these are very important figures, not only for profitability but also for adoption of the platform.
Ideally these would also include other devices that run on the OS'es (and specified with the capabilities of the devices that the OS can tap into)
Lets remind the early days of MAC OS vs Windows, the Mac almost dissapeared in '97. Why could it again lead to this??? Well, just like in the 80's, Android is freely available for other manufacturers to implement it in their devices, while iOS is not. widespread of the Android system in current applications and new ones (like seen in cars on CES) could lead to an Android platform that is many times more wide spread than the iOS platform. That's why developers would be more likely to pass up on the iOS platform than the Android platform.
now this is pessimistically off course, and i assume Apple has learned its lesson; but still this lingers in my mind...
This isn't the 80's, Apple is a much different company than they were then, Google is NOT equivalent to Microsoft of the 80's. Apple nearly failed due to executive incompetence. Not because they weren't open or whatever. Microsoft drove licensing with every PC hardware maker that made Windows the de facto OS standard - they didn't give it away. And Google is NOT in the market to build OSes - Android is their means of driving ad revenue in the mobile space, because their profitability is flattening in the desktop ad space. It is only a matter of time before another upstart (or former Google developer) comes up with the next, better search tool that will impact Google's control of search+ad. They know this and hence the focussed drive into mobile ad space.
Putting Android in cars and refrigerators and air conditioning units will certainly drive up the installed base, but what developer is going to write games for your fridge? Developers have a slippery slope with Android, because Google isn't interested in paid-for apps - they want free apps that depend on ad revenue, and that abstracts the profitability of the app, and makes it dependent on Google continuing to be generous and continuing to support Android. If Chrom matures and becomes ready for primetime, look for support for Android to slowly diminish as Google will have even greater control over Chrome and will make it the de facto standard.
The comparison between Apple/Microsoft 80's and Apple/Google now is superficial and highly inaccurate in so many ways it is embarrassing to watch so-called pundits strain to draw the comparison.
Google maybe the free OS but the actual money and risk is being put in by the manufacturers who are all going to be cutting each other's throats. Apple meanwhile sale on.
In related news, all Korean cars combined outsold the Honda Accord.
Why is it any surprise that 100 different phones would outsell the #1 phone?
Oh, and btw, Apple is not interested in share, per se. They'd rather have a 25% share and make money than a 90% share and break even. Look at the PC market where Apple's 5-10% share accounts for 30-40% of the entire industry's profits.
Strong sales of phones running Google Android throughout 2010 have managed to push the mobile platform past Apple's iPhone in total active subscribers for the first time, according to comScore.
I think that our friends are cooking the books here!
Both platforms will grow as the market grows and also with the demise of Blackberry and Symbian. However, in a year or two, I see Apple settling in with its minority market share earning high margins, as it does so well, making high quality products. Nothing wrong with this. I've owned macs for many years.
Too much is made of marketshare alone and even Apple has been guilty lately of blowing up the importance of this number. What I like about Apple is its outsized profitability relative to its marketshare in most its product categories.
This question would be valid except that when Android became available on ATT, the target smartphone demographic had already left ATT or bought an iphone, most becoming happy owners. Many iphone owners will move to Verizon and many upgraders on Verizon will choose an iPhone. My point, however, is that we will not see a reversal in the trend over the next six months.
My prediction is that Android will maintain faster quarterly growth... not for reasons of user interface, but due to lower cost (Sprint, Tmobile) and choices in form factor and unique features.
Both platforms will grow as the market grows and also with the demise of Blackberry and Symbian. However, in a year or two, I see Apple settling in with its minority market share earning high margins, as it does so well, making high quality products. Nothing wrong with this. I've owned macs for many years.
There are a couple of key factors you are neglecting. Remember, Verizon has indicated that Android is loosing its luster; furthermore Verizon has given further concessions to Apple to maintain exclusivity with AT&T; Why, because Verizon is confident that they can attract the switchovers from T-Mobile and Sprint that AT&T could not. As we all know, Android is furthering its deep fragmentation with multiple Android versions on multiple mobile devices. Google is not about experience, they wants fingers clicking on Ads. More problems for Google relate to Chrome and Android.......stupidly, they are two different development environments which will add even deeper fragmentation to their mobile and desktop spaces. Apple enjoys the fruits of simply extending their desktop API to IOS as mobile processors become more powerful. Beautiful thing! RIM will see deep losses as will NOKIA. Palm is dead, yet, they still believe that HPs ability to scale their WEB OS will somehow resurrect it. microsoft....eh.....balmer. I predict Google and Apple as the big players in 2011 with Google feeling the same pain in the mobile market that they now enjoy with Google TV.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
This is a direct result of Apple?s love affair with AT&T. I understand AT&T took a risk when no one else did, but by the time the iPhone 3Gs came around, Apple should have offered it to any and all carriers that wanted it.
I don't think Apple has a love affair with ATT, but they do/did have a binding contract.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
Based on that rationale the Ovi store and all those mobile Java app stores that have been around for years should be the primary focus for developers but they aren?t because there is no 1:1 ratio of OS marketshare to profit.
That said, it?s possible to run numbers to get average of net profit (after removing all expenses as developing for different platforms don?t cost the same) from a said app types to see how much more of an installed base (on consumer devices) a mobile OS would have to have to be the greater focus over the current market leader. I don?t think Android is anywhere near that level.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
This will really depend on how profitable ad-supported apps are. With the App store, the developer gets to set his price and take his cut while most Android apps rely on those ads.
Does anyone know what the typical payout is for an impression from Google ads?
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
exactly my point, but luckily none of the people on this forum have to agree, but it is Apple that has to watch out. They have to make sure their platform stays top notch and remains widespread.
All it means is that the ios platform is not the most popular amongst smartphone owners. Apple's client base has always been a niche market until the iphone came along and then they made billions. Now they can go back to making a high end niche product and earn record profits from loyalists. I think it's a winning formula.
On Galaxy S, Samsung also has a winning formula and it's a win-win in a growing market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0rdread
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
What about when you throw in tablet users (iPad) and other device (iPod Touch) all using iOS, all able to be targeted by the same developers on the iOS platform.
Then there's the fact that America isn't the iPhone's only market, that the majority of iPhones are sold outside the US..
What about when you throw in tablet users (iPad) and other device (iPod Touch) all using iOS, all able to be targeted by the same developers on the iOS platform.
Then there's the fact that America isn't the iPhones only market.
The numbers the fanboys conveniently forget.
I wonder who the real fanboy is here...
i am a big apple fan, but with a healthy business sense and business education, which allows me to view it from another angle as well.
More rationalization on how phones running Android vs iPhones is not a valid comparison? We need to include non phone devices like iPads and iPods, or we should count all iPhones as iPhones, but treat the different Android devices separately?
seriously? now its google + samsung + LG + philips + sony ericsson + every other android device maker vs Apple when it comes to platforms
the levels are not equal
Maybe the levels aren't equal. But Apple has a disproportionate share of the profits in the feature smartphone market. As long as that remains the case...Apple are on to a winner.
Android is fast becoming a race to the bottom on price, just as with the Windows-based PC market. Hardly any profit to be had in PCs, and Apple has the vast majority of that too.
They have to make sure their platform stays top notch and remains widespread.
Neither of which means they have to have the largest installed based. Logic dictates if that were the only criteria for being profitable and desirable they would have licensed or given their OS.
Also, note that iOS and Android both made very popular app stores while not even being close to the most popular mobile OSes on the market. That should tell us something about marketshare not being as important as other aspects of business.
Comments
these are very important figures, not only for profitability but also for adoption of the platform.
Ideally these would also include other devices that run on the OS'es (and specified with the capabilities of the devices that the OS can tap into)
Lets remind the early days of MAC OS vs Windows, the Mac almost dissapeared in '97. Why could it again lead to this??? Well, just like in the 80's, Android is freely available for other manufacturers to implement it in their devices, while iOS is not. widespread of the Android system in current applications and new ones (like seen in cars on CES) could lead to an Android platform that is many times more wide spread than the iOS platform. That's why developers would be more likely to pass up on the iOS platform than the Android platform.
now this is pessimistically off course, and i assume Apple has learned its lesson; but still this lingers in my mind...
This isn't the 80's, Apple is a much different company than they were then, Google is NOT equivalent to Microsoft of the 80's. Apple nearly failed due to executive incompetence. Not because they weren't open or whatever. Microsoft drove licensing with every PC hardware maker that made Windows the de facto OS standard - they didn't give it away. And Google is NOT in the market to build OSes - Android is their means of driving ad revenue in the mobile space, because their profitability is flattening in the desktop ad space. It is only a matter of time before another upstart (or former Google developer) comes up with the next, better search tool that will impact Google's control of search+ad. They know this and hence the focussed drive into mobile ad space.
Putting Android in cars and refrigerators and air conditioning units will certainly drive up the installed base, but what developer is going to write games for your fridge? Developers have a slippery slope with Android, because Google isn't interested in paid-for apps - they want free apps that depend on ad revenue, and that abstracts the profitability of the app, and makes it dependent on Google continuing to be generous and continuing to support Android. If Chrom matures and becomes ready for primetime, look for support for Android to slowly diminish as Google will have even greater control over Chrome and will make it the de facto standard.
The comparison between Apple/Microsoft 80's and Apple/Google now is superficial and highly inaccurate in so many ways it is embarrassing to watch so-called pundits strain to draw the comparison.
Why is it any surprise that 100 different phones would outsell the #1 phone?
Oh, and btw, Apple is not interested in share, per se. They'd rather have a 25% share and make money than a 90% share and break even. Look at the PC market where Apple's 5-10% share accounts for 30-40% of the entire industry's profits.
Strong sales of phones running Google Android throughout 2010 have managed to push the mobile platform past Apple's iPhone in total active subscribers for the first time, according to comScore.
I think that our friends are cooking the books here!
Both platforms will grow as the market grows and also with the demise of Blackberry and Symbian. However, in a year or two, I see Apple settling in with its minority market share earning high margins, as it does so well, making high quality products. Nothing wrong with this. I've owned macs for many years.
Too much is made of marketshare alone and even Apple has been guilty lately of blowing up the importance of this number. What I like about Apple is its outsized profitability relative to its marketshare in most its product categories.
fecklesstechguy just cracked a serious wipe. Excellent rebuttal.
Game on. Target - bloody twits who use specious arguments to make dubious and inaccurate points of no effective value.
This question would be valid except that when Android became available on ATT, the target smartphone demographic had already left ATT or bought an iphone, most becoming happy owners. Many iphone owners will move to Verizon and many upgraders on Verizon will choose an iPhone. My point, however, is that we will not see a reversal in the trend over the next six months.
My prediction is that Android will maintain faster quarterly growth... not for reasons of user interface, but due to lower cost (Sprint, Tmobile) and choices in form factor and unique features.
Both platforms will grow as the market grows and also with the demise of Blackberry and Symbian. However, in a year or two, I see Apple settling in with its minority market share earning high margins, as it does so well, making high quality products. Nothing wrong with this. I've owned macs for many years.
There are a couple of key factors you are neglecting. Remember, Verizon has indicated that Android is loosing its luster; furthermore Verizon has given further concessions to Apple to maintain exclusivity with AT&T; Why, because Verizon is confident that they can attract the switchovers from T-Mobile and Sprint that AT&T could not. As we all know, Android is furthering its deep fragmentation with multiple Android versions on multiple mobile devices. Google is not about experience, they wants fingers clicking on Ads. More problems for Google relate to Chrome and Android.......stupidly, they are two different development environments which will add even deeper fragmentation to their mobile and desktop spaces. Apple enjoys the fruits of simply extending their desktop API to IOS as mobile processors become more powerful. Beautiful thing! RIM will see deep losses as will NOKIA. Palm is dead, yet, they still believe that HPs ability to scale their WEB OS will somehow resurrect it. microsoft....eh.....balmer. I predict Google and Apple as the big players in 2011 with Google feeling the same pain in the mobile market that they now enjoy with Google TV.
This is a direct result of Apple?s love affair with AT&T. I understand AT&T took a risk when no one else did, but by the time the iPhone 3Gs came around, Apple should have offered it to any and all carriers that wanted it.
I don't think Apple has a love affair with ATT, but they do/did have a binding contract.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
Based on that rationale the Ovi store and all those mobile Java app stores that have been around for years should be the primary focus for developers but they aren?t because there is no 1:1 ratio of OS marketshare to profit.
That said, it?s possible to run numbers to get average of net profit (after removing all expenses as developing for different platforms don?t cost the same) from a said app types to see how much more of an installed base (on consumer devices) a mobile OS would have to have to be the greater focus over the current market leader. I don?t think Android is anywhere near that level.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
This will really depend on how profitable ad-supported apps are. With the App store, the developer gets to set his price and take his cut while most Android apps rely on those ads.
Does anyone know what the typical payout is for an impression from Google ads?
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
exactly my point, but luckily none of the people on this forum have to agree, but it is Apple that has to watch out. They have to make sure their platform stays top notch and remains widespread.
All it means is that the ios platform is not the most popular amongst smartphone owners. Apple's client base has always been a niche market until the iphone came along and then they made billions. Now they can go back to making a high end niche product and earn record profits from loyalists. I think it's a winning formula.
On Galaxy S, Samsung also has a winning formula and it's a win-win in a growing market.
If Android takes a significant lead over iOS, guess where the developers are going to go? Not saying that they would all leave iOS, but Android might start getting Apps first, and iOS second. The exact opposite of what is happening now. Because developers will go where they can get the most exposure, and thus the greatest potential for profit/exposure/fame...
What about when you throw in tablet users (iPad) and other device (iPod Touch) all using iOS, all able to be targeted by the same developers on the iOS platform.
Then there's the fact that America isn't the iPhone's only market, that the majority of iPhones are sold outside the US..
The numbers the fanboys conveniently forget.
What about when you throw in tablet users (iPad) and other device (iPod Touch) all using iOS, all able to be targeted by the same developers on the iOS platform.
Then there's the fact that America isn't the iPhones only market.
The numbers the fanboys conveniently forget.
I wonder who the real fanboy is here...
i am a big apple fan, but with a healthy business sense and business education, which allows me to view it from another angle as well.
Oh no! What will DED do to spin this awful news?
More rationalization on how phones running Android vs iPhones is not a valid comparison? We need to include non phone devices like iPads and iPods, or we should count all iPhones as iPhones, but treat the different Android devices separately?
Boring...
...ignoring!
I wonder who the real fanboy is here...
i am a big apple fan, but with a healthy business sense and business education, which allows me to view it from another angle as well.
One who recognises that "smartphones" aren't the only market available to iOS developers.
seriously? now its google + samsung + LG + philips + sony ericsson + every other android device maker vs Apple when it comes to platforms
the levels are not equal
Maybe the levels aren't equal. But Apple has a disproportionate share of the profits in the feature smartphone market. As long as that remains the case...Apple are on to a winner.
Android is fast becoming a race to the bottom on price, just as with the Windows-based PC market. Hardly any profit to be had in PCs, and Apple has the vast majority of that too.
They have to make sure their platform stays top notch and remains widespread.
Neither of which means they have to have the largest installed based. Logic dictates if that were the only criteria for being profitable and desirable they would have licensed or given their OS.
Also, note that iOS and Android both made very popular app stores while not even being close to the most popular mobile OSes on the market. That should tell us something about marketshare not being as important as other aspects of business.