He said they have a long way to go, which they do. It's also very different from what Ballmer said
Which is why I said similar and not "exact". My read on his post was that he's implying that Android is not good for tablets, just like Ballmer's implied back in 2007 that the iPhone wouldn't be good as a phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
You tell me. It was your attempt at obfuscation through redefinition. No need to try to change the subject either.
Ok, I'll bite.
There was a comment about the buttons on the Moto tablet. At the time, all we had to go on were pictures of the video taken at the All Things D event, so it looked like there were no buttons on the tablet, hence matrix07's questions. This morning, the video itself was released online and it seems that the buttons are capacitive.
If it makes you feel better, I'll change it from "traditional" to "push-button". I used the word "traditional" because when most people think of a button, they think of something you press and move into a slot to complete a circuit. It's a mechanical device.
Whereas the capacitive "button" isn't really a button at all. It's more of just an open circuit that is closed when any conductive material is put over it. You could say that a resistive pad would be analogous to the push-button.
During the interview, Rubin also showed off the just announced Nexus S smartphone
I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?
UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".
I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?
UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".
Partly answers my first question.
Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.
Most likely Verizon's Motorola 10 inch Stingray featuring a dual-core Terga 2 processor, 1gb RAM, crazy fast GPU, and all that Android Honeycomb goodness.
Game On!
Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:
"That?s the nature of open," Rubin said. "That?s actually a feature of Android."
It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".
Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:
"That?s the nature of open," Rubin said. "That?s actually a feature of Android."
It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".
You already posted this. Spamming is annoying, please stop.
Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.
Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.
Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB
Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..
I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
NFS that came preinstalled on my DX is close to 100 MB. I'm sure that's not the only 3D game out there for Android.
How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?
You said they they all have four, with the same functions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
Yes and no. Yes in that it is different (I have no idea why) in placement. No in that it's always the same four buttons and they all do the same four functions (default) on every phone.
Twice
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
However, at least it's the exact same four buttons being used. It did take my brain a day or two to overwrite my muscle memory from the button placement between the Droid and the X, but it wasn't a completely impossible task..
Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.
With Google's Honeycomb Android update customized specifically for tablets, the rivalry between iOS and Android should heat up next year.
Only if Apple stops releasing new hardware and/or new versions of the iOS. Otherwise Google will catch up to where Apple was, Apple will again leapfrog them and so it continues...
Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.
Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.
Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB
Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..
I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.
Good for you guys! Here's a cookie for winning the...File Size War?
I don't think anyone's really losing any sleep over what you just said. Though I am now hungry for some snacks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?
You got me there. Android's screwed! Head for the hills!
But seriously. I did forget about the X10 and the Streak. The Galaxy S (worldwide version it looks like you put up) I actually didn't know only had the menu and back keys. All variants in the US have all four keys. That's interesting.
I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
Since it was a demo, not a flashy animation video I think it?s safe to say it?s not vapourware.
Until it ships it's vapourware. There are degree's of vapor - and I don't doubt it will ship one day, but just like the RIM tablet until the average joe public person can put his mitts on it, it's all but a glimmer in marketing's eye...
Apparently it does for some of the people complaining about Dragon Hunter issues in the Gameloft twitter feed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
Not true, as all modern Android devices are eligible for updates, and only much older hardware gets left out, just as older iPhones/iPod Touch device don't get the latest iOS updates.
Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes, or worse there is a problem with the upgrade that may require warranty replacement of the phone. Thus most manufacturers have limited or no experience with actually preparing and deploying updates. Remember, a carrier gets no revenue from an update.
Doing this type of work requires a major shift in the internal product development model of manufacturers - now software has to be considered a first class product along with the hardware. It will be years before the cultural shifts take place in the manufacturers - it is a change that will likely require the replacement of the engineering & marketing management team from the VP down to the first line managers.
Yes, in theory almost every Android phone could be updated, but in practice only a few models actually are, and those only on selected carriers.
Aside from Apple, only RIM has this kind of experience. (Assuming HP drops the phone portion of Palm).
Apparently it does for some of the people complaining about Dragon Hunter issues in the Gameloft twitter feed.
Considering that "Dragon Hunter" doesn't exist as a Gameloft game, I still don't think anyone's losing any sleep over it. Dungeon Hunter (the game you probably meant?)...still probably not.
I don't use Twitter, but from what I've read, the issues are with Gameloft's servers trying to keep up with the demand for all the downloads over the give-aways. Not surprising when you give title away for free.
Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes
I think it's far simpler than that. If they can force updates only with new phones, they can get you to re-sign a new contract and be able to show guaranteed revenue.
It's all about cash flow.
I'm sure support costs are a factor, but I can guarantee you they are secondary to security a primary source of guaranteed, steady revenue.
It looks like there are no buttons in the physical sense (capacitive maybe?). There's a point where the camera's looking over Rubin's shoulder (roughly the 4:00 mark) and you can see what looks like four white icons glowing on the bottom left corner that doesn't look to be part of the screen. After a while, they stop glowing and the area goes dark. And right after, the screen itself dims.
Did we watch the same video? There were no physical or capacitive 4 buttons on the device. The Home, Menu, and Back buttons follow you within the OS' UI depending on orientation. Rubin says as much when the woman asks. This makes perfect sense as if they had a fixed position on the device, you'd be forced to hold it in a certain way (e.g. upside down portrait would be wrong). Not to mention stretching to reach them when in Landscape would get irritating, or when they face your non dominant hand. The search button isn't needed as it has the real estate to just display the search bar all the time, unlike a phone, which is why there were only three.
Comments
I hate to turn things personal, but it just seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing against me at this point.
"Pretend there weren't physical buttons" where? On the Moto tablet shown or in life in general?
You tell me. It was your attempt at obfuscation through redefinition. No need to try to change the subject either.
He said they have a long way to go, which they do. It's also very different from what Ballmer said
Which is why I said similar and not "exact". My read on his post was that he's implying that Android is not good for tablets, just like Ballmer's implied back in 2007 that the iPhone wouldn't be good as a phone.
You tell me. It was your attempt at obfuscation through redefinition. No need to try to change the subject either.
Ok, I'll bite.
There was a comment about the buttons on the Moto tablet. At the time, all we had to go on were pictures of the video taken at the All Things D event, so it looked like there were no buttons on the tablet, hence matrix07's questions. This morning, the video itself was released online and it seems that the buttons are capacitive.
If it makes you feel better, I'll change it from "traditional" to "push-button". I used the word "traditional" because when most people think of a button, they think of something you press and move into a slot to complete a circuit. It's a mechanical device.
Whereas the capacitive "button" isn't really a button at all. It's more of just an open circuit that is closed when any conductive material is put over it. You could say that a resistive pad would be analogous to the push-button.
For your further reading:
http://www.eetimes.com/design/analog...-touch-sensing
During the interview, Rubin also showed off the just announced Nexus S smartphone
I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?
UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".
Partly answers my first question.
I have to admit that's one Android phone that i'm liking a lot. When Google refers to this phone as "Pure Google" are they implying that it's free of crapware from the carriers? Would this be a first?
UPDATE: Just read this "After December 16, Nexus S will be sold unlocked and carrier-independent initially through Best Buy stores in the U.S. and after December 20 at Carphone Warehouse stores in the UK.".
Partly answers my first question.
Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.
Most likely Verizon's Motorola 10 inch Stingray featuring a dual-core Terga 2 processor, 1gb RAM, crazy fast GPU, and all that Android Honeycomb goodness.
Game On!
Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:
"That?s the nature of open," Rubin said. "That?s actually a feature of Android."
It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".
Look at all the little craplets on that tablet. (By craplet, I mean apps installed by the manufacturer or carrier that can't be removed.) Rubin says they're a feature:
"That?s the nature of open," Rubin said. "That?s actually a feature of Android."
It's been widely reported. Just Google (oh the irony) "Rubin defends craplets".
You already posted this. Spamming is annoying, please stop.
Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.
Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.
Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB
Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..
I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.
NFS that came preinstalled on my DX is close to 100 MB. I'm sure that's not the only 3D game out there for Android.
How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?
You said they they all have four, with the same functions?
Yes and no. Yes in that it is different (I have no idea why) in placement. No in that it's always the same four buttons and they all do the same four functions (default) on every phone.
Twice
However, at least it's the exact same four buttons being used. It did take my brain a day or two to overwrite my muscle memory from the button placement between the Droid and the X, but it wasn't a completely impossible task..
Yes, "Pure Google" means completely stock OS. Technically speaking, the G1 and Droid were the first two phones with stock OSs. Then came the Nexus One and now the Nexus S.
Thanks for the feedback
With Google's Honeycomb Android update customized specifically for tablets, the rivalry between iOS and Android should heat up next year.
Only if Apple stops releasing new hardware and/or new versions of the iOS. Otherwise Google will catch up to where Apple was, Apple will again leapfrog them and so it continues...
Is that a security tether in the photo?
The cynical side of me would point out it's probably a power cable needed to run the thing for more than 10 minutes.
The practical side of me would probably point out it's to mirror the video for display on stage.
Perhaps 802.11n status affirmation should also be based on minimum attained results not just protocol in spec sheets.
Perhaps consumers should just realize that none of this stuff is as it appears. Take 4G speeds, for instance...
meh, come back when it's ten times bigger.
Hey SonyEricsson might be releasing Froyo for the X10 in Q2 next year, last weeks update to eclair killed Angry Birds for me.
Have you been following Gameloft's twitter feed, they've been giving away iOS and Android games.
Driver for iPhone was day one, 500+MB
Dungeon Hunter for Android was day 3 and what a mess that was, more whining than JFK, from fragmented Android users who couldn't get the game to work with their various handsets..
I'd rather have the real thing than some lame imitation.
Good for you guys! Here's a cookie for winning the...File Size War?
I don't think anyone's really losing any sleep over what you just said. Though I am now hungry for some snacks...
How come the Galaxy S, Experia X10 and Dell Streak only have three buttons?
You got me there. Android's screwed! Head for the hills!
But seriously. I did forget about the X10 and the Streak. The Galaxy S (worldwide version it looks like you put up) I actually didn't know only had the menu and back keys. All variants in the US have all four keys. That's interesting.
I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
Since it was a demo, not a flashy animation video I think it?s safe to say it?s not vapourware.
Until it ships it's vapourware. There are degree's of vapor - and I don't doubt it will ship one day, but just like the RIM tablet until the average joe public person can put his mitts on it, it's all but a glimmer in marketing's eye...
I will say that at the very least, the buttons they do have are mapped (by default) to the same functions as the rest of the Android lineup. So it's not like the manufacturers went all crazy and put something like the camera shutter button up there. So I revise my statement to say the vast majority of Android devices have the same four function buttons.
Not true, as all modern Android devices are eligible for updates, and only much older hardware gets left out, just as older iPhones/iPod Touch device don't get the latest iOS updates.
Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes, or worse there is a problem with the upgrade that may require warranty replacement of the phone. Thus most manufacturers have limited or no experience with actually preparing and deploying updates. Remember, a carrier gets no revenue from an update.
Doing this type of work requires a major shift in the internal product development model of manufacturers - now software has to be considered a first class product along with the hardware. It will be years before the cultural shifts take place in the manufacturers - it is a change that will likely require the replacement of the engineering & marketing management team from the VP down to the first line managers.
Yes, in theory almost every Android phone could be updated, but in practice only a few models actually are, and those only on selected carriers.
Aside from Apple, only RIM has this kind of experience. (Assuming HP drops the phone portion of Palm).
Apparently it does for some of the people complaining about Dragon Hunter issues in the Gameloft twitter feed.
Considering that "Dragon Hunter" doesn't exist as a Gameloft game, I still don't think anyone's losing any sleep over it.
I don't use Twitter, but from what I've read, the issues are with Gameloft's servers trying to keep up with the demand for all the downloads over the give-aways. Not surprising when you give title away for free.
Android updates are primarily controlled by carriers, not the manufacturers. Carriers do not like updates due the increased support costs that are incurred when the operation of the phone or included applications changes
I think it's far simpler than that. If they can force updates only with new phones, they can get you to re-sign a new contract and be able to show guaranteed revenue.
It's all about cash flow.
I'm sure support costs are a factor, but I can guarantee you they are secondary to security a primary source of guaranteed, steady revenue.
It looks like there are no buttons in the physical sense (capacitive maybe?). There's a point where the camera's looking over Rubin's shoulder (roughly the 4:00 mark) and you can see what looks like four white icons glowing on the bottom left corner that doesn't look to be part of the screen. After a while, they stop glowing and the area goes dark. And right after, the screen itself dims.
Did we watch the same video? There were no physical or capacitive 4 buttons on the device. The Home, Menu, and Back buttons follow you within the OS' UI depending on orientation. Rubin says as much when the woman asks. This makes perfect sense as if they had a fixed position on the device, you'd be forced to hold it in a certain way (e.g. upside down portrait would be wrong). Not to mention stretching to reach them when in Landscape would get irritating, or when they face your non dominant hand. The search button isn't needed as it has the real estate to just display the search bar all the time, unlike a phone, which is why there were only three.