Google's Chrome OS assailed by needless, dangerous by critics

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  • Reply 61 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    How exactly is Android designed for this type of I/O when it’s not even ready for tablets?



    But cloud OS is not ready yet either!



    Anyhow my point is that there is little point in a solely cloud based OS. Apple's iPad or a future version of Android will always have the upper hand because of their considerably better yet unburdening local capabilities.
  • Reply 62 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by booradley View Post


    Does anyone really care what Steve Baldmer has to say any more?



    Indeed. Overall, though, an insightful report. Thanks.
  • Reply 63 of 132
    srsly i can't tell who's more stupid in the article that's actually the real story here



    btw is there a tracking site that tracks and scores intentionally sensationalistic titles i mean i get that that's how most of this trade is peddled but metrics would be fun
  • Reply 64 of 132
    pwjpwj Posts: 19member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    I think the other writers at AI need to pull Mr Dilger aside and have a quiet word about writing articles on subjects where he is hopelessly outside of his comfort zone.



    I agree

    Unfortunately, I found that his articles detract from the site. They tend to be based solely on shamelessly attacking Google while providing no new insight or analysis on the matter



    And the notion of an Apple site quoting Stallman! The irony! I can't think of any guy who is more antithetical to Apple's computing philosophy than Stallman. Mr Dilger, you know this man browses the web by downloading webpages as plain text to his email, right? You also know that he also advocates for users having complete control over their hardware and software, down to the right to access and modify the source code, right?



    The GNU GPL. Look it up. Last time I checked, this website seems to hate it (I think I remember some article about the iPad VLC media app)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    Well Google is pretty scary. People have trusted too much of their information with a single entity... That's never a good idea. All the data they have of you has been at one time transmitted over a network. Data mining isn't necessarily a bad thing...



    Meh. That's technology for you.



    A far scarier prospect for me has always been the cellular telcos and Facebook. The telcos essentially know your location all the time that your phone is on their network; we have no privacy of location any more. But I never see people bitching at their cell phone company for keeping records of their location



    Same with Facebook. Half a billion people around the world are actively giving Facebook intimate details about their likes, interests, social conversations, activities (tagged bar photos, anyone?), etc. Total loss of privacy in your personal life

    And Facebook has a terrible track record with privacy. Absolutely terrible



    The price of technologic progress is privacy. That's just how it is.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by poke View Post


    Just wanted to add. The people who are usually taken to be the target audience for cheap Chrome OS-based netbooks (lightweight users who don't need a full computer) are exactly the people who benefit most from the kind of user experience only client-side apps can supply and exactly the people who are buying the iPad in droves.



    Though the iPad can't be used as a primary computing device; it has to be tethered to a mother ship computer running iTunes. I think this is the iPad's single greatest disadvantage; it can't wholly replace a "full" computer.

    Theoretically, a Chrome OS device could be used as a primary computer. From my perspective as a student, I could do serious word processing on some online document service and survive; I can't imagine writing a 4200 word paper on an iPad.
  • Reply 65 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pwj View Post


    Though the iPad can't be used as a primary computing device; it has to be tethered to a mother ship computer running iTunes. I think this is the iPad's single greatest disadvantage; it can't wholly replace a "full" computer.

    Theoretically, a Chrome OS device could be used as a primary computer. From my perspective as a student, I could do serious word processing on some online document service and survive; I can't imagine writing a 4200 word paper on an iPad.



    Why can't the iPad be used as a "primary computing device"? it already is for many, and will be for many more.

    There is no reason why future versions of the iPad cannot do everything a 'traditional' computer can do today, including serious word processing (and if you can't stand the keyboard you can buy a bluetooth one).



    The iPad is defining the future of computing right now. No need for Cloudy OS's. The iPad is not just a toy. Soon the majority of people will use an iPad style device as their primary computer, and only computing professionals will require the need for a 'traditional' computer.
  • Reply 66 of 132
    When I first heard of cloud usage and storage I thought how stupid that would be to anybody concerned about privacy. I do think it has a place for being a repository of programs but only if one can store the results within one's computer. It is possible that the data could be deleted after the cloud program is used.



    Since internet connections are vital to the Chrome OS that would be a big barrier to anyone who uses their computer for things other than surfing the web.



    I think the whole concept of "Apps" has rendered most of Chrome OS unneeded. Having a quick connecting internet browser would be a worthy project for netbooks. As it is, Ubuntu comes close to doing that. More specialized versions would connect faster.



    I don't trust Google so I use STARTPAGE.COM for my browser. They now partner with Google and allow one to use the Google search engine anonymously.
  • Reply 67 of 132
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,486member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) Capable ≠ easy to use.



    2) Windows and Linux on those netbooks were dog slow.



    3) As stated ad nauseam and for the last time Chrome OS and other browser-based OSes have the opportunity to offer a simple and useful satellite computing xperience that feels fast to the user.



    1) Well, Linux doesn't mean "difficult to use." There are many distributions of Linux that are tailor made with simple, easy to use interfaces. In fact there was a distribution called Lindows, sold on WalMart's cheap computers, that made it dead simple for people to maintain and install new software. Guess what? They're all gone - replaced by Windows.



    2) Linux is also an OS that had been ported and optimized for many types of systems, so there's no reason for it to run slow on any class of hardware.



    3) Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think a "browser" based system is necessary or the answer to achieve those things. I also don't think that will make a system feel any faster as well.





    Bottom line, there's no inherent advantage of a system being browser-based.
  • Reply 68 of 132
    sennensennen Posts: 1,468member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pwj View Post


    Meh. That's technology for you.

    <snip>

    The price of technologic progress is privacy. That's just how it is.



    I don't think that its an acceptable position to simply accept the loss of privacy as being unavoidable.



    Quote:

    A far scarier prospect for me has always been the cellular telcos and Facebook.



    Same with Facebook. Half a billion people around the world are actively giving Facebook intimate details about their likes, interests, social conversations, activities (tagged bar photos, anyone?), etc. Total loss of privacy in your personal life

    And Facebook has a terrible track record with privacy. Absolutely terrible



    Unfortunately, where I am at least the law requires identification to be sighted and recorded with the purchase of a mobile phone or pre-paid sim card. It can't be avoided.



    However with Facebook, I agree with you. I don't know why people would actually use their real names on that thing. I don't.
  • Reply 69 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spudgibb View Post


    I registered just to say that the only thing in common Android has with JavaME is that they run on mobile devices. Then all similarities end. And OSX is essentially a modified version of Windows



    I guess you don't even know what was the first graphic user interface or an operating system that uses a mouse to move around. Windows fans think that Windows was the first one to make it like that; do a little bit of research and you'll find out that windows actually copied mac...

    Apple change the way we used computers, therefore making them more appealing to casual customers that didn't want use just code.
  • Reply 70 of 132
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,486member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    Anyhow my point is that there is little point in a solely cloud based OS. Apple's iPad or a future version of Android will always have the upper hand because of their considerably better yet unburdening local capabilities.



    Well, ChromeOS is not "cloud" based, it is a system installed on and run from the device. It simply uses a browser as its main user interface and because of this, all development is done with web standards, HTML, CSS, Javascript.



    People seem to misunderstand what that means. It does NOT mean you need to be connected to the internet to use the computer. Applications can and probably will be stored locally when applicable -- coincidently, this will probably work just as on iOS devices. You can install web apps on iOS devices, by first going to the site and saving it to the home screen. This downloads a copy of the site which can be run offline (not connected to the internet). you can visit http://www.apple.com/webapps/ to see all the web-apps available for iOS devices.



    Also, "local" capabilities can be built into a "browser" by extending and adding custom features to the browser environment. System specific Javascript objects can be created giving access to the rest of the system (outside the browser). Apple does this with Dashboard, which is also based off HTML, CSS and Javascript but with a few Dashboard only features added. I would guess developing for ChromeOS will probably be very similar to developing for Dashboard.
  • Reply 71 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Microsoft should be scared. Chrome OS offers a lightweight OS for Atom-based and other slower machines that Windows OS (desktop) can't match while also being easy to use, which no version of common Linux-builds on a netbook can match. I can see Chrome OS quickly capturing a great deal of MS' Windows business in a very short time.



    You're right -- and that's pretty scary! Hopefully, as scary to users as to MS.



    As an aside...



    I stopped reading DED's blog several years ago because i† was too biased for me (an overt Apple fan).



    With the continuous onslaught of this same, over the to top reporting from AI, it is losing its value as a source of information and discussion.



    There are many reasoned an intelligent people here -- why does AI allow DED to repeatedly set an agenda that brings out the worst...



    Mel... ?
  • Reply 72 of 132
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    "Android is essentially a modified version of JavaME"



    False, the only thing Android has in common with JavaME is that both run on mobile devices.



    "Stallman orchestrated the Free Software movement, which promotes a specific type of freedom in software: the ability of users to modify their own software as they see fit, rather than being stuck with commercial, proprietary software they can't modify. Stallman's GNU software makes up the upper portion of most Linux distributions and portions are incorporated into Apple's Mac OS X."



    Je, je, Stallman is now a hero for Daniel.





    And regarding Stallman critizism, what makes different Chrome OS from having your account on GMail or MobileMe?



    If you have an account there, your contacts, mail and calendars are stored on the cloud exactly the same way you have stored if you use Chrome OS
  • Reply 73 of 132
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paulopallas View Post


    I guess you don't even know what was the first graphic user interface or an operating system that uses a mouse to move around. Windows fans think that Windows was the first one to make it like that; do a little bit of research and you'll find out that windows actually copied mac...

    Apple change the way we used computers, therefore making them more appealing to casual customers that didn't want use just code.



    I think you haven't understood the sarcams. OS X is a modified version of Windows as Android is esentially a version of JavaME.
  • Reply 74 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Microsoft should be scared. Chrome OS offers a lightweight OS for Atom-based and other slower machines that Windows OS (desktop) can't match while also being easy to use, which no version of common Linux-builds on a netbook can match



    Is that confirmed or an assumption? Has anyone actually released benchmarks of this vs the same hardware running W7 Starter?



    I just can't shake the feeling that if a website runs like a dog in W7 Starter it's going to run like a dog in ChromeOS as well.
  • Reply 75 of 132
    Yes, this is a lot of quoted material, but for a reason... more commentary below.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post


    It is CARELESS computing for sure. The BIG brother can get your info easier without a court order. Why will anyone want to keep their personal information on any server.



    With Chrome OS and other cloud-based computing, everything you do is out of your control. I will not attempt it, even if they pay me to use it. It is a disastrous proposition.



    You are forewarned!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I still don't trust cloud computing. Not only do they have your data, and only their word that they aren't peeking into it, and somehow benefiting from it in some way, but they can know exactly what you're doing on those pages, even including what formula in a spreadsheet you're using. That's something even Stallman hasn't mentioned as far as I know.



    ... I really don't trust Google. I think they are the most dangerous company on the planet today. They have shown no respect for privacy whatsoever.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Do you trust a company whose CEO said that they would know more about you than you did yourself, and that they would make decisions for you before you knew you wanted to make them? And how about him saying to people who weren't happy about having their homes on the Internet in Street View, that they could always move afterwards?



    ... How much of that data you will be trusting with them will they be using for their "dream"?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheff View Post


    ... I still prefer to keep most of my data locally, where I can quickly know that data is stolen and do something about it (remote wipe etc) rather then waiting for google to admit a breach. Chrome os will not be used for business purposes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    They're making you store your stuff on THEIR servers. They can track everything you do. Along with the other things I mentioned in other posts, I don't think Google is trustworthy. Along with their "mistakenly" stealing people's passwords and other personal info while doing Steetview and other mapping fieldwork, and not deleting that info when told to by some governments, shows the danger here. Why would their software capture that info in the first place? It all seems fishy. ...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post


    ... By the way, it's a horrible idea to use any of Googles products or services. Similar could probably be said about both apple and microsoft, but they're better at hiding it so far.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmz View Post


    Nice to see someone here has a brain. How anyone can conclude from the volumes of evidence available, that Google is in any way a safe entity to be involved, is beyond me.



    They are not good. Who they really work for I can't say, but it's not the user. It's the complete opposite.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    And for the record I side with Melgross and PMZ. I use Little Snitch, and google software phones home like no other and I certainly don't buy their 'do no evil' mantra.

    I used to respect google but nowadays they just irritate the crap out of me.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    You miss the point. If the government wants my information currently, it has to act in accordance with the 4th Amendment. Namely, seek a Court's approval to obtain such information. When you put your information in the Cloud, all the government has to do is ask Google for it. Currently, big corporations are happy to give the government back door access to people's private information. ATT, Verizon, Comcast have given government agencies backdoor access to their whole networks. Court oversight is not needed because once you give the documents to a third party you no longer own the documents and the third party can hand your information over simply by being requested to do so. It doesn't even have to be the government. Corporations can give your private information to your employer, neighbors, whomever they please. Current practice is to sell much of your information to other companies so they can try to sell you stuff.



    Information in the Cloud may be convenient, but it is not protected. ...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    ... Well Google is pretty scary. People have trusted too much of their information with a single entity... That's never a good idea. All the data they have of you has been at one time transmitted over a network. Data mining isn't necessarily a bad thing, at least until the CEO of that company runs around saying things like,



    "More and more searches are done on your behalf without you needing to type. I actually think most people don't want Google to answer their questions," he elaborates. "They want Google to tell them what they should be doing next. ... serendipity?can be calculated now. We can actually produce it electronically."



    Is this what you've entrusted Google with, to gather so much information on you that you want them to be able to tell you what to do? Most people who use Google, just want to search for stuff.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


    I don't think that its an acceptable position to simply accept the loss of privacy as being unavoidable.



    Hallelujah!!



    I am SO HAPPY to see many of you realizing the downside and dangers of one (or a few) companies in control of so much personal data! I've been 'preaching' the negative aspects of this model for a long time, and it's often felt like I was standing alone against an ocean of momentum. It felt like I was standing in the theater at the end of Apple's 1984 commercial, looking helplessly at the unwashed masses, without a hammer! ;-) No "I told you so" attitude from me at all, I'm just so elated to see a small change in momentum - even if only among the technically savvy of us.



    This battle has barely started. There is a place for online data, but right now it's like the wild west, with little in the way of safety or protection. The best thing we can do at this point is to try to educate as many people as possible, and minimize storage of personal data on public servers. It will probably frustrate many people to hear this, but that includes using gmail for your primary email account. That's not just your own personal data, but that of your friends as well. As Mel said above, Google is the most dangerous company on the planet today. They know way more about you than you think.



    Facebook may be evil, but it's easy to opt-out. Google is far more scary because it's very difficult to opt out of.
  • Reply 76 of 132
    I've been on the internet since 1995. I've run a lot of different browsers from a lot of different sources. The absolute worst software on my computers for the past 15 years has been web browsers. There's no way I would ever agree to run a "browser based OS".



    The cloud does not deserve our trust for two very good reasons:



    1. The holders of our personal information want to use it to make money. Their only interest in keeping our information safe is so it doesn't fall into the hands of their competition.



    2. Huge, supposedly safe databases with valuable credit card and medical data get cracked on a fairly regular basis. Do you really think that once all your eggs are in one basket that they'll be safer?
  • Reply 77 of 132
    blah64blah64 Posts: 990member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Full Disclosure: I use Google for my mail, have MobileMe backing up and syncing all sorts of data to my IDevices and Mac, use Dropbox to share files with friends, and even have AppleInsider account.



    First, I'm happy you have an AppleInsider account. 20,000 posts and counting - please stick around for another 20,000!



    So don't take this the wrong way, I just want to get you to start thinking about something. I've discussed this with personal friends, and the attitudes have ranged from "yeah, you're right, I think I'll change my usage", to "stupid #!*$#, shut up". More or less...



    You are making a conscious choice to give full and unfettered access to your personal information when you use gmail. At least I hope it's a conscious decision! Nothing is truly free, this is the implicit "price" you are paying for the convenience of using their email system.



    However, in doing so, you are also giving many of your friends' personal data to google as well. Are they all okay with this? Have you asked? Are they even thinking about it? Especially in light of the many comments above, I think this is something people are going to have to consider as our population becomes more educated.



    Personally, it pissed me off to no end when people send me email via their gmail accounts, asking about personal information -- especially when it's about your kids!. This is most definitely not information that google has any right to, and even when I practically knock some people over the head they refuse to consider my requests. Why is this?! Are people so addicted to this "convenience drug" that they can't quit? Almost every ISP provides email accounts along with the pipe, so it's not like people don't have other options.



    I'll leave it at that. I'm not picking on you in particular, I just want to get folks thinking.
  • Reply 78 of 132
    aizmovaizmov Posts: 989member
    Chrome OS is suitable only if you want to browse/consume online data, at that respect it is less practical than iOS or Android. It might sell, but only for people who do everything on the web or have another computer running a full fledged OS. But I know some people that all they use is the browser and iTunes, so ChromeOS has them covered except for iTunes, so unless Apple releases iTunes for ChromeOS it wouldn't get too far.
  • Reply 79 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post


    Instead of storing all my data in the "cloud", how about make it easier to access the data that's on my desktop computer at home? I still believe it is much better and more secure for people to maintain and store their data on their own systems....



    Absolutely agree with this. Considering that sufficiently fast upload and download "pipes" are necessary for many things to work in ChromeOS, I think most people would be better served, literally, with their own server setup.



    I'm not up to speed with the workings of SL-Server, so I don't know if this is already the case, but I've stated here in assorted threads that I think Apple should take a look at an easy to use, consumer friendly server setup. Especially since iOS is their cash-cow going forward. Whether a NAS, Drobo-type, Mac-Mini, whatever. A media and document server that works across the entire Mac OSX and iOS line-up of devices. WITH connectivity options for when you're on the go with one of the mobile devices.



    If SL-Server does all of the above and more already... forgive me for stating the obvious and what's already there, and being too dumb to find out.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post


    .....I just want to get folks thinking.



    The entire quoted reply by Blah64 is how I think too.



    Here in Germany, Google is a bad word, and the govt. and media are consistently beating them over the head and in the courts about their abusive practices as it applies to the Data Protection Laws in place. I can't imagine ChromeOS and it's cloud strategy is going to be looked upon kindly here.



    Even Facebook is catching some skeptical flak over their policies, and people using it for far too serious and privat subject matter, which "could" come back to haunt them.



    I'm not afraid personally, because when I do use those services, I'm as anonymous as possible. However, I definitely see the appeal of the services for the technologically average person, and actually would prefer many of the people I know to use such a service. Certainly over a full-blown train-wreck like *Windows!



    * I recently spent 2 days trying to rebuild a dead (computer - hard drive working) WinXP Pro installation to a new Win7 Home Premium system. Oh the pain! Printer, sound, ethernet driver hell! Old 16-bit business-app hell! Virtual PC-Windows XP Mode-180,- EURO upgrade Hell!



    Oh hell... I finally tossed the flaming pile of crap to a guru in the area. Should have done it from the start, and saved a few "tinged" gray hairs.



    *Windows is NOT the answer!
  • Reply 80 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post


    Why does AppleInsider continue to give this raging Apple fanboy the space to write his rants? We know what he's going to say: If it's not an Apple product, it sucks. It's laughable. Please, stop posting this nonsense from Mr. Dilger.



    Because this is a fking Apple fan board. They laugh at the google cloud yet they'd trust Jobs to handle their data in NC; like he smells better than any other corporation on the planet. So ironic.
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