbina were awfully shaky again. I don't know what the deal is with El Guapo. He's been consistently good for the Sox the last few years. Urbina, I just don't know. He's better as a stopper than Lowe was last year but just about anybody would be. Good victory, though. Long season ahead.
Pedro's getting better. His pinpoint control isn't back yet, but his velocity and movement on his fastball is up, and he looks a lot less sloppy. I don't know if he'll return to his form of a couple of years ago, but I doubt he's washed up.
What's up with the Yankee's defense? On Saturday they looked terrible. They're getting almost as bad as the Sox when it comes to turning a double play...
I'm a Sox fan, but this isn't the year. I think they're as strong or stronger in the field and at the plate than ever, but their pitching doesn't measure up to either Yankess or Oakland. I don't trust Derek Lowe (although he's pitching fantastically right now), and their only star is a questionable Pedro.
<strong>What's up with the Yankee's defense? On Saturday they looked terrible. They're getting almost as bad as the Sox when it comes to turning a double play....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, their defense definitely sucked. But the Sox can turn a double-play now, seeing as how Jose Awfulhands (Offerman) is no longer the everyday 2b.
[quote]<strong>
I'm a Sox fan, but this isn't the year. I think they're as strong or stronger in the field and at the plate than ever, but their pitching doesn't measure up to either Yankess or Oakland. I don't trust Derek Lowe (although he's pitching fantastically right now), and their only star is a questionable Pedro.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i disagree with that assessment of Lowe. Lowe still had 24 saves last year, and blew a few less than Isringhausen did. Some of them were adventures, but 100% of Oogie's saves have been hair-raising so far. And he has had 7 opportunities! The big question about Lowe is whether or not he can hold up to the extra work. As for Pedro, only time will tell, but remember that Burkett and Hermanson (hey, he looked great in that one inning!) will be back, too, and Wakefield's had a great start also. From the beginning, we had to assume that the pitching would be iffy. So far it's been superb, and anything beyond adequate is going to make a huge difference this year.
I had to come back and post this after Pedro's excellent game last night. This should prove to a lot of the skeptics that he is returning to his old form. He threw 8 innings, giving up 1 hit, striking out 6, and walking no one. It was an excellent performance, and his velocity was terrific.
i disagree with that assessment of Lowe. Lowe still had 24 saves last year, and blew a few less than Isringhausen did. Some of them were adventures, but 100% of Oogie's saves have been hair-raising so far.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No question that something's wrong with Oogie. Maybe that's why Little had Garces close last night. That said, Oogie's ineffectiveness doesn't make Lowe into a closer. From the moment he came to the Sox, Lowe wanted to start. He's finally being used in a way that best utilizes his talent. The problem with Lowe as closer is that he's a contact pitcher. He doesn't blow anybody away. He relies on a sinkerball and puts the ball in play. Nothing wrong with that when the bases are clear. But closers often don't come in in situations like that.
Back to Oogie. He's not throwing very hard anymore. Against the Yankees on Patriot's Day he threw a lot of off-speed pitches. That's not the way he's succeeded in the past. I don't know if he's currently having arm problems or the loss of velocity is a consequence of all that surgery. (He's had three of them.) Whatever the reason, I think Little needs a new closer. He's taking a look at Garces. I think he should also consider Arojo.
Comments
Oh, resorting to name calling. That's a sure sign that you know what you're talking about. What, you can't back up your statements with facts?
Here is the fact that's important: Roger Clemens cannot succesfully pitch in Fenway Park during the postseason. It just doesn't happen. He chokes in the big games in Boston.
Plus, the fact that he showed up to spring training the year before he left so overweight that he resembled El Guapo (Rich Garces) in midseason form shows that he really didn't care about pitching in Boston, and that's what really got people angry at him. He signed a contract to play Major League Baseball and pitch in big league games, and he didn't even try and keep himself in good form during the offseason. This is when a lot of people counted him out for good. But after he realized what he had done to himself, he got back into shape and has been pitching well.
Even ESPN had this to say about Clemens
[quote]Earlier in his career, Clemens looked inept in the field and unsure of himself in the stretch.<hr></blockquote>
That would be when he was with the Red Sox. You're experience with Clemens is his time on the Yankees, so I know you're biased, but this guy is no prince by any means. In Boston, he was a detriment to the locker room and some even thought he was a little crazy. Take for example his obsession with 'K'. He lives in Katy (sp?), Texas and he even named his children all with the first letter 'K'.
Any way, back to the topic at hand:
So far, the Red Sox are up in the series 2-1, but the Yankees are back in first place. Tomorrow's game is in the morning at 11 AM.
If you really want to know more about the mindset of the Boston fans right now, you should read Peter Gammon's latest article on ESPN.com:
<a href="http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/0414/1368459.html"; target="_blank">http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/2002/0414/1368459.html</a>;
Yankee fans are used to winning over the past decade, almost spoiled.
But even despite all of this, despite having not won a World Series since 1918, despite battling it out with the Yankees every year, and despite always having something go wrong, hope reigns eternal here in New England.
It's a humorous rivalry when you step back from it all, but I just can't take Red Sox fans seriously anymore
<strong>
It's a humorous rivalry when you step back from it all, but I just can't take Red Sox fans seriously anymore
No there isn't. And my complaints about Roger shouldn't be taken that way. If McNamara had substituted Stapleton for Buckner as a defensive replacement late in the game - just like he did all season long - it wouldn't have mattered that Clemens' performance in that series wasn't that impressive. If the front office hadn't traded Sparky Lyle, the '75 series would have been different too. And I always thought that the Sox lost the pennant in '78 when they traded Cecil Cooper for George Scott. None of this takes away anything from the achievements of the teams that beat my team. (The '78 Yankee team and the '75 Reds were great teams.) The Sox should have won those years anyway. I don't know why they didn't. But I sometimes wonder about the other guys: there's something about defeating a worthy opponent that makes the victory greater. After the 6th game of the '75 Series Pete Rose was in some kind of "zone". The Reds had lost the game but he kept going on about what an honor it was to have been a part of something like that. The Yankees have a tradition of greatness but near the top of that tradition would have to be the '78 pennant race and playoff game. These kinds of discussions are part of what being a fan is all about. How many Oakland Raider fans will ever get over that call in last years' playoffs?
One more thing: my biggest problem with the Yankees is Clemens. The rest of the team I like a lot. What's not to like about guys like Giambi, Jeter, Williams, Mussina, Posada, Spencer, Soriano, Rivera and Torre? When the Yanks decided to cut Tino loose I was hoping the Sox would make a play for him. Guys like Ralph Houk and David Cone (and before my time, Elston Howard) brought a lot of professionalism when they came to Boston. But you know, I'm kind of glad Clemens is with the Yankees these days. I needed a good reason to hate them.
[ 04-15-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
Derek Lowe pitched a great game, setting a personal career high of strikeouts. El Guapo needs to gain some weight, and fast, as he gave up a few runs in the 8th, but Urbina came in and saved the game.
Shea Hillenbrand had another great game as well, getting some big hits and knocking in a few runs.
So the Red Sox take the series 3-1, and they will face off again in May when NY will be back at Fenway (I'm going to the game on May 25.
Series like these are what make baseball fun.
<strong>The Red Sox take the series and first place from the Yankee with their 4-3 win today.
Derek Lowe pitched a great game, setting a personal career high of strikeouts. El Guapo needs to gain some weight, and fast, as he gave up a few runs in the 8th, but Urbina came in and saved the game.
Shea Hillenbrand had another great game as well, getting some big hits and knocking in a few runs.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Lowe and Hillenbrand were great but Garces and Urbina were awfully shaky again. I don't know what the deal is with El Guapo. He's been consistently good for the Sox the last few years. Urbina, I just don't know. He's better as a stopper than Lowe was last year but just about anybody would be. Good victory, though. Long season ahead.
Pedro's getting better. His pinpoint control isn't back yet, but his velocity and movement on his fastball is up, and he looks a lot less sloppy. I don't know if he'll return to his form of a couple of years ago, but I doubt he's washed up.
What's up with the Yankee's defense? On Saturday they looked terrible. They're getting almost as bad as the Sox when it comes to turning a double play...
I'm a Sox fan, but this isn't the year. I think they're as strong or stronger in the field and at the plate than ever, but their pitching doesn't measure up to either Yankess or Oakland. I don't trust Derek Lowe (although he's pitching fantastically right now), and their only star is a questionable Pedro.
RED SOX win 3 of 4
...THIS IS THE YEAR!
<hr></blockquote>
Thank you, thank you. No applause, just send cash.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
<strong>What's up with the Yankee's defense? On Saturday they looked terrible. They're getting almost as bad as the Sox when it comes to turning a double play....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, their defense definitely sucked. But the Sox can turn a double-play now, seeing as how Jose Awfulhands (Offerman) is no longer the everyday 2b.
[quote]<strong>
I'm a Sox fan, but this isn't the year. I think they're as strong or stronger in the field and at the plate than ever, but their pitching doesn't measure up to either Yankess or Oakland. I don't trust Derek Lowe (although he's pitching fantastically right now), and their only star is a questionable Pedro.</strong><hr></blockquote>
i disagree with that assessment of Lowe. Lowe still had 24 saves last year, and blew a few less than Isringhausen did. Some of them were adventures, but 100% of Oogie's saves have been hair-raising so far. And he has had 7 opportunities! The big question about Lowe is whether or not he can hold up to the extra work. As for Pedro, only time will tell, but remember that Burkett and Hermanson (hey, he looked great in that one inning!) will be back, too, and Wakefield's had a great start also. From the beginning, we had to assume that the pitching would be iffy. So far it's been superb, and anything beyond adequate is going to make a huge difference this year.
<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=220419107"; target="_blank">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=220419107</a>;
<strong>
i disagree with that assessment of Lowe. Lowe still had 24 saves last year, and blew a few less than Isringhausen did. Some of them were adventures, but 100% of Oogie's saves have been hair-raising so far.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No question that something's wrong with Oogie. Maybe that's why Little had Garces close last night. That said, Oogie's ineffectiveness doesn't make Lowe into a closer. From the moment he came to the Sox, Lowe wanted to start. He's finally being used in a way that best utilizes his talent. The problem with Lowe as closer is that he's a contact pitcher. He doesn't blow anybody away. He relies on a sinkerball and puts the ball in play. Nothing wrong with that when the bases are clear. But closers often don't come in in situations like that.
Back to Oogie. He's not throwing very hard anymore. Against the Yankees on Patriot's Day he threw a lot of off-speed pitches. That's not the way he's succeeded in the past. I don't know if he's currently having arm problems or the loss of velocity is a consequence of all that surgery. (He's had three of them.) Whatever the reason, I think Little needs a new closer. He's taking a look at Garces. I think he should also consider Arojo.
[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>