Verizon iPhone predicted to earn Apple 'respect' on Wall Street

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by babymachine View Post


    In my experience, Wall Street not respecting Apple was due to the fact that once Steve goes Apple stock will undoubtedly drop.



    ... by 30% the first day and by more than 50% when the carnage is done...
  • Reply 42 of 79
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,422member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by babymachine View Post


    In my experience, Wall Street not respecting Apple was due to the fact that once Steve goes Apple stock will undoubtedly drop.



    well thats not only apple, when the magellan fund lost its guru it dropped but came back roaring, SJ dna is all over that company i would think. someone should make a book of SJ quotes to quide the "sales guy" that often comes to the rescue of a company, aka balmy MS. when a company losses focus is when they suffer, well apple did that and they have history to show them humility, many companies get lost in their "titanic" and narcissistic ways, oh yea we can't sink, we are so wonderful, and watch those mergers that don't make sense, sprint, aol, etc.
  • Reply 43 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    It's all about earnings multiples, which it's correctly stated here are very low for a company experiencing such rapid earnings growth.



    There are good reasons for that - analysts have trouble seeing the current growth continue. It's much easier for a small company to have large growth for a number of years, than for a company as large as Apple. 5 years of 70% growth, and they'd be 15 times larger than today - which won't happen for Apple. Also, for small growth companies almost all of the growth can be net profit. For Apple, benefits of scale won't increase much if any further. Also, few companies are seen as much one-person risk that Apple has.
  • Reply 44 of 79
    801801 Posts: 271member
    I have a completely innocent question:



    Is wall street a leading or lagging indicator of the economy?



    Is Wall street rigged against the small "investor/player"?



    I realize it is not rational. So why "invest" in a system that is not rational. That, to me, is irrational.



    Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
  • Reply 45 of 79
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Yeah... but you're full of shit too... you should have caught the low p/e ratio of 14... it's actually 21.5 which is on par with other growth companies.



    [on edit - ...and I enjoy the money I make going counter to the "analysts"]



    Wrong again. If you paid even a little attention you would have noticed that I called out above that the cited PE is forward, and even explained what that means, for those who don't know. For those who can't be bothered, nothing is going to help.
  • Reply 46 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Wrong again. If you paid even a little attention you would have noticed that I called out above that the cited PE is forward, and even explained what that means, for those who don't know. For those who can't be bothered, nothing is going to help.



    You're right... you did say that and you are correct... 14.13 forward p/e.



    My apologies.
  • Reply 47 of 79
    neilwneilw Posts: 77member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xyzzy01 View Post


    There are good reasons for that - analysts have trouble seeing the current growth continue. It's much easier for a small continue to have large growth for a number of years, than for a company as large as Apple. 5 years of that grown, and they'd be 15 times larger than today - which won't happen. Also, for small growth companies almost all of the growth can be net profit. For Apple, benefits of scale won't increase much if any further.



    In other words, Wall Street simply doesn't know how to value such a large company growing so quickly. There is an ingrained "law of large numbers" attitude that suggests that once you get that large, you can't *possibly* keep growing that quickly. Of course, the naysayers have been saying that for quite a while, and the train keeps a'rollin. They also believe that Apple just has to screw up at some point (for how many consecutive years can a company keep firing on all cylinders?). And that Jobs will die and leave the company in a shambles. And the whole world will wake up one day and decide that Apple products aren't cool anymore.



    So, I wouldn't say at all that Wall Street doesn't "respect" Apple, but it is true as others have mentioned that Apple is not priced according to its growth. And I agree with Dr. Millmoss that it seems highly dubious a Verizon iPhone is going to correct this situation due to a higher level of "respectability". More likely, the simple fact of greater iPhone sales, and improved market share and sales numbers vs. Android will do the trick, though even those will not offset the Apple risk factors mentioned above.



    Personally, I believe it's quite clear that Apple still has enormous room to grow. You can debate whether you believe they'll successfully execute for enough years into the future to achieve the growth. I think they will, at least for a while longer.
  • Reply 48 of 79
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xyzzy01 View Post


    There are good reasons for that - analysts have trouble seeing the current growth continue. It's much easier for a small continue to have large growth for a number of years, than for a company as large as Apple. 5 years of that grown, and they'd be 15 times larger than today - which won't happen. Also, for small growth companies almost all of the growth can be net profit. For Apple, benefits of scale won't increase much if any further.



    Maybe. But what I've seen is a fairly steady PE compression over the last few years, and multiples were never what you be tempted to call out of sight for a company growing earnings as rapidly as Apple. I think the markets have never been totally convinced by Apple's earnings story, which is why I am skeptical of this analyst's suggestion that the Verizon iPhone is going to change attitudes which are really deeply entrenched. If you're an AAPL investor, you just have to accept that the markets aren't going to value the company like others with similar or even lower rates.
  • Reply 49 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by neilw View Post


    In other words, Wall Street simply doesn't know how to value such a large company growing so quickly. There is an ingrained "law of large numbers" attitude that suggests that once you get that large, you can't *possibly* keep growing that quickly. Of course, the naysayers have been saying that for quite a while, and the train keeps a'rollin. They also believe that Apple just has to screw up at some point (for how many consecutive years can a company keep firing on all cylinders?). And that Jobs will die and leave the company in a shambles. And the whole world will wake up one day and decide that Apple products aren't cool anymore.



    Actually... WS has never taken to Apple... ever. WS has never taken Apple seriously. Especially in the early 80s. I mean, what investment house worth its salt would give credence to a company named Apple... your company had to have a serious name or forget about it.



    Apple has fallen before... so, as you say I think they're waiting for the other shoe to drop... but the train keeps rolling.



    The questions now are... Is that all Steve's got? Is he done? Will he step aside to hold only an advisory role? What will happen to Apple if Steve steps down?



    [... and, meanwhile, I enjoy the money Apple has made me]
  • Reply 50 of 79
    justflybobjustflybob Posts: 1,337member
    Wouldn't that be something like a priest getting "respect" from the alter boy he just violated?
  • Reply 51 of 79
    neilwneilw Posts: 77member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    Actually... WS has never taken to Apple... ever. WS has never taken Apple seriously. Especially in the early 80s. I mean, what investment house worth its salt would give credence to a company named Apple... your company had to have a serious name or forget about it.



    True.



    As Apple has gotten very large, and their track record of unparalleled successes gets longer, Wall Street keeps inventing new reasons to be skeptical. Eventually they'll be right, but in the meantime there's been (and continues to be) a stupid amount of money to be made in this stock.
  • Reply 52 of 79
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    ... by 30% the first day and by more than 50% when the carnage is done...



    Oh, hell no. It'll drop 25-30% and be a gigantic buying opportunity when it happens. Set your limits in advance!
  • Reply 53 of 79
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 801 View Post


    I have a completely innocent question:



    Is wall street a leading or lagging indicator of the economy?



    Is Wall street rigged against the small "investor/player"?



    I realize it is not rational. So why "invest" in a system that is not rational. That, to me, is irrational.



    Any enlightenment would be appreciated.



    - Leading AND lagging



    - Yes and no



    - If stocks were completely rational, there would be no chance to make money on them



    That's all for now.
  • Reply 54 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Oh, hell no. It'll drop 25-30% and be a gigantic buying opportunity when it happens. Set your limits in advance!



    I agree... now Apple probably has people with vision that exceeds SJ... and people with the ability to keep it on track. Unlike the late 80s and early 90s when they were just extending the ideas that had been put in place during Steve's era... then they got completely lost so they licensed the OS... Apple really was worth nothing at that point.
  • Reply 55 of 79
    They usually come out with at least one major operating system upgrade during the year between hardware releases. These are available to EVERYONE and add great functionality each time. Most Android upgrades never make it down to people who already own Android phones. My iPhone4 is already better than it was when I bought it.
  • Reply 56 of 79
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,658member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 801 View Post


    I have a completely innocent question:



    Is wall street a leading or lagging indicator of the economy?



    That depends on how you define "the economy". In some ways, it's not an indicator of anything, leading or lagging.
  • Reply 57 of 79
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    How will you make a voice call? LTE is data only. CDMA mandatory for voice. This also applies to Sprint's 4G tech as well.



    Also, Apple didn't have respect already? Guess not. Idiot wall street.



    Well, 4G is supposed to use an OFDM-based signaling layer, so there wouldn't really be CDMA apart from the certain fact that this phone would have to support legacy 3G networks, too. That said, anything with the digital guts to modulate OFDM can certainly be adapted at the baseband level to also do CDMA2K as well as W-CDMA. In other words, any 4G baseband chip probably also has both types of 3G standards on it, as firmware.
  • Reply 58 of 79
    vexorgvexorg Posts: 69member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    I agree... now Apple probably has people with vision that exceeds SJ... and people with the ability to keep it on track. Unlike the late 80s and early 90s when they were just extending the ideas that had been put in place during Steve's era... then they got completely lost so they licensed the OS... Apple really was worth nothing at that point.



    I agree that Apple has people who can keep it on track. Whether there is anybody with the vision and moxie (let alone exceeding that) of SJ is another matter.



    Let's face it - the man is one of a kind.
  • Reply 59 of 79
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sranger View Post


    So I guess a stock climbing to over $300 per share in one of the worst economic times ever was not enough to earn their respect??????



    Investing is making a bet on future growth prospects. That's why Microsoft can rake in several billion dollars a quarter but their stock has been flat for the last 10 years - not much belief that Microsoft can expand once computing moves beyond the desktop.



    The iPhone can't continue to grow stuck to AT&T, or at least that is what Wall Street is betting. Once Apple moves to other carriers in the US, the growth potential of the iPhone will be greatly increased, Android's growth will probably be stunted, and Apple's "respect" on Wall Street will go up. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
  • Reply 60 of 79
    What an absolute bunch of wankers these Wall Street analysts must be? They apparently 'respect' the companies that caused the GFC or profit from selling the tools of death and destruction in other countries, yet not 'respect' one of the few US company that has consistently demonstrated excellence in both innovative product development and global market penetration over the last 10 years.



    I wonder if they will 'respect' the manufacturers of Android phones once the inevitable Android malware starts spreading like wild fires? Just as is happening with MS Windows, Android will only succeed in tying itself and its users in an impenetrable mess that will be easy pickings for Steve Jobs and his team at Apple. But then again, Wall Street never learns from history.
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