There has been a lot of consolidation in the hard disk industry over the past decade and now there are only three companies making hard drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital.
I would be stunned if hard drive makers regard this as big news. If they do, they deserve to go down. Those that are worth their salt have already begun to shift business strategies. While it may be wrong to "blame" the iPad for this, the trend is one that Apple has clearly hastened with its Air line, iPods, and iPhones. The 'Pad is just the latest form factor in a long line. When changes come to this industry you shouldn't be surprised that Apple is deeply involved.
For certain types of computer devices maybe, but who the heck could afford a 2 TB flash drive?. I'm not too familiar with manufacturing techniques of NAND, but I figure if enough effort was put into the production of NAND memory the price could be driven down quite a bit. Still, there's no need for a desktop to have only NAND memory. Use a hybrid drive with both spinning disks and NAND in one package. I've also heard that flash memory has a limited amount of write cycles (even with smart write algorithms) so any heavy-duty desktop computing might exceed those limits. I'm comfortable with the price/performance index of current hard drive technology, so I wouldn't be switching over any time soon. For a notebook, I'm ready to switch to flash memory even if it costs more.
Those Windows boys are going to be screwed having to run a bloated behemoth OS on expensive flash drives.
Once again drawing strangely unsupportable conclusions from disparate data. The iPad is not the only factor here.
100% agree. This article and the lower results for HD makers was purely yet another opportunity for DED to spread his grand conspiracy theory about how all of the analyst firms are against giving Apple credit for the iPad single-handedly destroying the PC industry, which the entire last half of the article was about.
Even if you include the iPad in the personal computer market (which I would not, it's a new category just like those analysts are saying), it would account for I think about 10% of total sales. Please explain how that translates into 70+% lower results for HD makers?
Lower demand for PC's overall, regardless if the consumer purchased an iPad instead, likely has a bigger impact than the iPad alone does.
I'm not too familiar with manufacturing techniques of NAND, but I figure if enough effort was put into the production of NAND memory the price could be driven down quite a bit. Still, there's no need for a desktop to have only NAND memory.
There's probably more money being put into reducing the cost of NAND manufacturing than any other type of integrated circuit at the moment. Prices have fallen at an incredible pace, and they will continue to do so for the next few years.
I agree with your comments about there being no need for a desktop to have NAND at the moment, though I think that will change at some point as the price of NAND continues to drop.
There has been a lot of consolidation in the hard disk industry over the past decade and now there are only three companies making hard drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital.
Once again drawing strangely unsupportable conclusions from disparate data. The iPad is not the only factor here.
Actually I don't believe the iPad is a significant factor at all. If that was the case we would see a slide in Mac sales but instead are seeing a ramp up.
It reallly seems like the Windows hardware business is in a tail spin brought down by MicroSoft. Basically to many years of zero innovation, poor products and the nasty side effects of market manipulation. If there is one thing businesses can't stomach is having a partner like Microsoft constantly gumming up the works.
I would imagine that in a couple of years we might have a better idea of what is going on, but I suspect a big issue is that people are rejecting MS approach to computing. It isn't so much that Apple has a better product but rather that companies are being forced to give up MS tech because of it's troublesome nature.
So you have all these corporate IT guys looking for a way out and a shinny new iPad catches their eye. It isn't catching their eye because of the flash memory but rather because the are drowning in MS hell and this is just one of the life rafts they have to grab onto. So iPad sales soar as do Mac sales. Macs are seen as bigger more stable life rafts.
For me the iPad has actually led to the purchase of another two hard drives as using it with File Browser to stream HD movies from a 4TB NAS works wonderfully well. I don't think the causality is as clear cut as the author would like to make out to be.
Right now I don't think it is a huge factor in the sharp drop in PC sales. The trend was downward even before iPad debuted.
IPad2, when it gets here, may be a far bigger factor. If it fully disposes of it's current limitations it could be a very powerful platform to draw significantly from the PC sector. Especially Windows laptops. Apple needs to address CPU performance and installed RAM so that a wider array of apps run well or in some cases can run at all.
These are highly probable upgrades but Apple really needs to look at maxing out flash storage. Honestly I'd like to see them double flash at the low end and quadrupal flash stirage at the high end. It is not impossible especially at the high prices the charge for tiny incremental increases. This would make the iPads far better buys and really start to make PC users think twice. Do I really need that laptop considering what I use it for.
Actually I don't believe the iPad is a significant factor at all. If that was the case we would see a slide in Mac sales but instead are seeing a ramp up.
Not sure how you came t that conclusion... Not saying that I think iPad numbers have that great an influence either, but Apple doesn't really offer cheap computers (netbooks) that might get consumed by the iPad.
Also, those who're spouting the virtues of the huge capacity HDDs I think are missing the point. Most people (and if you're reading this, you're NOT most people) will not come close to consuming terabytes of data.
Yet MOST people would be able to tell the difference when using a SSD, the speed is unmistakably apparent and impressive. It makes a computer work like it should. F a s t . . . 256GB will happily contain MOST users for the next 5 years, and 256 is affordable now.
Not sure how you came t that conclusion... Not saying that I think iPad numbers have that great an influence either, but Apple doesn't really offer cheap computers (netbooks) that might get consumed by the iPad.
Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times, but I've yet to see any information that supports the idea that iPad was the cause of the slow up. A lot of assumptions have been made, but one reality is that Apple simply hasn't sold enough iPads to cause the huge drop in PC sales. I've also seen claims like iPad and even AIR sales are an indication that people don't need massive amounts of local storage, again I think this is another idea that gets twisted into being by people who assume that sales indicate peoples needs for all classes of PC use.
In this regard iPad is a different class of device which isn't directly comparable to netbooks, laptops nor even desktops. I just think it is a mistake to believe a new class of device is having a significant impact on PC sales when it has not impacted Mac sales at all. Or to put it another way PC sales would have seen a downturn with or without the existence of iPad.
Quote:
Also, those who're spouting the virtues of the huge capacity HDDs I think are missing the point. Most people (and if you're reading this, you're NOT most people) will not come close to consuming terabytes of data.
Actually I think you are wrong here. A lot of that is due to media files which the iPad actually encourages the storage of. Plus it flies in the face of what many service reps do for their bread and butter.
At least that is the impression I get from a friend that runs a little business fixing up computers. Even there I have to admit that part of the demand for all that disk space comes from people not knowing any better.
In any event we come back to my point that iPad or even the Touch is simply not indicative of peoples storage needs as primary storage for these machines is often else where. On top of that the rapid advancement in games and more serious apps is already crimping the ability of many users to configure their iPads as they please.
So yeah for most people iPads indicate nothing about their storage needs. It makes about as much sense as saying iPod Touch is indicative of peoples storage needs.
Quote:
Yet MOST people would be able to tell the difference when using a SSD, the speed is unmistakably apparent and impressive. It makes a computer work like it should. F a s t . . . 256GB will happily contain MOST users for the next 5 years, and 256 is affordable now.
I agree with everything but the idea that 256GB is enough above. It isn't even close for most users.
Let me relate my experience going to a brand new Mac Book Pro with a 200 GB disk in early 2008. This from previously being a Linux user. Before I downloaded one media file I was out of 60 GB of space. Install Open Office, Java, Eclipse, IWork, Aperture, XCode and a few other apps and you are suddenly missing a lot of disk space. When one then invests just a bit in iTunes your disk space demands sky rocket.
ITunes itself drives a lot of demand for disk space and I do believe that most people use it to some extent or another. In my case interest in just one series had me buying an external drive for ITunes. That doesn't include any other data files, reference materials nor source taking up space on my drive. Finally in talking to people I don't even believe that I represent most people because I regularly clean out my drives.
So back to my point, the iDevices indicate nothing about a persons storage needs. Further for many the AIR indicates nothing as it is often purchased as an adjunct to another computer. I just don't see how people can jump to the conclusions they do. Especially considering we have hardly touched upon the use of external storage devices.
It isn't so much that Apple has a better product but rather that companies are being forced to give up MS tech because of it's troublesome nature. ....
So you have all these corporate IT guys looking for a way out and a shinny new iPad catches their eye. It isn't catching their eye because of the flash memory but rather because the are drowning in MS hell and this is just one of the life rafts they have to grab onto. So iPad sales soar as do Mac sales...
I gotta hand it to you. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can "talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time" ..... better than you. Your a riot, Alice ... a regular riot. ....
Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times, but I've yet to see any information that supports the idea that iPad was the cause of the slow up. A lot of assumptions have been made, but one reality is that Apple simply hasn't sold enough iPads to cause the huge drop in PC sales. I've also seen claims like iPad and even AIR sales are an indication that people don't need massive amounts of local storage, again I think this is another idea that gets twisted into being by people who assume that sales indicate peoples needs for all classes of PC use.
In this regard iPad is a different class of device which isn't directly comparable to netbooks, laptops nor even desktops. I just think it is a mistake to believe a new class of device is having a significant impact on PC sales when it has not impacted Mac sales at all. Or to put it another way PC sales would have seen a downturn with or without the existence of iPad.
Actually I think you are wrong here. A lot of that is due to media files which the iPad actually encourages the storage of. Plus it flies in the face of what many service reps do for their bread and butter.
At least that is the impression I get from a friend that runs a little business fixing up computers. Even there I have to admit that part of the demand for all that disk space comes from people not knowing any better.
In any event we come back to my point that iPad or even the Touch is simply not indicative of peoples storage needs as primary storage for these machines is often else where. On top of that the rapid advancement in games and more serious apps is already crimping the ability of many users to configure their iPads as they please.
So yeah for most people iPads indicate nothing about their storage needs. It makes about as much sense as saying iPod Touch is indicative of peoples storage needs.
I agree with everything but the idea that 256GB is enough above. It isn't even close for most users.
Let me relate my experience going to a brand new Mac Book Pro with a 200 GB disk in early 2008. This from previously being a Linux user. Before I downloaded one media file I was out of 60 GB of space. Install Open Office, Java, Eclipse, IWork, Aperture, XCode and a few other apps and you are suddenly missing a lot of disk space. When one then invests just a bit in iTunes your disk space demands sky rocket.
ITunes itself drives a lot of demand for disk space and I do believe that most people use it to some extent or another. In my case interest in just one series had me buying an external drive for ITunes. That doesn't include any other data files, reference materials nor source taking up space on my drive. Finally in talking to people I don't even believe that I represent most people because I regularly clean out my drives.
So back to my point, the iDevices indicate nothing about a persons storage needs. Further for many the AIR indicates nothing as it is often purchased as an adjunct to another computer. I just don't see how people can jump to the conclusions they do. Especially considering we have hardly touched upon the use of external storage devices.
"Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times"
Really? Gartner predicted 12% growth for PC's in 2010 at the end of 2009. They grew 13.8%, and sold 350 million.
Just because you read a blog post from DED, does not mean has any truth in it.
Comments
Nope.
There has been a lot of consolidation in the hard disk industry over the past decade and now there are only three companies making hard drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital.
None of them make SSDs to my knowledge.
Hatachi@
http://www.hitachigst.com/solid-stat...rastar-ssd400s
Hatachi@
http://www.hitachigst.com/solid-stat...rastar-ssd400s
I think Hitachi's flash is being made by IMFT though.
Traditional hard drives are here not for long.
For certain types of computer devices maybe, but who the heck could afford a 2 TB flash drive?. I'm not too familiar with manufacturing techniques of NAND, but I figure if enough effort was put into the production of NAND memory the price could be driven down quite a bit. Still, there's no need for a desktop to have only NAND memory. Use a hybrid drive with both spinning disks and NAND in one package. I've also heard that flash memory has a limited amount of write cycles (even with smart write algorithms) so any heavy-duty desktop computing might exceed those limits. I'm comfortable with the price/performance index of current hard drive technology, so I wouldn't be switching over any time soon. For a notebook, I'm ready to switch to flash memory even if it costs more.
Those Windows boys are going to be screwed having to run a bloated behemoth OS on expensive flash drives.
Once again drawing strangely unsupportable conclusions from disparate data. The iPad is not the only factor here.
100% agree. This article and the lower results for HD makers was purely yet another opportunity for DED to spread his grand conspiracy theory about how all of the analyst firms are against giving Apple credit for the iPad single-handedly destroying the PC industry, which the entire last half of the article was about.
Even if you include the iPad in the personal computer market (which I would not, it's a new category just like those analysts are saying), it would account for I think about 10% of total sales. Please explain how that translates into 70+% lower results for HD makers?
Lower demand for PC's overall, regardless if the consumer purchased an iPad instead, likely has a bigger impact than the iPad alone does.
I'm not too familiar with manufacturing techniques of NAND, but I figure if enough effort was put into the production of NAND memory the price could be driven down quite a bit. Still, there's no need for a desktop to have only NAND memory.
There's probably more money being put into reducing the cost of NAND manufacturing than any other type of integrated circuit at the moment. Prices have fallen at an incredible pace, and they will continue to do so for the next few years.
I agree with your comments about there being no need for a desktop to have NAND at the moment, though I think that will change at some point as the price of NAND continues to drop.
PC market analysts have, so far, sought to ignore the iPad ...
...IDC and Gartner bent over backward to avoid uttering "iPad," ...
...they both refused to include iPads ...
This allows the company to isolate Apple ... and pretend ...
Wow. Is this for real?
Can you say hybrid drives with some flash built-in like the "Momentus XT", and similar?!
Yup, a good compromise.
...and now there are only three companies making hard drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital.
Doesn't Samsung and Toshiba make hard drives too?
My first mac had a 500MB IBM IDE drive; every Mac I've owned since then came with a Toshiba hard drive.
Nope.
There has been a lot of consolidation in the hard disk industry over the past decade and now there are only three companies making hard drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Western Digital.
None of them make SSDs to my knowledge.
Hatachi@
http://www.hitachigst.com/solid-stat...rastar-ssd400s
I think Hitachi's flash is being made by IMFT though.
Doesn't Samsung and Toshiba make hard drives too?
My first mac had a 500MB IBM IDE drive; every Mac I've owned since then came with a Toshiba hard drive.
Toshiba makes both SSD's and HDD's and NAND chips.
http://sdd.toshiba.com/
... Floppy / CD / DVD icons make sense, since the user actually handles them
What's a floppy?
Once again drawing strangely unsupportable conclusions from disparate data. The iPad is not the only factor here.
Actually I don't believe the iPad is a significant factor at all. If that was the case we would see a slide in Mac sales but instead are seeing a ramp up.
It reallly seems like the Windows hardware business is in a tail spin brought down by MicroSoft. Basically to many years of zero innovation, poor products and the nasty side effects of market manipulation. If there is one thing businesses can't stomach is having a partner like Microsoft constantly gumming up the works.
I would imagine that in a couple of years we might have a better idea of what is going on, but I suspect a big issue is that people are rejecting MS approach to computing. It isn't so much that Apple has a better product but rather that companies are being forced to give up MS tech because of it's troublesome nature.
So you have all these corporate IT guys looking for a way out and a shinny new iPad catches their eye. It isn't catching their eye because of the flash memory but rather because the are drowning in MS hell and this is just one of the life rafts they have to grab onto. So iPad sales soar as do Mac sales. Macs are seen as bigger more stable life rafts.
IPad2, when it gets here, may be a far bigger factor. If it fully disposes of it's current limitations it could be a very powerful platform to draw significantly from the PC sector. Especially Windows laptops. Apple needs to address CPU performance and installed RAM so that a wider array of apps run well or in some cases can run at all.
These are highly probable upgrades but Apple really needs to look at maxing out flash storage. Honestly I'd like to see them double flash at the low end and quadrupal flash stirage at the high end. It is not impossible especially at the high prices the charge for tiny incremental increases. This would make the iPads far better buys and really start to make PC users think twice. Do I really need that laptop considering what I use it for.
Actually I don't believe the iPad is a significant factor at all. If that was the case we would see a slide in Mac sales but instead are seeing a ramp up.
Not sure how you came t that conclusion... Not saying that I think iPad numbers have that great an influence either, but Apple doesn't really offer cheap computers (netbooks) that might get consumed by the iPad.
Also, those who're spouting the virtues of the huge capacity HDDs I think are missing the point. Most people (and if you're reading this, you're NOT most people) will not come close to consuming terabytes of data.
Yet MOST people would be able to tell the difference when using a SSD, the speed is unmistakably apparent and impressive. It makes a computer work like it should. F a s t . . . 256GB will happily contain MOST users for the next 5 years, and 256 is affordable now.
Not sure how you came t that conclusion... Not saying that I think iPad numbers have that great an influence either, but Apple doesn't really offer cheap computers (netbooks) that might get consumed by the iPad.
Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times, but I've yet to see any information that supports the idea that iPad was the cause of the slow up. A lot of assumptions have been made, but one reality is that Apple simply hasn't sold enough iPads to cause the huge drop in PC sales. I've also seen claims like iPad and even AIR sales are an indication that people don't need massive amounts of local storage, again I think this is another idea that gets twisted into being by people who assume that sales indicate peoples needs for all classes of PC use.
In this regard iPad is a different class of device which isn't directly comparable to netbooks, laptops nor even desktops. I just think it is a mistake to believe a new class of device is having a significant impact on PC sales when it has not impacted Mac sales at all. Or to put it another way PC sales would have seen a downturn with or without the existence of iPad.
Also, those who're spouting the virtues of the huge capacity HDDs I think are missing the point. Most people (and if you're reading this, you're NOT most people) will not come close to consuming terabytes of data.
Actually I think you are wrong here. A lot of that is due to media files which the iPad actually encourages the storage of. Plus it flies in the face of what many service reps do for their bread and butter.
At least that is the impression I get from a friend that runs a little business fixing up computers. Even there I have to admit that part of the demand for all that disk space comes from people not knowing any better.
In any event we come back to my point that iPad or even the Touch is simply not indicative of peoples storage needs as primary storage for these machines is often else where. On top of that the rapid advancement in games and more serious apps is already crimping the ability of many users to configure their iPads as they please.
So yeah for most people iPads indicate nothing about their storage needs. It makes about as much sense as saying iPod Touch is indicative of peoples storage needs.
Yet MOST people would be able to tell the difference when using a SSD, the speed is unmistakably apparent and impressive. It makes a computer work like it should. F a s t . . . 256GB will happily contain MOST users for the next 5 years, and 256 is affordable now.
I agree with everything but the idea that 256GB is enough above. It isn't even close for most users.
Let me relate my experience going to a brand new Mac Book Pro with a 200 GB disk in early 2008. This from previously being a Linux user. Before I downloaded one media file I was out of 60 GB of space. Install Open Office, Java, Eclipse, IWork, Aperture, XCode and a few other apps and you are suddenly missing a lot of disk space. When one then invests just a bit in iTunes your disk space demands sky rocket.
ITunes itself drives a lot of demand for disk space and I do believe that most people use it to some extent or another. In my case interest in just one series had me buying an external drive for ITunes. That doesn't include any other data files, reference materials nor source taking up space on my drive. Finally in talking to people I don't even believe that I represent most people because I regularly clean out my drives.
So back to my point, the iDevices indicate nothing about a persons storage needs. Further for many the AIR indicates nothing as it is often purchased as an adjunct to another computer. I just don't see how people can jump to the conclusions they do. Especially considering we have hardly touched upon the use of external storage devices.
It isn't so much that Apple has a better product but rather that companies are being forced to give up MS tech because of it's troublesome nature. ....
So you have all these corporate IT guys looking for a way out and a shinny new iPad catches their eye. It isn't catching their eye because of the flash memory but rather because the are drowning in MS hell and this is just one of the life rafts they have to grab onto. So iPad sales soar as do Mac sales...
I gotta hand it to you. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can "talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time" ..... better than you. Your a riot, Alice ... a regular riot. ....
3.5" drives will be around for a while in server farms. 2.5" drives however, are doomed to extinction.
Hmm looks at brands new SAN and sees only 2.5inch SAS drives. Looks at brand new servers in rack, only sees 2.5inch SAS drives.
DED is a MORON. The iPad has had Zero impact on HD sales. SSD's have been climbing ever since they came out.
Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times, but I've yet to see any information that supports the idea that iPad was the cause of the slow up. A lot of assumptions have been made, but one reality is that Apple simply hasn't sold enough iPads to cause the huge drop in PC sales. I've also seen claims like iPad and even AIR sales are an indication that people don't need massive amounts of local storage, again I think this is another idea that gets twisted into being by people who assume that sales indicate peoples needs for all classes of PC use.
In this regard iPad is a different class of device which isn't directly comparable to netbooks, laptops nor even desktops. I just think it is a mistake to believe a new class of device is having a significant impact on PC sales when it has not impacted Mac sales at all. Or to put it another way PC sales would have seen a downturn with or without the existence of iPad.
Actually I think you are wrong here. A lot of that is due to media files which the iPad actually encourages the storage of. Plus it flies in the face of what many service reps do for their bread and butter.
At least that is the impression I get from a friend that runs a little business fixing up computers. Even there I have to admit that part of the demand for all that disk space comes from people not knowing any better.
In any event we come back to my point that iPad or even the Touch is simply not indicative of peoples storage needs as primary storage for these machines is often else where. On top of that the rapid advancement in games and more serious apps is already crimping the ability of many users to configure their iPads as they please.
So yeah for most people iPads indicate nothing about their storage needs. It makes about as much sense as saying iPod Touch is indicative of peoples storage needs.
I agree with everything but the idea that 256GB is enough above. It isn't even close for most users.
Let me relate my experience going to a brand new Mac Book Pro with a 200 GB disk in early 2008. This from previously being a Linux user. Before I downloaded one media file I was out of 60 GB of space. Install Open Office, Java, Eclipse, IWork, Aperture, XCode and a few other apps and you are suddenly missing a lot of disk space. When one then invests just a bit in iTunes your disk space demands sky rocket.
ITunes itself drives a lot of demand for disk space and I do believe that most people use it to some extent or another. In my case interest in just one series had me buying an external drive for ITunes. That doesn't include any other data files, reference materials nor source taking up space on my drive. Finally in talking to people I don't even believe that I represent most people because I regularly clean out my drives.
So back to my point, the iDevices indicate nothing about a persons storage needs. Further for many the AIR indicates nothing as it is often purchased as an adjunct to another computer. I just don't see how people can jump to the conclusions they do. Especially considering we have hardly touched upon the use of external storage devices.
"Windows PC sales have fallen on very hard times"
Really? Gartner predicted 12% growth for PC's in 2010 at the end of 2009. They grew 13.8%, and sold 350 million.
Just because you read a blog post from DED, does not mean has any truth in it.