Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
I disagree with you because it is QNX themselves that is doing the implementation, not some 3rd party QNX consultant.
Plenty of handheld QNX devices out there --- from the ones I linked previously like the compaq ipaq to full-sized rugged tablets used on the factory floors. Compaq have been gone for like a decade. This rugged tablet article is 7 years old.
Just because most people never heard of QNX being embedded inside these things, doesn't mean that they aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNSF
I don't think thats quite true. I think RIM has been a bit disingenuous when talking about who has the Playbook in their hands. I think they've got dev models that they're showing around, but I don't think there are many large customers with actual models in their own possession. I know of some very significant launch partners who aren't expecting models for development until a month from now.
All you need is one guy that leaks the news. The website mobilityinsider.com was shut down by RIM because they showed a short video of the RIM Playbook.
Well.. I wonder why it has problems depleting the battery so fast...
It's a dual-core CPU?
It runs Flash?
It's a small footprint, meaning smaller battery?
Darn... the reasons are just alluding me! </sarcasm>
These are the same mistakes that everyone else continue to make yet never learn. Can't anyone else besides Apple be more pro-active when developing a long-lasting product? Is it really that difficult to write on a piece of paper, "must run fast, light, and long-lasting" and go from there?
Not to mention...
1. They let the background processes run wild with their Adobe AIR based UI.
2. QNX is probably not fully optimized for small battery operated devices.
3. A gigabyte of RAM using up power.
The Blackberry OS 6 developers were probably not involved in the tablet OS development.
At the Rogers event, it was clearly stated by QNX that they were only running a single core for the browser for the moment (because it was ported by the Torch browser team, not by QNX themselves).
Shaw Wu has no idea what he was talking about --- because he is blaming it on QNX. Plenty of embedded low-powered battery operated stuff are done with QNX.
If the RIM Playbook does indeed have a battery life issue --- then it is (1) adobe flash and (2) fast dual core cpu --- nothing to do with QNX itself.
Considering how quickly everything was slapped together, anything in the praybook could be a culprit.
QNX used to have alternating CEO's between the two founders. One guy is the CEO and the other guy is the president --- and they flipped the positions every year.
Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
This certainly validates Apple's current approach to multitasking - which as been criticized for not being "true" multitasking, but works well within the constraints of a mobile device.
BTW, I think this rumour is a prime example of underinformed analysts having way too much power. Analysts in general don't impress me because they don't seem to understand the technology and the markets. They tend to focus more on numbers and calculations, which don't always tell the whole story.
In this case, we have a single analyst spouting an unverified claim and suddenly its all over every tech publication on the net. RIM will probably be forced to respond to this in order to avoid a run on the bank, so to speak. Look at Shaw Wu's position on RIM... his target price is basically the current market price and his shipment estimates for probably the lowest of all analysts. Clearly, Shaw is pessimistic on RIM and yet somehow he is in a position to exert significant control over market expectations with just a few key strokes and no evidence.
Just my two cents.
Rim can prove him wrong by releasing the playbook q1 2011 - if it's delayed, we know why..
This certainly validates Apple's current approach to multitasking - which as been criticized for not being "true" multitasking, but works well within the constraints of a mobile device.
But even RIM talked about how unlikely it is to play a HD video on the background while running 6-7 apps. You can do it with the Playbook, but it doesn't mean you are actually going to do it in real life.
Rim can prove him wrong by releasing the playbook q1 2011 - if it's delayed, we know why..
There are a million items that haven't been shown --- like it was never demonstrated in portrait mode, it never showed universal search, it never showed how you pair it with the blackberry, how it still doesn't have a finished browser.
If it's delayed, it's delayed for a million other reasons that we already know for sure.
Much like many 'family' run limited companies, the man listed at the top may consider himself The CEO. However, it is the wife that really has the final say.
By the way, there are many companies that have three co-CEOs.
Some of the well-known companies that use/have used these power-sharing structures [co-CEOs] include Bed Bath & Beyond, Martha Stewart, Charles Schwab, Golden West Financial, and Neiman Marcus Group. as well as, Citigroup, Daimle.rChrysler, and Bank of America
And considering the financial crisis we are experiencing today, perhaps there should be more co-CEOs. Better yet, make it a capital crime subject to capital punishment for one of them if found guilty of scamming its investors.
The difference is that apple spent years to pare back and refine the software to ensure the user experience worked on the iPhone/iPad.
Clearly you don't understand embedded OS'es or the markets they serve.
Quote:
Rim's work on their frankentablet amounted to taking qnx, adobe air, cortex a9, and whatever UI they've cobbled together and throw it all against a wall and see what sticks.
You have no basis for this comment and clearly don't understand the markets Q?NX plays in.
Quote:
If they want to make a competitive product, Rim needs to take their time to produce a solid device that competes with the iPad.
Isn't that pretty much what setting the pushing back of the release date is? Why would you slag RIM so and then state that they need to do the very thing you are giving them a hard time about.
Quote:
One iPad killer's down for the count, let's see how long it takes for HP's iPad killer to bite the dust.
Just how do you justify this point of view. Honestly Playbook looks like the only strong competitor coming.
Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
So you believe that iOS devices don't multitask? Sad. The only thing iOS does is place restrictions on the number of user apps running at any one time. This may be required at this point in the state of the art in micro electronics but is a "feature" that will need to go away even on iOS.
Quote:
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Maybe it is the users for running to many apps. Besides all RIM needs to do is benchmark the Playbook running single apps just like the iOS devices do. The reality is lots of things can lead to excessive power usage but blaming the OS isn't really that wise. Flash can be a huge factor here.
Quote:
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
I doubt very much that Wu has any solid info at all as to what is going on with Playbook. All new products have challenges, but unless we have details as to what specifically is causing the delay we really don't know. For all we know the GPU could be burning up a good part of the power if indeed the delay has anything at all to do with power, the possibilities are endless.
Clearly you don't understand embedded OS'es or the markets they serve.
You have no basis for this comment and clearly don't understand the markets Q?NX plays in.
Isn't that pretty much what setting the pushing back of the release date is? Why would you slag RIM so and then state that they need to do the very thing you are giving them a hard time about.
Just how do you justify this point of view. Honestly Playbook looks like the only strong competitor coming.
Of course I have a basis for my opinion. I know full well what an embedded OS is capable of, however an embedded OS isn't a magic bullet.
RIM has their teams rushing to get the praybook out - in their mad rush to complete everything, they're missing things. Obviously just because an OS can multitask, doesn't mean it should allow unlimited apps to be fired off and drain the battery in record time.
Battery life is of utmost importance - the fact the iPad can run from 10 - 12 hours doing solid tasks - with excellent standby time - is the killer feature.
RIM is stupid:
- They're talking dual core processors, yet they're only taking advantage of one processor.
- They've added in a host of hardware and software features without taking into consideration power consumption issues, such as
* 1 gig of ram
* hdmi and USB
* adobe air
- Adobe Air is the development tool of choice!?! They've proven Jobs point.
I'm giving RIM a hard time because they were stupid to pre announce it by several months, and make all of these stupid proclamations. Now they have egg on their face.
This needs at least another year of development - in order to refine it and make it a worthy iPad competitor.
Maybe it is the users for running to many apps. Besides all RIM needs to do is benchmark the Playbook running single apps just like the iOS devices do. The reality is lots of things can lead to excessive power usage but blaming the OS isn't really that wise. Flash can be a huge
Lol - blame the users for running too many apps!
Of course Flash can be a huge power draw - maybe Those co-ceo's should have done some research nstead of patting each other on the back.
Some industry watchers and Wall Street analysts say that Research In Motion's Playbook tablet will arrive too late to make a dent in the market dominated by the iPad and Android devices
...
The bottom line: Despite an initial surge in optimism, many analysts now doubt that RIM's tablet will bolster the company's competitive standing.
Comments
Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
I disagree with you because it is QNX themselves that is doing the implementation, not some 3rd party QNX consultant.
Plenty of handheld QNX devices out there --- from the ones I linked previously like the compaq ipaq to full-sized rugged tablets used on the factory floors. Compaq have been gone for like a decade. This rugged tablet article is 7 years old.
http://www.ruggedpcreview.com/3_slates_taxonomy.html
Hell, if you go to the QNX website, they are hiring people to embed QNX for handheld point and shoot cameras.
http://www.qnx.com/company/careers/opportunities/
Just because most people never heard of QNX being embedded inside these things, doesn't mean that they aren't.
I don't think thats quite true. I think RIM has been a bit disingenuous when talking about who has the Playbook in their hands. I think they've got dev models that they're showing around, but I don't think there are many large customers with actual models in their own possession. I know of some very significant launch partners who aren't expecting models for development until a month from now.
All you need is one guy that leaks the news. The website mobilityinsider.com was shut down by RIM because they showed a short video of the RIM Playbook.
Well.. I wonder why it has problems depleting the battery so fast...
It's a dual-core CPU?
It runs Flash?
It's a small footprint, meaning smaller battery?
Darn... the reasons are just alluding me! </sarcasm>
These are the same mistakes that everyone else continue to make yet never learn. Can't anyone else besides Apple be more pro-active when developing a long-lasting product? Is it really that difficult to write on a piece of paper, "must run fast, light, and long-lasting" and go from there?
Not to mention...
1. They let the background processes run wild with their Adobe AIR based UI.
2. QNX is probably not fully optimized for small battery operated devices.
3. A gigabyte of RAM using up power.
The Blackberry OS 6 developers were probably not involved in the tablet OS development.
Time will tell.
At the Rogers event, it was clearly stated by QNX that they were only running a single core for the browser for the moment (because it was ported by the Torch browser team, not by QNX themselves).
Shaw Wu has no idea what he was talking about --- because he is blaming it on QNX. Plenty of embedded low-powered battery operated stuff are done with QNX.
If the RIM Playbook does indeed have a battery life issue --- then it is (1) adobe flash and (2) fast dual core cpu --- nothing to do with QNX itself.
Considering how quickly everything was slapped together, anything in the praybook could be a culprit.
QNX used to have alternating CEO's between the two founders. One guy is the CEO and the other guy is the president --- and they flipped the positions every year.
Flipped positions!?!?!
Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
This certainly validates Apple's current approach to multitasking - which as been criticized for not being "true" multitasking, but works well within the constraints of a mobile device.
BTW, I think this rumour is a prime example of underinformed analysts having way too much power. Analysts in general don't impress me because they don't seem to understand the technology and the markets. They tend to focus more on numbers and calculations, which don't always tell the whole story.
In this case, we have a single analyst spouting an unverified claim and suddenly its all over every tech publication on the net. RIM will probably be forced to respond to this in order to avoid a run on the bank, so to speak. Look at Shaw Wu's position on RIM... his target price is basically the current market price and his shipment estimates for probably the lowest of all analysts. Clearly, Shaw is pessimistic on RIM and yet somehow he is in a position to exert significant control over market expectations with just a few key strokes and no evidence.
Just my two cents.
Rim can prove him wrong by releasing the playbook q1 2011 - if it's delayed, we know why..
This certainly validates Apple's current approach to multitasking - which as been criticized for not being "true" multitasking, but works well within the constraints of a mobile device.
But even RIM talked about how unlikely it is to play a HD video on the background while running 6-7 apps. You can do it with the Playbook, but it doesn't mean you are actually going to do it in real life.
Rim can prove him wrong by releasing the playbook q1 2011 - if it's delayed, we know why..
There are a million items that haven't been shown --- like it was never demonstrated in portrait mode, it never showed universal search, it never showed how you pair it with the blackberry, how it still doesn't have a finished browser.
If it's delayed, it's delayed for a million other reasons that we already know for sure.
Uninstall Adobe Air. Who needs a GUI anyway? Real users use a shell.
Yes.. but which shell?
First of all, they are not CEOs but co-CEOs.
Much like many 'family' run limited companies, the man listed at the top may consider himself The CEO. However, it is the wife that really has the final say.
By the way, there are many companies that have three co-CEOs.
Some of the well-known companies that use/have used these power-sharing structures [co-CEOs] include Bed Bath & Beyond, Martha Stewart, Charles Schwab, Golden West Financial, and Neiman Marcus Group. as well as, Citigroup, Daimle.rChrysler, and Bank of America
And considering the financial crisis we are experiencing today, perhaps there should be more co-CEOs. Better yet, make it a capital crime subject to capital punishment for one of them if found guilty of scamming its investors.
I agree
http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/ri...on-scam/101480
I agree
http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/ri...on-scam/101480
Apple also settled with the SEC on backdating --- might as well asked Steve Jobs to step down.
Apple also settled with the SEC on backdating --- might as well asked Steve Jobs to step down.
But they didn't... because he was not guilty... just accused!
Even you can understand the difference!
Uninstall Adobe Flash?
Exactly. RIM needs to work very hard to get as many native apps as possible on board.
The difference is that apple spent years to pare back and refine the software to ensure the user experience worked on the iPhone/iPad.
Clearly you don't understand embedded OS'es or the markets they serve.
Rim's work on their frankentablet amounted to taking qnx, adobe air, cortex a9, and whatever UI they've cobbled together and throw it all against a wall and see what sticks.
You have no basis for this comment and clearly don't understand the markets Q?NX plays in.
If they want to make a competitive product, Rim needs to take their time to produce a solid device that competes with the iPad.
Isn't that pretty much what setting the pushing back of the release date is? Why would you slag RIM so and then state that they need to do the very thing you are giving them a hard time about.
One iPad killer's down for the count, let's see how long it takes for HP's iPad killer to bite the dust.
Just how do you justify this point of view. Honestly Playbook looks like the only strong competitor coming.
Its unfair to blame it on QNX as a whole, but I believe the implementation of QNX on the Playbook could definitely contribute to poor battery life. There are many choices that can be made when implementing the OS that will impact battery life and I have no doubt that the "true" multitasking that RIM is attempting is a big one.
So you believe that iOS devices don't multitask? Sad. The only thing iOS does is place restrictions on the number of user apps running at any one time. This may be required at this point in the state of the art in micro electronics but is a "feature" that will need to go away even on iOS.
I suppose its a bit of chicken/egg. If RIM decides to have "true" multitasking and QNX burns lots of power as a result then who's fault is it? RIM's for deciding to implement "true" multitasking? Or QNX' for using lots of power when multitasking?
Maybe it is the users for running to many apps. Besides all RIM needs to do is benchmark the Playbook running single apps just like the iOS devices do. The reality is lots of things can lead to excessive power usage but blaming the OS isn't really that wise. Flash can be a huge factor here.
Either way I believe there is some validity to Shaw Wu's claim that making QNX perform on a tablet is a much different implementation that QNX has done in the past and presents challenges that maybe they haven't overcome yet.
I doubt very much that Wu has any solid info at all as to what is going on with Playbook. All new products have challenges, but unless we have details as to what specifically is causing the delay we really don't know. For all we know the GPU could be burning up a good part of the power if indeed the delay has anything at all to do with power, the possibilities are endless.
Clearly you don't understand embedded OS'es or the markets they serve.
You have no basis for this comment and clearly don't understand the markets Q?NX plays in.
Isn't that pretty much what setting the pushing back of the release date is? Why would you slag RIM so and then state that they need to do the very thing you are giving them a hard time about.
Just how do you justify this point of view. Honestly Playbook looks like the only strong competitor coming.
Of course I have a basis for my opinion. I know full well what an embedded OS is capable of, however an embedded OS isn't a magic bullet.
RIM has their teams rushing to get the praybook out - in their mad rush to complete everything, they're missing things. Obviously just because an OS can multitask, doesn't mean it should allow unlimited apps to be fired off and drain the battery in record time.
Battery life is of utmost importance - the fact the iPad can run from 10 - 12 hours doing solid tasks - with excellent standby time - is the killer feature.
RIM is stupid:
- They're talking dual core processors, yet they're only taking advantage of one processor.
- They've added in a host of hardware and software features without taking into consideration power consumption issues, such as
* 1 gig of ram
* hdmi and USB
* adobe air
- Adobe Air is the development tool of choice!?! They've proven Jobs point.
I'm giving RIM a hard time because they were stupid to pre announce it by several months, and make all of these stupid proclamations. Now they have egg on their face.
This needs at least another year of development - in order to refine it and make it a worthy iPad competitor.
Maybe it is the users for running to many apps. Besides all RIM needs to do is benchmark the Playbook running single apps just like the iOS devices do. The reality is lots of things can lead to excessive power usage but blaming the OS isn't really that wise. Flash can be a huge
Lol - blame the users for running too many apps!
Of course Flash can be a huge power draw - maybe Those co-ceo's should have done some research nstead of patting each other on the back.
Considering how quickly everything was slapped together, anything in the praybook could be a culprit.
Which is more likely the culprit?
A) An embedded OS used in a multitude of tiny/constrained environments (including power).
Given that Wu is stating this I'm going to assume he's simply clueless again. QNX sure as hell doesn't require a dual core A9 to run properly...
Where does QNX run with Air as a UI? In a car.
RIM's PlayBook Stock Rally Is Fizzling
Some industry watchers and Wall Street analysts say that Research In Motion's Playbook tablet will arrive too late to make a dent in the market dominated by the iPad and Android devices
...
The bottom line: Despite an initial surge in optimism, many analysts now doubt that RIM's tablet will bolster the company's competitive standing.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...mpaign_id=yhoo
We here at AI discuss mainly specs. features, usability from a technical perspective.
Financial analysts use different perspectives -- timing, competition, ROI, etc.