Apple didn't invent the tablet ... MS were making tablet versions of Windows XP back in the day. The iPad's just an oversized iPod riding a wave of popularity started in the media. Crack prices in Cupertino must've fallen recently.
*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.
You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.
You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
See that? That's just being dumb, not you, but the person you quoted. Come on. It's just stupid to deny the reality that apple made a bunch of successful products.
When I supported the Treo 700w (worst POS ever) I remember someone was waiting for the day apple would make a phone and put an end to the misery that WM is. He got his wish.
I am interesting in knowing what type of apps and background process the iPad can't handle?!
I use a stylus with my iPad for sketching. So the iPad can handle that type of input.
There aren't any android tablet that are rugged and the otterbox defender is pretty decent in a non-sandy/wet environment. There are some rugged wince devices but...
And there really aren't any background tasking that iOS can't handle.
Is there any particular reason you're hammering away at the idea that there's a niche that requires a Windows tablet in a thread on the iPad?
He's also wrong anyway. If there is a need for a ruggedized iPad folks will make one. There are ruggedized minis, mb, xserves, etc that meet mil-spec requirements. Expensive as hell but you can get them or hire someone to do the job.
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
Apple has not announced an iPad 2 so how can it be Apple vaporware?
Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.
As great as it feels to talk crap about stuff, it never works to your advantage, ever. That is policy at the companies I've worked at, like Siemens and SBC and Palm and others. At my current company if they find out I've badmouthed anyone, I'm fired.
For what you seem to imagine is some kind of canonical rule of business, there sure does seem to be a lot of trash talk going around....
I could go on-- it would probably be easier to make a list of the CE companies that haven't attacked Apple, usually pretty explicitly and unpleasantly.
So spare us the fainting spells. I'm glad whatever industries you've worked in are so genteel, but clearly Apple is pretty easy-going compared to the competition.
True. But will apple allow a 3rd party to make a rugged ipad for us that will withstand abuse, heat, etc? History says never, unless Jobs retires.
Keep in mind though, while I was at a customer's house, an appliance repair man was using the same tablet and printer. White collar workers may be fine with an ipad, but there are plenty of us who wouldn't mind such a device either.
Why the whining and moaning because Apple doesn't fit your companies needs? You can't please them all and they seem to be doing just fine with plenty of other people despite the fact that your company can't use them. Talk about beating a dead horse!
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.
I arrive at a job. I turn the truck off. It's fucking florida and it gets 98 degrees every day in the summer. And if you went to school you would know that's the temperature in the shade.
So now my truck is in the sun as I can't be in the shade all the time. I spend sometimes 8 hours at a job. I'm not allowed to let a truck idle with the a/c on for 8 hours. Not only is that a waste of gas and money, it is bad for any vehicle to idle. If I don't put the tablet in standby it will turn off due to thermal overload around 3 hours due to the processing involved with our FSA.
You people complain about ad hominem with me? STFU.
I will buy that having a iPad left in your truck in Florida is a bad idea. Here's the problem though. You never say what your company uses that can actually be left out in a steaming hot truck. To my knowledge, I never seen a portable electronic device, much less any tablet that can handle that kind of heat. Remember, if it is 98 degrees outside, it is almost 120 degrees after an hour in that truck. Tell us, what magical device can you leave in your truck for eight hours in the Florida heat?
I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.
yeah, there will certainly be some market for 5"-7" tabs. probably never more than 10% of all tablets. but there are always some consumers who prioritize small size and light weight. for that group, would not surprise me to see a 5.5" iPod touch someday.
I do hope this is bravado, and that internally Apple is taking their competition extremely seriously.
We really don't need to relive the 1980's and early 1990's.
It's at least bravado. Jobs is taking a medical leave again and tim cook is showing strength both for wall street and apples loyal customers. He also said they're confidant for a fight. It may be bravado but it's true they're in the cat bird seat. I don't see apple as having had a problem with taking their competition seriously.
It's corporate policy, of any company, to never talk bad about your competitors, ever. It never makes you look good. Customers see that and lose faith in your integrity to do a good job.
Apple took on microsoft directly on television for a long time to very good effect. It's the tough side of business. You have to run the show to decide when that's appropriate though. They don't let just anybody make those decisions.
It's an earnings call. Of course it's "bravado" or positioning.
I want to be impressed again by Apple. I realize Cook and Jobs have to do a circle jerk with the investors but I want to be impressed and WOWED by the next Ipad and the next MBP like I am with the new MBA.
Really? Vaporware? They just announced their tablets like a week and a half ago.
Three months from now if there is nothing, that's vaporware. Sheesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offthewall
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
The iPad 2 is not vaporware, because Apple hasn't said a word about it. All we (think) we know about it is due to leaks and rumors.
The others qualify as vaporware without us having to wait 3 months, because we have waited three months for such announcements in the past. Last year there were loads of announcements, including the famed Courier, which possibly never existed outside of the prototype Ballmer held in his hands. What happened to them? As soon as Apple announced the iPad, they all got very quiet and went back to the drawing board.
"Vaporware" simply refers to an announcement with any or some or most of the below attributes:
• an attempt to garner attention in the space
• an attempt to freeze the market and slow the uptake of actual shipping devices
• wishful thinking
• panicked reaction to a successful product, followed by "now what do we do to pull this off"
• reassurance to shareholders that something is being done in the space, hoping that the announcement will be forgotten in 3 months
• a best case scenario, with the understanding that 3 extra months to wait, and half the features is good enough
• if a product materializes and it actually meets expectations, it will be because the expectations have been lowered due to past record and no-one is expecting much.
• acting like, "this is easy, any of us computer guys can just walk in here and make a tablet"
•*thinking, "no-one got fired for putting Windows on a device"
• thinking, "Android is more popular than iOS, our tablet is gonna rock!"
When Apple announces the iPad 2 (which we all believe to be in production right now), you will be able to order it within a few weeks, it will have the price and the specs and the features they say it will have (if not more features and OS updates); and it will exceed the already high expectations. Apple has a proven track record of being pretty much spot on almost all the time, and it is hard for others to match it.
I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.
Until they realize that app coders are gonna have a hard time making a practical app UI that fits and presents them with a reasonable way to access and navigate around their data. The coder already quoted in the article has made that clear.
So, even if manufacturers choose the best 7in screen available (unlike the odd, bizarre choice of one with 1.5 pixel ration in landscape), that's barely half the battle, they already have a handicap before they begin:
• The OS is not yet ready for tablets (per Google's own statement)
• The APIs are not as sophisticated as Apple's
• The app developers don't have the experience on that form-factor that iOS developers do (who can keep releasing their iPhone apps, double the pixels, or introduce extra iPad features)
These people who may say "7in would be great" probably haven't tried out some of the UI stuff that iOS developers have come up with, and are going to realize pretty quickly:
a) I can do more stuff more easily on my iPhone, which is even more convenient
b) OK, 7in would be nice -- could slip it into my purse or oversized pocket; but the navigation possibilities and UX are limited making the device far less useful than I thought; I might as well sling a small iPad case over my shoulder or slip it into a larger handbag, satchel or briefcase because of the added value the iPad brings.
Someone called the 7in talk from Apple FUD. I think Apple are simply recognizing the great and innovative things their developers have done with the screen area over the iPhone/iPod Touch, to make really practical apps. If Apple say they tested 7in, then I take them at face-value. The interesting thing is that everyone thought Apple foolhardy for trying to slip a 10in device between small laptops and smartphones, saying that Apple wouldn't find a new market there.
Now, everyone is scrambling to fill even smaller spaces between smartphones and the "market" or niche that they didn't know was there until Apple put something really useful in the space. These 7in tablet manufacturers have to bet on both the space within a yet smaller gap being as valuable (though Apple has already tested it), AND that they can do something useful and innovative with it. Good luck with that. But, you know what they say, "there will always be someone who will buy anything these guys make."
[I put "market" in quotes, because it has been argued elsewhere (by the author of this article, I think) that there is definitely a market for the iPad itself -- people can't get enough of them -- but it remains to be seen if there is a market for tablets in general, at any size, because there are no successful products yet to support that notion -- it wasn't true all the years that Bill Gates tried to push tablets.]
Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.
Correct, however it's not Cook trash talking, it's Dilger. Cook never mentioned vapourware. Dilger made that up for the article.
On Android tablets Cook said "In terms of next generation. There’s nothing shipping yet. So I don’t know. Today they're vapor".
Comments
*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.
You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.
You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
See that? That's just being dumb, not you, but the person you quoted. Come on. It's just stupid to deny the reality that apple made a bunch of successful products.
When I supported the Treo 700w (worst POS ever) I remember someone was waiting for the day apple would make a phone and put an end to the misery that WM is. He got his wish.
I am interesting in knowing what type of apps and background process the iPad can't handle?!
I use a stylus with my iPad for sketching. So the iPad can handle that type of input.
There aren't any android tablet that are rugged and the otterbox defender is pretty decent in a non-sandy/wet environment. There are some rugged wince devices but...
And there really aren't any background tasking that iOS can't handle.
Is there any particular reason you're hammering away at the idea that there's a niche that requires a Windows tablet in a thread on the iPad?
He's also wrong anyway. If there is a need for a ruggedized iPad folks will make one. There are ruggedized minis, mb, xserves, etc that meet mil-spec requirements. Expensive as hell but you can get them or hire someone to do the job.
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
Apple has not announced an iPad 2 so how can it be Apple vaporware?
Whether or not it is true is irrelevant. At my company I have to take great efforts to not badmouth crummy companies we service.
As great as it feels to talk crap about stuff, it never works to your advantage, ever. That is policy at the companies I've worked at, like Siemens and SBC and Palm and others. At my current company if they find out I've badmouthed anyone, I'm fired.
For what you seem to imagine is some kind of canonical rule of business, there sure does seem to be a lot of trash talk going around....
Google trashes Apple, insinuates Jobs is a sinister dictator.
Balmer belittles Apple and Linux (just one example among many)
RIM CEO dismisses Apple entire business model as wrongheaded.
Adobe suggests Apple hates freedom, the internet and All That Is Good and Right.
Nokia mocks Scott Forstall by name.
I could go on-- it would probably be easier to make a list of the CE companies that haven't attacked Apple, usually pretty explicitly and unpleasantly.
So spare us the fainting spells. I'm glad whatever industries you've worked in are so genteel, but clearly Apple is pretty easy-going compared to the competition.
Apple has not announced an iPad 2 so how can it be Apple vaporware?
I think the iPad3, iPad4, and iPad5 is vaporware!!! Apple hasn't said anything about those models either!!!! So they don't exist!!!
*sigh* you guys never give up do you - yeah that M/soft segment of the tablet market was HUGE! not. And that's OK. It really is.
You just don't get it. But why you waste your time making that fact painfully obvious on an Apple fan site is a complete mystery
Please don't feed these drive-by one-post trolls!
True. But will apple allow a 3rd party to make a rugged ipad for us that will withstand abuse, heat, etc? History says never, unless Jobs retires.
Keep in mind though, while I was at a customer's house, an appliance repair man was using the same tablet and printer. White collar workers may be fine with an ipad, but there are plenty of us who wouldn't mind such a device either.
Why the whining and moaning because Apple doesn't fit your companies needs? You can't please them all and they seem to be doing just fine with plenty of other people despite the fact that your company can't use them. Talk about beating a dead horse!
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.
OMG, are you that stupid?
I arrive at a job. I turn the truck off. It's fucking florida and it gets 98 degrees every day in the summer. And if you went to school you would know that's the temperature in the shade.
So now my truck is in the sun as I can't be in the shade all the time. I spend sometimes 8 hours at a job. I'm not allowed to let a truck idle with the a/c on for 8 hours. Not only is that a waste of gas and money, it is bad for any vehicle to idle. If I don't put the tablet in standby it will turn off due to thermal overload around 3 hours due to the processing involved with our FSA.
You people complain about ad hominem with me? STFU.
I will buy that having a iPad left in your truck in Florida is a bad idea. Here's the problem though. You never say what your company uses that can actually be left out in a steaming hot truck. To my knowledge, I never seen a portable electronic device, much less any tablet that can handle that kind of heat. Remember, if it is 98 degrees outside, it is almost 120 degrees after an hour in that truck. Tell us, what magical device can you leave in your truck for eight hours in the Florida heat?
I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.
yeah, there will certainly be some market for 5"-7" tabs. probably never more than 10% of all tablets. but there are always some consumers who prioritize small size and light weight. for that group, would not surprise me to see a 5.5" iPod touch someday.
I do hope this is bravado, and that internally Apple is taking their competition extremely seriously.
We really don't need to relive the 1980's and early 1990's.
It's at least bravado. Jobs is taking a medical leave again and tim cook is showing strength both for wall street and apples loyal customers. He also said they're confidant for a fight. It may be bravado but it's true they're in the cat bird seat. I don't see apple as having had a problem with taking their competition seriously.
It's corporate policy, of any company, to never talk bad about your competitors, ever. It never makes you look good. Customers see that and lose faith in your integrity to do a good job.
Apple took on microsoft directly on television for a long time to very good effect. It's the tough side of business. You have to run the show to decide when that's appropriate though. They don't let just anybody make those decisions.
I do hope this is bravado, and that internally Apple is taking their competition extremely seriously.
We really don't need to relive the 1980's and early 1990's.
It's an earnings call. Of course it's "bravado" or positioning.
It's an earnings call. Of course it's "bravado" or positioning.
I want to be impressed again by Apple. I realize Cook and Jobs have to do a circle jerk with the investors but I want to be impressed and WOWED by the next Ipad and the next MBP like I am with the new MBA.
Really? Vaporware? They just announced their tablets like a week and a half ago.
Three months from now if there is nothing, that's vaporware. Sheesh.
Yes actually it's vapor if you can't buy it now. Three months from now (if that's really when these products become available) they will be competing with whatever Apple has out then (Apple's vaporware today - iPad 2).
The iPad 2 is not vaporware, because Apple hasn't said a word about it. All we (think) we know about it is due to leaks and rumors.
The others qualify as vaporware without us having to wait 3 months, because we have waited three months for such announcements in the past. Last year there were loads of announcements, including the famed Courier, which possibly never existed outside of the prototype Ballmer held in his hands. What happened to them? As soon as Apple announced the iPad, they all got very quiet and went back to the drawing board.
"Vaporware" simply refers to an announcement with any or some or most of the below attributes:
• an attempt to garner attention in the space
• an attempt to freeze the market and slow the uptake of actual shipping devices
• wishful thinking
• panicked reaction to a successful product, followed by "now what do we do to pull this off"
• reassurance to shareholders that something is being done in the space, hoping that the announcement will be forgotten in 3 months
• raising false expectations, yet again, saying, "this time it's different"
• a best case scenario, with the understanding that 3 extra months to wait, and half the features is good enough
• if a product materializes and it actually meets expectations, it will be because the expectations have been lowered due to past record and no-one is expecting much.
• acting like, "this is easy, any of us computer guys can just walk in here and make a tablet"
•*thinking, "no-one got fired for putting Windows on a device"
• thinking, "Android is more popular than iOS, our tablet is gonna rock!"
When Apple announces the iPad 2 (which we all believe to be in production right now), you will be able to order it within a few weeks, it will have the price and the specs and the features they say it will have (if not more features and OS updates); and it will exceed the already high expectations. Apple has a proven track record of being pretty much spot on almost all the time, and it is hard for others to match it.
I agree with you that other manufacturers are pushing 7" tablets because of price, but saying that there is no evidence of people wanting 7" tablets is taking that too far. Plenty of people have stated that they would like a smaller tablet, something that will fit in the oversized pocket of a coat/jacket.
Until they realize that app coders are gonna have a hard time making a practical app UI that fits and presents them with a reasonable way to access and navigate around their data. The coder already quoted in the article has made that clear.
So, even if manufacturers choose the best 7in screen available (unlike the odd, bizarre choice of one with 1.5 pixel ration in landscape), that's barely half the battle, they already have a handicap before they begin:
• The OS is not yet ready for tablets (per Google's own statement)
• The APIs are not as sophisticated as Apple's
• The app developers don't have the experience on that form-factor that iOS developers do (who can keep releasing their iPhone apps, double the pixels, or introduce extra iPad features)
These people who may say "7in would be great" probably haven't tried out some of the UI stuff that iOS developers have come up with, and are going to realize pretty quickly:
a) I can do more stuff more easily on my iPhone, which is even more convenient
b) OK, 7in would be nice -- could slip it into my purse or oversized pocket; but the navigation possibilities and UX are limited making the device far less useful than I thought; I might as well sling a small iPad case over my shoulder or slip it into a larger handbag, satchel or briefcase because of the added value the iPad brings.
Someone called the 7in talk from Apple FUD. I think Apple are simply recognizing the great and innovative things their developers have done with the screen area over the iPhone/iPod Touch, to make really practical apps. If Apple say they tested 7in, then I take them at face-value. The interesting thing is that everyone thought Apple foolhardy for trying to slip a 10in device between small laptops and smartphones, saying that Apple wouldn't find a new market there.
Now, everyone is scrambling to fill even smaller spaces between smartphones and the "market" or niche that they didn't know was there until Apple put something really useful in the space. These 7in tablet manufacturers have to bet on both the space within a yet smaller gap being as valuable (though Apple has already tested it), AND that they can do something useful and innovative with it. Good luck with that. But, you know what they say, "there will always be someone who will buy anything these guys make."
[I put "market" in quotes, because it has been argued elsewhere (by the author of this article, I think) that there is definitely a market for the iPad itself -- people can't get enough of them -- but it remains to be seen if there is a market for tablets in general, at any size, because there are no successful products yet to support that notion -- it wasn't true all the years that Bill Gates tried to push tablets.]
Vaporware by definition is something that never actually solidfies into an actual product for sale. so yeah, Cook is trash talking when using that term for definitely upcoming tablets. Promiseware or futureware or hypeware woulda been more accurate. guess he just wanted to show Apple has its game on.
Correct, however it's not Cook trash talking, it's Dilger. Cook never mentioned vapourware. Dilger made that up for the article.
On Android tablets Cook said "In terms of next generation. There’s nothing shipping yet. So I don’t know. Today they're vapor".