Before getting a Microcell, the phone often failed to complete calls, dropped nearly half of all calls and had troubles even keeping a signal at all on many days.
Has the microcell improved things for you? At the office it seems to work pretty well (but far from flawlessly), but at home it is the same old problems, only I get to have them inside the house rather than having to go out to the sidewalk to have my calls dropped.
So the Verizon iPhone has only affect 1% of AT&T?s total user base. I would bet that other phones on Verizon will be much more affected than that.
I thought that at first, but then I realized that the iPhone 16% rate needs to be added to the other 15%.
The survey was before the announcement. The 16% iPhone response was "I'd switch ONLY if Verizon offered the iPhone". So they are in addition tot he folks who will switch regardless of the iPhone.
Let's see how much this really relieves AT&T. I think their network will still be garbage in NYC, SF, and other cities that struggle. I believe it's the infineon chipset that Apple uses. Euro style, not American.
In fact, I reported ATT's attempt to improperly bill me and they then agreed to refund the illegal tax they had collected from me. The lawsuit in the article above shows that the practice affected far more people than me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
The free case program ended on the 30th of September, there goes that theory.
What, are you claiming that people then threw away their cases after 9/30 and the announcement by Apple to get a case and hold their phone differently was erased from everyone's memory by Steve's Reality Distortion Field?
If these people start switching to Verizon, perhaps AT&T's network will have less traffic and thus those of us that remain will have better service? And by better, I mean less bad.
I would agree with you a 100%.
Also, I think people swicthing to Verizon will find that the grass is not greener there. Verizon may (I doubt it) be able to handle the traffic but they have completely shitty customer service and resolving a problem is a horrible thing to accomplish.
Secondly, I am doubtful that Verizon has the extra capacity it claims to have to handle the iPhone. They are business and like any other business they will only spend money when they can make money. So I bet all those people moving to Verizon will be unhappy as hell.
The good part, if a large number of people move, as you said, AT&T's network could get better,
The Microcell does give me five bars now. It is a little weird in that it takes longer to place and receive calls due to the extra step in routing. I've had to reset the Microcell modem a couple of times. Also have had the iPhone not recognize it and had to power down and restart the iPhone several times. Otherwise, the call quality is much improved and I almost never drop calls when on it. Its range covers the entire house and maybe 15-feet outside the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
Has the microcell improved things for you? At the office it seems to work pretty well (but far from flawlessly), but at home it is the same old problems, only I get to have them inside the house rather than having to go out to the sidewalk to have my calls dropped.
Amen to most of your post, except for cost. AT&T and Verizon constitute a monopoly in my humble opinion and we won't see much, if any, reduction in costs.
In my case, I don't have a problem with cost. In fact, I find the AT&T charges to be pretty reasonable. We have a family plan with 3 iPhones (4, 3GS, 3G) and a dumb phone. We have 500 shared minutes, unlimited texting and the $15 200MB data plan on the iPhones. For this our bill is approximately $180 per month. I do get a discount on the service because I am a retiree from a fortune 500 company.
Even though we have 1 teenager, and a 21 year old, the minutes are sufficient because the people they call tend to be other AT&T users. Also the boys mostly text anyway. Most of our data needs tend to be done with wifi, so the meager allotment is not an issue.
We live in Houston where the phone service is fairly decent and dropped calls is not an issue. However with my older son, he lives in a college town where AT&T's service is spotty at best, and generally bites (to use a colloquialism).
My older son would like to switch to VZ, I'm sure, but will likely be cost prohibitive. The incremental cost of his service on our plan is $30 - 15 for the line, 15 for data.
Although VZ has not formally announced it's rates, from what I can tell, for him to move will likely cost at least $70 or thereabouts. We have contracts that expire at various times, but the latest - mine since I got a iPhone4 when it first came out is approximately 1.5 years from now.
So switching if we wanted to is just not practical for the time being. I suspect many who have family plans may face the same considerations.
Let's see how much this really relieves AT&T. I think their network will still be garbage in NYC, SF, and other cities that struggle. I believe it's the infineon chipset that Apple uses. Euro style, not American.
The problems in NYC and SF are mostly carrier independent and have to do with the incredible process a cellular provider has to go through to add cell towers and antennae in those jurisdictions. Do you think any sane company would sit back and take the ire of these incredibly vocal and influential markets bloviating about how AT&T sucks if they had a way to quickly address the problem? These markets kill AT&T's reputation and they are painfully impotent to do much about it. The truth is that the cost and lag time of implementing more capacity imposed by the regulators in SF and NYC is the real squeeze point on getting this obvious and very publicized outcry silenced. Everyone blames the company (which I do get, incidentally) without looking a little deeper at the real restrictions on solving the problem. As usual, it is the unintended consequence of environmentally minded governments that is hampering AT&T as much as anything. Complain to the City before you demonize AT&T, because Verizon or anyone else is going to hit the same wall of regulations when they go to expand capacity. Whether such progressive governmental actions are in the best health interests of the public or not, this is the tall barrier carriers must scale to improve service capacity in those markets. I have great unfettered service from AT&T in Texas, but I may die of radiation-inflicted cancer as the consequence while angry cell users in SF and NYC live long lives. It seems unlikely, but oh well.
And never ask them what they'd like to see or have in a product... they just don't know until they see it!
Seth Godin got it just right: "Consumers don't know what they want if what they want does not exist yet."
This is why Apple (aka Steve Jobs) doesn't do focus groups. Focus groups are not compatible with how Apple conceives and designs its products.
With regard to what consumers will say about their future purchase behaviour, my two favourite anecdotes are the original Chrysler minivan and the Herman Miller Aeron chairs. In both cases, focus groups unanimously decreed them ugly and impractical. They vowed never to buy them. In both cases the companies forged ahead and in both cases the products were incredibly successful. Wildly successful.
So when AT&T customers answer in a survey that they will cancel and go to Verizon it must be ignored. Those customers may think they are going to switch, but there are many factors that will come to influence their decision. Some will be lazy and just not get around to it. Others will be deterred by the effort of changing or by termination fees. Others will start the process, but be saved by special retention offers from AT&T.
The impact of the Verizon iPhone will not be known for a quarter or two. Time is needed to establish a trend based on real world results, not conjecture.
The problems in NYC and SF are mostly carrier independent and have to do with the incredible process a cellular provider has to go through to add cell towers and antennae in those jurisdictions. Do you think any sane company would sit back and take the ire of these incredibly vocal and influential markets bloviating about how AT&T sucks if they had a way to quickly address the problem? These markets kill AT&T's reputation and they are painfully impotent to do much about it. The truth is that the cost and lag time of implementing more capacity imposed by the regulators in SF and NYC is the real squeeze point on getting this obvious and very publicized outcry silenced. Everyone blames the company (which I do get, incidentally) without looking a little deeper at the real restrictions on solving the problem. As usual, it is the unintended consequence of environmentally minded governments that is hampering AT&T as much as anything. Complain to the City before you demonize AT&T, because Verizon or anyone else is going to hit the same wall of regulations when they go to expand capacity. Whether such progressive governmental actions are in the best health interests of the public or not, this is the tall barrier carriers must scale to improve service capacity in those markets. I have great unfettered service from AT&T in Texas, but I may die of radiation-inflicted cancer as the consequence while angry cell users in SF and NYC live long lives. It seems unlikely, but oh well.
I read that there is a 3 year wait to get a tower or transmission
Seth Godin got it just right: "Consumers don't know what they want if what they want does not exist yet."
This is why Apple (aka Steve Jobs) doesn't do focus groups. Focus groups are not compatible with how Apple conceives and designs its products.
With regard to what consumers will say about their future purchase behaviour, my two favourite anecdotes are the original Chrysler minivan and the Herman Miller Aeron chairs. In both cases, focus groups unanimously decreed them ugly and impractical. They vowed never to buy them. In both cases the companies forged ahead and in both cases the products were incredibly successful. Wildly successful.
So when AT&T customers answer in a survey that they will cancel and go to Verizon it must be ignored. Those customers may think they are going to switch, but there are many factors that will come to influence their decision. Some will be lazy and just not get around to it. Others will be deterred by the effort of changing or by termination fees. Others will start the process, but be saved by special retention offers from AT&T.
The impact of the Verizon iPhone will not be known for a quarter or two. Time is needed to establish a trend based on real world results, not conjecture.
Probably a hundred or so dropped calls (Boston area) since I started on the 3G in June 2008 and no real improvement on the iPhone 4. It's not a phone issue as users in non-congested areas will tell you their iPhone works fine and never drops calls.
AT&T has had time to fix their network issues. They haven't. No confidence they'll be any better in the future.
I expect in NYC, SF and other problem metro areas users will be jumping ship from AT&T in droves.
So in two years I upgrade again to Verizon's LTE iPhone. By then LTE will be ready for prime time. Absolutely don't care about the network speeds, data/voice feature, etc. Just want a phone that won't drop calls every day - and am totally happy with the iPhone except for the AT&T issues.
That is odd. I found that my 3G worked better in Boston than most places (it was noticeably faster than it was near Philly, where I live) I've seen improvement since getting the iPhone 4.
I use my iphone 4 for business and personal reasons. For business, I use a few Web Conferencing Apps (AT&T Connect and Cisco Webex). Both are excellent for joining conference calls and for sharing presentations at the same time. I've slam dunked many deals this way. However, both Apps require concurrent voice/data access.
It's also nice talking to customers (and the wife) on the phone and at the same time receiving/sending/reviewing emails from them.
This would not be possible with Verizon.
Agreed. I used to have Verizon and was happier with their call quality and reliability than I have been with AT&T. But this is a total deal breaker for me going back.
Comments
Before getting a Microcell, the phone often failed to complete calls, dropped nearly half of all calls and had troubles even keeping a signal at all on many days.
Has the microcell improved things for you? At the office it seems to work pretty well (but far from flawlessly), but at home it is the same old problems, only I get to have them inside the house rather than having to go out to the sidewalk to have my calls dropped.
Sadly, not being sarcastic...
I'm in the 60% category
I'm in the 85% category. I'll be staying with ATT at least for the duration.
Maybe by June/July they will have a bunch of great phones? iP5? iPnano? Hot-shit Android phones?
I'll wait and see.
So the Verizon iPhone has only affect 1% of AT&T?s total user base. I would bet that other phones on Verizon will be much more affected than that.
I thought that at first, but then I realized that the iPhone 16% rate needs to be added to the other 15%.
The survey was before the announcement. The 16% iPhone response was "I'd switch ONLY if Verizon offered the iPhone". So they are in addition tot he folks who will switch regardless of the iPhone.
At&t has never been fined for bad billing Verizon has been multiple times.
http://www.walletpop.com/2010/10/28/...fine-over-mys/
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...n-2-12080.html
You might want to do a little Goggling before making claims like that.
http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=6974
In fact, I reported ATT's attempt to improperly bill me and they then agreed to refund the illegal tax they had collected from me. The lawsuit in the article above shows that the practice affected far more people than me.
The free case program ended on the 30th of September, there goes that theory.
What, are you claiming that people then threw away their cases after 9/30 and the announcement by Apple to get a case and hold their phone differently was erased from everyone's memory by Steve's Reality Distortion Field?
If these people start switching to Verizon, perhaps AT&T's network will have less traffic and thus those of us that remain will have better service? And by better, I mean less bad.
I would agree with you a 100%.
Also, I think people swicthing to Verizon will find that the grass is not greener there. Verizon may (I doubt it) be able to handle the traffic but they have completely shitty customer service and resolving a problem is a horrible thing to accomplish.
Secondly, I am doubtful that Verizon has the extra capacity it claims to have to handle the iPhone. They are business and like any other business they will only spend money when they can make money. So I bet all those people moving to Verizon will be unhappy as hell.
The good part, if a large number of people move, as you said, AT&T's network could get better,
Personally I have had no major issues on AT&T.
JDS
Has the microcell improved things for you? At the office it seems to work pretty well (but far from flawlessly), but at home it is the same old problems, only I get to have them inside the house rather than having to go out to the sidewalk to have my calls dropped.
Amen to most of your post, except for cost. AT&T and Verizon constitute a monopoly in my humble opinion and we won't see much, if any, reduction in costs.
In my case, I don't have a problem with cost. In fact, I find the AT&T charges to be pretty reasonable. We have a family plan with 3 iPhones (4, 3GS, 3G) and a dumb phone. We have 500 shared minutes, unlimited texting and the $15 200MB data plan on the iPhones. For this our bill is approximately $180 per month. I do get a discount on the service because I am a retiree from a fortune 500 company.
Even though we have 1 teenager, and a 21 year old, the minutes are sufficient because the people they call tend to be other AT&T users. Also the boys mostly text anyway. Most of our data needs tend to be done with wifi, so the meager allotment is not an issue.
We live in Houston where the phone service is fairly decent and dropped calls is not an issue. However with my older son, he lives in a college town where AT&T's service is spotty at best, and generally bites (to use a colloquialism).
My older son would like to switch to VZ, I'm sure, but will likely be cost prohibitive. The incremental cost of his service on our plan is $30 - 15 for the line, 15 for data.
Although VZ has not formally announced it's rates, from what I can tell, for him to move will likely cost at least $70 or thereabouts. We have contracts that expire at various times, but the latest - mine since I got a iPhone4 when it first came out is approximately 1.5 years from now.
So switching if we wanted to is just not practical for the time being. I suspect many who have family plans may face the same considerations.
Let's see how much this really relieves AT&T. I think their network will still be garbage in NYC, SF, and other cities that struggle. I believe it's the infineon chipset that Apple uses. Euro style, not American.
The problems in NYC and SF are mostly carrier independent and have to do with the incredible process a cellular provider has to go through to add cell towers and antennae in those jurisdictions. Do you think any sane company would sit back and take the ire of these incredibly vocal and influential markets bloviating about how AT&T sucks if they had a way to quickly address the problem? These markets kill AT&T's reputation and they are painfully impotent to do much about it. The truth is that the cost and lag time of implementing more capacity imposed by the regulators in SF and NYC is the real squeeze point on getting this obvious and very publicized outcry silenced. Everyone blames the company (which I do get, incidentally) without looking a little deeper at the real restrictions on solving the problem. As usual, it is the unintended consequence of environmentally minded governments that is hampering AT&T as much as anything. Complain to the City before you demonize AT&T, because Verizon or anyone else is going to hit the same wall of regulations when they go to expand capacity. Whether such progressive governmental actions are in the best health interests of the public or not, this is the tall barrier carriers must scale to improve service capacity in those markets. I have great unfettered service from AT&T in Texas, but I may die of radiation-inflicted cancer as the consequence while angry cell users in SF and NYC live long lives. It seems unlikely, but oh well.
Never believe what consumers say about their future purchase behaviour.
You are right on the money
Stats say ATT protected since less than 18%
off contract so the survey suggests ALL off contract
Customers will switch
Again ATT also knows that some will switch but given the
Right deal won't
Give me the right deal ill stay
The survey should ask
What does ATT need to do to keep you
What does vz have to do to get you
ATT understands that
And never ask them what they'd like to see or have in a product... they just don't know until they see it!
Seth Godin got it just right: "Consumers don't know what they want if what they want does not exist yet."
This is why Apple (aka Steve Jobs) doesn't do focus groups. Focus groups are not compatible with how Apple conceives and designs its products.
With regard to what consumers will say about their future purchase behaviour, my two favourite anecdotes are the original Chrysler minivan and the Herman Miller Aeron chairs. In both cases, focus groups unanimously decreed them ugly and impractical. They vowed never to buy them. In both cases the companies forged ahead and in both cases the products were incredibly successful. Wildly successful.
So when AT&T customers answer in a survey that they will cancel and go to Verizon it must be ignored. Those customers may think they are going to switch, but there are many factors that will come to influence their decision. Some will be lazy and just not get around to it. Others will be deterred by the effort of changing or by termination fees. Others will start the process, but be saved by special retention offers from AT&T.
The impact of the Verizon iPhone will not be known for a quarter or two. Time is needed to establish a trend based on real world results, not conjecture.
The problems in NYC and SF are mostly carrier independent and have to do with the incredible process a cellular provider has to go through to add cell towers and antennae in those jurisdictions. Do you think any sane company would sit back and take the ire of these incredibly vocal and influential markets bloviating about how AT&T sucks if they had a way to quickly address the problem? These markets kill AT&T's reputation and they are painfully impotent to do much about it. The truth is that the cost and lag time of implementing more capacity imposed by the regulators in SF and NYC is the real squeeze point on getting this obvious and very publicized outcry silenced. Everyone blames the company (which I do get, incidentally) without looking a little deeper at the real restrictions on solving the problem. As usual, it is the unintended consequence of environmentally minded governments that is hampering AT&T as much as anything. Complain to the City before you demonize AT&T, because Verizon or anyone else is going to hit the same wall of regulations when they go to expand capacity. Whether such progressive governmental actions are in the best health interests of the public or not, this is the tall barrier carriers must scale to improve service capacity in those markets. I have great unfettered service from AT&T in Texas, but I may die of radiation-inflicted cancer as the consequence while angry cell users in SF and NYC live long lives. It seems unlikely, but oh well.
I read that there is a 3 year wait to get a tower or transmission
Site in SF
I'm in the 85% category. I'll be staying with ATT at least for the duration.
Maybe by June/July they will have a bunch of great phones? iP5? iPnano? Hot-shit Android phones?
I'll wait and see.
lets make a deal.....the best deal wins
we need to have a best deal thread once this becomes available to all
as i have said before.....
if walmart straight talk using vz network can give you unlimited talk text data for $45 and no fees
we should be able to do the same for less than $60
thats my goal as close to or LESS than $60/month
am i off base with that, another member said att on the spot took $15 off/ a month
With the Wallmart plan, you do not roam off of Verizon's network ... and you have to buy from Wallmart
Seth Godin got it just right: "Consumers don't know what they want if what they want does not exist yet."
This is why Apple (aka Steve Jobs) doesn't do focus groups. Focus groups are not compatible with how Apple conceives and designs its products.
With regard to what consumers will say about their future purchase behaviour, my two favourite anecdotes are the original Chrysler minivan and the Herman Miller Aeron chairs. In both cases, focus groups unanimously decreed them ugly and impractical. They vowed never to buy them. In both cases the companies forged ahead and in both cases the products were incredibly successful. Wildly successful.
So when AT&T customers answer in a survey that they will cancel and go to Verizon it must be ignored. Those customers may think they are going to switch, but there are many factors that will come to influence their decision. Some will be lazy and just not get around to it. Others will be deterred by the effort of changing or by termination fees. Others will start the process, but be saved by special retention offers from AT&T.
The impact of the Verizon iPhone will not be known for a quarter or two. Time is needed to establish a trend based on real world results, not conjecture.
Well said.
Probably a hundred or so dropped calls (Boston area) since I started on the 3G in June 2008 and no real improvement on the iPhone 4. It's not a phone issue as users in non-congested areas will tell you their iPhone works fine and never drops calls.
AT&T has had time to fix their network issues. They haven't. No confidence they'll be any better in the future.
I expect in NYC, SF and other problem metro areas users will be jumping ship from AT&T in droves.
So in two years I upgrade again to Verizon's LTE iPhone. By then LTE will be ready for prime time. Absolutely don't care about the network speeds, data/voice feature, etc. Just want a phone that won't drop calls every day - and am totally happy with the iPhone except for the AT&T issues.
That is odd. I found that my 3G worked better in Boston than most places (it was noticeably faster than it was near Philly, where I live) I've seen improvement since getting the iPhone 4.
I use my iphone 4 for business and personal reasons. For business, I use a few Web Conferencing Apps (AT&T Connect and Cisco Webex). Both are excellent for joining conference calls and for sharing presentations at the same time. I've slam dunked many deals this way. However, both Apps require concurrent voice/data access.
It's also nice talking to customers (and the wife) on the phone and at the same time receiving/sending/reviewing emails from them.
This would not be possible with Verizon.
Agreed. I used to have Verizon and was happier with their call quality and reliability than I have been with AT&T. But this is a total deal breaker for me going back.