Sony to take on Apple with next-gen PlayStation Portable, Android game store

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  • Reply 81 of 137
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    I would like to see what the distribution of games sold in apps stores is in terms of "real" games Vs. "time wasters".



    Anyways, Apple needs to buy EA to stay competitive.



    To me that translates to "elaborate time wasters" vs. "casual time wasters." I'm sooo glad I was born a bit early for the electronic gaming generation, which has claimed so much of so many lives running around in someone else's synthetic maze blowing up virtual non-things.



    Word, Keynote and Photoshop are still my favorite "video games." I endure reading about gaming because I have to in order to follow the industries that matter to me.



    (Just getting that out of my system. The most sallow-faced among you may feel free to crap on my head for insulting your existence-numbing predilections.)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palegolas View Post


    I see what you're saying, but gaming systems has been presented well in advance for years. It's a traditional way to build up anticipation over time. Really just about everyone in any industry is presenting things well in advance. Apple is among the few who're presenting things when they're ready to ship, building hype with the element of surprise and polish.



    But I'm sure Sony is feeling a little desperate nonetheless



    And those "traditions" are working so well against Apple's model.
  • Reply 82 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Back in 2005, the Playstation brand was seen as bulletproof. Now not so much. If anything, the games industry is less tolerant of platforms which don't provide a secure way of making money.



    I'm not sure any platform provides "a secure way of making money." 2010 was an incredible year to be a gamer, because of all of the awesome games that came out; apparently it wasn't nearly as good a year for the companies that actually made the games.



    I think iPhone development is certainly risky: you have no guarantee that Apple will approve your app! Barriers to entry are low, resulting in drastically increased competition. Moreover, your income can be much lower on the iPhone since your game probably sells for 99 cents (30% of which is pocketed by Apple), rather than $30. As a result, you may need to sell 30x as many copies of your game.



    The App store itself is a bizarre popularity contest; it seems to reward instant gratification and eye candy over a possibly deeper experience and quality design. As a result, some great apps end up at the bottom of the heap and are ignored or forgotten while a "fart app" makes the top 10 for 2010!



    That's not to say that it's impossible to be successful on the App store - you just have to make a great app, promote it via other channels, and get lucky!
  • Reply 83 of 137
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,884member
    Somehow, I have the feeling that the demographic "hardcore portable gamer" is a pretty small segment. Those are the only people who will forego an iPhone or iPod Touch in favor of this new PSP.
  • Reply 84 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    To me that translates to "elaborate time wasters" vs. "casual time wasters." I'm sooo glad I was born a bit early for the electronic gaming generation, which has claimed so much of so many lives running around in someone else's synthetic maze blowing up virtual non-things.



    Word, Keynote and Photoshop are still my favorite "video games." I endure reading about gaming because I have to in order to follow the industries that matter to me.



    (Just getting that out of my system. The most sallow-faced among you may feel free to crap on my head for insulting your existence-numbing predilections.)



    And those "traditions" are working so well against Apple's model.



    Yeah, or wasting time simulating a highly abstracted medieval war with plastic pieces on an 8x8 grid, pretending to buy and develop real estate while rolling 6-sided dice and collecting $200/week in fake money, or figuring out what words could be made with a certain collection of letters. Curse those terrible new-fangled "games" for destroying the youth of today!



    I gather you don't waste time reading books, going to movies, listening to music, watching television, pursuing "non-productive" hobbies, or posting on web forums either. ;-)
  • Reply 85 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blecch View Post


    I think iPhone development is certainly risky: you have no guarantee that Apple will approve your app!



    Actually Apple will approve anything that meets their guidelines.



    Sony can (and will) disallow complete games, for all sorts of reasons. Including "we don't like it" or "we already have something like that". The TRC lists for both Sony and MS are very difficult to pass. And developers have to pay for each submission. I once had a game refused because it stalled if a user pulled out a controller at one specific moment in the game!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blecch View Post


    Barriers to entry are low, resulting in drastically increased competition.



    Huh?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blecch View Post


    Moreover, your income can be much lower on the iPhone since your game probably sells for 99 cents (30% of which is pocketed by Apple), rather than $30. As a result, you may need to sell 30x as many copies of your game.



    I think you need do a bit more research.

    On the app store, developers charge what they want to. From free to $1000. Apple takes a 30% hit.



    With conventionally sold PSP titles, you have to pay a unit royalty to Sony. And pay for the duplication and inventory production. THEN you have to share revenues with the bricks and mortar shop. So a $30 title will earn a publisher about $10. The developer might only see $2 or $3 from that sale.



    I think Sony's electronic distribution is similar to Microsoft (a 70-30) split. ie. Sony take 70%.



    I agree that content can get lost in the App store. But it's not Apple's job to promote your game.



    C.
  • Reply 86 of 137
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post


    Wait, what?! As an owner of a PSP-3000, that's just plain wrong. The PSP had digital downloads even before the PSP-3000 came out. Although they didn't have internal storage, they've had Memory Sticks since the PSP-1000 model (how else do you save your game). I have numerous PSP-One games downloaded and installed (FF7, Resident Evil, MGS) on my PSP.



    My bad. Here is the downloadable game history for the PSP in the US:



    November 2007 PC based PS Store

    October 2008 PSP based PS Store

    PSP Go Revealed May 2009



    I was technically correct in my statement tho as I said nothing before the PSP Go had internal memory and could make use of digital downloads. Starting in later 2007, 3 years into the system's lifespan, you could start downloading games on the PS Store on your PC and transferring them to your PSP to save on a memory card. A year later you could access the store from your PSP itself. A year later the PSP Go came out and there was finally a PSP with internal storage.



    This new version is clearly a large jump past the PSP Go, especially in looks.
  • Reply 87 of 137
    At first I was concerned that PlayStation Suite was only available for Android and not the iPhone... then I thought about how well PlayStation 1 and PSP games would work in emulation on the iPhone or any Android phone without actual buttons...
  • Reply 88 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by edge View Post


    Erm..... the NGP isn't a phone, it may have 3G, cameras and a microphone....and there's nothing that confirms categorically that the NGP's OS will be Android. The thing with 'control creep' is that's all well and good in a phone, but as I stated, it's not a phone, it's designed with mobile gaming in my mind.



    The Playstation Suite is an Android app



    Fair play, perhaps I've misinterpreted that. But that just then asks the question of whether or not there's a place for a dedicated, non-phone handheld device in 2011. I suspect not, strongly.
  • Reply 89 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    My bad. Here is the downloadable game history for the PSP in the US:



    November 2007 PC based PS Store

    October 2008 PSP based PS Store

    PSP Go Revealed May 2009



    I was technically correct in my statement tho as I said nothing before the PSP Go had internal memory and could make use of digital downloads. Starting in later 2007, 3 years into the system's lifespan, you could start downloading games on the PS Store on your PC and transferring them to your PSP to save on a memory card. A year later you could access the store from your PSP itself. A year later the PSP Go came out and there was finally a PSP with internal storage.



    This new version is clearly a large jump past the PSP Go, especially in looks.



    This is misleading - while it's true that the PlayStation Store wasn't rolled out until 2007, the original PSP in 2005:



    - came with a removable (and, importantly, upgradable!) memory card (mine was 32 MB, tiny but big enough for game saves)

    - supported downloadable game demos and other software

    - supported downloadable firmware updates
  • Reply 90 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post


    Thanks. Wasn't sure to the maturity level of these forums ... and most defensive talk about a competing product usually instigates a flamewar.



    you will likely witness defensive and dismissive talk (a typical reaction to a viable threat) about a competing product . ignore most of it; be amused by all of it.



    anyways, here's some gameplay footage. more specifically, a video montage followed by a live demonstration of Uncharted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKsWSzAe5R4&hd=1&t=4m30s
  • Reply 91 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    To me that translates to "elaborate time wasters" vs. "casual time wasters." I'm sooo glad I was born a bit early for the electronic gaming generation, which has claimed so much of so many lives running around in someone else's synthetic maze blowing up virtual non-things.



    Word, Keynote and Photoshop are still my favorite "video games." I endure reading about gaming because I have to in order to follow the industries that matter to me.



    (Just getting that out of my system. The most sallow-faced among you may feel free to crap on my head for insulting your existence-numbing predilections.)



    And those "traditions" are working so well against Apple's model.



    I can appreciate your translations to "elaborate time wasters" and "casual time wasters" despite the fact that I have enjoyed video games since pong and the atari 2600.

    No if you'll excuse me I'm going to go look up the meaning of sallow-faced.
  • Reply 92 of 137
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    You must be forgetting UMD movies and how terribly they bombed. The PSP was billed from the start as an all around entertainment device and a premiere way to watch movies on the go, plus oh yeah it plays these awesome games.



    I've watched lots of movies on my PSP, none via UMD, I've listened to music from it, and it plays awesome games. Have you actually used one before?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


    You should ignore digital sales, given that no PSP prior to the PSPGo actually had internal storage and access to a digital store. So millions of the ones sold aren't even capable of utilizing those, they just experience shitty battery life running UMDs.



    That's weird, I have downloaded PSP games from the PSN store, and I only have a PSP-2000, I'm fairly sure you have never even touched a PSP.
  • Reply 93 of 137
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,310moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Just been playing Dead Space a bit on my iPad. The fact that we are seeing triple-A franchises (franchises, obviously not the console ports themselves yet) on iPhone and iPad is something I didn't really expect in 2010 or even early 2011.



    Here's the thing though, the PSP2 stage demo was playing PS3 ports. They demoed Uncharted and it looked amazing:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6rNKXB6sw



    They even suggested it was as powerful as a PS3. It's not too wild a statement when you consider the PS3 is over 4 years old now and the PSP doesn't really have to output HD, nor does it have to run near 60FPS - it can be 1/3 the performance and look pretty much the same. Battery life has been noted as comparable with the previous PSP, which is 5 hours.



    They got rid of UMD in favour of Flash media and it is a pretty big device so plenty of room for a bigger battery:







    It ends up being lighter than before due to ditching the UMD drive.



    I wonder if the PS3 will end up being the last big console Sony makes. Portable gaming is clearly the way forward. Just wireless display output to a TV and it will be a great gaming device.



    I still think the iPhone has an advantage in terms of size because it lets you have the games with you all the time. You aren't going to carry that PSP2 around everywhere along with your phone.



    Sony will have the big games developers behind them though and that's really where Apple need to make some effort. The watered-down versions of the major franchises just aren't that good.



    The iPhone 5 rumour suggested dual-cores so we could safely assume half the PSP2 performance but that's still plenty of power and between a PS2 and XBox. Plenty for some big titles. Apple could even pay 100 developers $1m each to port their games instead of spending it on advertising. Then people will come to the platform for the games and they recoup some of the money.
  • Reply 94 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post






    Good God the NGP is HUGE!!!
  • Reply 95 of 137
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    Instead of chasing Apple they need to simply innovate.



    Hard to out innovate Apple!
  • Reply 96 of 137
    Looks like they just need to make a slide in adapter for the iPhone to add the control pads. Now that would be a game changer.
  • Reply 97 of 137
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Here's the thing though, the PSP2 stage demo was playing PS3 ports. They demoed Uncharted and it looked amazing:

    They even suggested it was as powerful as a PS3. It's not too wild a statement when you consider the PS3 is over 4 years old now



    It does look great. But don't believe all the hype. Sony have consistently exaggerated the performance of every console they produced.



    The numbers I have heard was that it could shift more polygons that a Wii. And with pixel shaders too.



    So exaggerated performance or not - it is certainly very good.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I wonder if the PS3 will end up being the last big console Sony makes. Portable gaming is clearly the way forward. Just wireless display output to a TV and it will be a great gaming device.



    You are not wrong there.

    It's been a long time since the last generation of consoles, and there's absolutely no appetite within the industry for another costly transition. The cost of creating great content that maxes out these machines is still too high for the returns. (Unless, of course, you own a Halo of War Duty Auto Ismo)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Sony will have the big games developers behind them though and that's really where Apple need to make some effort. The watered-down versions of the major franchises just aren't that good.



    The problem for Sony is their alliances with these big games devs is not all love and charity. Sony end up "supporting" those big developers. To make the platform attractive they entice strategic titles onto their platform with cash. Or just buy the dev team outright. This is how Sony secure much needed glamour to the platform. But the strategy is expensive. And does nothing for their bottom line.



    I don't think Apple even consider playing that sort of game. Apple adopt a "if you build it, they will come" philosophy - and the whole idea of mutual blackmail and incentives just does not occur to them.



    One interesting thing is that the specs of this machine and a dual-core iPad / iPod 5 are really not that different. It'll be interesting to see if devs move content from iOS to NGP or vice versa.



    C.
  • Reply 98 of 137
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palegolas View Post


    And the battery lasts exactly for how long?



    Well it is beefy device and, without UMD drive, there should be more than enough place for a decent battery. Original PSP was pulling around 5 hours with reasonably small battery, which is not bad for 3D games - I don't think my 3Gs would last 5 hours while playing any demanding 3D game.
  • Reply 99 of 137
    eehdeehd Posts: 137member
    The problem with these devices, in my opinion, is that they are not multipurpose. Nobody wants to carry a cellphone, an mp3 player, a gaming device, an ebook reader, etc. People want all-in-one devices and until these other companies realize it, they will continue to make niche products. By the way, I don't just mean all-in-one devices. I mean all-in-one devices that do everything, if not all things, well.
  • Reply 100 of 137
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eehd View Post


    Nobody wants to carry a cellphone, an mp3 player, a gaming device, an ebook reader, etc.



    There's a hard-core of gamers that would sacrifice the convenience of multi-purpose devices in order to get the best gameplay experience. But it really isn't a big audience.



    It is, however, a very vocal and very demanding audience. And Sony has damaged itself by paying way too much attention to it.



    C.
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