If they forced partners (ie, carriers/retailers) to buy inventory, then there may be some legal improprieties there. But otherwise, a sale is a sale. MS and Samsung don't sell direct to consumers (for the most part). Their customers are their retailers, so yes, a sale is a sale when the inventory is transferred to the carrier or retail partner.
ah, a gigantic feast of crow is being served on the internets today. preceeded by a first course of egg on the face. and topped off with a heaping bowl of claim chowder.
do you think all the bloggers, pundits, and "analysts" will finally learn the difference between "shipped" and "sold" once and for all this time??
"The Samsung Galaxy Tab was the main driver of Android success,? reported Neil Mawston, a director at Strategy Analytics. His firm contrasted Apple's sales of more than 7.33 million iPads against collective Android shipments that had reportedly jumped from just 100,000 in the previous quarter to 2.3 million in the winter quarter.
Why all the noise about Galaxy Tab when it couldn't compete.
Jobs was right about problems with the form factor.
Of course he was right. Apple may not admit to it, but I doubt very much they make these types of far-reaching decisions without some serious external (consumer) input.
It can't be assumed that this is channel stuffing. There could have been real expectations that both WP7 and the Galaxy Tab would have sold close to those numbers, even though it didn't work out.
Channel stuffing is when a company puts more product into the channel than they KNOW they will sell just to make the financials. We would have to see evidence of that. It's a serious misjudgment, because it is illegal to report stuffing as income for the quarter.
This is exuberant predictions that never panned out and thus resulting in perceived Channeling Stuffing.
What was Samsung thinking? How on earth did they imagine that is was going to work for them to make a big deal of millions of "sales" and then admit that sales are "quite small"?
In all fairness to Samsung, they could have assumed all the orders coming in would lead to actual sales. A lot of companies forecast sales based on distribution levels. Apparently, it didn't work in their favor, now they're stuck with a huge channel of inventory after everyone showed off competing warez at CES. The only thing they may have going for them, is that a lot of those new devices aren't expected to be out until this summer.
Yep. One way or another, they will sell / dump these units at fire-sale prices just to unload them and somehow claim that all their Android tablets are sold-out. \
haha sold out, and in what numbers! think of the market share android will have when they're forced to dump all this excess inventory.
I happened to be in an Office Depot the other day waiting on some printing work, and noticed a Galaxy display, so thought I'd play for a minute. A minute was all it took to walk away in aggravation. The touch and slide interface on that thing is horrible to say the least. I had to tap things 3 and 4 times to select. And the sliding with your fingertip was choppy and almost unusable.
No wonder this POS went down in flames. You don't realize the elegance of the iPad/iPhone until you use something like this. I love Samsung LCD's. They should be ashamed to disgrace their branding with this hunk of dung.
It can't be assumed that this is channel stuffing. There could have been real expectations that both WP7 and the Galaxy Tab would have sold close to those numbers, even though it didn't work out.
Channel stuffing is when a company puts more product into the channel than they KNOW they will sell just to make the financials. We would have to see evidence of that. It's a serious misjudgment, because it is illegal to report stuffing as income for the quarter.
Remember Palm? They were reporting good sell-in numbers (did not specify how much Pre though) and then dropped to almost nothing? They managed to keep the illusion for two earnings reports, and then... As far as I remember, their shares dropped from $18 to $4 in a week or so.
Remember Zune? Microsoft promised to sell one million units during the first year, ending in the summer. Many "journalists" tried hard to make people feel this is a huge number, although Apple was selling an order of magnitude more - every quarter. Then Microsoft reported that they met their target almost a month early, in June. But those were "sold-in", not "sold-out". In December you could buy those 1st gen Zunes with 50% to 70% discount. You know how the Zune story ends.
Back to now. It will be easier to paint the Galaxy Tap sales dropping to zero as a result of new Android tablets coming to the market. But this won't be the whole story. And we will never know the truth.
I happened to be in an Office Depot the other day waiting on some printing work, and noticed a Galaxy display, so thought I'd play for a minute. A minute was all it took to walk away in aggravation. The touch and slide interface on that thing is horrible to say the least. I had to tap things 3 and 4 times to select. And the sliding with your fingertip was choppy and almost unusable.
No wonder this POS went down in flames. You don't realize the elegance of the iPad/iPhone until you use something like this. I love Samsung LCD's. They should be ashamed to disgrace their branding with this hunk of dung.
This is precisely what the phandroids refuse to acknowledge. They will praise all the high-end hardware, but always gloss over the horrible gui experience in the name of "openness".
This is why (imho) the OS is as important - if not more - than the hardware. Sticking a turbocharged V8 into a Volkswagon bug is not the same thing as that same motor in a Rolls Royce.
I'm a systems-engineer and been developing software for 20+ years. I find it absolutely shameful that people try to pass of badly written software in the name of some "higher calling". It's a curiosity just for tech-heads, nerds, and geeks that continuously believe that every user should be certified in computer science in order to use computers.
True, but it is clearly a misrepresentation of sales data. Samsung made it seem as though their product was actually selling to customers. Now they're stuck with a full channel and more than likely won't be able to "sell" as many in the following quarter. This is probably why they're warning investors of small actual sales numbers now. And the possibility of many left in the channel being dumped when newer Android tablets hit the market.
Samsung clearly stated "shipped" in its announcements. It's the media and bloggers, (especially the Apple haters salivating for some fodder) who publicized the figures as end-demand, as comparisons to iPad early days were made. However, iPad took couple months to make it beyond US Apple & BBY stores, and even then it was several more months before any storefront could hold stock for more than a day. Took Apple 9 months to roll out to 40 countries, opposed to Samsung taking only couple months to hit ~100 countries/~200 carriers. They are sold virtually everywhere. In order to cover handful of units in every storefront would easily take 2M units.
I would be very surprised if Samsung shipped more than 500k more. Really even 1K more (for refill). It's done. Holidays are over and new tablets on the way. The Galaxy Tab is a way overpriced piece of junk relatively speaking. Carriers/Resellers had huge desire to have a tablet product on the shelves for the holidays and Samsung was the only one that could deliver.
Judging by how many of these devices are on ebay (in the UK at least) at below retail pricing, suggests that many people have bought these (or got them as xmas presents) and are disappointed with them.
To be fair, it is difficult for Samsung to state exact sales as they follow the standard manufacturer -> wholesale -> retail route whereas Apple has direct relationships with all retailers and also picks up activation stats via iTunes.
The other angle is that it is currently Apple versus all others, and there is no consistency with the all others. Some of the others are Windoze 7 based whilst others are Android 2.x and some (coming soon) ones will be Android 3.0.
The Android ones (and to some extend Windoze ones) have some level of UI tweaking done by the manufacturers and there is no way of knowing whether the Apps in the various stores will actually work with these devices.
However, there are some silver linings in all of this, as some of the competition (I'm likely to get flamed at this point), do have some good points which Apple may view and come up with their interpretations.
For example, the App switching / multi-tasking on some is more slick than iOS, and more UI customisations to make things how you want.
We know that iPad 2 will bring new hardware features, but the big unanswered question is; where is iOS going, especially with 5.x.
I hope for;
1. Being able to slightly resize and adjust spacing of app icons (especially on iPad) to allow for more icons per screen.
2. Double clicking the home button to get the App switching brings up a folders type display but with scrolling so that you can see more background apps at the same time.
3. Background apps to have some processor cycles (maybe 2%) allocated to them whilst in background so that they don't take as long to wake. Once the App Switcher is activated, this percentage could increase to say 15%.
4. A simple and quick way to switch the various radios (Wireless, 3G, Bluetooth) on and off as required, and to adjust brightness / volume.
But... but... Apple's all closed and egotistical and these guys are all about openness! And people are tired of Steve Jobs 'telling them what to buy'! TIRED of it!
Comments
If they forced partners (ie, carriers/retailers) to buy inventory, then there may be some legal improprieties there. But otherwise, a sale is a sale. MS and Samsung don't sell direct to consumers (for the most part). Their customers are their retailers, so yes, a sale is a sale when the inventory is transferred to the carrier or retail partner.
This is not always the case.
Somehow, I knew.
I feel vindicated..... (in case you're wondering, from earlier today: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...37#post1796937)
do you think all the bloggers, pundits, and "analysts" will finally learn the difference between "shipped" and "sold" once and for all this time??
"The Samsung Galaxy Tab was the main driver of Android success,? reported Neil Mawston, a director at Strategy Analytics. His firm contrasted Apple's sales of more than 7.33 million iPads against collective Android shipments that had reportedly jumped from just 100,000 in the previous quarter to 2.3 million in the winter quarter.
Nice career move, Mr. Mawtson!
Why all the noise about Galaxy Tab when it couldn't compete.
Jobs was right about problems with the form factor.
Of course he was right. Apple may not admit to it, but I doubt very much they make these types of far-reaching decisions without some serious external (consumer) input.
It can't be assumed that this is channel stuffing. There could have been real expectations that both WP7 and the Galaxy Tab would have sold close to those numbers, even though it didn't work out.
Channel stuffing is when a company puts more product into the channel than they KNOW they will sell just to make the financials. We would have to see evidence of that. It's a serious misjudgment, because it is illegal to report stuffing as income for the quarter.
This is exuberant predictions that never panned out and thus resulting in perceived Channeling Stuffing.
The sales werent the only thing that was small, the screens on those things are pathetic.
What specifically about the screens was pathetic? They seemed like pretty decent screens, so I'd like more information on why you didn't like them.
What was Samsung thinking? How on earth did they imagine that is was going to work for them to make a big deal of millions of "sales" and then admit that sales are "quite small"?
In all fairness to Samsung, they could have assumed all the orders coming in would lead to actual sales. A lot of companies forecast sales based on distribution levels. Apparently, it didn't work in their favor, now they're stuck with a huge channel of inventory after everyone showed off competing warez at CES. The only thing they may have going for them, is that a lot of those new devices aren't expected to be out until this summer.
Yep. One way or another, they will sell / dump these units at fire-sale prices just to unload them and somehow claim that all their Android tablets are sold-out.
haha sold out, and in what numbers! think of the market share android will have when they're forced to dump all this excess inventory.
What specifically about the screens was pathetic? They seemed like pretty decent screens, so I'd like more information on why you didn't like them.
just a hunch, but i think he was going for small...
What specifically about the screens was pathetic? They seemed like pretty decent screens, so I'd like more information on why you didn't like them.
I think he just meant that they are small.
No wonder this POS went down in flames. You don't realize the elegance of the iPad/iPhone until you use something like this. I love Samsung LCD's. They should be ashamed to disgrace their branding with this hunk of dung.
Somehow, I knew.
I feel vindicated..... (in case you're wondering, from earlier today: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...37#post1796937)
Myself and few others (maybe you included) were calling bs on Samsung's GT sales figures back on November 22.
So... yes... vindication feels good.
It can't be assumed that this is channel stuffing. There could have been real expectations that both WP7 and the Galaxy Tab would have sold close to those numbers, even though it didn't work out.
Channel stuffing is when a company puts more product into the channel than they KNOW they will sell just to make the financials. We would have to see evidence of that. It's a serious misjudgment, because it is illegal to report stuffing as income for the quarter.
Remember Palm? They were reporting good sell-in numbers (did not specify how much Pre though) and then dropped to almost nothing? They managed to keep the illusion for two earnings reports, and then... As far as I remember, their shares dropped from $18 to $4 in a week or so.
Remember Zune? Microsoft promised to sell one million units during the first year, ending in the summer. Many "journalists" tried hard to make people feel this is a huge number, although Apple was selling an order of magnitude more - every quarter. Then Microsoft reported that they met their target almost a month early, in June. But those were "sold-in", not "sold-out". In December you could buy those 1st gen Zunes with 50% to 70% discount. You know how the Zune story ends.
Back to now. It will be easier to paint the Galaxy Tap sales dropping to zero as a result of new Android tablets coming to the market. But this won't be the whole story. And we will never know the truth.
I happened to be in an Office Depot the other day waiting on some printing work, and noticed a Galaxy display, so thought I'd play for a minute. A minute was all it took to walk away in aggravation. The touch and slide interface on that thing is horrible to say the least. I had to tap things 3 and 4 times to select. And the sliding with your fingertip was choppy and almost unusable.
No wonder this POS went down in flames. You don't realize the elegance of the iPad/iPhone until you use something like this. I love Samsung LCD's. They should be ashamed to disgrace their branding with this hunk of dung.
This is precisely what the phandroids refuse to acknowledge. They will praise all the high-end hardware, but always gloss over the horrible gui experience in the name of "openness".
This is why (imho) the OS is as important - if not more - than the hardware. Sticking a turbocharged V8 into a Volkswagon bug is not the same thing as that same motor in a Rolls Royce.
I'm a systems-engineer and been developing software for 20+ years. I find it absolutely shameful that people try to pass of badly written software in the name of some "higher calling". It's a curiosity just for tech-heads, nerds, and geeks that continuously believe that every user should be certified in computer science in order to use computers.
True, but it is clearly a misrepresentation of sales data. Samsung made it seem as though their product was actually selling to customers. Now they're stuck with a full channel and more than likely won't be able to "sell" as many in the following quarter. This is probably why they're warning investors of small actual sales numbers now. And the possibility of many left in the channel being dumped when newer Android tablets hit the market.
Samsung clearly stated "shipped" in its announcements. It's the media and bloggers, (especially the Apple haters salivating for some fodder) who publicized the figures as end-demand, as comparisons to iPad early days were made. However, iPad took couple months to make it beyond US Apple & BBY stores, and even then it was several more months before any storefront could hold stock for more than a day. Took Apple 9 months to roll out to 40 countries, opposed to Samsung taking only couple months to hit ~100 countries/~200 carriers. They are sold virtually everywhere. In order to cover handful of units in every storefront would easily take 2M units.
I would be very surprised if Samsung shipped more than 500k more. Really even 1K more (for refill). It's done. Holidays are over and new tablets on the way. The Galaxy Tab is a way overpriced piece of junk relatively speaking. Carriers/Resellers had huge desire to have a tablet product on the shelves for the holidays and Samsung was the only one that could deliver.
To be fair, it is difficult for Samsung to state exact sales as they follow the standard manufacturer -> wholesale -> retail route whereas Apple has direct relationships with all retailers and also picks up activation stats via iTunes.
The other angle is that it is currently Apple versus all others, and there is no consistency with the all others. Some of the others are Windoze 7 based whilst others are Android 2.x and some (coming soon) ones will be Android 3.0.
The Android ones (and to some extend Windoze ones) have some level of UI tweaking done by the manufacturers and there is no way of knowing whether the Apps in the various stores will actually work with these devices.
However, there are some silver linings in all of this, as some of the competition (I'm likely to get flamed at this point), do have some good points which Apple may view and come up with their interpretations.
For example, the App switching / multi-tasking on some is more slick than iOS, and more UI customisations to make things how you want.
We know that iPad 2 will bring new hardware features, but the big unanswered question is; where is iOS going, especially with 5.x.
I hope for;
1. Being able to slightly resize and adjust spacing of app icons (especially on iPad) to allow for more icons per screen.
2. Double clicking the home button to get the App switching brings up a folders type display but with scrolling so that you can see more background apps at the same time.
3. Background apps to have some processor cycles (maybe 2%) allocated to them whilst in background so that they don't take as long to wake. Once the App Switcher is activated, this percentage could increase to say 15%.
4. A simple and quick way to switch the various radios (Wireless, 3G, Bluetooth) on and off as required, and to adjust brightness / volume.
5. Better alerts and notifications.
Phil
My Wife, my dog and I have 3 each...
LOL Yeah I remember Daharder said that. Does he show up here anymore? I know he's very active on Engadget saying the same BS!
I knew all along it was just channel stuffing. I can't stop laughing at them.
I won't say it...
But... but... Apple's all closed and egotistical and these guys are all about openness! And people are tired of Steve Jobs 'telling them what to buy'! TIRED of it!
Well! I am just shocked.