I may just stop using Mac for good over this...now apple will control innovation on the mac just like they do on the iphone? no thanks, Steve and co make great hardware and OSes but I dont want them dictating what I can buy and not buy in top of their platform. I know 3rd party non app store apps are still possible, but if an app is not allowed into the store, it will be aleinated and not make enough money to continue, this app store idea on PCs and Macs is going to lead to fracturing, the suburbs of the app store and the indie devs who dont play ball will find themselves in the tech equivalent of the ghetto, all the shops around them closing up, and no new business coming in.
I am concerned because Apple has a nasty reputation of thought policing and banning apps that duplicate OS functionality. These factors are bad news for all.
I don't know why you would draw a line in the sand over this. It will not affect you at all. You'll still be able to install the apps you want. You seem to be making this an ideological stand when its not necessary. Its not about dictating what you can or can't put on your computer unless you demand the right to install malware on your computer. Even then Apple will let you do they just aren't going to be the supplier.
This is a smart move that MS is rumored to be moving to as well. This will help noobs from installing malware and improve the overall user experience. More sophisticated users will search out the apps that aren't included at the app store but they do that now already. And why will this hurt developers that don't sell apps through the app store? Is Apple outlawing Google searches on Macs with the introduction of the app store? Did I miss that?
Curated computing is the future. I wouldn't be surprised if Ubuntu did this as well.
I don't know why you would draw a line in the sand over this. It will not affect you at all. You'll still be able to install the apps you want. You seem to be making this an ideological stand when its not necessary. Its not about dictating what you can or can't put on your computer unless you demand the right to install malware on your computer. Even then Apple will let you do they just aren't going to be the supplier.
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
This reminds me of the same arguments we saw a decade ago when Apple got into the retail business and started opening their own stores. Independent resellers were feeling threatened and complaining that they couldn't compete with Apple.
A decade later what happend was that some died and most evolved with the changing environment. Today there are many flourishing VARs because Apple has grown the tent. In hindsight it would be hard to argue that the retail stores were a bad move.
A decade from now we will look back and wonder what the fuss was over.
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
The apps that don't go to the app store are likely to be apps for power users. Superduper and CCC aren't apps for regular folk. When I talk to new Mac users about them their eyes glass over (although they are impressed when I boot from an external drive). They'll likely won't be deterred by having to go to the developers web site and DL the app from them and install the old fashioned way. Time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
I would prefer Apple set the tone for the UI on the Mac platform. I don't want 3rd parties doing their own thing UI wise. I think that's called Windows.
So what about those users who have a non-intel Mac? I know the number of users is dropping, but there are still a lot of machines around which cannot upgrade to Snow Leopard or above.
They won't be able to have the Mac App Store, and now losing the downloads page.
they will still have versiontracker, macupdate etc
Apple has never been in the mood to support dead tech. And the PPC in their eyes is dead. Same in the eyes of many software developers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord
Do you see where I'm going with this? The real value of the Mac App Store isn't for power users who buy software from developers who wont make the margins to sacrafice 30% other revenue. It's for developers who can view the 30% as a marketing tool and get poor saps like me to notice their stuff.
Exactly. And Apple is blocking things like root access cause non power user Joe Q Public could do more damage than good. Esp if it is super easy to get the software
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
I may just stop using Mac for good over this...now apple will control innovation on the mac just like they do on the iphone? no thanks, Steve and co make great hardware and OSes but I dont want them dictating what I can buy and not buy in top of their platform.
Apple hate is strong with this one. Which is why he has ignored Jobs announcement, as repeated in every article including this one, that the MacAppStore is totally optional. There's no wall, no lock downs, no having to jailbreak your Mac.
Im my opinion this will be fine until the next version of OSX comes out and you can no longer load apps through any means other than the Mac App Store.....
Im my opinion this will be fine until the next version of OSX comes out and you can no longer load apps through any means other than the Mac App Store.....
Just my prediction...
I think it will get progressively harder to install apps that aren't from the MAS in subsequent versions of OX 10.x.
But i still think there will be a way for power users to install apps on Macs that aren't available through the MAS. While Apple will never allow Handbrake in the MAS, they definitely aren't opposed to users digitizing their content to view on Macs and iDevices.
Im my opinion this will be fine until the next version of OSX comes out and you can no longer load apps through any means other than the Mac App Store.....
Just my prediction...
Won't happen. Pretty simple. No one would develop for OS X anymore. The platform dies.
It's not the end of the world, but there should be a directory of available apps.
Then instead of a download link, there should be a link to the AppStore or to the developer's site.
Apple's decision would make sense if the AppStore could also contain "listings only" where you find an app, but then are redirected to the developer's site for more info.
Particularly for more esoteric vertical apps the directory was very useful, and these are the ones the least suited for the AppStore.
What this does make it even more difficult for all these developers who write apps that are traditionally served by Windows machines. e.g. a Point-of-Sale restaurant management software just isn't going to be in the AppStore, because it needs to be configured, has likely a licensing scheme that doesn't jive well with the AppStore priciing (e.g. tired by number of POS Terminals in use), etc.
Now, try to find stuff like that: when you Google, you'll get a ton of non-Mac software, even with the proper search terms.
There's plenty of transition: they told developers weeks ago to get ready to start giving Steve 30% of their income. Who needs more time than that to understand a very simple message?
You are assuming there are zero costs in making that income.
I suggest you take a basic finance course and go learn the difference between gross and net and think about how it applies here.
The Mac App Store is primarily designed to solve the problems that consumers have.
- finding software
- installing software
- updating software
- deleting software
- viruses, spyware
These issues are not as important in vertically integrated markets or for professional software.
In fact, the simple solution would be to create an app for the Mac app store that is a directory of software not available in the Mac app store. MacUpdate or cnet could fill the niche nicely.
Not necessarily. Not all will. Dave Nanian was a recent guest on MacBreak Weekly and said that 30% was too big a hit to take on his profit. He also said that some of the guidelines would prevent at least one of his apps from being listed by Apple - SuperDuper in particular requires root access in order to back up the entire filesystem, and root access is prevented under the App Store guidelines.
I'm sure plenty of developers will follow, particularly the ones who are not already well established, just not all of them.
Apple sells 'appliances' now. don't you dare think about actually fiddling with the innards.
the spirit of Woz and the whole idea behind things like the Home brew club and the very thing that made apple a possibility is dead to that company and they want it dead for everyone else too. keep people stupid and buying.
Apple sells 'appliances' now. don't you dare think about actually fiddling with the innards.
the spirit of Woz and the whole idea behind things like the Home brew club and the very thing that made apple a possibility is dead to that company and they want it dead for everyone else too. keep people stupid and buying.
You are assuming there are zero costs in making that income.
I suggest you take a basic finance course and go learn the difference between gross and net and think about how it applies here.
No need to be insulting. I said the message was simple, not pleasant.
How many developers found themselves wondering, "Wow, my web hosting only costs me $10 a month, but I'm still making way too much money. I just can't get rid of it fast enough. I wonder how I can increase my overhead to reduce my income by 30%..."
No need to be insulting. I said the message was simple, not pleasant.
How many developers found themselves wondering, "Wow, my web hosting only costs me $10 a month, but I'm still making way too much money. I just can't get rid of it fast enough. I wonder how I can increase my overhead to reduce my income by 30%..."
So Apple's free software promotion site is closing down, nothing is stopping you from finding another site to promote your software and link your $10 a month hosted application to, there are plenty out there, they just won't be as easily accessible via the menu bar to 100% of mac users, including all the new mac buyers.
Maybe you will have to do a cost-benefit analysis, it'd be certainly more productive than whining on the web.
Comments
I may just stop using Mac for good over this...now apple will control innovation on the mac just like they do on the iphone? no thanks, Steve and co make great hardware and OSes but I dont want them dictating what I can buy and not buy in top of their platform. I know 3rd party non app store apps are still possible, but if an app is not allowed into the store, it will be aleinated and not make enough money to continue, this app store idea on PCs and Macs is going to lead to fracturing, the suburbs of the app store and the indie devs who dont play ball will find themselves in the tech equivalent of the ghetto, all the shops around them closing up, and no new business coming in.
I am concerned because Apple has a nasty reputation of thought policing and banning apps that duplicate OS functionality. These factors are bad news for all.
I don't know why you would draw a line in the sand over this. It will not affect you at all. You'll still be able to install the apps you want. You seem to be making this an ideological stand when its not necessary. Its not about dictating what you can or can't put on your computer unless you demand the right to install malware on your computer. Even then Apple will let you do they just aren't going to be the supplier.
This is a smart move that MS is rumored to be moving to as well. This will help noobs from installing malware and improve the overall user experience. More sophisticated users will search out the apps that aren't included at the app store but they do that now already. And why will this hurt developers that don't sell apps through the app store? Is Apple outlawing Google searches on Macs with the introduction of the app store? Did I miss that?
Curated computing is the future. I wouldn't be surprised if Ubuntu did this as well.
Apple is basically saying "Give us a 30% cut of your Mac sales or go take a hike."
You do realize that Apple is providing something for that 30% cut.
File hosting, bandwidth, credit card processing, credibility, promotion, customers.
It is not easy being a small independent developer.
Apple is lowering the barrier to entry and as a result we will see a lot more apps available for the Mac.
I don't know why you would draw a line in the sand over this. It will not affect you at all. You'll still be able to install the apps you want. You seem to be making this an ideological stand when its not necessary. Its not about dictating what you can or can't put on your computer unless you demand the right to install malware on your computer. Even then Apple will let you do they just aren't going to be the supplier.
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
This reminds me of the same arguments we saw a decade ago when Apple got into the retail business and started opening their own stores. Independent resellers were feeling threatened and complaining that they couldn't compete with Apple.
A decade later what happend was that some died and most evolved with the changing environment. Today there are many flourishing VARs because Apple has grown the tent. In hindsight it would be hard to argue that the retail stores were a bad move.
A decade from now we will look back and wonder what the fuss was over.
What I am worried about is the monopolization of the sales channel. if 90 % of apps are sold thru the app store and 2 or 3 apps that I rely on arent, sure I can still get it and will gladly pay indie devs for it, but how many people would just settle for something sortof like it in the app store for ease? this could run non app store devs out of business.
The apps that don't go to the app store are likely to be apps for power users. Superduper and CCC aren't apps for regular folk. When I talk to new Mac users about them their eyes glass over (although they are impressed when I boot from an external drive). They'll likely won't be deterred by having to go to the developers web site and DL the app from them and install the old fashioned way. Time will tell.
I am concerned that Apples over all control on the apps will limit the innovation that we see in the store, if everything has to follow a set standard of UI guidelines for example, where will the next UI concept come from?
I would prefer Apple set the tone for the UI on the Mac platform. I don't want 3rd parties doing their own thing UI wise. I think that's called Windows.
So what about those users who have a non-intel Mac? I know the number of users is dropping, but there are still a lot of machines around which cannot upgrade to Snow Leopard or above.
They won't be able to have the Mac App Store, and now losing the downloads page.
they will still have versiontracker, macupdate etc
Apple has never been in the mood to support dead tech. And the PPC in their eyes is dead. Same in the eyes of many software developers.
Do you see where I'm going with this? The real value of the Mac App Store isn't for power users who buy software from developers who wont make the margins to sacrafice 30% other revenue. It's for developers who can view the 30% as a marketing tool and get poor saps like me to notice their stuff.
Exactly. And Apple is blocking things like root access cause non power user Joe Q Public could do more damage than good. Esp if it is super easy to get the software
I may just stop using Mac for good over this...now apple will control innovation on the mac just like they do on the iphone? no thanks, Steve and co make great hardware and OSes but I dont want them dictating what I can buy and not buy in top of their platform.
Apple hate is strong with this one. Which is why he has ignored Jobs announcement, as repeated in every article including this one, that the MacAppStore is totally optional. There's no wall, no lock downs, no having to jailbreak your Mac.
Just my prediction...
Im my opinion this will be fine until the next version of OSX comes out and you can no longer load apps through any means other than the Mac App Store.....
Just my prediction...
I think it will get progressively harder to install apps that aren't from the MAS in subsequent versions of OX 10.x.
But i still think there will be a way for power users to install apps on Macs that aren't available through the MAS. While Apple will never allow Handbrake in the MAS, they definitely aren't opposed to users digitizing their content to view on Macs and iDevices.
Im my opinion this will be fine until the next version of OSX comes out and you can no longer load apps through any means other than the Mac App Store.....
Just my prediction...
Won't happen. Pretty simple. No one would develop for OS X anymore. The platform dies.
Then instead of a download link, there should be a link to the AppStore or to the developer's site.
Apple's decision would make sense if the AppStore could also contain "listings only" where you find an app, but then are redirected to the developer's site for more info.
Particularly for more esoteric vertical apps the directory was very useful, and these are the ones the least suited for the AppStore.
What this does make it even more difficult for all these developers who write apps that are traditionally served by Windows machines. e.g. a Point-of-Sale restaurant management software just isn't going to be in the AppStore, because it needs to be configured, has likely a licensing scheme that doesn't jive well with the AppStore priciing (e.g. tired by number of POS Terminals in use), etc.
Now, try to find stuff like that: when you Google, you'll get a ton of non-Mac software, even with the proper search terms.
There's plenty of transition: they told developers weeks ago to get ready to start giving Steve 30% of their income. Who needs more time than that to understand a very simple message?
You are assuming there are zero costs in making that income.
I suggest you take a basic finance course and go learn the difference between gross and net and think about how it applies here.
The Mac App Store is primarily designed to solve the problems that consumers have.
- finding software
- installing software
- updating software
- deleting software
- viruses, spyware
These issues are not as important in vertically integrated markets or for professional software.
In fact, the simple solution would be to create an app for the Mac app store that is a directory of software not available in the Mac app store. MacUpdate or cnet could fill the niche nicely.
Not necessarily. Not all will. Dave Nanian was a recent guest on MacBreak Weekly and said that 30% was too big a hit to take on his profit. He also said that some of the guidelines would prevent at least one of his apps from being listed by Apple - SuperDuper in particular requires root access in order to back up the entire filesystem, and root access is prevented under the App Store guidelines.
I'm sure plenty of developers will follow, particularly the ones who are not already well established, just not all of them.
Apple sells 'appliances' now. don't you dare think about actually fiddling with the innards.
the spirit of Woz and the whole idea behind things like the Home brew club and the very thing that made apple a possibility is dead to that company and they want it dead for everyone else too. keep people stupid and buying.
disgusting company now.
Apple is basically saying "Give us a 30% cut of your Mac sales or go take a hike."
No, they are saying "we have decided not to advertise your product for free on OUR web site."
Apple sells 'appliances' now. don't you dare think about actually fiddling with the innards.
the spirit of Woz and the whole idea behind things like the Home brew club and the very thing that made apple a possibility is dead to that company and they want it dead for everyone else too. keep people stupid and buying.
disgusting company now.
Is that why they charge so much for Xcode?
Is that why they charge so much for Xcode?
no i am sure they will still keep the bargains out there. its a steal when you buy a overpriced piece of hardware ain't it? wake up.
Then the Internet came along and you could gopher merit and ftp files at a snails pace.
Funny thing is, the best time to download was when the X-Files was on in America.
You are assuming there are zero costs in making that income.
I suggest you take a basic finance course and go learn the difference between gross and net and think about how it applies here.
No need to be insulting. I said the message was simple, not pleasant.
How many developers found themselves wondering, "Wow, my web hosting only costs me $10 a month, but I'm still making way too much money. I just can't get rid of it fast enough. I wonder how I can increase my overhead to reduce my income by 30%..."
No need to be insulting. I said the message was simple, not pleasant.
How many developers found themselves wondering, "Wow, my web hosting only costs me $10 a month, but I'm still making way too much money. I just can't get rid of it fast enough. I wonder how I can increase my overhead to reduce my income by 30%..."
So Apple's free software promotion site is closing down, nothing is stopping you from finding another site to promote your software and link your $10 a month hosted application to, there are plenty out there, they just won't be as easily accessible via the menu bar to 100% of mac users, including all the new mac buyers.
Maybe you will have to do a cost-benefit analysis, it'd be certainly more productive than whining on the web.
...certainly more productive than whining on the web.
hill60
Posts: 1,616