For instance you couldn't pay me to use the crappy email app on the iPad and since I always have my iPhone anyway, so the email app on the iPad is "crapware" to me.
That makes no sense to me at all - how is the email app on the iPad crap but the email app on the iPhone is not? or is just that you have two devices and choose only to use one of them for email?
email on the iPhone is very good - way better than on the Treo I had before my first iPhone - but the exact same app with a couple subtle differences in the interface depending on orientation of the iPad makes email even better in my opinion. Sure not as convenient when walking around for instance and the iPad doesn't fit in your pocket - but far superior than carrying around a full notebook or going down to my office every 10 minutes to check email.
And as much as I like the iPhone keyboard - for a longer email and iPad with a bluetooth keyboard is much easier.
Verizon needs Apple far more that other way around.
Likely there was a bit of dealing but no way that Apple paid Verizon so Apple to keep Verizon software off the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted
There are perhaps dozens of possibilities but I suspect that in the end Verizon "blinked" cause they wanted the iPhone.
Source? Link?
No saying I don't believe you. I'd love to know how this deal actually went down.
I need to see some solid sources behind this reasoning though. I've read conflicting reports at the opposite ends of the scale Verizon begged Apple for the iPhone / Apple came crawling to Verizon, Verizon is in the drivers seat / Verizon look like they are in control because Apple are letting them.
In any case it was a pretty huge concession from Verizon's part to not include crap-ware on the phone. If they gave this up without anything in return from Apple it basically means they came crawling to Apple with their tails between their legs... I'm just not sure that was the case.
I seriously wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Verizon received cheaper pricing than ATT does from Apple as a concession for no crap-ware.
I suppose we won't know until some insider leaks info.
Wow. That is not crapware... its useful basic software that does the job. The disk footprint is also so low on these items as to not impact anything you might do. You don't know what the definition of crapware is, if you honestly think that is it.
^^ This statement is so retarded. I guess segments of operating system files are "crapware"? Yep... 'crapware' isn't created by the people you buy the software from.
You are comparing two very very different things as being equal simply because they share 1 common trait (your inability to remove them).
Is this comparison different from saying "poop" and "chocolate bars" are the same thing because they are both brown?
I guess if you think this way, enjoy your mouthful.......
If you take that definition, all the rubbish that comes with a Windows PC cannot be crapware, because the original manufacturer, be it HP or whoever, shipped it that way.
As it happens, the last Dell I bought didn't have any of this, it was a vanilla install of Windows +Dell drivers. At least I don't recall it being so.
"HP or whoever" is NOT the OEM of the Operating System.
Here is a simply mathematical formula for "crapware":
( Software Installed on Hardware Purchased from Manufacturer ) - ( Software Installed via "Clean Install" of OS Software from OS Manufacturer ) = crapware
For example, "DigitalColor Meter.app" or "Audio MIDI Setup.app" are NOT crapware since they come with the OS directly from Apple.
"HP Support" or whatever IS crapware since it does NOT come with the OS from Microsoft.
"To compare Verizon's crapware to Apple's crapware is absurd. Verizon's bundle has zero usefulness and is HUGELY annoying. Apple's you can easily ignore what you don't want to use and it doesn't make you wish you had a different phone."
This is faulty reasoning. "Usefulness" is subjective. To me, and obviously to many others, this is completely useless software, it's not a part of the main OS (not required), but can't be removed.
On my Verizon LG there's a ton of garbage that's worse than calculators, stupid apps that all dial up to Verizon's dead music and video services, social networks, etc. Here in NYC Verizon has good coverage so most of my peers have Verizon, but no one has ever opened the Media Center, VZ Navigator, Mobile IM, online picture galleries etc, except accidentally once a week. And you can't move them an inch off the page.
Quote:
Mazda 3s said:
"Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)
Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)
I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps."
And there ya go. Three apps that don't suck that you don't want to see, out of the way. I'd take 10 Apple apps I thought were useless that I could hide over Verizon's method.
All I can say is, personal setup at Vz stores is going to suck. "Let me get you started with a few free apps..." lol.
Also I wonder if it still takes 2 hours to buy a phone at Verizon like it used to?
Well, I can't speak for any Verizon Stores outside of NYC except for a handful, but, them being the only carrier I've ever used, I've always dreaded having to go and do anything there. I would rate the employee/customer experience as somewhere between the late, unlamented Circuit City and a friendly DMV. I can't imagine there being a worse place to have to get the correct answer to anything.
No saying I don't believe you. I'd love to know how this deal actually went down.
I need to see some solid sources behind this reasoning though. I've read conflicting reports at the opposite ends of the scale Verizon begged Apple for the iPhone / Apple came crawling to Verizon, Verizon is in the drivers seat / Verizon look like they are in control because Apple are letting them.
In any case it was a pretty huge concession from Verizon's part to not include crap-ware on the phone. If they gave this up without anything in return from Apple it basically means they came crawling to Apple with their tails between their legs... I'm just not sure that was the case.
I seriously wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Verizon received cheaper pricing than ATT does from Apple as a concession for no crap-ware.
I suppose we won't know until some insider leaks info.
I wish I could provide a source or link but I am just trying to guess at what the terms are for what is really a mutually beneficial arrangement.
We agree on two points:
It is huge that the VeriPhone has no Verizon branding or Verizon apps pre-installed
I think it is possible that Verizon negotiated a lower per-unit cost than ATT or, if it is true that a CDMA handset is more expensive, that they got Apple to absorb the additional cost
One possible (apparent) Apple concession is that Verizon will be allowed to run their own (presumably Apple-approved) marketing campaign. This could potentially allow Verizon to tout the VeriPhone while tweaking ATT's nose over network issues which has been one of their trump cards. It's possible that Apple is even providing co-op advertising dollars for these Verizon ads (except there could be no ATT bashing in co-op ads).
All in all, I am just interested in what the possible contract terms are in the absence of the semi-exclusive deal. I think Apple had a slight edge but I think Apple also wanted access to Verizon's network and customers which eliminates the most obvious attack vector for non-iPhone carriers.
Well, I can't speak for any Verizon Stores outside of NYC except for a handful, but, them being the only carrier I've ever used, I've always dreaded having to go and do anything there. I would rate the employee/customer experience as somewhere between the late, unlamented Circuit City and a friendly DMV. I can't imagine there being a worse place to have to get the correct answer to anything.
I wonder if we can trust Verizon salespeople to be square with their customers about the iPhone. Certainly I've heard some ridiculous nonsense at their stores, along the lines of Best Buy staff steering folks to PCs over Macs with insane bullshit.
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.
I wonder if we can trust Verizon salespeople to be square with their customers about the iPhone. Certainly I've heard some ridiculous nonsense at their stores, along the lines of Best Buy staff steering folks to PCs over Macs with insane bullshit.
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.
I think Verizon is too heavily invested with the iPhone for this to happen. I am sure that is why there is mandatory (think that's what I read) employee training prior to the iPhone rollout.
..........and the secret short cut button that launches you straight onto the internet, that you cannot change, so they can hit you with the $5 charge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd
except accidentally once a week. And you can't move them an inch off the page.
I doubt it as iPhone users have been shown to be extremely lucrative for AT&T. Higher ARI and less churn. There is no reason for Verizon disrupt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.
Comments
For instance you couldn't pay me to use the crappy email app on the iPad and since I always have my iPhone anyway, so the email app on the iPad is "crapware" to me.
That makes no sense to me at all - how is the email app on the iPad crap but the email app on the iPhone is not? or is just that you have two devices and choose only to use one of them for email?
email on the iPhone is very good - way better than on the Treo I had before my first iPhone - but the exact same app with a couple subtle differences in the interface depending on orientation of the iPad makes email even better in my opinion. Sure not as convenient when walking around for instance and the iPad doesn't fit in your pocket - but far superior than carrying around a full notebook or going down to my office every 10 minutes to check email.
And as much as I like the iPhone keyboard - for a longer email and iPad with a bluetooth keyboard is much easier.
Verizon needs Apple far more that other way around.
Likely there was a bit of dealing but no way that Apple paid Verizon so Apple to keep Verizon software off the iPhone.
There are perhaps dozens of possibilities but I suspect that in the end Verizon "blinked" cause they wanted the iPhone.
Source? Link?
No saying I don't believe you. I'd love to know how this deal actually went down.
I need to see some solid sources behind this reasoning though. I've read conflicting reports at the opposite ends of the scale Verizon begged Apple for the iPhone / Apple came crawling to Verizon, Verizon is in the drivers seat / Verizon look like they are in control because Apple are letting them.
In any case it was a pretty huge concession from Verizon's part to not include crap-ware on the phone. If they gave this up without anything in return from Apple it basically means they came crawling to Apple with their tails between their legs... I'm just not sure that was the case.
I seriously wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Verizon received cheaper pricing than ATT does from Apple as a concession for no crap-ware.
I suppose we won't know until some insider leaks info.
Verizon could have offered free data plans to Apple, and I still don't think Apple would have agreed to just let Verizon abuse the user experience.
Isn't it relieving to actually have a company so adament about providing a positive user experience?
Wow. That is not crapware... its useful basic software that does the job. The disk footprint is also so low on these items as to not impact anything you might do. You don't know what the definition of crapware is, if you honestly think that is it.
It's crapware if you can't remove it.
It's crapware if you can't remove it.
^^ This statement is so retarded. I guess segments of operating system files are "crapware"? Yep... 'crapware' isn't created by the people you buy the software from.
You are comparing two very very different things as being equal simply because they share 1 common trait (your inability to remove them).
Is this comparison different from saying "poop" and "chocolate bars" are the same thing because they are both brown?
I guess if you think this way, enjoy your mouthful.......
It's crapware if you can't remove it.
It's crapware if it's there in the first place.
If you take that definition, all the rubbish that comes with a Windows PC cannot be crapware, because the original manufacturer, be it HP or whoever, shipped it that way.
As it happens, the last Dell I bought didn't have any of this, it was a vanilla install of Windows +Dell drivers. At least I don't recall it being so.
"HP or whoever" is NOT the OEM of the Operating System.
Here is a simply mathematical formula for "crapware":
( Software Installed on Hardware Purchased from Manufacturer ) - ( Software Installed via "Clean Install" of OS Software from OS Manufacturer ) = crapware
For example, "DigitalColor Meter.app" or "Audio MIDI Setup.app" are NOT crapware since they come with the OS directly from Apple.
"HP Support" or whatever IS crapware since it does NOT come with the OS from Microsoft.
Originally Posted by jlandd
"To compare Verizon's crapware to Apple's crapware is absurd. Verizon's bundle has zero usefulness and is HUGELY annoying. Apple's you can easily ignore what you don't want to use and it doesn't make you wish you had a different phone."
This is faulty reasoning. "Usefulness" is subjective. To me, and obviously to many others, this is completely useless software, it's not a part of the main OS (not required), but can't be removed.
On my Verizon LG there's a ton of garbage that's worse than calculators, stupid apps that all dial up to Verizon's dead music and video services, social networks, etc. Here in NYC Verizon has good coverage so most of my peers have Verizon, but no one has ever opened the Media Center, VZ Navigator, Mobile IM, online picture galleries etc, except accidentally once a week. And you can't move them an inch off the page.
Mazda 3s said:
"Too bad Apple also includes plenty of "crapware" (in this case, apps with limited functionality that you can't remove if you don't want/need them)
Stocks (I use eTrade Mobile Pro)
Compass (who gives a *&^%)
Weather (I use The Weather Channel)
I've got them all rounded up in a folder on my second page of apps."
And there ya go. Three apps that don't suck that you don't want to see, out of the way. I'd take 10 Apple apps I thought were useless that I could hide over Verizon's method.
Also I wonder if it still takes 2 hours to buy a phone at Verizon like it used to?
All I can say is, personal setup at Vz stores is going to suck. "Let me get you started with a few free apps..." lol.
Also I wonder if it still takes 2 hours to buy a phone at Verizon like it used to?
Well, I can't speak for any Verizon Stores outside of NYC except for a handful, but, them being the only carrier I've ever used, I've always dreaded having to go and do anything there. I would rate the employee/customer experience as somewhere between the late, unlamented Circuit City and a friendly DMV. I can't imagine there being a worse place to have to get the correct answer to anything.
Source? Link?
No saying I don't believe you. I'd love to know how this deal actually went down.
I need to see some solid sources behind this reasoning though. I've read conflicting reports at the opposite ends of the scale Verizon begged Apple for the iPhone / Apple came crawling to Verizon, Verizon is in the drivers seat / Verizon look like they are in control because Apple are letting them.
In any case it was a pretty huge concession from Verizon's part to not include crap-ware on the phone. If they gave this up without anything in return from Apple it basically means they came crawling to Apple with their tails between their legs... I'm just not sure that was the case.
I seriously wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Verizon received cheaper pricing than ATT does from Apple as a concession for no crap-ware.
I suppose we won't know until some insider leaks info.
I wish I could provide a source or link but I am just trying to guess at what the terms are for what is really a mutually beneficial arrangement.
We agree on two points:
- It is huge that the VeriPhone has no Verizon branding or Verizon apps pre-installed
- I think it is possible that Verizon negotiated a lower per-unit cost than ATT or, if it is true that a CDMA handset is more expensive, that they got Apple to absorb the additional cost
One possible (apparent) Apple concession is that Verizon will be allowed to run their own (presumably Apple-approved) marketing campaign. This could potentially allow Verizon to tout the VeriPhone while tweaking ATT's nose over network issues which has been one of their trump cards. It's possible that Apple is even providing co-op advertising dollars for these Verizon ads (except there could be no ATT bashing in co-op ads).All in all, I am just interested in what the possible contract terms are in the absence of the semi-exclusive deal. I think Apple had a slight edge but I think Apple also wanted access to Verizon's network and customers which eliminates the most obvious attack vector for non-iPhone carriers.
In the end, it is really a win for consumers.
Well, I can't speak for any Verizon Stores outside of NYC except for a handful, but, them being the only carrier I've ever used, I've always dreaded having to go and do anything there. I would rate the employee/customer experience as somewhere between the late, unlamented Circuit City and a friendly DMV. I can't imagine there being a worse place to have to get the correct answer to anything.
I wonder if we can trust Verizon salespeople to be square with their customers about the iPhone. Certainly I've heard some ridiculous nonsense at their stores, along the lines of Best Buy staff steering folks to PCs over Macs with insane bullshit.
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.
I wonder if we can trust Verizon salespeople to be square with their customers about the iPhone. Certainly I've heard some ridiculous nonsense at their stores, along the lines of Best Buy staff steering folks to PCs over Macs with insane bullshit.
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.
I think Verizon is too heavily invested with the iPhone for this to happen. I am sure that is why there is mandatory (think that's what I read) employee training prior to the iPhone rollout.
except accidentally once a week. And you can't move them an inch off the page.
Of course, that was before they picked up the iPhone, but I hope there aren't any financial incentives in place that make an Android sale more personally lucrative for the staff than an iPhone sale. The sleazy car salesman vibe at Verizon stores is very high. I guess we can trust that, having gotten the right to sell the thing, Verizon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by actively killing sales, but, really, those guys are just creepy.