Windows Phone 7 developers fear platform flop

1356715

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iansilv View Post


    I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.



    But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...



    All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.



    "the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do"



    Good thing you did not say "Mac ads" because I have never gleaned a iota of information from them on why a Mac is better or what it can do other than sit on the palm of someones hand.
  • Reply 42 of 291
    I actually went to an ATT store for a different reason and toyed with a Windows 7 phone. I didn't think it was that bad actually. It was more fluid than I thought it would be for a 1.0 device. At least MS did try to bring something brand new UI-wise to the market, unlike BB.



    Unfortunately, MS isn't good enough to compete anymore with the big boys.
  • Reply 43 of 291
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Don't bother to continue insulting people, either specifically, or in general. You can say what you want without doing that.



    But talking to people without insulting is not good Troll etiquette. So don't count on that happening.
  • Reply 44 of 291
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,253member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post




    Seriously if it cant break 5000 apps after 6 months then there is a problem, like say WebOS.



    If it can't break 5,000 apps in 2 months, there will be a problem. It's too late to take a year before having a serious number of apps out there, which today would mean 50,000, at least.



    By that time, the phone would be on a short slide to oblivion.
  • Reply 45 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Don't bother to continue insulting people, either specifically, or in general. You can say what you want without doing that.



    Right now, it's MS and its partners who are doing the BS. Making statements about selling out of product without stating actual sales numbers is exactly what Palm and Sprint did with the introduction of the Pre. They gleefully stated that they were sold out in several locations, then most locations, then all locations. They promised that more product would be coming as soon as they could catch up in production. But it turned out that they only sold 50,000 units in the first week.



    MS is duplicating that method. We have no idea how many phones have been sold, because they refuse to say. When companies hide their data, its because it isn't good. If developers are not getting their data, or payments, you can bet it's for the same reason.



    You should be complaining about MS's tactics instead of complaining about the info AI is getting. This isn't the only site writing articles like this, and most of them are not Apple oriented sites.



    Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.



    Apple must have something to hide.
  • Reply 46 of 291
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    I have never gleaned a iota of information from them on why a Mac is better or what it can do other than sit on the palm of someones hand.



    It's a matter of brain mass vs neural connections. It's the second that matters.
  • Reply 47 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStud View Post


    It's a matter of brain mass vs neural connections. It's the second that matters.



    I see and that is how you picked your user name..... iStud
  • Reply 48 of 291
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,253member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    I never said anything about Windows 7 sales. However AI did, and now you are as well. Both of you need to prove it.



    The article did use info from others to show the points they made. You're acting as though (to paraphrase Rick, in Casablanca) this is the only article in the only web site that has written about this. It isn't.



    Until MS decides to grace us with numbers of sales, we're stuck with people reporting on what they see and read. They did the same thing with the Zune. No sales numbers, no estimates. Was that because it did so well? Not exactly.
  • Reply 49 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    I am not sure I see your point.



    Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.



    This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.



    2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.



    Did I say anything about doom?



    Read the first line of the article:



    "Despite a reportedly healthy level of interest from developers, Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 debut appears to have flopped with consumers, leaving developers cautious about investing in the platform."



    In other words... Developers are interested, consumers not so much. We're not talking about the future... we're talking about right now. True... it may catch on with consumers but right now it seems to be quite weak in sales.



    Do you really believe that MS would sit back and say nothing if there had been a million WP7 phones sold in 28 days?



    As I said... find me contrary evidence to the weak sales argument and I'll be glad to concede that MS is doing well with WP7.
  • Reply 50 of 291
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iansilv View Post


    I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.



    But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...



    All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.



    That's not really an opposing view to what I was discussing. Yes, the more competition, the better the innovation (in theory), but I that's a separate topic.



    PS: You're mistaken if you think Apple cares a whole lot about market share. They will naturally want to expand to more carriers because more carriers mean more sales, which is what they care about. Apple doesn't really care about how many Android phones are being sold, they care about how many iPhones they are selling. In a growing market, market share isn't a big deal. You can lose marketshare and still have significant sales growth, especially if the marketshare you are losing is in the low margin area of the market.
  • Reply 51 of 291
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    I do not want to see Apple lose market share to Android because it wouldn't' be deserved. Android is not innovative. It essentially is an iOS knockoff. Just look to what Android mock ups looked like at the time the iPhone came out, and when Android was finally released. Android's success relies totally on 1) there not being very many good options for hardware maker, and 2) timing. Google is extremely lucky Apple had to sell it's soul to get a carrier to support the iPhone. Google wouldn't have been nowhere near as lucky if Apple hadn't had the success it had with the iPhone and Apple wasn't tied to AT&T



    I for one think Microsoft's Windows 7 rebuild is more innovative then Android. The live updated GUI is quite neat. Further, Microsoft is able to do some good things with X-Box live and Windows 7. Problem is Microsoft is late to the game and those innovative features aren't nearly as exciting when it is playing catch up on other features that are standard on Android and iOs like copy and paste. I'd rather see Microsoft take some sales from Android, at least it really did do some thinking putting it's OS together.



    Further, it will be interesting to see what HP will do with Palm. Palm also has a more innovative OS then Android.



    PS: My iPhones are happily running contract free on T-Mobile (both my 3Gs and my iPhone 4). The 3GS was easy to do. For most people, however, it isn't practical to do it with a iPhone 4 because of the cost of acquiring one contract free.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iansilv View Post


    I disagree with this. I recently went down to the microsoft store in Mission Viejo and checked out these phones. They are decent, and would be awesome if the iphone never existed. But I want them to fly off the shelves simply because it makes Apple sit up and take notice. It forces Apple to adjust their game plan, bring out a better iphone more quickly, etc... Same thing with Android. I want Android to succeed in a huge way- so Apple has something to compete with! The greatest thing for consumers right now would be for Android and WP7 to actually take marketshare away from the iPhone, so at least we can get the iPhone on multiple carriers.



    But yeah- the phones are nothing amazing. They do the job... that's about it. The advertising program is lame, the ads do not focus on the phone's features like Apple's iphone ads do... not sure how they screwed that up too...



    All in all, I won't buy the iPhone 4 because it is on ATT, so I will hold on to my 3gs until I can get another carrier.



  • Reply 52 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Hmm most reviews I have read like the OS and the devices. Even Walt, iFan, Mossberg liked it.



    Good thing a not a single one of these developers for the iPhone has ever had a problem with Apple, its wide open developers rules and the super quick and easy app approval process



    Apple Insider should stick to predicting future vapor Apple Hardware releases and quoting Jon Gruber.



    Problem is Microsoft isn't just competing against iPhone, but also against BBerry & Android. Sorry, but in the mobile market they sat on their thumbs for way too long & now they are to far behind to catch up.



    Microsoft is still trying to play the finger in every market game, problem is they only make decent products in about half the markets they are in but they pull money from their successful products to try & force success in markets where they suck. So they effectively cripple products that could be great & let them settle at just good. They also try to tie all their products together so that good products end up with bad features just because they wanted to promote one of their bad products. Microsoft is a mess & they badly need a company shake up.
  • Reply 53 of 291
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.



    Apple must have something to hide.



    Ah, perhaps you could use the search tool.



    Or maybe google it with the added constrain site:appleinsider.com



    But why would you do that? You may actually find it!
  • Reply 54 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Even Microsoft's ads for WP7 are lame. "Our phones have no compelling features. You'll want to use them as little as possible."



    If I were a mobile developer, I'd wait a year to see if WP7 phones have enough market share to make a difference. By next winter, if WP7 doesn't have at least 8% to 10% of the smartphone market, I would ignore it and just let it die. Or wait until Microsoft gets it right, which is very unlikely. (For reference, Apple had 24% and Android had 17% of the smartphone market in September 2010.)



    Of course, Microsoft has not shown that they can "get it right" in the mobile space. If I had developed for WinCE aka PocketPC aka Windows Mobile, I would be extremely unhappy that Microsoft just suddenly killed off the platform. With no plans for WinMo app support in WP7.



    MS chose the easiest path: throw away everything they have done before, then start from scratch. Because the old OS was simply not worth updating with modern features. If MS (and Palm, by the way) had looked far enough ahead, they could have evolved their legacy OSes or planned a migration path from the old OS to the new OS. They could have beaten Apple to market with a multi-touch mobile OS.



    But no, MS and Palm simply milked their existing customer bases. They just kept hacking the old OS with new features instead of moving ahead to the next mobile computing paradigm. It's as if they were just waiting for Apple to do something so they could copy Apple's ideas.



    So I would extend Microsoft's WP7 ads beyond end users. If I were interested in developing for WP7 I'd take a quick look at WP7's market share every year. Then ignore it until it either dies or starts to make a dent in iPhone's market share. Not interesting until that happens.



    If those ads were Microsoft's bid to make inroads in the consumer market, that's exactly the wrong thing to say. The consumer market lives and dies by features. Smartphones have to do stuff. The BlackBerry was great for business in that it had a specific set of functions (email/text messaging) and it did those things extremely well. With that said, the browser on the old BlackBerry phones was terrible, but the enterprise market didn't care about that. But that's not how the consumer market works.



    However, that tagline has potential for businesses. I bet that BlackBerry afficionados in the enterprise market have an aversion to the iPhone, and Android to a lesser extent because of all the features that those platforms provide. The iPhone and other consumer-oriented phones are seen as a threat to productivity. Also, people already use Microsoft products for other technology needs such as for document creation.
  • Reply 55 of 291
    tnsftnsf Posts: 203member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.



    It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.



    This is one of the reasons why Oracle bought Sun. The dispute between Google and Sun was already in full swing, but they were trying to handle it privately. Oracle is a different beast and favors hardline tactics. For Oracle, this is an opportunity to squeeze enormous amounts of cash out of Google.



    Sun wasn't big enough or bold enough to take a public run at Google, but Oracle is and they will.
  • Reply 56 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maccherry View Post


    You know Ex, I don't think MS gives a sh** about getting anything right. they make a gajillion bucks sitting on their fat,lazy, corner office a**es anyway by licensing their crap OS off to every freaking OEM on the planet.

    And who do they think they were fooling anyway. The same smart phones using Android are the same ones using W7!

    Ballmer is history. No wonder he sold some of his stock the other week. Lol!

    And I read a disturbing article where a high rolling stock holder, at a stock holder meeting, in MS ask if it is time to break up MS. Damn!



    You know I think there might be people that do care but clearly someone like Ballmer has no vision and can't do anything right. Its hard to believe the guy is worth about 16 billion dollars.



    You know whats more amazing to me is not what Apple is worth but how much MS has dropped. Use to have a market cap of over 500 billion, the company has really lost its way, if they every really knew the way or just got lucky.
  • Reply 57 of 291
    rainrain Posts: 538member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kpluck View Post


    However, it will exceed the sales of RIM platform hardware by the end of 2011 as RIM continues its slide of death. MS will continue to pour money into the platform until they get it to where they want.



    -kpluck



    I'll take a bet on that. Hell, you name the price and I'm in.

    RIM is far from dead. They are still entrenched in the corporate business sector. It's possible their tablet will hit a home run. Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector, Android is viewed as a security risk.

    As far as the mobile space goes, RIM are light years ahead of Microsoft.

    Business doesn't want fun fun fun devices in the hands of employee's. They want production.

    Apple has the consumer market, RIM still has the business market.



    WinMo 7 is the little train that couldn't
  • Reply 58 of 291
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,253member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grking View Post


    I am not sure I see your point.



    Android took 6 months to sell its first million units, and I am willing to bet that articles were written, or could have been written, stating that the iPhone was outselling Android 10-20 or 30 to 1 a month after Android was released, and look where things stand now.



    This is not to say that WP7 will be a success, but there are no real sales numbers available (one estimate from an anonymous source from an unnamed market research firm does not really count), which is MS's fault, but no one really knows what is happening.



    2 developers griping does not spell doom for WP7, any more than a couple of iOS developers leaving because of problems with the iOS approval process.



    Talking about developers griping is missing the point about what they were saying. The point is that MS is holding back sales data as they are about the phone itself. In addition, for the same reasons, I would imagine, they are holding payments for several months.



    We could speculate why this is happening, but I can't find a valid business reason for doing so other than keeping it quiet until enough sales are built up so that it looks decent, even though a long time would have been needed to get there.



    Considering how many phones went on sale at once, I think that at least a couple of hundred thousand should have been sold in the first weekend, or at least in the first week, to be thinking that this wasn't bombing. If it's true that sales were in the low tens of thousands, then that would be very bad. With The Pre, it was one manufacturer, with WP7, it's four or five. How many phones does a manufacturer need to sell within a certain period of time to want to continue manufacturing?
  • Reply 59 of 291
    If I didn't hate google with a vengeance I would be glad to see ms fail. I don't want them to right now. But can they help it? It seems they can't.
  • Reply 60 of 291
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post


    No one was disputing that Apple had some bumps in the road along the way, but there is and always has been good sales analytics and timely payments on Apple's part regarding their devs. Plus, there's also, you know, a viable market for said developers, unlike literally everything Microsoft has thrown out in the mobile space over the past 3 years.



    Plus, what "vaporware" has Apple announced and not delivered? And no, simply a different color of an identical product that is out already and is uber-popular does not count.



    The payments and sales data sent anything surprising though. Its been on MS's site for months that the first payments will be in feburary, along with details on how you get stats on sales data. This articles basically quoted 2 people who didn't bother to read the process details when they signed up.



    As for the reports of slow sales, they also sit next to reports of a lack of devices making them meaningless.
Sign In or Register to comment.