So much for the Dutch radical right...
Some of you may know that there are election in Holland in a week or so. A populist candidate with quite right leanings was just assassinated. Pim Fortuyn was shot several times in the head while leaving a radio program just moments ago.
It is absolutely unbelievable what some people will do.
It is absolutely unbelievable what some people will do.
Comments
<strong>They are now reporting that Mr. Fortuyn is dead.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is anyone taking responsibility?
Thoth
what?? I read this over and over again, and this must be the most stupid reply I've ever seen... ASSHOLE!!!
It only happened just a few hours ago, and I'm sure americans wouldn't really appriciate jokes just a few hours after your recent tragedy, 9/11. You see your tragedy as an attack on democracy, we see this the same, one week before the elections.
This man represented a new party, and was most likely to become the biggest party.
(for the record; he wouldn't have had my vote)
Finally somebody that spoke out for the people of the Netherlands in stead of hiding photographs from the Dutch public.
The democracy died today and "Paars" has as much blood on their hands as the guy that did it.
As for the so called stupid remark by Groverat, The Netherlands is a country were extreme left has always been tolerated and extreme right has become a taboo. Extreme left has been as violent as extreme right in the past but never got outcasted in the same way.
This is what it has lead to. I hope "Paars", de lefty media in Holland lead by Mr. Van Dam and the so called tolerant establishment is proud of itself.
Extreme is always wrong but I think the Dutch government can look at it´s own failure and take consequences. It´s the so called successful "Paars" cabinets that have created this environment of intolerance in an, otherwise, very tolerant country.
May Pim rest in peace and the guy that did this burn in hell. I´d almost support the dead penalty for undemocratic, terrorist bastards like this.
<strong>and I even think it's a very very funny post you made there, I can't imagine your serious...</strong><hr></blockquote>
To quote Boudewijn de Groot, well almost quote..
"Wel terusten mijnheer de Minister President" and weltrusten to you to. I hope you wake up tomorrow morning and realise in what kind of democracy you have ended up.
One where it´s only accepted to say what´s popular.
Pim Fortuyn: "I think we should legalise all illegal immigrants that are currently in this country. That way we can try to get them out of the criminal circuit and black labour. We should then review our immigration politics because Holland is the 6th largest country in the EU when it comes down to population. However, it is the 13th largest in size. We have to cut down on that."
Yes, very much a same kind of man with the same kind of ideas. I´m being sarcastic.
But there is more.
The leader of one of the biggest parties in The Netherlands, the VVD, said only five or six years ago: "I think we should stimulate intergration of immigrants in this country. We should stimulate people to mix and not stick to their own. That way, and that way only, can we become a truly multi cultural environment."
He gained a lot of votes for the next poll by saying that. Then the parties on the left, and the extreme left, fell all over him and helped by the media called him a racist. I´m sorry but those are not the words of a racist. Nor are the words of Mr. Fortuyn. A racist is too much of a bigot to want to have anything to do with anyone or anything foreign.
Now Mr. Fortuyn is dead. Because the media made him look like a threat to the country. Made him look like a wanabee dictator. Let´s not forget that he had been attacked before. That´s how tolerant a country The Netherlands is.
It is so in love with its self assumed tollerance that anyone who dares to go against any of those ideas of tollerance will be branded a racist or a bigot. To the point where they can be murdered.
An environment the Dutch government and media have created over the last 10 - 15 years.
I´ve just read that the guy who killed him was probably an environmental activist. Aren´t humans part of mother earth´s nature? Shouldn´t this guy respect human life? It once again goes to show how hypocrite the left and extreme left is.
Is there a precedent on the extreme right by the way? Has any left politician ever been killed by a neo nazi?
The reaction in Holland was "Thank God it wasn´t a foreigner that did it"
Of course it wasn´t a foreigner! It´s not foreigners that cause the feelings against immigrants. It´s the government and the ridiculous tollerance of the extreme left. The problem The Netherlands has is not it´s foreign population, it makes the country more attractive if nothing else. It´s the so called tollerance that only goes for the sheep that follow.
The extreme left - tollerance through intollerance.
A few reactions to the murder from the so called victims of this "racist"
Imam Abdullah Hasselhoef - One of the leaders of Islam in The Netherlands:
"Fortuyn hurt a lot of Muslims with his ideas about the Islam. However, I´m more shocked about the visciousness with which the media and politicians tried to make him look like a monster or a racist"
The government of the Dutch Antillies:
"In a democratic system like our Kingdom there can´t be any room for such a disgusting and dispicable act"
These are the words of the people that should have feared this "racist".
The only precedent I can find for this in The Netherlands is the murder of William of Orange in 1584.
[ 05-07-2002: Message edited by: macvasco ]</p>
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I'm from the Netherlands and I would like to make some things a bit more clearly. Some of the people here really don't quite know where they're talking about or are not informed enough.
The media has realy sketched him as a dangerous, intolerant and ultra-right person in countrys as England and the US. They compare him to Le Pen etc. This is not fair.
He was a very intelligent and well educated person, had some very good ideas about political problems and has allready solved some, like the so called 'OV-card' , a yearly card for students to make free use of the public transport, which is a huge succes.
I saw lots of interviews on TV with him in the Netherlands and he's extremely honest in everything he says and talks in a understandable language which is finally recognizable for the Dutch citizens. Which you cannot say about lots of other politicians, who don't actually say what they mean. This man represented the thoughts of lots of Dutch people and was finally able to them those thoughts public discussible.. until yesterday 6 may. One day after our national freedom day. 6 May. A dark day for democracy in the Netherlands and Europe.
He was dangerous for the other political partys. Why? He would have made an glorious victory on May 15, our electionday. It would have caused a big revolution in Dutch politics... but (unfortunately) that is out of the question now
<strong>I posted this over at MacNN, but will post it here also:
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I'm from the Netherlands and I would like to make some things a bit more clearly. Some of the people here really don't quite know where they're talking about or are not informed enough.
The media has realy sketched him as a dangerous, intolerant and ultra-right person in countrys as England and the US. They compare him to Le Pen etc. This is not fair.
He was a very intelligent and well educated person, had some very good ideas about political problems and has allready solved some, like the so called 'OV-card' , a yearly card for students to make free use of the public transport, which is a huge succes.
I saw lots of interviews on TV with him in the Netherlands and he's extremely honest in everything he says and talks in a understandable language which is finally recognizable for the Dutch citizens. Which you cannot say about lots of other politicians, who don't actually say what they mean. This man represented the thoughts of lots of Dutch people and was finally able to them those thoughts public discussible.. until yesterday 6 may. One day after our national freedom day. 6 May. A dark day for democracy in the Netherlands and Europe.
He was dangerous for the other political partys. Why? He would have made an glorious victory on May 15, our electionday. It would have caused a big revolution in Dutch politics... but (unfortunately) that is out of the question now</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well said mate.
A funny thing about the OV card is that one of the biggest criticism the other parties have to his ideas is that he doesn´t want to increase the spending on education. Wasn´t it Minister Ritzen who started cutting on grants and this card in the first place? It´s easy to increase the spending if first you cut it to an unreasonable level. Anyway, his point, or better yet his parties point, was that in the welfare sector as well as education we should relocate the money more efficiently and then see who needs what.
His party will win and the change will come. It´s his party you should vote for. Although I admit it´s lost it´s face for now. But not voting for him now will make his murderer succesful. Let´s just keep him the dispicable excuse for a human being that he is. Let´s not make him a winner.
He said in this interview that all major religions in the world except Islam had gone through an 'educational phase' where the Islamic countries were still living in the "middle centuries". Nowhere did he the condemn Muslims as such. This is in strong contrast to the "National [social]istic" party here in Denmark who's members hardly open their mouth not to condemn ethnic minority groups living in this country
So these sentences is WRONG and only add to this black and white view on the word. By linking environmentalist (what is it based on? a few brochures in his flat or is he known as an active "friends of the earth" activist or...?) = left winged = "THE" left. We on´t know shit about this guy yet but already you are blaming the left for this? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
An just to clarify: I am not part of the left (at least not how it is understood here in Europe as meaning socialist or worse)
[quote]
I´ve just read that the guy who killed him was probably an environmental activist. Aren´t humans part of mother earth´s nature? Shouldn´t this guy respect human life? It once again goes to show how hypocrite the left and extreme left is. <hr></blockquote>
<strong>Ok ok I just calmed down, and I'm really not going to respond to that rubbish.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you can respond to baseless quips on "right wing" behavior but not baseless quips on left wing behavior?
This is the kind of one-way open mindedness that allows me to have very little respect for the left.
Not that we are perfect either, but we have never had all those things going at the same time.
<strong>Well, I agree with many of the sentiments of what you two have said regarding Mr. Fortuyn. However, I think it would have been a very bad thing for Holland had he come to power. Mr. Fortuyn may indeed speak a language that many Dutch people understand, but that language is not English. Although he did speak very poor English, I mean this to be more of a metaphor for his foreign policy. Essentially, he had none. He portfolio of policies was incomplete and internally inconsistent. He was big on domestic issues, but pretty much vacuous otherwise. For these reasons, had he come to power in nine days, I expect his reign would have been a short one. I personally don't believe he would have won too many seats anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that´s the point mate. The Dutch people want to a prime minister who does what is right for the country for a change. In stead of what is right and ok with everybody else.
For example: RDM, I think they were called, was a ship wharf in Rotterdam. They used to build ships. About 5 or 6 years ago they got an order from Taiwan for 8 submarines. China then told the Dutch government that, since they see Taiwan as a revolting provence, the diplomatic relationship between China and Holland would suffer if the deal went through. In the end the Dutch government made RDM refuse the order. RDM is now bankrupt and over 150 people lost their jobs.
They should have told China to f off and mind their own business. What about the relationship Holland has with Taiwan?
The people in Holland are sick of the spineless, backhanded government that is "paars". That´s where this guy got his votes from.
Someone on this board said, in another thread, the responsibility of the government of the United States is, first and foremost, to protect the United States´ interest. That´s spot on. That´s what the Dutch would finally like to see from their government.
As for my blaming the extreme left. It is a fact that this guy was a leftie. I´m not making it up nor is it speculation. He is. Well he thinks he is. In reality he´s a facist who doesn´t think too highly about freedom of speech.