People are now seeing that an "open" uncurated app store system doesn't work in the real world. You end up with lots of junk apps, stolen apps and malware. I don't understand the logic of those that worship at the alter of "open" app stores.
Very interesting comments from folks! Malware software, useless software, etc. etc. Now you know why Apple was putting some strict guidelines for their their app developers. Not only they were looking out for their own reputations, but their customers and app developers.
Who cares about Google - Developers and Consumers are the ones who should be furious about the scam they have been victims of.
The Android phones are the "poor mans iPhones." They are the equivalent to the Hyundai, sION, Pontiac, Saturn and Ford wannabe sports cars compared to the real deals - cheap imitations for those who want to look like they belong, but really don't. The only difference is that the car manufacturers don't claim their hunks of tin and plastic are better than the legitimate sports cars - they are honest in their claim that they are the budget sports cars.
Not so with the Ego that is Google - they are so delusional that they may actually believe what they are telling people - that the Android devices are better than iPhones. They will tout the fact that it contains a bloated and buggy Flash plugin (they will fail to tell you how horrible the experience is however), they will prance around the Google Apps (designed for the Android) and show how cool it is, and they will always market the latest greatest build (which the handset manufacturers will not make available as upgrades because their customers keep their phones FOREVER otherwise).
In fact, these consumers don't BUY stuff - they proudly chant "if it's free, it's for me." And so they will download all the "free" crap from the Marketplace, complain about the quality, complain about the spam, identity theft and complain about their pirated ringtones. What they won't do is buy... anything... more.
But it goes well beyond the content of the Marketplace - it goes all the way back to the Android itself. The Android market is fractured. No two phones are alike. There is no consistency among devices to promote a ecosystem necessary to support an application Marketplace (let alone a good one).
If Google were to demand that the UI be consistent across devices, that the "default apps" be identical and that they all function identically from one device to another - then you would begin to have a device that could support a real app ecosystem.
In the end Googles Android is nothing more than a Mobile version of the Linux desktop - too Open for it to ever be successful as anything other than a cheap imitation of the real deal.
Another problem keeping quality developers away is that every phone has different hardware specs!
Trying to develop an app for 4 different screen resolutions, different memory, cpus, etc. is near impossible.
Who has 20 different phones to test on???
It's not that bad but you do want a Sense and Blur phone at the target revs (1.6, 2.2). And stock but your can root one of those and the emulator is good enough for that. The emulator will give you a good idea of what will make your UI look like ass at the different rez.
I don't know how long this nonsense will continue to be voiced. You don't code to a device. You code to an API. One single version of my app works on 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2. I haven't tested this on 2.3 yet, but I expect it to continue working. With every new release, I had to tweak it a bit (permissions, display size agnostic from 1.5-1.6) etc. If apps are coded properly without using absolute layouts and device independent pixels work just fine.
Sense has a borked up soft keyboard that doesn't respond the same way as stock. As in some of the freaking events are ignored which makes for some ugly code and hacks to work around the inability of some idiot at HTC to read a frigging spec.
If you aren't testing with Sense and Blur the first time you hear about something getting broken is annoyed comments that your app sucks because of XYZ. Then you test stock and XYZ works just ducky and until you realize they have a HTC phone.
Coding to the API rev works just fine...or at least nothing has bitten me on the ass but I work in a benign environment (enterprise). All the phones we support are 2.2. I dropped 1.6 support because...I could.
This forum you're using is open source. The whole software stack is probably open source. Yet, you're using it.
The problem with android marketpkplace is in implementation. I wanted to buy something on the marketplace the other day but the experience is not conducive to paying for the app. So i didn't.
The Android Market is indeed pretty sorry for app discovery and there are various problems with purchasing apps (lack of worldwide ability to pay, payment options etc). Reducing the return policy from 24 hours to 15 minutes hasn't helped. But the AppStore is no great shakes either. It also sucks, albeit a little less.
As a developer with apps on both stores I completely agree.
I don't see issues with the wild west on the android market place, but biggest issue is everyone android phone should have google marketplace on it. If phone resellers want a slice of that profit then they can create an agreement with Google with a percentage of the 30% that google takes for each app sale then you have one store that everyone will use. Developers then only have to upload to one location and their apps will be available for all users instead having to upload to 20 different stores for android user.
The google marketplace is awesome that I can upload an app and have it available to users instant. Another downside is I can't give users a link to my app info in market place like you can in iTunes -- you need to be on the device to browse the android marketplace.
vBulletin is not open source. What? Can't scroll down to the bottom of the page?
Quote:
The whole software stack is probably open source. Yet, you're using it.
Could be. In this case it is according to netcraft but it could have been IIS/Windows as opposed to Apache/CentOS and no one would notice the difference.
I wonder if part of the reason is because with Andriod market you can delete a payed app within 24hrs and you are not charged.
I'm getting the Iphone when it comes out with Verizon. If I have read this right, Iphone apps are not easy to get a refund with. Is this true that you have to email a request to the developer? I would have a lot more apps if i had not been able to get refunds.
Ha, so much for "the beauty of the Android App Store is in its openness" or words to that effect by Eric Schmidt.
Will the openness fanatics who have been championing Android commit harakiri once word gets out that Google will start, omigod, curating the Android app store?
Google has used the "open" mantra to suggest there is more freedom on the platform (which is debatable from the end-user standpoint) but what they have really done is created and extended a culture of "free" where people are devaluing their personal information to receive "free" services. Social graph should be a real eye-opener.
People are now seeing that an "open" uncurated app store system doesn't work in the real world. You end up with lots of junk apps, stolen apps and malware. I don't understand the logic of those that worship at the alter of "open" app stores.
I don't have an android so i'm curious as to how is it not a conducive experience?
I just got to the point of paying and realized i could'nt use something like pay pal. I would have to set myself up for google checkout and decided - forget it. I'll live without. So it might be better to say, in the first instance it was too much. But that might be enough to avoid the issue altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
vBulletin is not open source. What? Can't scroll down to the bottom of the page?
so it is.
The point I was trying to make was that open source is not necessarily rubbish as strongly intimated by the poster i replied to.
Despite brisk hardware sales to consumers and large numbers of apps sitting in in marketplace, Google's Android platform isn't resulting in health app sales, a problem the company is trying to solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenHawk
I'm suprised Google have that much of a focus on a single category of app... How are the other categories doing?
Here I thought I was the only one to spot that! Are health apps selling in any great quantity on the iPhone?
Good line. And I'm telling everyone that if they know what is good for them, DO NOT stay logged into Google when online...
Amen.
Another tip: get Meerkat or learn ssh tunnels and disguise your IP address.
Create a SOCKS proxy tunnel on your Mac (Meerkat shows you how) and tunnel all your web traffic through another machine, in effect changing your IP address, and making Google, and other privacy abominations, think you are coming from that IP address, frustrating their attempts to profile your behavior and preferences, etc.
My brother just got an Android phone on Cricket. He has not set up his GMail account on it yet because he can't figure out how. He called me and asked me how he can get iPhone apps on his phone. He "chose" an Android phone because:
has he turned the phone on yet? One of the initial setup options of an Andriod phone is to attach it to your google account
Comments
Funny cause I have a NYTimes app on my iPhone that constantly crashes and is full of ads.
Funny cause I have a NYTimes app on my iPhone that has never crashed and has one line of ads.
The Android phones are the "poor mans iPhones." They are the equivalent to the Hyundai, sION, Pontiac, Saturn and Ford wannabe sports cars compared to the real deals - cheap imitations for those who want to look like they belong, but really don't. The only difference is that the car manufacturers don't claim their hunks of tin and plastic are better than the legitimate sports cars - they are honest in their claim that they are the budget sports cars.
Not so with the Ego that is Google - they are so delusional that they may actually believe what they are telling people - that the Android devices are better than iPhones. They will tout the fact that it contains a bloated and buggy Flash plugin (they will fail to tell you how horrible the experience is however), they will prance around the Google Apps (designed for the Android) and show how cool it is, and they will always market the latest greatest build (which the handset manufacturers will not make available as upgrades because their customers keep their phones FOREVER otherwise).
In fact, these consumers don't BUY stuff - they proudly chant "if it's free, it's for me." And so they will download all the "free" crap from the Marketplace, complain about the quality, complain about the spam, identity theft and complain about their pirated ringtones. What they won't do is buy... anything... more.
But it goes well beyond the content of the Marketplace - it goes all the way back to the Android itself. The Android market is fractured. No two phones are alike. There is no consistency among devices to promote a ecosystem necessary to support an application Marketplace (let alone a good one).
If Google were to demand that the UI be consistent across devices, that the "default apps" be identical and that they all function identically from one device to another - then you would begin to have a device that could support a real app ecosystem.
In the end Googles Android is nothing more than a Mobile version of the Linux desktop - too Open for it to ever be successful as anything other than a cheap imitation of the real deal.
Another problem keeping quality developers away is that every phone has different hardware specs!
Trying to develop an app for 4 different screen resolutions, different memory, cpus, etc. is near impossible.
Who has 20 different phones to test on???
It's not that bad but you do want a Sense and Blur phone at the target revs (1.6, 2.2). And stock but your can root one of those and the emulator is good enough for that. The emulator will give you a good idea of what will make your UI look like ass at the different rez.
I don't know how long this nonsense will continue to be voiced. You don't code to a device. You code to an API. One single version of my app works on 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2. I haven't tested this on 2.3 yet, but I expect it to continue working. With every new release, I had to tweak it a bit (permissions, display size agnostic from 1.5-1.6) etc. If apps are coded properly without using absolute layouts and device independent pixels work just fine.
Sense has a borked up soft keyboard that doesn't respond the same way as stock. As in some of the freaking events are ignored which makes for some ugly code and hacks to work around the inability of some idiot at HTC to read a frigging spec.
If you aren't testing with Sense and Blur the first time you hear about something getting broken is annoyed comments that your app sucks because of XYZ. Then you test stock and XYZ works just ducky and until you realize they have a HTC phone.
Coding to the API rev works just fine...or at least nothing has bitten me on the ass but I work in a benign environment (enterprise). All the phones we support are 2.2. I dropped 1.6 support because...I could.
"Chu used the phrase 'stay tuned' enough to make a drinking game out of it," Chiang wrote.
Priceless.
This forum you're using is open source. The whole software stack is probably open source. Yet, you're using it.
The problem with android marketpkplace is in implementation. I wanted to buy something on the marketplace the other day but the experience is not conducive to paying for the app. So i didn't.
Darwin is also open source.
The Android Market is indeed pretty sorry for app discovery and there are various problems with purchasing apps (lack of worldwide ability to pay, payment options etc). Reducing the return policy from 24 hours to 15 minutes hasn't helped. But the AppStore is no great shakes either. It also sucks, albeit a little less.
As a developer with apps on both stores I completely agree.
I don't see issues with the wild west on the android market place, but biggest issue is everyone android phone should have google marketplace on it. If phone resellers want a slice of that profit then they can create an agreement with Google with a percentage of the 30% that google takes for each app sale then you have one store that everyone will use. Developers then only have to upload to one location and their apps will be available for all users instead having to upload to 20 different stores for android user.
The google marketplace is awesome that I can upload an app and have it available to users instant. Another downside is I can't give users a link to my app info in market place like you can in iTunes -- you need to be on the device to browse the android marketplace.
This forum you're using is open source.
vBulletin is not open source. What? Can't scroll down to the bottom of the page?
The whole software stack is probably open source. Yet, you're using it.
Could be. In this case it is according to netcraft but it could have been IIS/Windows as opposed to Apache/CentOS and no one would notice the difference.
I'm getting the Iphone when it comes out with Verizon. If I have read this right, Iphone apps are not easy to get a refund with. Is this true that you have to email a request to the developer? I would have a lot more apps if i had not been able to get refunds.
This forum you're using is open source. The whole software stack is probably open source. Yet, you're using it.
VBulletin is not open source.
oops nht beat me
Ha, so much for "the beauty of the Android App Store is in its openness" or words to that effect by Eric Schmidt.
Will the openness fanatics who have been championing Android commit harakiri once word gets out that Google will start, omigod, curating the Android app store?
Google has used the "open" mantra to suggest there is more freedom on the platform (which is debatable from the end-user standpoint) but what they have really done is created and extended a culture of "free" where people are devaluing their personal information to receive "free" services. Social graph should be a real eye-opener.
People are now seeing that an "open" uncurated app store system doesn't work in the real world. You end up with lots of junk apps, stolen apps and malware. I don't understand the logic of those that worship at the alter of "open" app stores.
I don't either.
I don't have an android so i'm curious as to how is it not a conducive experience?
I just got to the point of paying and realized i could'nt use something like pay pal. I would have to set myself up for google checkout and decided - forget it. I'll live without. So it might be better to say, in the first instance it was too much. But that might be enough to avoid the issue altogether.
vBulletin is not open source. What? Can't scroll down to the bottom of the page?
so it is.
The point I was trying to make was that open source is not necessarily rubbish as strongly intimated by the poster i replied to.
Quote from article:
Despite brisk hardware sales to consumers and large numbers of apps sitting in in marketplace, Google's Android platform isn't resulting in health app sales, a problem the company is trying to solve.
I'm suprised Google have that much of a focus on a single category of app... How are the other categories doing?
Here I thought I was the only one to spot that!
Good line. And I'm telling everyone that if they know what is good for them, DO NOT stay logged into Google when online...
Amen.
Another tip: get Meerkat or learn ssh tunnels and disguise your IP address.
Create a SOCKS proxy tunnel on your Mac (Meerkat shows you how) and tunnel all your web traffic through another machine, in effect changing your IP address, and making Google, and other privacy abominations, think you are coming from that IP address, frustrating their attempts to profile your behavior and preferences, etc.
It's harder to describe than it is to do.
Here is one simple anecdote:
My brother just got an Android phone on Cricket. He has not set up his GMail account on it yet because he can't figure out how. He called me and asked me how he can get iPhone apps on his phone. He "chose" an Android phone because:
has he turned the phone on yet? One of the initial setup options of an Andriod phone is to attach it to your google account