I've been living without a TeeVee during the week and had to rely on NPR for my coverage of the whole LaPen thing. ****ing hilarious. NPR is a total joke and the people they had on were not at all objective. Not once did I hear any of what LaPen had to say. Only what other people have to say about what LaPen said years ago and what they think of people who vote for LaPen. People voting for LaPen were seen by NPR as a "problem" to be "solved".
Not that I'm excusing NPRs bias, if they did have one, but I can't imagine making myself be objective about a bigot like Le Pen. I think people voted for him just to scare Chirac into action.
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</p>
<strong>Jacques Chirac won the elections with more than 82 % of the votes against the populist right winged Jean Marie Le Pen.</strong><hr></blockquote>As some political observers observed, "Some choice that, between a crook and a rascist." Poor France <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I heard some people voted wearing surgical gloves and a mask. Quite funny in a way, but then again, not.
- T.I.
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: The Installer ]</p>
Even though it was clear that there was never really a race I wondered what Le Pen would do though. Had he been elected president how would he have explained to the French people that it´s basically not possible to ship all the foreigners out of the country. Way too expensive and logistically not doable.
What I find even funnier than the entire situation though is the amount of lefties that all of a sudden vote Chiraq yet the rest of the year spit on the man. Leave it to the lefties to be that hypocritical.
<strong>I've been living without a TeeVee during the week and had to rely on NPR for my coverage of the whole LaPen thing. ****ing hilarious. NPR is a total joke and the people they had on were not at all objective. Not once did I hear any of what LaPen had to say. Only what other people have to say about what LaPen said years ago and what they think of people who vote for LaPen. People voting for LaPen were seen by NPR as a "problem" to be "solved".
Un bias media my ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I Frankly doubt Scott H (are you the same Scott H Than in the past ? but with an other IP adress ?) that you will like this man.
In the past Le Pen supported Saddam Hussein, has declared that the Gaz's chambers where a detail of history. He said he is against mondialism, and you must know that people speaking of mondialism always design US as the principle vector of mondialism.
His economic program was absolutely ridiculous and pure non-sense :
- suppression of all taxes on the salaries
- leave euro
- quit EU
- make the national preference
Luckyly for your countrie you have not this type of men, it's a shame for my countrie that this man get 18 % of the vote, but it's a honor that 82 % of them vote against him to save the republic and the democratia.
[quote]What I find even funnier than the entire situation though is the amount of lefties that all of a sudden vote Chiraq yet the rest of the year spit on the man. Leave it to the lefties to be that hypocritical. <hr></blockquote>
In the initial election, Chirac garnered 20% of the vote, followed by Le Pen with 17%. However, other candidates on the left collectively had 27% of the vote. Shades of Nader, anyone?
Obviously, the "lefties," as you describe them, were split among multiple left-leaning candidates, allowing Le Pen to enter the runoff. Then, when only Le Pen and Chirac were left, Le Pen gathered approximately the same percentage of the vote, meaning that everyone who voted for the left-leaning candidates threw their support behind Chirac.
How is this hypocritical? If it is, then what's the point of a runoff?
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</p>
I'm sure all the stuff they say about La Pen is true. I'm sure I wouldn't vote for him. But you'd think in an election they'd let the guy be heard. But no. Let me just hear what the guy has to say. If it's distasteful I'll know it.
Also I got wrong above. NPR sees the rise of the political "right" in Europe a "problem" to be "solved".
The coverage on Le Pen has been total crap. I know nothing of the man from his own words. I know nothing of the people who voted for him from their own words. Just the left proclaiming it a type of "protest" vote or a vote from people who don't know what they are doing. They dismiss La Pen voters out of hand. Bad coverage all around.
Maybe. And this is crazy. People are voting for the right because they don't agree with the politics of the left. Wild idea, I know.
<strong>I'm sure all the stuff they say about La Pen is true. I'm sure I wouldn't vote for him. But you'd think in an election they'd let the guy be heard. But no. Let me just hear what the guy has to say. If it's distasteful I'll know it.
Also I got wrong above. NPR sees the rise of the political "right" in Europe a "problem" to be "solved".
The coverage on Le Pen has been total crap. I know nothing of the man from his own words. I know nothing of the people who voted for him from their own words. Just the left proclaiming it a type of "protest" vote or a vote from people who don't know what they are doing. They dismiss La Pen voters out of hand. Bad coverage all around.
Maybe. And this is crazy. People are voting for the right because they don't agree with the politics of the left. Wild idea, I know.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have made my opinions of Le Pen by his own words : really a (bad) joke. However i understand that there is not good coverage if there is not report of his own words. What is NPR ?
NPR is National Public Radio, which is carried in just about every radio market in the country. I tend to like their coverage more than the commercial cable networks, just because they don't sensationalize the news. But at times they can be a little pretentious.
<strong>NPR is National Public Radio, which is carried in just about every radio market in the country. I tend to like their coverage more than the commercial cable networks, just because they don't sensationalize the news. But at times they can be a little pretentious.
<strong>Scott: If you really are looking for an european "leader" that is anti-jewish I would say that Le Pen is your man. 18% is 18% too much.</strong><hr></blockquote>
LePen (not LA Pen), for as much as he disturbs me, has publicly declared that he is not anti-semitic.
LePen saying that the Gas chambers in WW2 are a detail IS true. Gas chambers were NOT known about until very late or until end of war. WW2 was 99% about not letting the Axis dominate the world. Thats basically what he is saying. Are they a detail? yes... as the nuclear bombs are as well... a detail is something that is part of a whole. Aaaanyway.
Despite LePen losing majorly, 18% represents MILLIONS of French voters. The only part of his promises that I hope are taken up and not ignored are the tougher illegal immigration proposals.
As I have expressed in other threads, immigration is just friggen rampant here. It cannot continue to be ignored for much longer... otherwise we will see more hateful people like LePen getting elected in other European countries soon. Scary thought.
Exactly. Either Le Pen was as bad as everyone said he was and France gave their version of David Duke 18% of the vote or he wasn't as bad as everyone said he was and most of the country just had a nervous breakdown over the guy. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
In the initial election, Chirac garnered 20% of the vote, followed by Le Pen with 17%. However, other candidates on the left collectively had 27% of the vote. Shades of Nader, anyone?
Obviously, the "lefties," as you describe them, were split among multiple left-leaning candidates, allowing Le Pen to enter the runoff. Then, when only Le Pen and Chirac were left, Le Pen gathered approximately the same percentage of the vote, meaning that everyone who voted for the left-leaning candidates threw their support behind Chirac.
How is this hypocritical? If it is, then what's the point of a runoff?
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
May I ask why you repeat the exact same thing I have just said?
It is hypocritical because of the way the left has expressed itself on the matter of Chiracq, the person. The rest of the time they seem him as the voice of evil. They spit on the guy and his politics.
If there is a run off between two people you can not identify you don´t vote. Simple as that. How can you vote on someone that does not express your views on politics? The only way you can justify that is if you´re a hypocrite.
The only reason they all voted for Chiracq was so Le Pen wouldn´t win. One votes for what they believe in, not what they´re more against. That unpurifies the end result.
May I ask why you repeat the exact same thing I have just said?
It is hypocritical because of the way the left has expressed itself on the matter of Chiracq, the person. The rest of the time they seem him as the voice of evil. They spit on the guy and his politics.
If there is a run off between two people you can not identify you don´t vote. Simple as that. How can you vote on someone that does not express your views on politics? The only way you can justify that is if you´re a hypocrite.
The only reason they all voted for Chiracq was so Le Pen wouldn´t win. One votes for what they believe in, not what they´re more against. That unpurifies the end result.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is not simple as that : many political leaders of the left ask to vote for Chirac, but it 's the french citizens who decided for who to vote : vote for a man who they know , who have defaults (and the lefties have yelled about this many times) and quality (aka respect of the republic and the democratia), or vote for a man who is a populist with a stupid economic program (the death of the French economy according to most economists of France and the world) and who have strange conceptions of democratia in the past (nothing to have to do with the Pim Fortuyn who was against Le Pen.
Some ultra leftie like the enraged Arlette Laguiller ask her elector to not vote : the result 70 % voted for chirac, 8 % voted for Le Pen and the rest was abstention. It's seems that elector do not obey to her.
So it's the french people who decided to elect Chirac, not the leftie leaders. The leftie leaders know in advance that whatever they will say that Chirac will win.( If Jospin will be against Le pen, i will vote for Jospin whatever the politic leaders can say.). , so they decide to make them heroes who let pass their own political opinions behind the sake of the nation, much better than say that there will be abstention (this latter attitude will lead irrevocabily to a strong legislative election defeat for them).
Yes it's funny to discover that Chirac according to the lefties, after beeing the devil was the last defense against fascism, and better after explaining that a new cohabitation will be a disaster they explains that a new cohabitation is recommended now.
This is not simple as that : many political leaders of the left ask to vote for Chirac, but it 's the french citizens who decided for who to vote : vote for a man who they know , who have defaults (and the lefties have yelled about this many times) and quality (aka respect of the republic and the democratia), or vote for a man who is a populist with a stupid economic program (the death of the French economy according to most economists of France and the world) and who have strange conceptions of democratia in the past (nothing to have to do with the Pim Fortuyn who was against Le Pen.
Some ultra leftie like the enraged Arlette Laguiller ask her elector to not vote : the result 70 % voted for chirac, 8 % voted for Le Pen and the rest was abstention. It's seems that elector do not obey to her.
So it's the french people who decided to elect Chirac, not the leftie leaders. The leftie leaders know in advance that whatever they will say that Chirac will win.( If Jospin will be against Le pen, i will vote for Jospin whatever the politic leaders can say.). , so they decide to make them heroes who let pass their own political opinions behind the sake of the nation, much better than say that there will be abstention (this latter attitude will lead irrevocabily to a strong legislative election defeat for them).
Yes it's funny to discover that Chirac according to the lefties, after beeing the devil was the last defense against fascism, and better after explaining that a new cohabitation will be a disaster they explains that a new cohabitation is recommended now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The hypocrisy is not just in the voting for someone denounced as evil by the same people who denounced him. It´s as much in the fact that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, these same people will start denouncing him again now.
They could have had trust in the democracy of the country and the fact that it was clear from the start that Le Pen was not going to beat Chiracq.
Voting to derail someone else´s chances is just as undemocratic as Le Pen and his ideas are.
Voting to derail someone else´s chances is just as undemocratic as Le Pen and his ideas are.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Holy **** : voting Le Pen equal the end of France as i use to know. Politic is not sport .
People has to make choice, continue the republic or go in something else. 80 % of the french people want to continue the republic that's all. I have voted Chirac, first and second turn of the election. but if the second turn it was between Jospin and Le pen i will have voted Jospin dispite the fact i do not share his politic concerning economy. But i share his conception of liberty and democratia. Sorry but i do not share the populist ( by populist i mean a man ready to say any craps that will bring him votes) conception of democratia and liberty. As a doctor his conception of the exercice of Medecine is in full contradiction with our deontologic code aka bring the same care and attention to every patient.
For left people voting chirac was a republican vote, for me it was my natural choice. There is nothing hypocritical to prefer democratia and republic rather than populist neo fascist vote.
Comments
Un bias media my ass.
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</p>
<strong>Jacques Chirac won the elections with more than 82 % of the votes against the populist right winged Jean Marie Le Pen.</strong><hr></blockquote>As some political observers observed, "Some choice that, between a crook and a rascist." Poor France <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I heard some people voted wearing surgical gloves and a mask. Quite funny in a way, but then again, not.
- T.I.
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: The Installer ]</p>
What I find even funnier than the entire situation though is the amount of lefties that all of a sudden vote Chiraq yet the rest of the year spit on the man. Leave it to the lefties to be that hypocritical.
<strong>I've been living without a TeeVee during the week and had to rely on NPR for my coverage of the whole LaPen thing. ****ing hilarious. NPR is a total joke and the people they had on were not at all objective. Not once did I hear any of what LaPen had to say. Only what other people have to say about what LaPen said years ago and what they think of people who vote for LaPen. People voting for LaPen were seen by NPR as a "problem" to be "solved".
Un bias media my ass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I Frankly doubt Scott H (are you the same Scott H Than in the past ? but with an other IP adress ?) that you will like this man.
In the past Le Pen supported Saddam Hussein, has declared that the Gaz's chambers where a detail of history. He said he is against mondialism, and you must know that people speaking of mondialism always design US as the principle vector of mondialism.
His economic program was absolutely ridiculous and pure non-sense :
- suppression of all taxes on the salaries
- leave euro
- quit EU
- make the national preference
Luckyly for your countrie you have not this type of men, it's a shame for my countrie that this man get 18 % of the vote, but it's a honor that 82 % of them vote against him to save the republic and the democratia.
In the initial election, Chirac garnered 20% of the vote, followed by Le Pen with 17%. However, other candidates on the left collectively had 27% of the vote. Shades of Nader, anyone?
Obviously, the "lefties," as you describe them, were split among multiple left-leaning candidates, allowing Le Pen to enter the runoff. Then, when only Le Pen and Chirac were left, Le Pen gathered approximately the same percentage of the vote, meaning that everyone who voted for the left-leaning candidates threw their support behind Chirac.
How is this hypocritical? If it is, then what's the point of a runoff?
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</p>
Also I got wrong above. NPR sees the rise of the political "right" in Europe a "problem" to be "solved".
The coverage on Le Pen has been total crap. I know nothing of the man from his own words. I know nothing of the people who voted for him from their own words. Just the left proclaiming it a type of "protest" vote or a vote from people who don't know what they are doing. They dismiss La Pen voters out of hand. Bad coverage all around.
Maybe. And this is crazy. People are voting for the right because they don't agree with the politics of the left. Wild idea, I know.
<strong>I'm sure all the stuff they say about La Pen is true. I'm sure I wouldn't vote for him. But you'd think in an election they'd let the guy be heard. But no. Let me just hear what the guy has to say. If it's distasteful I'll know it.
Also I got wrong above. NPR sees the rise of the political "right" in Europe a "problem" to be "solved".
The coverage on Le Pen has been total crap. I know nothing of the man from his own words. I know nothing of the people who voted for him from their own words. Just the left proclaiming it a type of "protest" vote or a vote from people who don't know what they are doing. They dismiss La Pen voters out of hand. Bad coverage all around.
Maybe. And this is crazy. People are voting for the right because they don't agree with the politics of the left. Wild idea, I know.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have made my opinions of Le Pen by his own words : really a (bad) joke. However i understand that there is not good coverage if there is not report of his own words. What is NPR ?
(edit: here's a link: <a href="http://www.npr.org"; target="_blank">http://www.npr.org</a>
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</p>
<strong>NPR is National Public Radio, which is carried in just about every radio market in the country. I tend to like their coverage more than the commercial cable networks, just because they don't sensationalize the news. But at times they can be a little pretentious.
(edit: here's a link: <a href="http://www.npr.org"; target="_blank">http://www.npr.org</a>
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: poor taylor ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info.
<strong>Scott: If you really are looking for an european "leader" that is anti-jewish I would say that Le Pen is your man. 18% is 18% too much.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with that
LePen saying that the Gas chambers in WW2 are a detail IS true. Gas chambers were NOT known about until very late or until end of war. WW2 was 99% about not letting the Axis dominate the world. Thats basically what he is saying. Are they a detail? yes... as the nuclear bombs are as well... a detail is something that is part of a whole. Aaaanyway.
Despite LePen losing majorly, 18% represents MILLIONS of French voters. The only part of his promises that I hope are taken up and not ignored are the tougher illegal immigration proposals.
As I have expressed in other threads, immigration is just friggen rampant here. It cannot continue to be ignored for much longer... otherwise we will see more hateful people like LePen getting elected in other European countries soon. Scary thought.
<strong>... ****ing hilarious...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. Either Le Pen was as bad as everyone said he was and France gave their version of David Duke 18% of the vote or he wasn't as bad as everyone said he was and most of the country just had a nervous breakdown over the guy. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: spaceman_spiff ]</p>
<strong>
In the initial election, Chirac garnered 20% of the vote, followed by Le Pen with 17%. However, other candidates on the left collectively had 27% of the vote. Shades of Nader, anyone?
Obviously, the "lefties," as you describe them, were split among multiple left-leaning candidates, allowing Le Pen to enter the runoff. Then, when only Le Pen and Chirac were left, Le Pen gathered approximately the same percentage of the vote, meaning that everyone who voted for the left-leaning candidates threw their support behind Chirac.
How is this hypocritical? If it is, then what's the point of a runoff?
[ 05-05-2002: Message edited by: Poor taylor ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
May I ask why you repeat the exact same thing I have just said?
It is hypocritical because of the way the left has expressed itself on the matter of Chiracq, the person. The rest of the time they seem him as the voice of evil. They spit on the guy and his politics.
If there is a run off between two people you can not identify you don´t vote. Simple as that. How can you vote on someone that does not express your views on politics? The only way you can justify that is if you´re a hypocrite.
The only reason they all voted for Chiracq was so Le Pen wouldn´t win. One votes for what they believe in, not what they´re more against. That unpurifies the end result.
<strong>
May I ask why you repeat the exact same thing I have just said?
It is hypocritical because of the way the left has expressed itself on the matter of Chiracq, the person. The rest of the time they seem him as the voice of evil. They spit on the guy and his politics.
If there is a run off between two people you can not identify you don´t vote. Simple as that. How can you vote on someone that does not express your views on politics? The only way you can justify that is if you´re a hypocrite.
The only reason they all voted for Chiracq was so Le Pen wouldn´t win. One votes for what they believe in, not what they´re more against. That unpurifies the end result.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is not simple as that : many political leaders of the left ask to vote for Chirac, but it 's the french citizens who decided for who to vote : vote for a man who they know , who have defaults (and the lefties have yelled about this many times) and quality (aka respect of the republic and the democratia), or vote for a man who is a populist with a stupid economic program (the death of the French economy according to most economists of France and the world) and who have strange conceptions of democratia in the past (nothing to have to do with the Pim Fortuyn who was against Le Pen.
Some ultra leftie like the enraged Arlette Laguiller ask her elector to not vote : the result 70 % voted for chirac, 8 % voted for Le Pen and the rest was abstention. It's seems that elector do not obey to her.
So it's the french people who decided to elect Chirac, not the leftie leaders. The leftie leaders know in advance that whatever they will say that Chirac will win.( If Jospin will be against Le pen, i will vote for Jospin whatever the politic leaders can say.). , so they decide to make them heroes who let pass their own political opinions behind the sake of the nation, much better than say that there will be abstention (this latter attitude will lead irrevocabily to a strong legislative election defeat for them).
Yes it's funny to discover that Chirac according to the lefties, after beeing the devil was the last defense against fascism, and better after explaining that a new cohabitation will be a disaster they explains that a new cohabitation is recommended now.
<strong>
This is not simple as that : many political leaders of the left ask to vote for Chirac, but it 's the french citizens who decided for who to vote : vote for a man who they know , who have defaults (and the lefties have yelled about this many times) and quality (aka respect of the republic and the democratia), or vote for a man who is a populist with a stupid economic program (the death of the French economy according to most economists of France and the world) and who have strange conceptions of democratia in the past (nothing to have to do with the Pim Fortuyn who was against Le Pen.
Some ultra leftie like the enraged Arlette Laguiller ask her elector to not vote : the result 70 % voted for chirac, 8 % voted for Le Pen and the rest was abstention. It's seems that elector do not obey to her.
So it's the french people who decided to elect Chirac, not the leftie leaders. The leftie leaders know in advance that whatever they will say that Chirac will win.( If Jospin will be against Le pen, i will vote for Jospin whatever the politic leaders can say.). , so they decide to make them heroes who let pass their own political opinions behind the sake of the nation, much better than say that there will be abstention (this latter attitude will lead irrevocabily to a strong legislative election defeat for them).
Yes it's funny to discover that Chirac according to the lefties, after beeing the devil was the last defense against fascism, and better after explaining that a new cohabitation will be a disaster they explains that a new cohabitation is recommended now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The hypocrisy is not just in the voting for someone denounced as evil by the same people who denounced him. It´s as much in the fact that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, these same people will start denouncing him again now.
They could have had trust in the democracy of the country and the fact that it was clear from the start that Le Pen was not going to beat Chiracq.
Voting to derail someone else´s chances is just as undemocratic as Le Pen and his ideas are.
<strong>
Voting to derail someone else´s chances is just as undemocratic as Le Pen and his ideas are.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Holy **** : voting Le Pen equal the end of France as i use to know. Politic is not sport .
People has to make choice, continue the republic or go in something else. 80 % of the french people want to continue the republic that's all. I have voted Chirac, first and second turn of the election. but if the second turn it was between Jospin and Le pen i will have voted Jospin dispite the fact i do not share his politic concerning economy. But i share his conception of liberty and democratia. Sorry but i do not share the populist ( by populist i mean a man ready to say any craps that will bring him votes) conception of democratia and liberty. As a doctor his conception of the exercice of Medecine is in full contradiction with our deontologic code aka bring the same care and attention to every patient.
For left people voting chirac was a republican vote, for me it was my natural choice. There is nothing hypocritical to prefer democratia and republic rather than populist neo fascist vote.