While Dolby Digital Plus is an advancement over DD, it is not HD audio, and shouldn't be confused with HD audio. I think you will find movies that contain HD audio formats like DTS-HDMA or TrueHD have a slightly larger audio track than your suggested enhanced audio formats.
You are wrong again. You mean to say that DD+ is not a lossless HD audio, but it is HD audio. The HD audio track formats vary from compressed & uncompressed, lossy and lossless.
Once they make AirPlay an open API. You will be able to stream video content to any device that supports it.
Has there been a suggestion that it might be opened? Or was it like Facetime, where Apple quietly dropped any mention of sending it to a standards body or otherwise producing a specification?
One those Steve Jobs emails. Someone asked him about when will Air Print and Air Play be available to more devices. His reply, "we are working on it, all in due time."
I know its heresay, but I don't see any advantage for Apple to limit the use of Air Print and Air Play. I can see them rolling it out slowly to make sure it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Has there been a suggestion that it might be opened? Or was it like Facetime, where Apple quietly dropped any mention of sending it to a standards body or otherwise producing a specification?
If you are sitting close enough, sure. The further back you go the less noticeable the difference.
True, and if I turn the TV off I can't tell any difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
I can plug an iPod, iPhone, iPad into any television with AV ports and the play video. Every television has AV ports, not every television has a Blu-ray player.
All at SD resolutions... Oh wait, you can use that new format VGA now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Once they make AirPlay an open API. You will be able to stream video content to any device that supports it.
Again, locking you into one vendor, Apple won't open up AirPlay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
As I said this will change when you guys receive Netflix and Hulu type services. Paying Netflix $12 or Hulu $10 a month is a great deal cheaper than buying Blu-ray discs.
Well that really depends on what you watch, and when you want to watch it. SkyTV is currently releasing an online system, I don't want to pay them them watch old programs. The prices you list would be double by the time they come here, so NZ$24 to $30 a month is more expensive than renting a tonne of movies or TV shows on blu-ray. Then, I have to pay for the delivery system as well, jacking the price up some more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
You keep bringing this up as though it is the only online content service.
Where I live it basically is the only way of getting movies online, hence why I bring it up. Now since you live in basically the richest city in the world, maybe you see things differently than the rest of the world.
You are wrong again. You mean to say that DD+ is not a lossless HD audio, but it is HD audio. The HD audio track formats vary from compressed & uncompressed, lossy and lossless.
No, I think you will find you are wrong.
Go lookup DD+, then lookup TrueHD and DTS-HDMA, DD+ is not a HD format, it is an enhanced format.
The main difference between 720p ATV and Blu-Ray is the sharpness. The following is a scan showing XVid, DVD, 720p and 1080p from top to bottom:
Since this sharpness comes from a much higher resolution and much higher bitrate I would still prefer the quality Blu-ray gives me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Of course you can. You can take your iPad that you rent a movie on round to someone else's house who has an Apple TV and view the movie or even plug a device into the TV. I've played iTunes movies off my iPhone on a TV. In the case of iTunes rentals, you need to have an Apple device to stream it to but it's not the case for all rentals.
Someone else's house that has an Apple TV... Apart from myself, I don't know anyone that has an AppleTV, and I have the original, so no Airplay, and I don't own an iPad or iPhone, or iPod touch, so that is no good either.
Interoperability needs to be implement before digital downloads can take off, you can't assume everyone will purchase from the one manufacturer because it won't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
The licensing was changed a while ago but no one said their changes made it acceptable.
Lots of people have said it is more acceptable, I think what you are trying to say is Apple hasn't said it is more acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It makes perfect sense because they are more convenient and the cost and quality difference is negligible to most people. You can buy/rent a movie and start watching it within seconds without leaving your seat.
Seconds? I can't watch an preview on my AppleTV without it stopping every two seconds to buffer some more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
That's just for the Blu-Ray player attached to the TV though. When you get the Blu-Ray player for the computer in order to get the ability to play anywhere, that's when the price gets higher and you notice the noise. For a slight improvement in sharpness it's not worth it. Some streaming services are instant-on too, Blu-Ray can take as much as 25 seconds to load the disc.
My Apple TV can take 25 seconds to start up sometimes, what is your point? And stop with the slight stuff, it is more than slight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Me neither but I want to be able to watch any of them on a mobile device when I go away for a break and it's all I have with me. Also, a lot of people are portable now - 70% of all computer owners are buying laptops/netbooks now and I don't have to say how popular mobile devices and tablets are. I would be shocked to see tablets supporting Blu-Ray, which means that you have to find an alternative way of watching movies on them.
Personally if it is one way of the other, I prefer the higher quality option, I'm afraid Blu-ray wins here again.
It is HD audio, but not in a total lossless format.
i have an opinion of DD+ but we don't need yet another subthread
i would like to know, however, if anyone reading this knows which films on Blu-ray have the DD+ audio track. in my library of about 20 discs, none of them have DD+. the Blu-ray spec mentions that DD+ is optional as well.
Been watching HD downloads for a while now, and I have HD TV broadcast on various channels, in fact I'm watching Wall-E on HDTV right now!
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
That's really vague........yes I know physical media sales persist. That's not in debate. The debate is about the decline of the sales of physical media. And the rise of on demand media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72
i live in Canada. places that sell pre-recorded entertainment on physical media persist alongside their online storefronts.
There is always a compromise in quality for convenience.
The movie you are watching on Blu-ray is a compromise in quality for convenience. A Blu-ray disc is more convenient to use than a thirty pound reel of film and a 35mm projector. The thirty pound reel of film is of higher visual and sound quality than the Blu-ray disc.
For many people the convenience of watching a movie right now without having to leave my home is worth the compromise in quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by womblingfree
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
That's really vague........yes I know physical media sales persist. That's not in debate. The debate is about the decline of the sales of physical media. And the rise of on demand media.
What's to debate? Physical media will ultimately die out, but at the moment for the best viewing experience you need a blu-ray player.
Been watching HD downloads for a while now, and I have HD TV broadcast on various channels, in fact I'm watching Wall-E on HDTV right now!
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
For many people the convenience of watching a movie right now without having to leave my home is worth the compromise in quality.
Yes, but thank goodness we have the choice of watching films like Blade Runner in all their maximised amazingness rather than only being able to download inferior versions. And unless you live in a place devoid of shops or the internet buying a disc is hardly an effort. I'd rather not receive a Netflix download for Christmas either thanks very much.
I download or record off the TV most of my casual HD viewing, but I have many of my favourite films on blu-ray and the best ones are just brilliant. No comparison.
No one's saying that downloads and TV wont get up to speed eventually, I mean current HD technology and streaming is still in its infancy really and there'll be Super HD or whatever before too long. But for the here and now picking up a disc for a few dollars gives the best pics, and if you love film, why not make use of it? Like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Since this sharpness comes from a much higher resolution and much higher bitrate I would still prefer the quality Blu-ray gives me.
And stop with the slight stuff, it is more than slight.
Like I say, 720p is 2/3 the size of 1080p. That's not much lower resolution. It's not even the difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 screen. The following chart has an indicator of screen size to viewing distance benefits based on 20/20 vision:
So if you have a 40" TV, the difference between 720p and 1080p is visible when you are 5ft away from the screen. 10ft away from a 60" screen and you'd see some benefit in 1080p.
The full article promotes 1080p as according to the following chart based on the THX guidelines:
"1080p is the lowest resolution to fall within the recommended seating distance range. Any resolution less than 1080p is not detailed enough if you are sitting the proper distance from the screen. For me and many people with large projection screens, 1080p is the minimum resolution you'd want."
But that's if you have a projector. The conclusion is the following:
"If you are a videophile with a properly setup viewing room, you should definitely be able to notice the resolution enhancement that 1080p brings. However, if you are an average consumer with a flat panel on the far wall of your family room, you are not likely to be close enough to notice any advantage. Check the chart above and use that to make your decision.
ISF states the the most important aspects of picture quality are (in order): 1) contrast ratio, 2) color saturation, 3) color accuracy, 4) resolution."
Apart from myself, I don't know anyone that has an AppleTV
I don't know anyone including myself who owns Blu-Ray. They all have XBox 360s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Interoperability needs to be implement before digital downloads can take off, you can't assume everyone will purchase from the one manufacturer because it won't happen.
There's an agreement being worked on to that effect. I can't remember the name of it but there are discussions to allow you to buy a movie on one format and own it on any distribution. I'm not entirely sure how it will work as bandwidth has to be paid for so if you buy a Blu-Ray disc, how would Apple make money if you could also download it for free?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Lots of people have said it is more acceptable, I think what you are trying to say is Apple hasn't said it is more acceptable.
Well, either that or they have found it acceptable and are in the process of adopting it. What I'm fairly sure about is that the laptops will never get the drives. They simply don't need them built-in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Seconds? I can't watch an preview on my AppleTV without it stopping every two seconds to buffer some more.
It doesn't work with dial-up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
My Apple TV can take 25 seconds to start up sometimes, what is your point?
It doesn't take 25 seconds for every movie not including inserting/ejecting the disc and putting them in the packet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Personally if it is one way of the other, I prefer the higher quality option, I'm afraid Blu-ray wins here again.
For you it does, that's fine. Not everyone puts picture quality first just like with video games. For me personally it's accessibility, then content, then quality. I can watch movies ok on an iPhone screen and have exclusively watched some movies on an iPhone screen. I wouldn't say it's a great experience at that level but my point is that not everyone sees picture quality as the ultimate deciding factor in the success or failure of a distribution format.
You are right that Blu-Ray sales grew more than VOD last year:
but overall sales are going down. This means that the DVD buyers are moving to Blu-Ray, which you'd expect but overall, that market is dropping to favour VOD, which has now reached over 12% marketshare and grown over 50%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by womblingfree
I download or record off the TV most of my casual HD viewing, but I have many of my favourite films on blu-ray and the best ones are just brilliant. No comparison.
You will see more compression artifacts on cable than a VOD service like ATV so you won't be getting a true comparison between just the resolution.
Like I say, 720p is 2/3 the size of 1080p. That's not much lower resolution. It's not even the difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 screen.
720p and 1080p images within the same scale can vary enormously. You can download a 720p movie and it'll be vastly inferior in audio and video to another 720p video due to differing compression.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the best puddings at the moment are well produced blu-rays. Wont always be that way but that's where we are right now.
"yes, i do forsee a time when entertainment will be predominantly available without the option of physical media. this scenario, however, won't be available anytime soon. CDs, DVDs and Blu-rays will be around for years to come. this will be especially true in places where access to reliable and relatively fast broadband connectivity is cost prohibitive."
i have an opinion of DD+ but we don't need yet another subthread
i would like to know, however, if anyone reading this knows which films on Blu-ray have the DD+ audio track. in my library of about 20 discs, none of them have DD+. the Blu-ray spec mentions that DD+ is optional as well.
It doesn't matter when you are streaming HD audio.
Comments
While Dolby Digital Plus is an advancement over DD, it is not HD audio, and shouldn't be confused with HD audio. I think you will find movies that contain HD audio formats like DTS-HDMA or TrueHD have a slightly larger audio track than your suggested enhanced audio formats.
You are wrong again. You mean to say that DD+ is not a lossless HD audio, but it is HD audio. The HD audio track formats vary from compressed & uncompressed, lossy and lossless.
Once they make AirPlay an open API. You will be able to stream video content to any device that supports it.
Has there been a suggestion that it might be opened? Or was it like Facetime, where Apple quietly dropped any mention of sending it to a standards body or otherwise producing a specification?
I know its heresay, but I don't see any advantage for Apple to limit the use of Air Print and Air Play. I can see them rolling it out slowly to make sure it works.
Has there been a suggestion that it might be opened? Or was it like Facetime, where Apple quietly dropped any mention of sending it to a standards body or otherwise producing a specification?
If you are sitting close enough, sure. The further back you go the less noticeable the difference.
True, and if I turn the TV off I can't tell any difference.
I can plug an iPod, iPhone, iPad into any television with AV ports and the play video. Every television has AV ports, not every television has a Blu-ray player.
All at SD resolutions... Oh wait, you can use that new format VGA now.
Once they make AirPlay an open API. You will be able to stream video content to any device that supports it.
Again, locking you into one vendor, Apple won't open up AirPlay.
As I said this will change when you guys receive Netflix and Hulu type services. Paying Netflix $12 or Hulu $10 a month is a great deal cheaper than buying Blu-ray discs.
Well that really depends on what you watch, and when you want to watch it. SkyTV is currently releasing an online system, I don't want to pay them them watch old programs. The prices you list would be double by the time they come here, so NZ$24 to $30 a month is more expensive than renting a tonne of movies or TV shows on blu-ray. Then, I have to pay for the delivery system as well, jacking the price up some more.
You keep bringing this up as though it is the only online content service.
Where I live it basically is the only way of getting movies online, hence why I bring it up. Now since you live in basically the richest city in the world, maybe you see things differently than the rest of the world.
You are wrong again. You mean to say that DD+ is not a lossless HD audio, but it is HD audio. The HD audio track formats vary from compressed & uncompressed, lossy and lossless.
No, I think you will find you are wrong.
Go lookup DD+, then lookup TrueHD and DTS-HDMA, DD+ is not a HD format, it is an enhanced format.
The main difference between 720p ATV and Blu-Ray is the sharpness. The following is a scan showing XVid, DVD, 720p and 1080p from top to bottom:
Since this sharpness comes from a much higher resolution and much higher bitrate I would still prefer the quality Blu-ray gives me.
Of course you can. You can take your iPad that you rent a movie on round to someone else's house who has an Apple TV and view the movie or even plug a device into the TV. I've played iTunes movies off my iPhone on a TV. In the case of iTunes rentals, you need to have an Apple device to stream it to but it's not the case for all rentals.
Someone else's house that has an Apple TV... Apart from myself, I don't know anyone that has an AppleTV, and I have the original, so no Airplay, and I don't own an iPad or iPhone, or iPod touch, so that is no good either.
Interoperability needs to be implement before digital downloads can take off, you can't assume everyone will purchase from the one manufacturer because it won't happen.
The licensing was changed a while ago but no one said their changes made it acceptable.
Lots of people have said it is more acceptable, I think what you are trying to say is Apple hasn't said it is more acceptable.
It makes perfect sense because they are more convenient and the cost and quality difference is negligible to most people. You can buy/rent a movie and start watching it within seconds without leaving your seat.
Seconds? I can't watch an preview on my AppleTV without it stopping every two seconds to buffer some more.
That's just for the Blu-Ray player attached to the TV though. When you get the Blu-Ray player for the computer in order to get the ability to play anywhere, that's when the price gets higher and you notice the noise. For a slight improvement in sharpness it's not worth it. Some streaming services are instant-on too, Blu-Ray can take as much as 25 seconds to load the disc.
My Apple TV can take 25 seconds to start up sometimes, what is your point? And stop with the slight stuff, it is more than slight.
Me neither but I want to be able to watch any of them on a mobile device when I go away for a break and it's all I have with me. Also, a lot of people are portable now - 70% of all computer owners are buying laptops/netbooks now and I don't have to say how popular mobile devices and tablets are. I would be shocked to see tablets supporting Blu-Ray, which means that you have to find an alternative way of watching movies on them.
Personally if it is one way of the other, I prefer the higher quality option, I'm afraid Blu-ray wins here again.
No, I think you will find you are wrong.
Go lookup DD+, then lookup TrueHD and DTS-HDMA, DD+ is not a HD format, it is an enhanced format.
you can learn about it from dolby.
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/unders...s-details.html
It is HD audio, but not in a total lossless format. Just like in the video market, 720p/1080i is considered HD as well as 1080p.
What store do you buy media from? If you are in the US brick and mortar media stores are absolutely nothing like what they were 10 years ago.
i live in Canada. places that sell pre-recorded entertainment on physical media persist alongside their online storefronts.
It is HD audio, but not in a total lossless format.
i have an opinion of DD+ but we don't need yet another subthread
i would like to know, however, if anyone reading this knows which films on Blu-ray have the DD+ audio track. in my library of about 20 discs, none of them have DD+. the Blu-ray spec mentions that DD+ is optional as well.
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
i live in Canada. places that sell pre-recorded entertainment on physical media persist alongside their online storefronts.
The movie you are watching on Blu-ray is a compromise in quality for convenience. A Blu-ray disc is more convenient to use than a thirty pound reel of film and a 35mm projector. The thirty pound reel of film is of higher visual and sound quality than the Blu-ray disc.
For many people the convenience of watching a movie right now without having to leave my home is worth the compromise in quality.
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
That's really vague........yes I know physical media sales persist. That's not in debate. The debate is about the decline of the sales of physical media. And the rise of on demand media.
What's to debate? Physical media will ultimately die out, but at the moment for the best viewing experience you need a blu-ray player.
Been watching HD downloads for a while now, and I have HD TV broadcast on various channels, in fact I'm watching Wall-E on HDTV right now!
The quality of these compressed broadcasts and downloads is vastly inferior in general to what you experience with a well made Blu-ray and a decent TV. Wall-E on Blu is incredible, the version I'm watching now is merely ok.
Have you tried a Vudu HDX stream yet?
For many people the convenience of watching a movie right now without having to leave my home is worth the compromise in quality.
Yes, but thank goodness we have the choice of watching films like Blade Runner in all their maximised amazingness rather than only being able to download inferior versions. And unless you live in a place devoid of shops or the internet buying a disc is hardly an effort. I'd rather not receive a Netflix download for Christmas either thanks very much.
I download or record off the TV most of my casual HD viewing, but I have many of my favourite films on blu-ray and the best ones are just brilliant. No comparison.
Have you tried a Vudu HDX stream yet?
Nope. How do I get it on my TV?
No one's saying that downloads and TV wont get up to speed eventually, I mean current HD technology and streaming is still in its infancy really and there'll be Super HD or whatever before too long. But for the here and now picking up a disc for a few dollars gives the best pics, and if you love film, why not make use of it? Like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Since this sharpness comes from a much higher resolution and much higher bitrate I would still prefer the quality Blu-ray gives me.
And stop with the slight stuff, it is more than slight.
Like I say, 720p is 2/3 the size of 1080p. That's not much lower resolution. It's not even the difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 screen. The following chart has an indicator of screen size to viewing distance benefits based on 20/20 vision:
So if you have a 40" TV, the difference between 720p and 1080p is visible when you are 5ft away from the screen. 10ft away from a 60" screen and you'd see some benefit in 1080p.
The full article promotes 1080p as according to the following chart based on the THX guidelines:
"1080p is the lowest resolution to fall within the recommended seating distance range. Any resolution less than 1080p is not detailed enough if you are sitting the proper distance from the screen. For me and many people with large projection screens, 1080p is the minimum resolution you'd want."
But that's if you have a projector. The conclusion is the following:
"If you are a videophile with a properly setup viewing room, you should definitely be able to notice the resolution enhancement that 1080p brings. However, if you are an average consumer with a flat panel on the far wall of your family room, you are not likely to be close enough to notice any advantage. Check the chart above and use that to make your decision.
ISF states the the most important aspects of picture quality are (in order): 1) contrast ratio, 2) color saturation, 3) color accuracy, 4) resolution."
http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter
Apart from myself, I don't know anyone that has an AppleTV
I don't know anyone including myself who owns Blu-Ray. They all have XBox 360s.
Interoperability needs to be implement before digital downloads can take off, you can't assume everyone will purchase from the one manufacturer because it won't happen.
There's an agreement being worked on to that effect. I can't remember the name of it but there are discussions to allow you to buy a movie on one format and own it on any distribution. I'm not entirely sure how it will work as bandwidth has to be paid for so if you buy a Blu-Ray disc, how would Apple make money if you could also download it for free?
Lots of people have said it is more acceptable, I think what you are trying to say is Apple hasn't said it is more acceptable.
Well, either that or they have found it acceptable and are in the process of adopting it. What I'm fairly sure about is that the laptops will never get the drives. They simply don't need them built-in.
Seconds? I can't watch an preview on my AppleTV without it stopping every two seconds to buffer some more.
It doesn't work with dial-up.
My Apple TV can take 25 seconds to start up sometimes, what is your point?
It doesn't take 25 seconds for every movie not including inserting/ejecting the disc and putting them in the packet.
Personally if it is one way of the other, I prefer the higher quality option, I'm afraid Blu-ray wins here again.
For you it does, that's fine. Not everyone puts picture quality first just like with video games. For me personally it's accessibility, then content, then quality. I can watch movies ok on an iPhone screen and have exclusively watched some movies on an iPhone screen. I wouldn't say it's a great experience at that level but my point is that not everyone sees picture quality as the ultimate deciding factor in the success or failure of a distribution format.
You are right that Blu-Ray sales grew more than VOD last year:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118029765?refCatId=14
but overall sales are going down. This means that the DVD buyers are moving to Blu-Ray, which you'd expect but overall, that market is dropping to favour VOD, which has now reached over 12% marketshare and grown over 50%.
I download or record off the TV most of my casual HD viewing, but I have many of my favourite films on blu-ray and the best ones are just brilliant. No comparison.
You will see more compression artifacts on cable than a VOD service like ATV so you won't be getting a true comparison between just the resolution.
Like I say, 720p is 2/3 the size of 1080p. That's not much lower resolution. It's not even the difference between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 screen.
720p and 1080p images within the same scale can vary enormously. You can download a 720p movie and it'll be vastly inferior in audio and video to another 720p video due to differing compression.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the best puddings at the moment are well produced blu-rays. Wont always be that way but that's where we are right now.
The debate is about the decline of the sales of physical media. And the rise of on demand media.
debate?! re-read what i said over at http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=255
"yes, i do forsee a time when entertainment will be predominantly available without the option of physical media. this scenario, however, won't be available anytime soon. CDs, DVDs and Blu-rays will be around for years to come. this will be especially true in places where access to reliable and relatively fast broadband connectivity is cost prohibitive."
i have an opinion of DD+ but we don't need yet another subthread
i would like to know, however, if anyone reading this knows which films on Blu-ray have the DD+ audio track. in my library of about 20 discs, none of them have DD+. the Blu-ray spec mentions that DD+ is optional as well.
It doesn't matter when you are streaming HD audio.