Gartner: Apple takes 9.7% share in Q4, grows Mac sales by 23%

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 68
    How does it even matter that analysts are skewing numbers or deliberately giving credence to one device and not another? Apple is selling its products regardless of what analysts say or don't say. In reality, the iPad is likely cutting into PC sales. Who are these analysts trying to fool? Themselves? The fact is that buying consumers are the ones that have the final say. They're not looking at any charts to decide what product to buy. If a company lies and says they sold twice as many products as another company, they'll know that it didn't happen that way and won't have the actual money to back up those claims even if they fudge their accounts. In the long run, their lies and deceptions will be discovered when they start shutting down production and laying off employees. Analysts not telling their clients the true picture is really cheating them.



    So they don't see the iPad as a true personal computer because of this or that. The iPad costs from $499 up to $829 which certainly overlaps a lot of Windows PCs prices. When a consumer goes out and buys an iPad instead of a Windows PC in that price range, the money still counts no matter what they call it or what neat little category an analyst puts it in. Apple makes money. Revenue is revenue no matter what category the product falls into. The consumer is happy. Apple shareholders are happy. Screw the analysts. Their obfuscations count for nothing.
  • Reply 22 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That sounds reasonable and follows what I think will happen.









    It’s not a PC to Gartner and IDC because they don’t define it as such. It’ that simple It doesn’t mean that it’s not a “PC” by other criteria, it simply means that how the qualify it. Did we ever categorize PDAs as “PCs” even though they could do a lot more than the first “PCs”? I don’t think so. The iPhone and iPod Touch would probably pass all the same criteria most here would have for the iPad, but I think most here would be less inclined to say that the iPhone or Touch is an “PC”.



    Let’s use LTE, Verizon and the ITU as an example. Verizon’s 2nd generation network is CDMA and their 3rd generation network is CDMA2000/EV-DO, but I hear all the time that Verizon shouldn’t allowed to refer to their 4th generation network overhaul as ‘4G' even though they don’t say it’s 4G as defined by the ITU. Note that ITU just last month relaxed some of their requirement as to what ‘4G’ so these delimiters can move.



    I see your point and I agree with it, I just don’t agree with a single stringent definition that all must abide by.



    I imagine that the labeling will change when they don't need to be tethered for backups and OS updates and upgrades. Until then, they are isolated when no "computer" is available. I would love to be able to use a portable HDD or memory card to back up my stuff on my iPad. And, i'd love it if we could update and upgrade the OS directly through the wireless connection, or connect to the network.



    If we could do everything with our iPads that we can do with our Macbooks and MacBook pro's, except use iOS instead, then they will call them computers. I don't mind them not being called that yet. Maybe someday.
  • Reply 23 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by REC View Post


    Wikipedia defines the iPad as a PC.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer



    There are clear differences between an iPad and the established definition of a PC, and the market research companies know this. The current iteration of a Wikipedia article isn't going to change that.
  • Reply 24 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by poke View Post


    You could have said the same thing about laptops when they were introduced. The only real factors I can think of that distinguish iPads from PCs are that file management is inconvenient on the iPad and you still need to connect it to a PC for updates. Otherwise it's just an arbitrary distinction. If iPad sales are impacting PC sales then they're probably fulfilling the same role.



    To me the major distinguishing factor is the operating system. Notebooks and even netbooks run the same OS and applications as desktop computers. Tablets run smart phone operating systems that offer significantly fewer features. I think that justifies their exclusion from stats regarding sales of computers.



    On the other hand nothing justifies Gartner's refusal to tell the truth about iPads. Many people are finding that their mobile needs are met by a smart phone or tablet so they have no need for a netbook.



    So instead of trying to massage the numbers to make the PC manufacturers look good they need to state the truth: some of the market for traditional computers is gone, never to return.
  • Reply 25 of 68
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I imagine that the labeling will change when they don't need to be tethered for backups and OS updates and upgrades. Until then, they are isolated when no "computer" is available. I would love to be able to use a portable HDD or memory card to back up my stuff on my iPad. And, i'd love it if we could update and upgrade the OS directly through the wireless connection, or connect to the network.



    If we could do everything with our iPads that we can do with our Macbooks and MacBook pro's, except use iOS instead, then they will call them computers. I don't mind them not being called that yet. Maybe someday.

    ? Initial usage without first connecting to iTunes.

    ? HDD support (which I want anyway for the Apple Home Server)

    ? External display support.

    ? Small, OTA updates .

    I think all of these will eventually come, but I like the careful stepping Apple is doing. I like the focus on specific features before progressing.



    PS: At CES there was one pretty cool phone that could also connect up to be ?PC? replacement when placed in its dock. That concept might always reside in Sci-Fi. My reasoning is the HW to do that has been fast enough for years, and yet we don?t do that because the traditional setups keep dropping in relative price while offering a lot more in terms of features and performance so were reaching for something that?s always ahead of us.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post


    Tablets run smart phone operating systems that offer significantly fewer features.



    I agree with your overall statement, but not at the remark that the iPad is just a smartphone OS. Remember that Apple made Mac OS X into iOS by first working on a tablet, not a smartphone, and that iOS for iPad a display I/O that was designed specifically for it. It?s no more a smartphone OS as iOS for iPhone is anymore a tablet OS.
  • Reply 26 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post
    ? Initial usage without first connecting to iTunes.

    ? HDD support (which I want anyway for the Apple Home Server)

    ? External display support.

    ? Small, OTA updates .

    I think all of these will eventually come, but I like the careful stepping Apple is doing. I like the focus on specific features before progressing.



    PS: At CES there was one pretty cool phone that could also connect up to be ?PC? replacement when placed in its dock. That concept might always reside in Sci-Fi. My reasoning is the HW to do that has been fast enough for years, and yet we don?t do that because the traditional setups keep dropping in relative price while offering a lot more in terms of features and performance so were reaching for something that?s always ahead of us.



    If you let them set it up for you, it could be said that you don't need to use itunes for inital setup. But that would be cheating.



    External display support is sorta half way here.



    I'd like all updates/upgrades to be available over the air, or through the mythological network connector.



    There was a company at CES that is offering a small external HDD, or SSD that allows files to be moved to and from it from the iPad. I didn't bookmark it, though I meant to. I don't know how it works, or how well. But if it does work, then it's a major product, and I hope it gets some bigger publicity. If I can find the link, I'll put it here.
  • Reply 27 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    I found it! This looks interesting. The price is right.



    http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/11/01...b.per.sd.card/
  • Reply 28 of 68
    tnsftnsf Posts: 203member
    So here is an interesting thought... has Apple reached the tipping point yet? Or is that yet to come?



    Is there a point in the near future, say 10-15% share, where Apple's growth is going to explode and significantly alter the balance of power in the PC market?



    If I were a PC manufacturer I would be very freaked out by this prospect.
  • Reply 29 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TNSF View Post


    So here is an interesting thought... has Apple reached the tipping point yet? Or is that yet to come?



    Is there a point in the near future, say 10-15% share, where Apple's growth is going to explode and significantly alter the balance of power in the PC market?



    If I were a PC manufacturer I would be very freaked out by this prospect.



    10% USA is a psychological barrier, but I don't see it affecting sales. Frankly, I thought we were there already. These numbers seem too low.



    But this all depends on whether Apple can maintain the same 25 - 35% increase in Mac sales for the next several years. If they get to 15%, and sales are 30% when the industry is at 10% would mean that marketshare will pop to 17%. The next year it could go to a bit over 19%, and so on. But that depends on Apple maintaining that growth and the rest of the industry maintaining theirs.
  • Reply 30 of 68
    kenckenc Posts: 195member
    So, what exactly are these reports? They are for industry insiders. What do those insiders want to learn from these reports? They want to know what their customers are buying, and if people are buying an iPad instead of a netbook, then that is something they want to track and understand. People weren't buying PDAs as laptop replacements, but a segment of the population is surely buying iPads instead of a 2nd or 3rd computer. Excluding the impact of iPads makes the report less meaningful.



    Just looking at the data they supply and knowing nothing about tablets and the iPad, you'd totally misunderstand what is happening in the computing marketplace, and THAT's why tablets and iPads need to be included. Reports are meant to be informative, not obfuscating.
  • Reply 31 of 68
    tnsftnsf Posts: 203member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    10% USA is a psychological barrier, but I don't see it affecting sales. Frankly, I thought we were there already. These numbers seem too low.



    Apple's share of the consumer/retail market in the US is now over 20%, which is why it might seem like these overall numbers are low. They're diluted by enterprise sales, where Apple trails.



    Quote:

    But this all depends on whether Apple can maintain the same 25 - 35% increase in Mac sales for the next several years. If they get to 15%, and sales are 30% when the industry is at 10% would mean that marketshare will pop to 17%. The next year it could go to a bit over 19%, and so on. But that depends on Apple maintaining that growth and the rest of the industry maintaining theirs.



    Apple has had impressive growth, but I think they could grow even faster in the future. The biggest risk I see is the PC market in general. If the market is cannibalized by mobile sales (tablets and phones) then I can see flat or slowing growth. However, I don't see any other major risk factors. Windows 7 clearly isn't slowing Apple's growth and there isn't anything new on the horizon from PC manufacturers.
  • Reply 32 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It?s not a PC to Gartner and IDC because they don?t define it as such. It? that simple It doesn?t mean that it?s not a ?PC? by other criteria, it simply means that how the qualify it...



    I seem to recall Steve Jobs called the iPad "post PC" or something like that when he introduced it. It's not the same as a PC, but that's what makes it great.
  • Reply 33 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TNSF View Post


    Apple's share of the consumer/retail market in the US is now over 20%, which is why it might seem like these overall numbers are low. They're diluted by enterprise sales, where Apple trails.



    I'm talking about overall sales. By my math, it should be close to 11%
  • Reply 34 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TNSF View Post


    So here is an interesting thought... has Apple reached the tipping point yet? Or is that yet to come?



    Is there a point in the near future, say 10-15% share, where Apple's growth is going to explode and significantly alter the balance of power in the PC market?



    If I were a PC manufacturer I would be very freaked out by this prospect.



    Apple has already significantly altered the balance of profitability in the PC market. They are walking away with the lion's share of the industry's profits.



    The PC manufacturers need to worry more about other devices encroaching on traditional PC sales. AMD's CEO just resigned because he was unable to respond to the threat of mobile devices.



    CES was full of tablets, hundreds, all wannabee iPad killers. How many will make it to market? How many will become credible competitors to the iPad?



    I think this is the year when we will really see how much the iPad is a game changer. It has irrevocably altered the way I see all of my computing devices. It won't reply a primary PC, but it can easily replace a 2nd, 3rd or 4th computer in a household. I use my Mac far less today than a few months ago.
  • Reply 35 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I found it! This looks interesting. The price is right.



    http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/11/01...b.per.sd.card/



    First: Thanks for the link melgross! This device looks perfect for a number of my clients.



    We're rolling out our sales people with the iPhone first, and when the iPad2 comes out. A few people already have the iPad, and this looks like the "missing link" for us all, such as when they stop by my office and I want to drop presentation material(s) and designs directly, rather than through email or Dropbox.



    BTW: I said it before in a different thread recently, but again, I think these analysts and their numbers are seriously skewed and can NOT be taken seriously.



    First and foremost, I want "consumer vs. enterprise" break downs.



    Second: they're going to have to except the fact that the iPad is going to be the leader and standard-bearer in the "tablet" category, and have a huge lead over any individual producer of Android, WebOS, or even Win7 devices. Regardless, this category also needs to be broken down "consumer vs. enterprise".



    It appears they absolutely hate that fact, just as much as they hate to break down the numbers based on individual smart-phones vs. iPhone. Instead, lumping ALL Android devices together against 1 phone.



    And I can tell you this fact from where I'm standing: the iPhone, and the iPad1 and future iPad2, has cost Acer and Toshiba almost 100 laptop sales in my circles alone (Q4-2010 going forward).



    I just made a presentation to my largest client this last weekend that I alluded to in another longish post... and they are freaking wild with excitement and can't wait to get going with the iPad and our new CRM and Briefing Analysis apps, among others. iPhone users are rolling as we speak... and I have the rest on a short leash waiting patiently for iPad2.



    Any analyst that doesn't pin the iOS and/or Android, WebOS, Win7, etc tablet explosion against future PC desktop/laptop sales, is delusional diplomatically speaking... and a plain idiotic BSer and in plain English... or Emoticon.
  • Reply 36 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TNSF View Post


    Apple's share of the consumer/retail market in the US is now over 20%, which is why it might seem like these overall numbers are low. They're diluted by enterprise sales, where Apple trails.







    Apple has had impressive growth, but I think they could grow even faster in the future. The biggest risk I see is the PC market in general. If the market is cannibalized by mobile sales (tablets and phones) then I can see flat or slowing growth. However, I don't see any other major risk factors. Windows 7 clearly isn't slowing Apple's growth and there isn't anything new on the horizon from PC manufacturers.



    @TNSF - where did you find those numbers? I've Googled, but can't find anything really relevant, Also, I would like to see numbers broken down by world regions, i.e. NA, Euro-zone, SA, etc. Have a good link for me?
  • Reply 37 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    First: Thanks for the link melgross! This device looks perfect for a number of my clients.



    We're rolling out our sales people with the iPhone first, and when the iPad2 comes out. A few people already have the iPad, and this looks like the "missing link" for us all, such as when they stop by my office and I want to drop presentation material(s) and designs directly, rather than through email or Dropbox.



    BTW: I said it before in a different thread recently, but again, I think these analysts and their numbers are seriously skewed and can NOT be taken seriously.



    First and foremost, I want "consumer vs. enterprise" break downs.



    Second: they're going to have to except the fact that the iPad is going to be the leader and standard-bearer in the "tablet" category, and have a huge lead over any individual producer of Android, WebOS, or even Win7 devices. Regardless, this category also needs to be broken down "consumer vs. enterprise".



    It appears they absolutely hate that fact, just as much as they hate to break down the numbers based on individual smart-phones vs. iPhone. Instead, lumping ALL Android devices together against 1 phone.



    And I can tell you this fact from where I'm standing: the iPhone, and the iPad1 and future iPad2, has cost Acer and Toshiba almost 100 laptop sales in my circles alone (Q4-2010 going forward).



    I just made a presentation to my largest client this last weekend that I alluded to in another longish post... and they are freaking wild with excitement and can't wait to get going with the iPad and our new CRM and Briefing Analysis apps, among others. iPhone users are rolling as we speak... and I have the rest on a short leash waiting patiently for iPad2.



    Any analyst that doesn't pin the iOS and/or Android, WebOS, Win7, etc tablet explosion against future PC desktop/laptop sales, is delusional diplomatically speaking... and a plain idiotic BSer and in plain English... or Emoticon.



    I just ordered one. Since it uses "G" rather than "N" for WiFi in this first model, I'll be using it with USB. But I've got several male female USB cables. So I'll take an 18" one and use that. I get a bit nervous having something large directly connected to the socket.



    The iPad is being used in business in large ways already, with several buying up to 12,000 to one time, and planning to double that number this year. It's amazing, really.



    Lots of links, but I'll give a few;



    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...yText=&isPrev=



    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...yText=&isPrev=

    http://www.electronista.com/articles...mping.in.2011/
  • Reply 38 of 68
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    @TNSF - where did you find those numbers? I've Googled, but can't find anything really relevant, Also, I would like to see numbers broken down by world regions, i.e. NA, Euro-zone, SA, etc. Have a good link for me?



    I'll give you one, though Apple has published a number of figures for worldwide sales.



    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/...ow-21-percent/
  • Reply 39 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I just ordered one. Since it uses "G" rather than "N" for WiFi in this first model, I'll be using it with USB. But I've got several male female USB cables. So I'll take an 18" one and use that. I get a bit nervous having something large directly connected to the socket.



    The iPad is being used in business in large ways already, with several buying up to 12,000 to one time, and planning to double that number this year. It's amazing, really.



    Lots of links, but I'll give a few;



    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...yText=&isPrev=



    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...yText=&isPrev=

    http://www.electronista.com/articles...mping.in.2011/



    Thanks for the links MG! The electronista I have as PDF here already. infoweek has been added to my ever growing list of "follow" pages.



    I also had a passing second thought re: hanging the brick off of the iPad directly. Thanks for a nice solution if it becomes a problem.



    Would also have preferred N instead of G; maybe in v2, but still, pretty neat device.



    Over the weekend I was trying to stay concentrated on my project, and still staying up to date on what was going on at CES. I must admit, the Moto Atrix "idea" was not all that bad, but we're still staying focused with iOS devices. Enterprise deployment is really sweet stuff!
  • Reply 40 of 68
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'll give you one, though Apple has published a number of figures for worldwide sales.



    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/...ow-21-percent/



    Thanks again for the link... but a wee bit outa date: April 1, 2008 8:46 AM



    That's been my problem finding recent data as well. Maybe just have to wait a week after the year-end numbers from Apple are officially released. Because iPad really did "change everything".
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