Google rewarms Android Market, still half baked next to iPhone App Store

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  • Reply 101 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lolwhat View Post


    Those are two different games.



    I can only assume that you mistakenly linked to the incorrect Android video, so I took the liberty of finding the correct one for you.



    You're welcome!



    I understand loving your device and showing support for it. But how hill60 knowingly misrepresents Android by using trailers from the dumbphone version of Avatar is just sad.



    By his subsequent posts,I get the feeling that even if we got Gameloft to demo both games on both platforms side-by-side for him, he'll claim that the Android version was nothing more than a perfectly timed video.



    For what it's worth, I played Let's Golf and Let's Golf 2 on both the iPad and Galaxy Tab while I was waiting for my friend to finish some business at a Verizon store. I loved it so I bought it from Gameloft right in the store. Besides a larger screen, there was absolutely no difference in my experience between the Tab, iPad, and my DX.
  • Reply 102 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    It is when people are misled into believing that they will experience games on Android, based on a trailer and find that they end up with a VERY different experience due to games made to run in Dalvik, (Googles non license compliant version of a JVM), which are made to run on the lowest common denominator.



    Thing is, the HD versions of the game require a certain minimum spec level to play it. It's not different than the PC/Mac gaming world. If you bought a computer with low specs, then it's not unfair that you can't run a graphically intensive game.



    What you're saying is similar to Crytek putting out a trailer for Crysis and then you crying foul that it won't run like that on computers that don't meet the minimum specs.



    So for Gameloft to put that trailer out for the Avatar HD game for high-end Android devices (which runs exactly like Gameloft's video shows, might I add), they are misleading no one.
  • Reply 103 of 115
    enohpienohpi Posts: 103member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkie View Post


    What is my mom supposed to do with this screen?



    She can just click "install" and if she is using regular software, everything will work as intended.





    I think that most people like your Mom have a wonderful son who helps them with stuff like installing software, however. Anybody ever gotten a call with a Mac question from a relative?
  • Reply 104 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkie View Post


    This is a perfect example of why Android sucks. What is my mom supposed to do with this screen? How is an everyday user supposed to know whether they are getting hacked from this? Like write access to an SD card, uh ok, what are the implications of that again?? I lose everything? Great. Thanks for the warning, I'll just skip the whole freakin platform.





    When you are ready to graduate to a real smart phone platform where you no longer have daddy Steve Jobs taking you by the hand and no longer need the baby protective barriers of his walled garden, Android will be waiting for you.



    Or you can stay in kindergarten all your life. Why not, after all, you have no responsibility.
  • Reply 105 of 115
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by enohpI View Post


    She can just click "install" and if she is using regular software, everything will work as intended.





    I think that most people like your Mom have a wonderful son who helps them with stuff like installing software, however. Anybody ever gotten a call with a Mac question from a relative?



    How does she know it is "regular" software? What does that even mean in an un-policed zone like the Android store? The point is that on the AppStore from Apple, she can download what ever she wants and not worry that some evil action is going to occur. There certainly is a lot of crap up on Apple's store but I can be confident and she can be confident that none of it poses a risk to the user.



    This sort of warning is just bogus. What does it even tell me? My information is potentially at risk because of this app? How do I as an end user not the good actors from the bad with this sort of notice?
  • Reply 106 of 115
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    When you are ready to graduate to a real smart phone platform where you no longer have daddy Steve Jobs taking you by the hand and no longer need the baby protective barriers of his walled garden, Android will be waiting for you.



    Or you can stay in kindergarten all your life. Why not, after all, you have no responsibility.



    Why are you attacking me? Is it because your argument is so weak? Why were you even showing that picture? To me it represents the biggest failure of Android - that it is posing as something anyone can use but really it has all this nasty technical stuff there exposed that no one understands or wants to. That is not more mature, its just bad. No reason for that. It just means they did not know what the hell they were doing and they are experimenting on users in a bad way.



    You are wrong if you really think that sort of warning means that the platform is smarter. Who wants to buy stuff from a market where there is no inspections for quality and hazard? Are you happy eating in a restaurant that is not inspected by the health department? Do you want to buy toys for your kids where there is no one checking to see if there is lead in them? It is the same story with software.



    It is not a question of paternalism, it is a question of reasonable oversight. We don't all need to be inspectors. It is better to have a central place where things can be reviewed to make sure that the software is not taking a bad action. Then it can be released to the wide open market for people to evaluate for themselves. There is no reason to expose everyone to malicious code to "help" them become advanced. On the contrary, the Apple system is awesome because anyone, my mom, my sister, my neighbor, all the people who might otherwise ask me for help, who might otherwise be worried about viruses or what not, can just go up there and buy something with reasonable confidence that nothing bad is going to happen. They don't ever ask for help with iOS, they don't need to.



    We so often hear the whining from developers about how Apple is hurting them by checking their app before release. What we don't hear is how awesome the experience is for consumers. They are having a ball downloading apps, trying new things. Happily paying for stuff they have never heard of but want to try. It totally works well. And they don't have to see that sort of BS warning Android shows.
  • Reply 107 of 115
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    When you are ready to graduate to a real smart phone platform where you no longer have daddy Steve Jobs taking you by the hand and no longer need the baby protective barriers of his walled garden, Android will be waiting for you.



    Or you can stay in kindergarten all your life. Why not, after all, you have no responsibility.



    So why don't you be specific about this handholding?



    I think you'll find that there aren't terribly many things that Apps can't do these days.



    Quit with the generic bullshit, it's boring.
  • Reply 108 of 115
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    This actually proves the point that people are going to allow Android apps to do whatever the heck the app wants. Why is Tetris asking for all those permissions? Doesn't make sense. It really is Vista UAC all over again.



    As you or someone mentioned maybe the issue is lack of granularity in the asking for permissions.



    Location: I'm getting there is a social networking aspect of this app. More than likely this is clearly listed in the description



    Personal information: Challenge your friends to tetris!



    Network access: This part is pretty obvious, no?



    Storage: It needs space to store on SD card.. a lot of users won't download a game unless it's capable of being moved to SD card.



    Phonecalls: The app runs in full screen mode. It needs to know if a call is coming in so it will minimize.



    iOS applications can access similar information. They just don't tell you what.
  • Reply 109 of 115
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    Location: I'm getting there is a social networking aspect of this app. More than likely this is clearly listed in the description



    Personal information: Challenge your friends to tetris!



    Network access: This part is pretty obvious, no?



    Storage: It needs space to store on SD card.. a lot of users won't download a game unless it's capable of being moved to SD card.



    Phonecalls: The app runs in full screen mode. It needs to know if a call is coming in so it will minimize.



    iOS applications can access similar information. They just don't tell you what.



    The thing is that if nearly every app is using all of these functions, then what is the point of the warning? Also, each of these domains tells me very little about what could happen with this app.
  • Reply 110 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkie View Post


    Why are you attacking me? Is it because your argument is so weak?



    Because you complained that Android has no security, as if it just blindly allows whatever.





    Quote:

    Why were you even showing that picture? To me it represents the biggest failure of Android - that it is posing as something anyone can use but really it has all this nasty technical stuff there exposed that no one understands or wants to. That is not more mature, its just bad. No reason for that. It just means they did not know what the hell they were doing and they are experimenting on users in a bad way.



    You are wrong if you really think that sort of warning means that the platform is smarter. Who wants to buy stuff from a market where there is no inspections for quality and hazard? Are you happy eating in a restaurant that is not inspected by the health department? Do you want to buy toys for your kids where there is no one checking to see if there is lead in them? It is the same story with software.



    Who said Android apps didn't have security checks? (not rhetorical)





    Quote:

    It is not a question of paternalism, it is a question of reasonable oversight. We don't all need to be inspectors. It is better to have a central place where things can be reviewed to make sure that the software is not taking a bad action. Then it can be released to the wide open market for people to evaluate for themselves. There is no reason to expose everyone to malicious code to "help" them become advanced. On the contrary, the Apple system is awesome because anyone, my mom, my sister, my neighbor, all the people who might otherwise ask me for help, who might otherwise be worried about viruses or what not, can just go up there and buy something with reasonable confidence that nothing bad is going to happen. They don't ever ask for help with iOS, they don't need to.



    We so often hear the whining from developers about how Apple is hurting them by checking their app before release. What we don't hear is how awesome the experience is for consumers. They are having a ball downloading apps, trying new things. Happily paying for stuff they have never heard of but want to try. It totally works well. And they don't have to see that sort of BS warning Android shows.



    Uh, Apple shows warnings too.



    Well I guess since no one understands it Apple shouldn't have an any options to turn off anything related to privacy?



    I guess they don't need that website either to opt out of location based iAds either huh? Must be nice that you have to browse to a web site to opt out of personalized advertisements.



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4228
  • Reply 111 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    So why don't you be specific about this handholding?



    I think you'll find that there aren't terribly many things that Apps can't do these days.



    Quit with the generic bullshit, it's boring.



    Generic? There's a reason for that: It's the whole fucking iOS ecosystem. No carriers in the US but ATT, no provision to unlock after fulfilling the contract, no political paradies, no porn, no distasteful stuff (although the Android market doesn't allow it either), in 2009 no apps that duplicate Steve's most holy iOS functions, no third party browsers (caved in finally), no unapproved apps, no choice to run flash, hell up until iOS4 you couldn't even change the fucking background.
  • Reply 112 of 115
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    Because you complained that Android has no security, as if it just blindly allows whatever.



    I said nothing of the sort. I said the sort of warnings shown in the photo you posted are stupid - they are. I am not an expert on Android security - I just know bullshit when I see it and those warnings are useless. They do nothing for the user. Is this version of Tetris a good or bad acting app? I know nothing from this warning based on the API's it accesses - no way I could make that judgement. So the result is that every user feels a little like a guinea pig. That sucks.



    Why with the ability to side load apps wouldn't Google review the app store? Pull the illegal content? Curate the content as any retailer does? I will tell you the reason: it is because then they would be validating the types of things that Apple has been doing and they, purely for PR and marketing reasons, don't wan't to be seen as doing that even though it is in the interest of the user and IP holders. Google has this big openness bullshit identity that they think makes them morally superior, it is a fraud. Copyright infringement of the type listed in the article should not be tolerated.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    Who said Android apps didn't have security checks? (not rhetorical)



    Honestly, what are you talking about? Do you consider the warning you showed a security check? How does it help security if I am just going to allow it for every app? If every app is going to access storage, the phone, the internet according to another Fandroid, what is this alert telling me?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    Uh, Apple shows warnings too.



    Apple's warnings about allowing an app to have your location information are totally appropriate. What is your point? My issue is about warning that make sense - that do something useful to help the security of the user.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    I guess they don't need that website either to opt out of location based iAds either huh? Must be nice that you have to browse to a web site to opt out of personalized advertisements.



    Ok, this has little to do with iOS as a platform and everything to do with opting out of the iAd network. So how do I opt out of AdMob? I assume your point is that that is a natively controlled by the user on Android? Looking at the AdMob terms I don't see an opt-out system. So what is your point?
  • Reply 113 of 115
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junkie View Post


    The thing is that if nearly every app is using all of these functions, then what is the point of the warning? Also, each of these domains tells me very little about what could happen with this app.



    Not every app is using those functions



    The point is that you don't know WHAT your iOS apps are accessing.



    And if you download a movie player that needs access to your SMS client, you know not to install it.
  • Reply 114 of 115
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    Not every app is using those functions



    The point is that you don't know WHAT your iOS apps are accessing.



    No the point is that I don't need to care. The apps have been checked over. I don't have to worry about what apps my sister or mother might download. I don't have to worry about whether they understand the implications of a game wanting to access SMS. I am not sure that I want or need to understand that implication for myself.



    And the huge benefit there is that consumers can experiment with apps that might be new or untested in the marketplace without fear. I downloaded an app from a child developer. I had no security worries there. That is part of the reason that the app store has allowed software sales to take off in a way they never could from an un-curated channel.



    With the Android app store I am in a position to need to trust the developer. I need to be concerned with which API the dev is using, I guess I do, at least that is what that warning seems to be saying. Why would I need to care about that stuff if the app has already been vetted by an organization I trust. It is a benefit to the user not to have to worry about that stuff, viruses or any kind of malicious code just should not be in the store at all.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    And if you download a movie player that needs access to your SMS client, you know not to install it.



    Do I? What if it, like Tetris, has some social aspect? Well then I guess it is ok?
  • Reply 115 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    When you are ready to graduate to a real smart phone platform where you no longer have daddy Steve Jobs taking you by the hand and no longer need the baby protective barriers of his walled garden, Android will be waiting for you.



    Or you can stay in kindergarten all your life. Why not, after all, you have no responsibility.



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