You know in all these leaks they (RIM) just dont talk about the battery life do they. That spec will be very interesting.
Its probably difficult for RIM to talk about battery life at this time because they are so far from release. The OS is still a long way from being complete and any figure they could pinpoint now would likely be incorrect by the time they get to market (positively or negatively).
I also question just how much battery life they will be able to squeeze out of Playbook based on their approach to multitasking. RIM is allowing applications to run full speed in the background, which they call "true" multitasking. This will undoubtedly reduce battery life by a large degree. Heck, even running Skype on iPhone 4 has a very noticeable impact on battery life and it is supposedly optimized for background operation!
So we go back to the "pay extra for specs" thought.
I agree, but I think they will have a decent update to the iPad 1st quarter every year. I think it will fall in line with iPhone ... Decent upgrade every year ... "magical" upgrade every two years
the fact of the matter isthat the RIM product is kicking my iPad's ass. It looks like a legit test to me. The million dollar question is battery. Frankly my ipad has never come close to running out of battery. Also, what is flash doing to the performance of that unreleased product. There are many unanswered questions here, but the demo is impressive so far.
I am really interested in what the battery comparison is when Rim's final product is released. I never come close to running out of battery on my iPad either. If Rim can match or do better...they might have a very good product on their hands. Apple can withstand the competition.....it always drives their innovation!
iPad 2 will definitely have a higher res display. I don't have any doubts about that. Not because they absolutely need higher resolution by March 2011. Rather, whatever they intro in March 2011 would have to last another year before refresh. That would make the current display very long in the tooth by March 2012.
I would agree expect for the precedence with the iPhone. I made mention to it a few posts up. it wasn’t until the 4th iPhone that the resolution changed. That made the iPhone 3GS’ resolution very long in the tooth, and that was with a huge push of smartphones following Apple’s lead. With the iPad, there simply won’t be the same competition. The best competitors are half the display size and even Google says Android won’t be ready for tablets until v3.0.
Cost: iPhone 4 gets retina without the need of price increase.
Power: iPhone 4 battery with 4x resolution lasts longer than 3G.
App upgrades: upgrades are optional not necessary. I have not upgraded any of my apps on the store for retina yet.
Actually, sennen is right. iPad-size Retina displays just aren't practical. I also think they simply cannot make them, pragmatically, at that size. Yet. It's like the early years of color flatscreens - they could not mass-produce them beyond a certain size because you wound up with dead pixels. So it took a while before they made sense for laptops, and even longer before they were practical for (larger) desktop displays, and longer still before they could be made big and cheap enough for your living room TV.
But the next iPad display will certainly have a higher resolution. It just won't be as dense as the Retina display, is all. Too bad, but tech evolves over time. As you may have noticed...
"good thing other people are making products so that Apple has competition so it will make better products"...
I don't think we need a ban - it's an excellent indicator of the total lack of understanding on the part of the poster. A signpost of the clueless, if you will
Do you guys really believe there's only one good company in the world, and no one else can ever do anything right?
Right now there is only one company that appears capable of demonstrating they get it.
I agree that there should be others capable of competing with Apple, but they sure haven't materialized! I don't have a blind loyalty to Apple - I like Apple because they make compelling solutions. I'm still waiting for someone to step up and pay attention with the level of detail that Apple does. For all the trash talking, I'm still waiting...
Case in point:
No one outside of RIM has touched it
Flash appears to be their main selling point
The speed that they showed is on hardware that is not shipping
Apple will more than likely meet or exceed their hardware with the next iPad
The screen is still smaller than the iPad
Even with a smaller screen it appears they are struggling to match the iPad price as they have yet to set a definitive price
And they still don't have a compelling story beyond Flash (we got it even though it will kill your battery) and "Ooh, ours is a little faster".
No talk about applications, integration with your media or ecosystem - just the same tired focus on a few hand picked features from another meaningless checklist.
Feature oriented checklists may get geeks excited, but regular people are more interested in what a device can do for them - and other than Flash, which so far doesn't seem to be an issue for Apple, there is nothing of real substance to RIM's message.
Quote:
Man, the Mac community ain't what it used to be....
I would hope not - that would imply the "Mac community" was stagnant and incapable of growth... Sounds boring for the "Mac community" - whatever that is.
Given that RIM sold nearly 12 million handsets last quarter (I believe a record for them), I do not think they are in any danger of folding up.
To forstall the inevitable "but they lost market share" argument, Apple also lost market share to Android, and I doubt you are going to claim Apple is in any danger of packing up their bags.
Again, for all of the "mental midgets" that still don't "get it" .... Rim represents one phone company .... Apple represents one phone company .... Android represents a multitude of phone companies.
To keep comparing these various companies as to who is "winning" and who is "losing" is not only useless information but also borders on totally stupid. Think about it. That's like saying: Mazda lost marketshare against the total sales of the rest of the world. See how insanely stupid that sounds?
You seem to completely misunderstand what the term vaporware means. Did you even watch the video? There's a Playbook right there, in the video, and it's not an empty shell or a wooden mockup, it'a a real device which works.
We don't know what it is since no one outside of RIM has touched it.
Unlike iOS 4.2 (what an inane thread in this topic - sigh)
Quote:
It's also impressively faster than the iPad
It's not impressive because it's only a glimmer in RIMs eye right now.
I'm sure the prototype for the iPad 2 is equally impressive. It's about as relevant as this demo.
Quote:
Perhaps for once, fanboys should give non Apple products a chance. You might find that some of them are actually pretty damn good.
How can it be "pretty darn good" if it isn't even shipping yet?
No talk about applications, integration with your media or ecosystem - just the same tired focus on a few hand picked features from another meaningless checklist.
I get quite a kick out of the demos they've given so far. They claim the Playbook is the first enterprise grade tablet, yet the demos they've given so far are:
-watching a youtube video
-pinch and zoom a photo
-watch a video of fish in the ocean
-surfing CBS and Adidas websites
These are not exactly enterprise orientated activities.
I imagine that in early 2011 they will give a full Jobs-style keynote where they will review things like tethering, email, calendar, device management,etc. I just don't think those features are ready yet for public demonstration.
Until then we can be certain that at a minimum the playbook is capable of playing youtube videos. At long last a tablet that can play youtube videos! Oh wait...
Again, for all of the "mental midgets" that still don't "get it" .... Rim represents one phone company .... Apple represents one phone company .... Android represents a multitude of phone companies.
To keep comparing these various companies as to who is "winning" and who is "losing" is not only useless information but also borders on totally stupid. Think about it. That's like saying: Mazda lost marketshare against the total sales of the rest of the world. See how insanely stupid that sounds?
Apple is winning because they have a thriving ecosystem, they're selling handsets faster than they can make them and they're making gobs of cash.
Google is winning because they're getting Android onto lots of devices which will eventually drive advertising revenue. They don't make any money on Android itself, but instead on the mobile advertising they will be able to sell.
RIM is losing because they're not selling enough phones and they're not making enough on each of the phones they do sell.
To gauge whether someone is winning or losing you have to look at what they are actually trying to accomplish. Clearly Apple and Google are accomplishing their goals. RIM is not. Its a certainty that the execs at RIM are not satisfied with their current sales or future prospects.
And don't forget, more than one company can win in this market. There will be several winners in the long run.
But if RIM can launch the playbook with acceptable flash performance and acceptable battery life --- then it becomes an entire different issue.
And if we get hit by a meteor tomorrow this is all moot
There is a reason no other companies are matching Apple's performance right now - because they fail to match the balance at Apple has struck. Even on Windows Flash is demonstrated to negatively impact battery life of notebooks - and thats the platform Flash is the most optimized for.
You can wish for puppies an unicorns all you want but in then end, you have to ship and the laws of physics are a harsh mistress - as companies who are used to blowing off Apple are finding out.
As Apple increases the integration of their devices, the gap between them and vendors who are attempting to use off the shelf components and integrate them are going to have a hard time competing. Apples real advantage in this is really demonstrated in the extreme miniaturization of the iOS devices. No one else is even trying to match Apple, and they are continuing to refine. They are leveraging over a decade of constant innovation on the iPod. Look at these other manufacturers and their devices over the same period of time - very little change!
That's why the claims that Apple needs competition to push them to innovate are so laughably off the mark! Apple has single handedly been pushing the entire industry, especially since the iPod. I think this is what really riles the haters - Apple didn't have the umph to seriously challenge Windows head on, so they didn't. And they have been wildly successful in everything since, so much so that its starting to bleed over and increase the cachet of the Mac too. That's why you see the pathetically desperate attempts to marginalize and criticize Apple. If Apple returns to the pathetic Performa riddled 90's I will be right there criticizing them too. But they aren't - they are executing brilliantly, as reflected by their financial success, and to pretend otherwise is just being extremely disingenuous.
To gauge whether someone is winning or losing you have to look at what they are actually trying to accomplish. Clearly Apple and Google are accomplishing their goals. RIM is not. Its a certainty that the execs at RIM are not satisfied with their current sales or future prospects.
And don't forget, more than one company can win in this market. There will be several winners in the long run.
And what RIM is doing is laying the groundworks for a complete OS transition --- short term pain for long term gain.
Having a half-assed attempt on a BB OS 6 phone with a 600 MHz CPU is bad for sales in the short term. I rather that they lost market share right now --- because they ain't spending their resources on BB OS 6.
As Apple increases the integration of their devices, the gap between them and vendors who are attempting to use off the shelf components and integrate them are going to have a hard time competing. Apples real advantage in this is really demonstrated in the extreme miniaturization of the iOS devices.
Have you actually look at the iphone teardowns (and compare it with other smartphones)?
Apple buys components on the cheap --- from companies like infineon with single digit market shares. That's why you see the iphone teardowns so mess up and why the other smartphone teardowns are so clean.
Well it's about time. Thanks for the link. Perhaps they will ship on time - not that the "review" told us anything of substance other than "it's cool".
I noticed it has a gig of RAM - this is where Apple really needs to step up on the next iPad. I think the current iPad has less RAM than the iPhone since I suspect A4s that had failures in the RAM were probably altered and repurposed for the iPad. Much like how Intel took 486's who's math coprocessors flunked, disabled them and sold them as the 486sx. It increases the yield on their A4's and keeps costs down.
Comments
You know in all these leaks they (RIM) just dont talk about the battery life do they. That spec will be very interesting.
Its probably difficult for RIM to talk about battery life at this time because they are so far from release. The OS is still a long way from being complete and any figure they could pinpoint now would likely be incorrect by the time they get to market (positively or negatively).
I also question just how much battery life they will be able to squeeze out of Playbook based on their approach to multitasking. RIM is allowing applications to run full speed in the background, which they call "true" multitasking. This will undoubtedly reduce battery life by a large degree. Heck, even running Skype on iPhone 4 has a very noticeable impact on battery life and it is supposedly optimized for background operation!
So we go back to the "pay extra for specs" thought.
I agree, but I think they will have a decent update to the iPad 1st quarter every year. I think it will fall in line with iPhone ... Decent upgrade every year ... "magical" upgrade every two years
the fact of the matter isthat the RIM product is kicking my iPad's ass. It looks like a legit test to me. The million dollar question is battery. Frankly my ipad has never come close to running out of battery. Also, what is flash doing to the performance of that unreleased product. There are many unanswered questions here, but the demo is impressive so far.
I am really interested in what the battery comparison is when Rim's final product is released. I never come close to running out of battery on my iPad either. If Rim can match or do better...they might have a very good product on their hands. Apple can withstand the competition.....it always drives their innovation!
iPad 2 will definitely have a higher res display. I don't have any doubts about that. Not because they absolutely need higher resolution by March 2011. Rather, whatever they intro in March 2011 would have to last another year before refresh. That would make the current display very long in the tooth by March 2012.
I would agree expect for the precedence with the iPhone. I made mention to it a few posts up. it wasn’t until the 4th iPhone that the resolution changed. That made the iPhone 3GS’ resolution very long in the tooth, and that was with a huge push of smartphones following Apple’s lead. With the iPad, there simply won’t be the same competition. The best competitors are half the display size and even Google says Android won’t be ready for tablets until v3.0.
Hi
Rim can thank Apple for the Webkit. ( why don't you build your own! )
Will not sale, maybe 10,000 at most, just wait for iPad V2 blow Rim away
If they sell 10,000 they will at least best HP.
Competition is good as it forces Apple to put more into their products.
Besides who really knows if Rimms browser is really faster or if the comparison was done accurately.
See what I did there? It's a penis joke! Get it?
Nevermind...
These don't seem like significant issues.
Cost: iPhone 4 gets retina without the need of price increase.
Power: iPhone 4 battery with 4x resolution lasts longer than 3G.
App upgrades: upgrades are optional not necessary. I have not upgraded any of my apps on the store for retina yet.
Actually, sennen is right. iPad-size Retina displays just aren't practical. I also think they simply cannot make them, pragmatically, at that size. Yet. It's like the early years of color flatscreens - they could not mass-produce them beyond a certain size because you wound up with dead pixels. So it took a while before they made sense for laptops, and even longer before they were practical for (larger) desktop displays, and longer still before they could be made big and cheap enough for your living room TV.
But the next iPad display will certainly have a higher resolution. It just won't be as dense as the Retina display, is all. Too bad, but tech evolves over time. As you may have noticed...
OMG! Can we please have a ban on:
"good thing other people are making products so that Apple has competition so it will make better products"...
I don't think we need a ban - it's an excellent indicator of the total lack of understanding on the part of the poster. A signpost of the clueless, if you will
Do you guys really believe there's only one good company in the world, and no one else can ever do anything right?
Right now there is only one company that appears capable of demonstrating they get it.
I agree that there should be others capable of competing with Apple, but they sure haven't materialized! I don't have a blind loyalty to Apple - I like Apple because they make compelling solutions. I'm still waiting for someone to step up and pay attention with the level of detail that Apple does. For all the trash talking, I'm still waiting...
Case in point:
- No one outside of RIM has touched it
- Flash appears to be their main selling point
- The speed that they showed is on hardware that is not shipping
- Apple will more than likely meet or exceed their hardware with the next iPad
- The screen is still smaller than the iPad
- Even with a smaller screen it appears they are struggling to match the iPad price as they have yet to set a definitive price
And they still don't have a compelling story beyond Flash (we got it even though it will kill your battery) and "Ooh, ours is a little faster".No talk about applications, integration with your media or ecosystem - just the same tired focus on a few hand picked features from another meaningless checklist.
Feature oriented checklists may get geeks excited, but regular people are more interested in what a device can do for them - and other than Flash, which so far doesn't seem to be an issue for Apple, there is nothing of real substance to RIM's message.
Man, the Mac community ain't what it used to be....
I would hope not - that would imply the "Mac community" was stagnant and incapable of growth... Sounds boring for the "Mac community" - whatever that is.
Given that RIM sold nearly 12 million handsets last quarter (I believe a record for them), I do not think they are in any danger of folding up.
To forstall the inevitable "but they lost market share" argument, Apple also lost market share to Android, and I doubt you are going to claim Apple is in any danger of packing up their bags.
Again, for all of the "mental midgets" that still don't "get it" .... Rim represents one phone company .... Apple represents one phone company .... Android represents a multitude of phone companies.
To keep comparing these various companies as to who is "winning" and who is "losing" is not only useless information but also borders on totally stupid. Think about it. That's like saying: Mazda lost marketshare against the total sales of the rest of the world. See how insanely stupid that sounds?
You seem to completely misunderstand what the term vaporware means. Did you even watch the video? There's a Playbook right there, in the video, and it's not an empty shell or a wooden mockup, it'a a real device which works.
We don't know what it is since no one outside of RIM has touched it.
Unlike iOS 4.2 (what an inane thread in this topic - sigh)
It's also impressively faster than the iPad
It's not impressive because it's only a glimmer in RIMs eye right now.
I'm sure the prototype for the iPad 2 is equally impressive. It's about as relevant as this demo.
Perhaps for once, fanboys should give non Apple products a chance. You might find that some of them are actually pretty damn good.
How can it be "pretty darn good" if it isn't even shipping yet?
Who's the fanboi?
No talk about applications, integration with your media or ecosystem - just the same tired focus on a few hand picked features from another meaningless checklist.
I get quite a kick out of the demos they've given so far. They claim the Playbook is the first enterprise grade tablet, yet the demos they've given so far are:
-watching a youtube video
-pinch and zoom a photo
-watch a video of fish in the ocean
-surfing CBS and Adidas websites
These are not exactly enterprise orientated activities.
I imagine that in early 2011 they will give a full Jobs-style keynote where they will review things like tethering, email, calendar, device management,etc. I just don't think those features are ready yet for public demonstration.
Until then we can be certain that at a minimum the playbook is capable of playing youtube videos. At long last a tablet that can play youtube videos! Oh wait...
Again, for all of the "mental midgets" that still don't "get it" .... Rim represents one phone company .... Apple represents one phone company .... Android represents a multitude of phone companies.
To keep comparing these various companies as to who is "winning" and who is "losing" is not only useless information but also borders on totally stupid. Think about it. That's like saying: Mazda lost marketshare against the total sales of the rest of the world. See how insanely stupid that sounds?
Apple is winning because they have a thriving ecosystem, they're selling handsets faster than they can make them and they're making gobs of cash.
Google is winning because they're getting Android onto lots of devices which will eventually drive advertising revenue. They don't make any money on Android itself, but instead on the mobile advertising they will be able to sell.
RIM is losing because they're not selling enough phones and they're not making enough on each of the phones they do sell.
To gauge whether someone is winning or losing you have to look at what they are actually trying to accomplish. Clearly Apple and Google are accomplishing their goals. RIM is not. Its a certainty that the execs at RIM are not satisfied with their current sales or future prospects.
And don't forget, more than one company can win in this market. There will be several winners in the long run.
We don't know what it is since no one outside of RIM has touched it.
Third parties have hands-on it now.
http://mobilityinsider.com/2010/11/1...erry-playbook/
But if RIM can launch the playbook with acceptable flash performance and acceptable battery life --- then it becomes an entire different issue.
And if we get hit by a meteor tomorrow this is all moot
There is a reason no other companies are matching Apple's performance right now - because they fail to match the balance at Apple has struck. Even on Windows Flash is demonstrated to negatively impact battery life of notebooks - and thats the platform Flash is the most optimized for.
You can wish for puppies an unicorns all you want but in then end, you have to ship and the laws of physics are a harsh mistress - as companies who are used to blowing off Apple are finding out.
As Apple increases the integration of their devices, the gap between them and vendors who are attempting to use off the shelf components and integrate them are going to have a hard time competing. Apples real advantage in this is really demonstrated in the extreme miniaturization of the iOS devices. No one else is even trying to match Apple, and they are continuing to refine. They are leveraging over a decade of constant innovation on the iPod. Look at these other manufacturers and their devices over the same period of time - very little change!
That's why the claims that Apple needs competition to push them to innovate are so laughably off the mark! Apple has single handedly been pushing the entire industry, especially since the iPod. I think this is what really riles the haters - Apple didn't have the umph to seriously challenge Windows head on, so they didn't. And they have been wildly successful in everything since, so much so that its starting to bleed over and increase the cachet of the Mac too. That's why you see the pathetically desperate attempts to marginalize and criticize Apple. If Apple returns to the pathetic Performa riddled 90's I will be right there criticizing them too. But they aren't - they are executing brilliantly, as reflected by their financial success, and to pretend otherwise is just being extremely disingenuous.
To gauge whether someone is winning or losing you have to look at what they are actually trying to accomplish. Clearly Apple and Google are accomplishing their goals. RIM is not. Its a certainty that the execs at RIM are not satisfied with their current sales or future prospects.
And don't forget, more than one company can win in this market. There will be several winners in the long run.
And what RIM is doing is laying the groundworks for a complete OS transition --- short term pain for long term gain.
Having a half-assed attempt on a BB OS 6 phone with a 600 MHz CPU is bad for sales in the short term. I rather that they lost market share right now --- because they ain't spending their resources on BB OS 6.
As Apple increases the integration of their devices, the gap between them and vendors who are attempting to use off the shelf components and integrate them are going to have a hard time competing. Apples real advantage in this is really demonstrated in the extreme miniaturization of the iOS devices.
Have you actually look at the iphone teardowns (and compare it with other smartphones)?
Apple buys components on the cheap --- from companies like infineon with single digit market shares. That's why you see the iphone teardowns so mess up and why the other smartphone teardowns are so clean.
Third parties have hands-on it now.
http://mobilityinsider.com/2010/11/1...erry-playbook/
Well it's about time. Thanks for the link. Perhaps they will ship on time - not that the "review" told us anything of substance other than "it's cool".
I noticed it has a gig of RAM - this is where Apple really needs to step up on the next iPad. I think the current iPad has less RAM than the iPhone since I suspect A4s that had failures in the RAM were probably altered and repurposed for the iPad. Much like how Intel took 486's who's math coprocessors flunked, disabled them and sold them as the 486sx. It increases the yield on their A4's and keeps costs down.
Impressive speeds though. Maybe next time.