What a retard! I can't believe America is no.1 economy while it looks dumbies like this guy are multiplying here.
My house window glass broke after my neighbour's kid accidently kicked the ball in it. I am gonna class action sue window maker because when I had the old window it did not break after I kicked the ball few yeara ago.
What a moron, OMG.
I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.
Did the guy read somewhere that the materials used to make the phone's front and back panels were indestructible? Just because it's made better and harder doesn't mean you can go around dropping it on cocrete and tile surfaces without consequences.
According to the SCAA, the optimal water temperature for coffee is 92 - 96C (197.6 - 204.8F) for 90% of the contact time.
who cares? The suit wasn't about good tasting coffee. She didn't sue because she believed some claim that McDonalds has awesome tasting coffee but in truth it tastes like crap.
She sued because throat possibly awesome tasting coffee was hot enough to scald human flesh.
It takes less than five seconds for a mid aged adult to have third degree burns from water temps of 150F or higher. Children and the elderly (such as the lady suing) have more fragile skin and it can taken as little as half a second.
McDonalds was brewing and keeping their coffee well above 150. Even if she had not spilled it, she could have severely burned her mouth and esophagus just drinking it. Making how great it tastes a moot point because she likely wouldn't be drinking or eating anything for a while
Fact is that nothing anyone says can justify and restaurant from knowingly serving a drink that is hazardous to consume normally, much less if you spill it on yourself. There were something like 700 other claims over McDonalds coffee temps, including a case with a rep from McDonalds basically saying, under oath, he knew the coffee was too hot but didn't care about the risks.
210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)
Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.
That is why he explained the post brew chamber temps. Large commercial brewers are using pounds of coffee per brew. The ground coffee is at room temperature so as soon as the water hits the coffee it drops several degrees because it is slowly spraying into the chamber.
Quote:
If you happen to get a cup that has been poured from a just brewed pot then 190 or so is what the temp will be. McDonald's doesn't tell the franchisee how hot to hold coffee at, the local board of health does and the rules vary by location. Of the locations/standards I have seen it appears that somewhere between 130-140 is the desired temp.
190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.
Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.
1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.
2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.
190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.
Again I am simply refuting your assertion that the original poster did not know what he was talking about. I believe he is in the coffee business based on his remarks. Most people in the US put cold milk into their coffee so 160 F is about as low as you would want to keep it. His remarks about 130 F were not recommendations but instead pointing out how much discrepancy there is in local health department requirements.
1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.
2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.
Wow I can't believe how intolerant people using this forum are and how quick they are to pass judgement. Are you really that blinded by your devotion to all things Apple that you can't see any merit in this guy's complaint. Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed. I have seen tons of shattered screens at the Apple Store and most of the time they have come from drops of less than a few feet. A fall from your hand to the granite countertop can kill a phone if it hits at the right angle.
Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.
Otherwise, I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of doing so. You rattled off a whole list of variables that affect coffee brewing, and there are even more factors, yet your sticking to the SCAA's "one temp fits all" strategy, and trying to claim that the OPs numbers are from the SCAA when they clearly are not.
About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.
That is your opinion, however the argument is not how good someone's coffee is. It is about how hot it is. There are many factors involved with the quality of coffee - origin, storage, roasting, age, brewing, etc. The commercial coffee business is usually a balance of those factors. You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.
In States with no helmet laws, many people ride their motorcycles with their heads left unprotected. In most States, however, the overall societal cost of a no-helmet-accident is recognized, and helmets are required. With the iPhone, whether cases came with them or not, many people would choose not to use them. (If cases came with the phone, many of those simply would be wasted.) That's the owner's right. Their choice doesn't impose the kind of cost on society that exists in the helmet scenario, and so we don't have laws requiring people to use cases on their phones.
To my way of thinking, it makes perfect sense to protect my iPhone. I buy a phone. I buy a case. You, on the other hand, may not want to use a case, so you buy just a phone. If you drop it, you're at greater risk of damaging your phone than I am.
And that, it seems to me, is exactly how things on Planet Apple should be.
I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.
Where did Apple claim that you could drop it without damaging it?
What Apple said is that the glass is stronger than plastic - and it is. So what LEGAL BASIS is there for suing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originaldub
Wow I can't believe how intolerant people using this forum are and how quick they are to pass judgement. Are you really that blinded by your devotion to all things Apple that you can't see any merit in this guy's complaint. Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed. I have seen tons of shattered screens at the Apple Store and most of the time they have come from drops of less than a few feet. A fall from your hand to the granite countertop can kill a phone if it hits at the right angle.
Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
What's your point? The iPhone IS durable. That's not the same as indestructible. You seem to have the two concepts confused.
If you can show me where Apple advertised that you could drop the phone on a hard surface without damage, you might have a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra
Hey I spilled a beer all over my iMac's keyboard and now some of the keys don't work.
I think I'll sue Apple.
Not at all. Sue the company that makes the beer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2
What I find so sad about this thread is the banal "Apple is perfect" meme that runs through it blindly. I dropped my iPhone 3G when getting into a taxi, it dropped about a foot but has a nasty scratch on the plastic back now. But nothing shattered because plastic absorbs shocks. If it had been 20 times harder, it would probably have shattered too. Hard things have no 'give' in them.
I'm waiting for Apple to bring out iPhone 5 (without a glass back) before upgrading because I have dropped every phone I ever bought and making a phone out of glass is just plain asking for trouble. But I won't sue anybody because of it though! Not buying a device where 1 in 7 break is good enough sense to me.
There's this thing called a 'case'.
If you don't want a glass phone, no one is making you buy one. But stop whining when you finally learn that glass breaks.
... You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.
You are incorrect. However, I haven't claimed to be an "expert", just pointed out that the OPs numbers were nonsense, which they are, and not at all in line with the SCAA's recommendations, despite your assertions that they were. And the SCAA's recommendations are not, in my opinion, worth much, except perhaps as a starting point. But, feel free to brew your coffee at 210F, if you like.
Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed.
It's flawed because people are klutzes?
I have never dropped an iPod, current or previous phones I have ever owned in such a way that they could have broken. Yup, accidents can happen but they are just that - accidents, not flawed designs!
If you are so careless in the handling of your equipment that you are dropping things or having them slide off of tables and some of the other amazing stuff I have seen in this thread then go to a site like squaretrade.com and get a replacement warranty.
Or don't buy an iPhone.
The iPhone 4 is perfect. It's small enough it easily slips into my pocket - which is why I don't need a case or to worry about leaving it on a table, the roof of my car or the backseat of a cab
I'd hate to see Apple have to change the design of the iPhone to some other material that won't allow the design to be as compact because there are enough irresponsible klutzs out there to pretty much force them to change it
The amount of excuses and denial of basic personal responsibility are just staggering to me - our society simply will not be able to continue to function unless people get more realistic.
210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)
see my posts above.
brew temp and drinking temp are completely different things. brewing coffee @ 140 F simply wont work. and since optimal cup temp is around 185 F, why should a vendor have to pre-cool coffee for the off-user that wants it lukewarm? they can put the cup in their cup holder and let it cool, MUCH more intelligent than putting it between your legs and removing the lid.
just because i like my pizza cold, does that mean pizzerias have to stop serving hot pizza??
Courts in the US already award costs to the winners of lawsuits.
Not always, and rarely in BS cases like this.
Quote:
It's a great way to dissuade people without a lot of money from filing lawsuits.
At this point, that is definitely the lesser of two evils.
Fine - cap the amount Lawyers can make on "fishing expedition" lawsuits like this one and ensure that the bulk of the award has to go to the litigants and not the attorneys.
I imagine that will be just as popular with lawyers and their lobbyist (basically most of congress being fellow lawyers) as looser pays
Comments
What a retard! I can't believe America is no.1 economy while it looks dumbies like this guy are multiplying here.
My house window glass broke after my neighbour's kid accidently kicked the ball in it. I am gonna class action sue window maker because when I had the old window it did not break after I kicked the ball few yeara ago.
What a moron, OMG.
I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.
Mine is in a case
According to the SCAA, the optimal water temperature for coffee is 92 - 96C (197.6 - 204.8F) for 90% of the contact time.
who cares? The suit wasn't about good tasting coffee. She didn't sue because she believed some claim that McDonalds has awesome tasting coffee but in truth it tastes like crap.
She sued because throat possibly awesome tasting coffee was hot enough to scald human flesh.
It takes less than five seconds for a mid aged adult to have third degree burns from water temps of 150F or higher. Children and the elderly (such as the lady suing) have more fragile skin and it can taken as little as half a second.
McDonalds was brewing and keeping their coffee well above 150. Even if she had not spilled it, she could have severely burned her mouth and esophagus just drinking it. Making how great it tastes a moot point because she likely wouldn't be drinking or eating anything for a while
Fact is that nothing anyone says can justify and restaurant from knowingly serving a drink that is hazardous to consume normally, much less if you spill it on yourself. There were something like 700 other claims over McDonalds coffee temps, including a case with a rep from McDonalds basically saying, under oath, he knew the coffee was too hot but didn't care about the risks.
210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)
Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.
That is why he explained the post brew chamber temps. Large commercial brewers are using pounds of coffee per brew. The ground coffee is at room temperature so as soon as the water hits the coffee it drops several degrees because it is slowly spraying into the chamber.
If you happen to get a cup that has been poured from a just brewed pot then 190 or so is what the temp will be. McDonald's doesn't tell the franchisee how hot to hold coffee at, the local board of health does and the rules vary by location. Of the locations/standards I have seen it appears that somewhere between 130-140 is the desired temp.
190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.
Again we are talking about commercial brewing equipment not home brewing. The ideal temperature has more to do with the size of the grind and the type of grinder as well as the make up of soluble acids etc. The recommended temperatures are an average but can be adjusted to suit a given circumstance. The content of the original poster's comments was to point out that coffee served in restaurants is can be hot. The one additional point I would like to make as a tip for people buying or serving coffee is this: Never let the server hand you a cup of hot coffee. Make them put it on the counter and then pick it up. You never know how clumsy or distracted the other person might be and that hand to hand exchange is where most coffee spill accidents happen.
1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.
2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.
190F is also way too hot for most people to drink, and kept at that temperature, the flavor will degrade rapidly. And 130-140 will actually seem tepid to most people.
Again I am simply refuting your assertion that the original poster did not know what he was talking about. I believe he is in the coffee business based on his remarks. Most people in the US put cold milk into their coffee so 160 F is about as low as you would want to keep it. His remarks about 130 F were not recommendations but instead pointing out how much discrepancy there is in local health department requirements.
1. I don't think the OPs numbers line up at all with the SCAA recommendations.
2. The SCAA recommendations are pretty much useless due to the factors outline above by you, and differences in brewing methods. And, there are huge differences in "commercial brewing equipment". So exactly what equipment is it that they are referring to, large urn brewers? Single pot brewers? Airpot brewers? Something else? I really wouldn't pay that much attention to the SCAA, most of their commercial members serve horrible coffee.
You are misinformed.
Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
No other phones did this in the past.
No other phone was touchscreen "in the past".
...obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life...
Sure, just not something as important as my phone.
But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
Is something as crucial as a connection to the outside world supposed to be treated like a basketball?
You are misinformed.
About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.
Otherwise, I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of doing so. You rattled off a whole list of variables that affect coffee brewing, and there are even more factors, yet your sticking to the SCAA's "one temp fits all" strategy, and trying to claim that the OPs numbers are from the SCAA when they clearly are not.
Flash is dead, get over it.
About what, that the coffee from most commercial SCAA members sucks? It does.
That is your opinion, however the argument is not how good someone's coffee is. It is about how hot it is. There are many factors involved with the quality of coffee - origin, storage, roasting, age, brewing, etc. The commercial coffee business is usually a balance of those factors. You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.
To my way of thinking, it makes perfect sense to protect my iPhone. I buy a phone. I buy a case. You, on the other hand, may not want to use a case, so you buy just a phone. If you drop it, you're at greater risk of damaging your phone than I am.
And that, it seems to me, is exactly how things on Planet Apple should be.
I have an iPhone 4 and I love it. But, you should be honest, and this guy has a point. This phone is supposed to be capable of falling and not breaking, it's one of the salespoints. Gorilla glass, Combat helicopters and stuff, you remember? If that glass "designed to take a rocket and not break" can be killed by a little girl, MAYBE it has a little issue.
Where did Apple claim that you could drop it without damaging it?
What Apple said is that the glass is stronger than plastic - and it is. So what LEGAL BASIS is there for suing?
Wow I can't believe how intolerant people using this forum are and how quick they are to pass judgement. Are you really that blinded by your devotion to all things Apple that you can't see any merit in this guy's complaint. Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed. I have seen tons of shattered screens at the Apple Store and most of the time they have come from drops of less than a few feet. A fall from your hand to the granite countertop can kill a phone if it hits at the right angle.
Not to drone on but phones drop, they fall out of pockets, slip out of jackets etc. they shouldn't be rendered useless because you have a shattered screen. No other phones did this in the past. I know all you guys out there that have been writing your witty little comments will jump all over this because you are obviously so perfect that you have never dropped anything in your life. But think about it, is a phone supposed to be a delicate device that can't withstand any abuse?
What's your point? The iPhone IS durable. That's not the same as indestructible. You seem to have the two concepts confused.
If you can show me where Apple advertised that you could drop the phone on a hard surface without damage, you might have a point.
Hey I spilled a beer all over my iMac's keyboard and now some of the keys don't work.
I think I'll sue Apple.
Not at all. Sue the company that makes the beer.
What I find so sad about this thread is the banal "Apple is perfect" meme that runs through it blindly. I dropped my iPhone 3G when getting into a taxi, it dropped about a foot but has a nasty scratch on the plastic back now. But nothing shattered because plastic absorbs shocks. If it had been 20 times harder, it would probably have shattered too. Hard things have no 'give' in them.
I'm waiting for Apple to bring out iPhone 5 (without a glass back) before upgrading because I have dropped every phone I ever bought and making a phone out of glass is just plain asking for trouble. But I won't sue anybody because of it though! Not buying a device where 1 in 7 break is good enough sense to me.
There's this thing called a 'case'.
If you don't want a glass phone, no one is making you buy one. But stop whining when you finally learn that glass breaks.
If Apple actually claims this, then they are in trouble.
The only thing in trouble is the survivability of our society in the face of rampant stupidity!
... You, claiming to be an expert in coffee is a little amusing to me, since you clearly have little to no training in actual coffee business.
You are incorrect. However, I haven't claimed to be an "expert", just pointed out that the OPs numbers were nonsense, which they are, and not at all in line with the SCAA's recommendations, despite your assertions that they were. And the SCAA's recommendations are not, in my opinion, worth much, except perhaps as a starting point. But, feel free to brew your coffee at 210F, if you like.
Phones are meant to be highly portable and should be durable. Considering how much time a phone is in our hands on on our person it would stand to reason that there is a greater chance of a phone being dropped. The design of the IP4 is really great however the choice of glass is as a backing material is flawed.
It's flawed because people are klutzes?
I have never dropped an iPod, current or previous phones I have ever owned in such a way that they could have broken. Yup, accidents can happen but they are just that - accidents, not flawed designs!
If you are so careless in the handling of your equipment that you are dropping things or having them slide off of tables and some of the other amazing stuff I have seen in this thread then go to a site like squaretrade.com and get a replacement warranty.
Or don't buy an iPhone.
The iPhone 4 is perfect. It's small enough it easily slips into my pocket - which is why I don't need a case or to worry about leaving it on a table, the roof of my car or the backseat of a cab
I'd hate to see Apple have to change the design of the iPhone to some other material that won't allow the design to be as compact because there are enough irresponsible klutzs out there to pretty much force them to change it
The amount of excuses and denial of basic personal responsibility are just staggering to me - our society simply will not be able to continue to function unless people get more realistic.
210F is simply way too hot for any method of brewing or type of brewer, and it's also way beyond the SCAA's recommendations. (Which are a little misleading, anyway, since they don't account for differences inherent in brewing methods. For example, most people prefer to use a water temperature considerably below the SCAA's recommendations when using an AeroPress.)
see my posts above.
brew temp and drinking temp are completely different things. brewing coffee @ 140 F simply wont work. and since optimal cup temp is around 185 F, why should a vendor have to pre-cool coffee for the off-user that wants it lukewarm? they can put the cup in their cup holder and let it cool, MUCH more intelligent than putting it between your legs and removing the lid.
just because i like my pizza cold, does that mean pizzerias have to stop serving hot pizza??
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=179
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...&postcount=180
Courts in the US already award costs to the winners of lawsuits.
Not always, and rarely in BS cases like this.
It's a great way to dissuade people without a lot of money from filing lawsuits.
At this point, that is definitely the lesser of two evils.
Fine - cap the amount Lawyers can make on "fishing expedition" lawsuits like this one and ensure that the bulk of the award has to go to the litigants and not the attorneys.
I imagine that will be just as popular with lawyers and their lobbyist (basically most of congress being fellow lawyers) as looser pays