Apple disabled jailbreak detection API in iOS 4.2

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  • Reply 21 of 79
    dreyfus2dreyfus2 Posts: 1,072member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Though jailbreaking an Apple device voids its warranty, the U.S. government recently legalized the process through a handful of exemptions to preexisting laws forbidding it.



    This is not entirely correct.



    "To clarify, Apple does not deny all warranty service to an iPhone just because it has been jailbroken. For example, if a particular user?s iPhone were to have a hardware defect in materials or workmanship within the warranty period that was not caused by jailbreaking, Apple would provide warranty service to that phone, notwithstanding the fact that it had been jailbroken."



    From Apple's response to the Copyright Office, page 13. Document (PDF) can be found here:



    https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/d...of-6-23-09.pdf
  • Reply 22 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iax View Post


    Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?

    On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).



    You have no idea what you're talking about.



    Apple cares about jailbreaking because Steve Jobs wants to control the user experience. Jailbreaking allows the user to control the experience.



    From a practical standpoint, Apple is not released from warranty obligations since the user can simply restore the iPhone to the original condition and return it for warranty work.



    There are quite a few apps that have not been allowed into the App Store due to Apple restrictions. These Apps are on Cydia and available to users of jailbroken iPhones. The Cydia apps are similar to the App store since some are free and others are paid. The only difference is that Cydia allows apps that may be rejected by Apple. These apps are tested and safe. None will "brick" an iPhone.



    People who do not jailbreak are like sheep who follow the doctrine set forth by Steve Jobs. People who jailbreak like to control their own destiny and experience.



    Jailbeaking is legal. The government, for once, made a logical and appropriate ruling. As for stealing software, this is an act that a few people will do no matter what device they own. Microsoft had to institute their Genuine Microsoft Product Validation in an attempt to prevent people from stealing Windows software. iSerialBox published serial numbers for turning trial versions into full versions. And people will hack iPhone apps and steal them too. Fortunately, the percentage of people who steal software is low. There are 2 billion app store downloads. There is no lack of money for app developers and jailbreaking is not, in and of itself, a threat to developer revenue.



    Personally, I like FaceTime. But I'm not always on WiFi. Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? Jailbreak and 3G Unrestrictor allows me to use FaceTime whenever I want. I also seem to have gotten on a couple of telemarketer calling lists. I can't get them to take me off their list and the National Do Not Call Registry is useless. iBlacklist is a Cydia app that lets me block callers. Now instead of having to pay for a telemarketer's phone call with me minutes, I can block their number and not be bothered again. Why Apple would not allow this in the app store, I don't know. Unless AT&T wants me to receive these calls so they can charge me more and put pressure on Apple to prevent this app.



    I'm not stealing apps, I'm not stealing from AT&T and I'm not letting Apple dictate my user experience.



    So call me a moron if you wish, but for me, I'm having a much better iPhone user experience.
  • Reply 23 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iax View Post


    Apple does not care about jailbreaking, it still gets the money for the hardware, and release them of any warranty obligations. What's not to like?

    On the other hand, most people who jailbreak their iPhones are either morons or geeks (same thing).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    Evidence please?



    I find it very hard to believe that "millions" of the original iPhone were sold specifically to jailbreak. I even find it hard to believe that "millions" of all iPhones ever sold have been jailbroken. Most people don't choose to do things that void their warranty.



    You can check with Saurik (Cydia developer). SHSH hashes are saved on his servers for most all jailbroken iPhones. SHSH are unique to specific devices. If SHSH hashes are on file with Cydia, then the device has most likely been jailbroken. Numbers are indeed available. According to Saurik, 10% of iPhones are jailbroken.
  • Reply 24 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    I save $50 a month on my unlocked iPhone by using T-Mobile which 1) has better rate plans, and 2) doesn't require me to have an expensive data plan. That is over a five hundred dollar a year savings. I am neither a geek or moron, I am just cheap and like T-Mobile better.



    Good for you! I'm still with AT&T, but according to a very recent survey, AT&T rates at the very bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. I applaud you for jailbreaking, unlocking and going with T-Mobile. You've got a great phone with a better carrier.
  • Reply 25 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    edit: Pipped by Cinemagic with a better solution.
  • Reply 26 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post


    Good for you! I'm still with AT&T, but according to a very recent survey, AT&T rates at the very bottom of the list for customer satisfaction. I applaud you for jailbreaking, unlocking and going with T-Mobile. You've got a great phone with a better carrier.



    I can?t agree with T-Mobile with an iPhone being the better choice (speaking only of my situation, of course). Since EDGE data is the best I could get on T-Mobile it?s a non-starter for me at this point. I get several Mbps on average, both up and down, with AT&T, and there is only a couple hundred feet on one highway that I drive that I ever experience an issue with their service.



    On top of that, Apple?s iPhone call center in the US for iPhone related issues/questions when you dial 611 has been great. It makes the few times I needed to call 611 very nice. I can even say AT&T?s call center training has improved greatly and haven?t had a bad experience from them in years.
  • Reply 27 of 79
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    I save $50 a month on my unlocked iPhone by using T-Mobile which 1) has better rate plans, and 2) doesn't require me to have an expensive data plan. That is over a five hundred dollar a year savings. I am neither a geek or moron, I am just cheap and like T-Mobile better.



    I do the same and the savings is huge.



    ATT

    $90-1500 minute Plan

    $30-Family Texting Plan

    $20-Add two phones for children

    $40-Adding one minimal and one 2 gig data plan

    $180 month total



    Tmobile

    $80- 1500 minute talk and unlimited text plan

    $10- Add two phones for children

    $20- Two unlimited data plans for two off-contract iPhones

    $110 month total



    I'm saving $70 a month or $1680 over two years. Tmobile really is a good company. If Apple unlocked all prior iPhones Tmobile offers 200 megs of data for $10 a month and most people would never use more than that over EDGE. The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.
  • Reply 28 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post


    You have no idea what you're talking about.



    Apple cares about jailbreaking because Steve Jobs wants to control the user experience. Jailbreaking allows the user to control the experience. ...



    ... People who do not jailbreak are like sheep who follow the doctrine set forth by Steve Jobs. People who jailbreak like to control their own destiny and experience.



    ... Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? ...



    It's clear from your comments that you are having some issues with your own emotions on this topic. It's always interesting to hear the reasoning of people who seem obsessed with "Steve Jobs controlling their experience." But the reason why you don't have full control of your phone without jailbreaking/rooting it (an issue with every phone out there, including purportedly "open" Android phones is twofold.



    First, all carriers, not just AT&T, want to control bandwidth and service usage on their networks. One of the ways to do this is to control what applications are allowed to run on the device and what they are allowed to do. Apple has certain contractual obligations with AT&T to control that by controlling how apps get installed and what apps get installed. So, it's not "Steve Jobs" controlling your FaceTime usage", it's AT&T.



    Second, it's necessary, to be able to implement required levels of enterprise security to "lock down" the "system" to a certain degree. If it's wide open, it's much more difficult to control what happens on the device. There are always going to be security issues on any system -- to anticipate invalid criticisms of this point -- but that doesn't mean you ought to intentionally create more. So, again, if Apple wants to be in that market, they need to offer a device with a certain level of control over what happens on it. Just think of how corporate IT departments lock down traditional computers, and the features that OS vendors must add to allow them to do so. Again, it's not "Steve Jobs" controlling your user experience," it's the realities of the marketplace.



    A third benefit, and one that you are unwilling to acknowledge, seemingly for strong emotional reasons of your own, is that jailbreaking/rooting does in fact open the doors to wide-scale piracy. Whether any given individual pirates software or not, or what their intentions are, is irrelevant. The simple fact is that piracy is common among jailbreakers, and, in fact, is so common on Android that the developers can't realize revenue from their apps by selling them, but only by turning them into ad platforms -- a situation that surely warms hearts at Google, and is intended by them. Personally, I think it's well worth putting up with some restrictions on my phone so that I don't have to look at ads in every app I use. And, once again, it's not, "Steve Jobs" controlling your user experience," it's the realities of making a platform attractive for developers, and not completely overrun by ads for users.



    I suggest you try to think about this topic with a little more reason and a little less emotion, and not worry so much about "the man".
  • Reply 29 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post


    Personally, I like FaceTime. But I'm not always on WiFi. Apple does not allow me to use FaceTime unless I'm on a WiFi network. Why? Because AT&T doesn't have the capability to carry the data traffic if everyone were to use it. Well, I pay AT&T for data. Since I pay for what I use, why can't I use this data as I see fit? Jailbreak and 3G Unrestrictor allows me to use FaceTime whenever I want. I also seem to have gotten on a couple of telemarketer calling lists. I can't get them to take me off their list and the National Do Not Call Registry is useless. iBlacklist is a Cydia app that lets me block callers. Now instead of having to pay for a telemarketer's phone call with me minutes, I can block their number and not be bothered again. Why Apple would not allow this in the app store, I don't know. Unless AT&T wants me to receive these calls so they can charge me more and put pressure on Apple to prevent this app.



    You?re destroying your own argument as you make it. You want to you your device as it suits your best interest. Well Apple is doing the exact same thing.



    FaceTime worked fine for me over AT&T?s network when i tried it, but that isn?t the same as saying that FaceTime will work fine for 10 million iPhone users on AT&T if they opened it up last June with the iOS 4.0 release. We can use the over saturation of users testing MobileMe as an example of what network congestion can do to a user experience and how that stigma can carry for years even though the issue only last for a few days for pretty much every user.



    Doesn?t Apple have a right to protect their business? Just because something it technically possible doesn?t mean it should be done. Given the issues I still hear of people in congested cities I think Apple was right not to give a blanket release of FaceTime over cellular networks.



    As you noted, you can use the data as you see fit, you just have to take an extra step because is conducting business the way they see fit. Why is that such an issue for people?
  • Reply 30 of 79
    normmnormm Posts: 645member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cinemagic View Post


    Fortunately, the percentage of people who steal software is low. There are 2 billion app store downloads. There is no lack of money for app developers and jailbreaking is not, in and of itself, a threat to developer revenue.



    I don't know where you get your data to back up this assertion. For example, an article early this year at 24/7 Wall Street says:



    While it is difficult to get a firm grasp on exact piracy rates, some developers have put features in their software that prompt it to ?phone home? when the phone has been cracked. Developer testimonials put the figure much higher than many analysts would expect. Developers Neptune Interactive Inc and Smells Like Donkey Inc have reported piracy rates has high as 90% for their game $1.99 Tap-Fu, and claim that it was available in a pirated version within 40 minutes of its release on the App Store. Web Scout Inc. reports a 75% piracy rate for its $0.99 iCombat game. The developer of the $4.99 art program, Layers, reports a piracy rate of 75%, and Fish Labs reports 95% for its $7 Rally Master Pro 3D. Piracy rates almost certainly increase with the cost of an application. TomTom?s US & Canada GPS product for the iPhone, which retails for $79.99, ranks second in handheld application downloads on piratebay.com, a file-sharing torrent. The top 100 downloads listed at piratebay.com is littered with expensive TomTom and Garmin GPS products. A conservative estimate of the average piracy rate is that for every paid application developed and sold at the App Store 3 more are pirated.
  • Reply 31 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NormM View Post


    I don't know where you get your data to back up this assertion. For example, an article early this year at 24/7 Wall Street says:



    While it is difficult to get a firm grasp on exact piracy rates, some developers have put features in their software that prompt it to ?phone home? when the phone has been cracked. Developer testimonials put the figure much higher than many analysts would expect. Developers Neptune Interactive Inc and Smells Like Donkey Inc have reported piracy rates has high as 90% for their game $1.99 Tap-Fu, and claim that it was available in a pirated version within 40 minutes of its release on the App Store. Web Scout Inc. reports a 75% piracy rate for its $0.99 iCombat game. The developer of the $4.99 art program, Layers, reports a piracy rate of 75%, and Fish Labs reports 95% for its $7 Rally Master Pro 3D. Piracy rates almost certainly increase with the cost of an application. TomTom?s US & Canada GPS product for the iPhone, which retails for $79.99, ranks second in handheld application downloads on piratebay.com, a file-sharing torrent. The top 100 downloads listed at piratebay.com is littered with expensive TomTom and Garmin GPS products. A conservative estimate of the average piracy rate is that for every paid application developed and sold at the App Store 3 more are pirated.



    I think devs should be pressuring Apple to allow native App Store trial periods. The App Store is a convenient, but having to shell out $50 to try TomTom for iOS is far outside the typical impulse buy range. When TomTom first came out I installed a crack version of it to test it. I didn?t care for it since there was no backgrounding for it at the time so I deleted it. Now I have it (purchased from the App Store) and it?s great. If they allowed the trial I can see users just using the convenient App Store and then not bothering with finding a cracked copy if they like the app, or if they tested it as I did they may simply not delete the cracked version and buy it from the App Store as that, too, is inconvenient.



    BiteSMS from the Cydia store has a nifty setup. The trial is fully functional and then switches to an ad supported version. That model won?t work for every developer, but I think it?s a model that could work for enough users and allow a more streamlined process for app purchases and clean up the App Store?s multiple full and Lite versions.
  • Reply 32 of 79
    pwjpwj Posts: 19member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.





    ...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.



    Contrast this to the situation in Europe, where most countries require telcos to unlock out-of-contract handsets on request of the customer. e.g. once you've finished up your two year contract on Orange, you can take your handset and slap in whatever SIM you want





    Gotta love US corporate law
  • Reply 33 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pwj View Post


    ...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.



    Contrast this to the situation in Europe, where most countries require telcos to unlock out-of-contract handsets on request of the customer. e.g. once you've finished up your two year contract on Orange, you can take your handset and slap in whatever SIM you want





    Gotta love US corporate law



    And they say that customers are "loyal" to their carriers. Duh! They have no other choice if they want to keep their phone.
  • Reply 34 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pwj View Post


    ...except in the US, AT&T isn't required to unlock out-of-contract iPhones. It's ridiculous: after you've spend one / two years on the carrier fulfilling the terms of your contract and paying back the handset subsidy, you are not allowed to use your device on any other network besides AT&T.



    While I think there should be legislation that requires a a phone to be unlockable upon request after the contract is fulfilled, I don?t think it?s ?not allowed? only that it?s not ?required? as you initially state.
  • Reply 35 of 79
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    ...and other repositories of hacked (i.e. stolen) Apps.



    I wish the "holier than thou" jailbreakers would cut the BULLSHIT!
  • Reply 36 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    A repository of stolen Apps.



    I wish the "holier than thou" jailbreakers would cut the BULLSHIT!



    People often do steal apps. People often due a lot of illegal or immoral things, but that doesn?t mean that it should be illegal or that stealing should be attributed to all jailbreakers and unlockers.



    Having a web browser on any desktop OS means you can download cracked desktop apps, but I haven?t heard anyone cry foul on web browsers or the internet as a whole on these forums.
  • Reply 37 of 79
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bartfat View Post


    And they say that customers are "loyal" to their carriers. Duh! They have no other choice if they want to keep their phone.



    How many Droids (eg Verizon phones) are being used on AT&T or T-Mo?
  • Reply 38 of 79
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    How many Droids (eg Verizon phones) are being used on AT&T or T-Mo?



    Zero.
  • Reply 39 of 79
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Good comparisons. I use the $69 a month family plan. That includes two lines with 700 shared minutes. Nights and weekends are free and it is a fav five plan so minutes are deducted from the five numbers I use the most. I do not need a data plan because I usually have access to wi-fi in public or at home.



    The only time I really would like a data plan is for map functions. If I wanted to add that, as you point out that comes to ten or twenty dollars a month additional depending on whether I want it on both lines or not. Edge is fine for mapping and occasional Internet usage.



    By me in Ann Arbor Michigan the only time I have ever experienced drop calls is with my friends using AT&T.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    I do the same and the savings is huge.



    ATT

    $90-1500 minute Plan

    $30-Family Texting Plan

    $20-Add two phones for children

    $40-Adding one minimal and one 2 gig data plan

    $180 month total



    Tmobile

    $80- 1500 minute talk and unlimited text plan

    $10- Add two phones for children

    $20- Two unlimited data plans for two off-contract iPhones

    $110 month total



    I'm saving $70 a month or $1680 over two years. Tmobile really is a good company. If Apple unlocked all prior iPhones Tmobile offers 200 megs of data for $10 a month and most people would never use more than that over EDGE. The concern shouldn't just be a mass exodus of users from AT&T to Verizon. There should also be a large concern over how many AT&T users who are off contract might take their already perfectly functioning iPhones and run them over to Tmobile if it ever became so easy to use them as to not require jailbreaking, unlocking and installation of certain hacks to enable picture messaging, push notifications, etc.



  • Reply 40 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    Evidence please?



    I find it very hard to believe that "millions" of the original iPhone were sold specifically to jailbreak. I even find it hard to believe that "millions" of all iPhones ever sold have been jailbroken. Most people don't choose to do things that void their warranty.



    well - a jailbreak is 100% reversible - a little research - and it's a no brainer.
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