Your anecdotal evidence is contrary to the average experience by Windows users. I have made a mint off of malware cleanups over the past decade, despite almost everyone having AV installed. The dirty secret is that Symantec and McAfee did not include anti-malware in their products for years. Hence the proliferation of software like MalwareBytes, Super AntiSpyware, Ad-Aware, ComboFix, SpyBot, Spyware Doctor, HijackThis, etc.
If your experience were the norm, the above programs would not have been downloaded millions upon millions of times. Like you, I have successfully avoided malware/viruses on my various Windows boxes, but we're both in a significant minority of Windows users.
How many of these are Win7/Vista users? I'm willing to bet almost none, because in my professional experience the only person who got infected was because he turned UAC off. And in Win7 it only comes up when necessary, so it is the equiv of giving your computer the root password in OSX.
How many of these are Win7/Vista users? I'm willing to bet almost none, because in my professional experience the only person who got infected was because he turned UAC off. And in Win7 it only comes up when necessary, so it is the equiv of giving your computer the root password in OSX.
Sophos tested 10 viruses on Win 7 with and without UAC. 8 of 10 infected Windows regardless of UAC.
None of those viruses matter since all of them run in the user's space, not in any system directory and are trivial to remove, just as any OSX virus that happens due to the user clicking on them or receiving them via flash or Java.
Without UAC they have no rights to modify the registry which right there eliminates turning off task manager, killing a/v, hacking the dns hosts file, auto running or anything related, as well as preventing it from touching system folders.
Besides, as already mentioned, Microsoft gives a/v for free, and it doesn't slow the system down at all.
Macs always enforced user/admin rights. It just took to Vista for MS to do the same. But XP isn't for sale anymore, and it isn't like 2003 where you just turned XP on and you were hacked. Today's malware comes mainly through Adobe apps and Java anyway, so if it affects Win7 it will OSX as well.
None of those viruses matter since all of them run in the user's space, not in any system directory and are trivial to remove, just as any OSX virus that happens due to the user clicking on them or receiving them via flash or Java.
Without UAC they have no rights to modify the registry which right there eliminates turning off task manager, killing a/v, hacking the dns hosts file, auto running or anything related, as well as preventing it from touching system folders.
Besides, as already mentioned, Microsoft gives a/v for free, and it doesn't slow the system down at all.
Macs always enforced user/admin rights. It just took to Vista for MS to do the same. But XP isn't for sale anymore, and it isn't like 2003 where you just turned XP on and you were hacked. Today's malware comes mainly through Adobe apps and Java anyway, so if it affects Win7 it will OSX as well.
Mac users are still waiting for all these viruses to hit. We've been warned for some time, but....where are they? Case in point. Sophos documented 8 of 10 viruses that infect Windows 7 with/without UAC (but I guess they were lying, according to you). For Macs, they could only point to the future of "what might happen". Viruses continue to be a Windows problem. Sorry.
Mac users are still waiting for all these viruses to hit. We've been warned for some time, but....where are they? Case in point. Sophos documented 8 of 10 viruses that infect Windows 7 with/without UAC (but I guess they were lying, according to you). For Macs, they could only point to the future of "what might happen". Viruses continue to be a Windows problem. Sorry.
You say that without any real proof that Win7/Vista users are plagued with viruses. They aren't. And that isn't my opinion or anecdotal experience of one or two, that's my professional experience dealing with actual people.
Manually running a fake a/v program which then proceeds to display a fake message is much, much different than conflicker or the old blaster worm which required no user interaction to work.
An average six year old windows machine can barely get out it's own way while running current AV software. The CPU is so bogged down monitoring the system that it is almost unusable as a computer. Boat anchor comes to mind. No wonder you can't sell them.
I have a Pentium-M 2GHz laptop, I got it almost six years ago, with 2GB RAM, running XP Pro, the CPU isn't bogged down, MS Security Essentials doesn't use much CPU at all. The computer is still very usable, I have no intention of selling it. Although, looking at the local auctions, I can get up to NZ$50 for the Mac Mini I got around the same time...
Your anecdotal evidence is contrary to the average experience by Windows users. I have made a mint off of malware cleanups over the past decade, despite almost everyone having AV installed. The dirty secret is that Symantec and McAfee did not include anti-malware in their products for years. Hence the proliferation of software like MalwareBytes, Super AntiSpyware, Ad-Aware, ComboFix, SpyBot, Spyware Doctor, HijackThis, etc.
If your experience were the norm, the above programs would not have been downloaded millions upon millions of times. Like you, I have successfully avoided malware/viruses on my various Windows boxes, but we're both in a significant minority of Windows users.
I only run MS Security Essentials on both my PCs (and in VM Ware), they are always updated. I can't see the point of paying money to Symantec or McAfee
You say that without any real proof that Win7/Vista users are plagued with viruses. They aren't. And that isn't my opinion or anecdotal experience of one or two, that's my professional experience dealing with actual people.
Manually running a fake a/v program which then proceeds to display a fake message is much, much different than conflicker or the old blaster worm which required no user interaction to work.
Well, my professional experience with actual people is quite different. I am constantly hounded by friends and family to help them get viruses off of their computers. Most have Vista, but some have XP. Don't know anyone that has 7 yet.
On the other hand, I've never had virus protection on any of my Macs and have never been infected.
No virus software to update every year - big saving. Apple machines have a longer life than PCs, and retain more of their resale value.
Less support needed, so cheaper for businesses, schools, etc.
The overall cost of owning a Mac has often been shown to be less than that of a PC.
It's often shown? As in, there are numerous studies and a number of them show Mac's to be cheaper? The majority? What are the numbers?
I'm actually genuinely interested! I searched around for "total cost of ownership" but all I could come up with were a few narrow studies from 3 or 4 years ago.
The fact you've mentioned virus software which is actually free for everyone but large business makes me think your information might be out of date. Do you have links to some studies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder
Also you need to look at VALUE, not PRICE, there is a difference. What value do you add for best industrial design, ease of use, OSX, quality, etc.
Both metrics are just are valid as one another but they aren't interchangeable.
Just because a Mac gives you better value for money in an apples-to-apples comparison (no pun intended) doesn't mean that it's cheaper, just better value.
Well, my professional experience with actual people is quite different. I am constantly hounded by friends and family to help them get viruses off of their computers. Most have Vista, but some have XP. Don't know anyone that has 7 yet.
On the other hand, I've never had virus protection on any of my Macs and have never been infected.
I'm unfortunately the go-to man for at least 50 PCs with friends, family and work.
I saw countless viruses on XP. It was so time consuming to fix it reached a point where I would partition the drive, chuck data on one and XP on the other, the simply reinstall XP when there was problem.
With Vista I've seen one virus in about 18 months where the user repeatedly clicked OK, YES, I AGREE, YES, YES, OK, OK etc and installed a bunch of "codecs" so they could watch pirated movies off a Russian internet site.
With Windows 7 & Security Essentials on maybe 20 on the 50 over the past 6 months I haven't seen anything.
That said, of 6 Macs I "manage" I've never seen a virus, so it's probably fair to say that Windows 7 users are only now enjoying the same freedom from viruses that Mac users have for a number of years.
I'm unfortunately the go-to man for at least 50 PCs with friends, family and work.
I saw countless viruses on XP. It was so time consuming to fix it reached a point where I would partition the drive, chuck data on one and XP on the other, the simply reinstall XP when there was problem.
With Vista I've seen one virus in about 18 months where the user repeatedly clicked OK, YES, I AGREE, YES, YES, OK, OK etc and installed a bunch of "codecs" so they could watch pirated movies off a Russian internet site.
With Windows 7 & Security Essentials on maybe 20 on the 50 over the past 6 months I haven't seen anything.
That said, of 6 Macs I "manage" I've never seen a virus, so it's probably fair to say that Windows 7 users are only now enjoying the same freedom from viruses that Mac users have for a number of years.
I hope it stays that way. As you know, being the "go-to man" for all these Windows users can be quite annoying.
Comments
Your anecdotal evidence is contrary to the average experience by Windows users. I have made a mint off of malware cleanups over the past decade, despite almost everyone having AV installed. The dirty secret is that Symantec and McAfee did not include anti-malware in their products for years. Hence the proliferation of software like MalwareBytes, Super AntiSpyware, Ad-Aware, ComboFix, SpyBot, Spyware Doctor, HijackThis, etc.
If your experience were the norm, the above programs would not have been downloaded millions upon millions of times. Like you, I have successfully avoided malware/viruses on my various Windows boxes, but we're both in a significant minority of Windows users.
How many of these are Win7/Vista users? I'm willing to bet almost none, because in my professional experience the only person who got infected was because he turned UAC off. And in Win7 it only comes up when necessary, so it is the equiv of giving your computer the root password in OSX.
How many of these are Win7/Vista users? I'm willing to bet almost none, because in my professional experience the only person who got infected was because he turned UAC off. And in Win7 it only comes up when necessary, so it is the equiv of giving your computer the root password in OSX.
Sophos tested 10 viruses on Win 7 with and without UAC. 8 of 10 infected Windows regardless of UAC.
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2009...-8-10-viruses/
Sophos tested 10 viruses on Win 7 with and without UAC. 8 of 10 infected Windows regardless of UAC.
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2009...-8-10-viruses/
How convenient. This is from a a/v vendor, who claims OSX needs a/v as well (it's free so no ulterior motive!).
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2010...irus-mac-free/
None of those viruses matter since all of them run in the user's space, not in any system directory and are trivial to remove, just as any OSX virus that happens due to the user clicking on them or receiving them via flash or Java.
Without UAC they have no rights to modify the registry which right there eliminates turning off task manager, killing a/v, hacking the dns hosts file, auto running or anything related, as well as preventing it from touching system folders.
Besides, as already mentioned, Microsoft gives a/v for free, and it doesn't slow the system down at all.
Macs always enforced user/admin rights. It just took to Vista for MS to do the same. But XP isn't for sale anymore, and it isn't like 2003 where you just turned XP on and you were hacked. Today's malware comes mainly through Adobe apps and Java anyway, so if it affects Win7 it will OSX as well.
How convenient. This is from a a/v vendor, who claims OSX needs a/v as well (it's free so no ulterior motive!).
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2010...irus-mac-free/
None of those viruses matter since all of them run in the user's space, not in any system directory and are trivial to remove, just as any OSX virus that happens due to the user clicking on them or receiving them via flash or Java.
Without UAC they have no rights to modify the registry which right there eliminates turning off task manager, killing a/v, hacking the dns hosts file, auto running or anything related, as well as preventing it from touching system folders.
Besides, as already mentioned, Microsoft gives a/v for free, and it doesn't slow the system down at all.
Macs always enforced user/admin rights. It just took to Vista for MS to do the same. But XP isn't for sale anymore, and it isn't like 2003 where you just turned XP on and you were hacked. Today's malware comes mainly through Adobe apps and Java anyway, so if it affects Win7 it will OSX as well.
Mac users are still waiting for all these viruses to hit. We've been warned for some time, but....where are they? Case in point. Sophos documented 8 of 10 viruses that infect Windows 7 with/without UAC (but I guess they were lying, according to you). For Macs, they could only point to the future of "what might happen". Viruses continue to be a Windows problem. Sorry.
Mac users are still waiting for all these viruses to hit. We've been warned for some time, but....where are they? Case in point. Sophos documented 8 of 10 viruses that infect Windows 7 with/without UAC (but I guess they were lying, according to you). For Macs, they could only point to the future of "what might happen". Viruses continue to be a Windows problem. Sorry.
You say that without any real proof that Win7/Vista users are plagued with viruses. They aren't. And that isn't my opinion or anecdotal experience of one or two, that's my professional experience dealing with actual people.
Manually running a fake a/v program which then proceeds to display a fake message is much, much different than conflicker or the old blaster worm which required no user interaction to work.
Here is a latest non story:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...king-sites.ars
So what? It requires the user to OK it just like any other junk, as shown here:
http://www.intego.com/news/trojan-ho...s-mac-os-x.asp
Don't be a dumb ass and you won't get infected.
And if you still want to play games about "I was just browsing and got infected" angle, well, apparently OSX and safari have that issue too
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/a...i-browser/7268
So, is this a new Steve-J/Bill-G alias?
Yes. And Newtron before that.
Yes. Also "appl" ... in French!
I forgot about that one! He'll be back... For the record, the chain of usernames stretches to at least SendMe/ Newtron/ appl/ Steve-J/ Bill-G/ Pomme.
Oh, give it up with the Apple Tax nonsense.
I was thinking the troll must've missed the Microsoft Tax that everyone else pays then
An average six year old windows machine can barely get out it's own way while running current AV software. The CPU is so bogged down monitoring the system that it is almost unusable as a computer. Boat anchor comes to mind. No wonder you can't sell them.
I have a Pentium-M 2GHz laptop, I got it almost six years ago, with 2GB RAM, running XP Pro, the CPU isn't bogged down, MS Security Essentials doesn't use much CPU at all. The computer is still very usable, I have no intention of selling it. Although, looking at the local auctions, I can get up to NZ$50 for the Mac Mini I got around the same time...
No need to gloat. Anti-virus software was running on both machines, and regular anti-malware sweeps were made.
Maybe you should watch what type of sites you visit...
Your anecdotal evidence is contrary to the average experience by Windows users. I have made a mint off of malware cleanups over the past decade, despite almost everyone having AV installed. The dirty secret is that Symantec and McAfee did not include anti-malware in their products for years. Hence the proliferation of software like MalwareBytes, Super AntiSpyware, Ad-Aware, ComboFix, SpyBot, Spyware Doctor, HijackThis, etc.
If your experience were the norm, the above programs would not have been downloaded millions upon millions of times. Like you, I have successfully avoided malware/viruses on my various Windows boxes, but we're both in a significant minority of Windows users.
I only run MS Security Essentials on both my PCs (and in VM Ware), they are always updated. I can't see the point of paying money to Symantec or McAfee
You say that without any real proof that Win7/Vista users are plagued with viruses. They aren't. And that isn't my opinion or anecdotal experience of one or two, that's my professional experience dealing with actual people.
Manually running a fake a/v program which then proceeds to display a fake message is much, much different than conflicker or the old blaster worm which required no user interaction to work.
Here is a latest non story:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...king-sites.ars
So what? It requires the user to OK it just like any other junk, as shown here:
http://www.intego.com/news/trojan-ho...s-mac-os-x.asp
Don't be a dumb ass and you won't get infected.
And if you still want to play games about "I was just browsing and got infected" angle, well, apparently OSX and safari have that issue too
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/a...i-browser/7268
Well, my professional experience with actual people is quite different. I am constantly hounded by friends and family to help them get viruses off of their computers. Most have Vista, but some have XP. Don't know anyone that has 7 yet.
On the other hand, I've never had virus protection on any of my Macs and have never been infected.
Is it more expensive in the long run?
No virus software to update every year - big saving. Apple machines have a longer life than PCs, and retain more of their resale value.
Less support needed, so cheaper for businesses, schools, etc.
The overall cost of owning a Mac has often been shown to be less than that of a PC.
It's often shown? As in, there are numerous studies and a number of them show Mac's to be cheaper? The majority? What are the numbers?
I'm actually genuinely interested! I searched around for "total cost of ownership" but all I could come up with were a few narrow studies from 3 or 4 years ago.
The fact you've mentioned virus software which is actually free for everyone but large business makes me think your information might be out of date. Do you have links to some studies?
Also you need to look at VALUE, not PRICE, there is a difference. What value do you add for best industrial design, ease of use, OSX, quality, etc.
Both metrics are just are valid as one another but they aren't interchangeable.
Just because a Mac gives you better value for money in an apples-to-apples comparison (no pun intended) doesn't mean that it's cheaper, just better value.
Well, my professional experience with actual people is quite different. I am constantly hounded by friends and family to help them get viruses off of their computers. Most have Vista, but some have XP. Don't know anyone that has 7 yet.
On the other hand, I've never had virus protection on any of my Macs and have never been infected.
I'm unfortunately the go-to man for at least 50 PCs with friends, family and work.
I saw countless viruses on XP. It was so time consuming to fix it reached a point where I would partition the drive, chuck data on one and XP on the other, the simply reinstall XP when there was problem.
With Vista I've seen one virus in about 18 months where the user repeatedly clicked OK, YES, I AGREE, YES, YES, OK, OK etc and installed a bunch of "codecs" so they could watch pirated movies off a Russian internet site.
With Windows 7 & Security Essentials on maybe 20 on the 50 over the past 6 months I haven't seen anything.
That said, of 6 Macs I "manage" I've never seen a virus, so it's probably fair to say that Windows 7 users are only now enjoying the same freedom from viruses that Mac users have for a number of years.
I'm unfortunately the go-to man for at least 50 PCs with friends, family and work.
I saw countless viruses on XP. It was so time consuming to fix it reached a point where I would partition the drive, chuck data on one and XP on the other, the simply reinstall XP when there was problem.
With Vista I've seen one virus in about 18 months where the user repeatedly clicked OK, YES, I AGREE, YES, YES, OK, OK etc and installed a bunch of "codecs" so they could watch pirated movies off a Russian internet site.
With Windows 7 & Security Essentials on maybe 20 on the 50 over the past 6 months I haven't seen anything.
That said, of 6 Macs I "manage" I've never seen a virus, so it's probably fair to say that Windows 7 users are only now enjoying the same freedom from viruses that Mac users have for a number of years.
I hope it stays that way. As you know, being the "go-to man" for all these Windows users can be quite annoying.