Part of the reason that MS can't put it together is the result of the anti-trust case and the consent decree. Integration decisions are reviewed to see if they violate the agreement.
For example, Apple has iTunes built into the OS, MS probably could not put Zune Marketplace into the OS, as that probably would not pass muster with the reviewers, and so it is an extra download. Same with MobileMe vs. Live Essentials.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the consent decree ends in May, and MS is relatively free to do what it wishes. Has a decade of constraint and walling off of divisions really hurt them or will there be a change.
Have you got some links to that info?
I've always had the idea that the entire anti-trust case around IE was just because the regulators couldn't bust Microsoft for the actual dodgy stuff they were doing (threatening OEM's that attempted to include non-Microsoft software with being cut-off from future Windows licenses and the like).
With the mobile market booming (did I read that smart phones outsold PCs this quarter?) I'd find it hard to imagine Microsoft being pulled before the courts again regardless of how much they integrated different systems and locked out competitors (unless they started threatening OEM's again of course! )
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
You obviously have little clue about Finnish pride and the Finnish sense of nationalism.... No, Nokia will not be sold to anyone. Ever.
I'm tempted to say something along the lines of why do you need Nokia when you have Ikea and Volvo with the follow up line it's basically the same!... but I've made that joke before... and the Finnish girl I made it to didn't think I was funny...
Back on topic... I'd hate to be running Nokia at the moment. They must be pulling their hair out trying to decide if they should go with Meego, WP7 or Android .
They can control Meego and it looks great in theory... but it's missing the entire eco-system, is late and they would have to pour a stack of Money into it.
Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market - probably even the best mobile phone OS sans a stack of feature tick box updates... but Microsoft lack a full mobile platform (i.e. something that can actually compete with the iPad is 18 months away - at least) so as great as WP7 is, it's only half of a mobile solution.
And then there is an Android which will offer a full mobile solution (at some point) however that would turn Nokia into just another low margin hardware vendor.
Actually another option is probably an Android fork. They get some of the benefits of the Android platform but still differentiate themselves. There is a lot of work to that option though, probably as much as going with Meego.
I'm tempted to say something along the lines of why do you need Nokia when you have Ikea and Volvo with the follow up line it's basically the same!... but I've made that joke before... and the Finnish girl I made it to didn't think I was funny...
She probably did not think it was funny because she was a Finn and not a Swede. You didn't know that Ikea and Volvo are Swedish companies?
She probably did not think it was funny because she was a Finn and not a Swede. You didn't know that Ikea and Volvo are Swedish companies?
Ha, ha, ha! I think we can pretty much guess her thoughts regarding the speaker. Terrible accident for Kubica (and I hope he recovers quickly and fully), but it looks like Raikkonen is free to return to F1 if Renault can convince him to.
Ha, ha, ha! I think we can pretty much guess her thoughts regarding the speaker. Terrible accident for Kubica (and I hope he recovers quickly and fully), but it looks like Raikkonen is free to return to F1 if Renault can convince him to.
Kimi is having fun. The thing is he walked away on top just like Mika. Don't think he'll come back.
I find your comments racist and insulting and have made a formal complaint.
I suggest that you choose your words more wisely in future, that is, if you have not been banned.
Go to your local library and borrow a history book, have a read, heck, if that is too much for you, go to google and have a search, remember ignorance isn't a defence...
Go to your local library and borrow a history book, have a read, heck, if that is too much for you, go to google and have a search, remember ignorance isn't a defence...
You obviously have little clue about Finnish pride and the Finnish sense of nationalism. Nokia is FInland and Finland is Nokia. You haven't gotten the memo yet. The two are intertwined. You are talking about a country of around 5.5 million people who speak one of the most difficult languages in the world, who were kicking the shit out of the Russians until Sweden decided not to allow allied overflight rights, who have some of the best Formula One drivers in the world, ski jumpers, cross-country skiers, Lasse Viren, etc.... Finland lost part of Karelia in the war and they still cry about this during the Veterans Day celebrations. No, Nokia will not be sold to anyone. Ever.
I'm curious what your thoughts are about the Finnish reaction, should Elop indeed push them towards WinMo 7. Would that not be seen as the next worst thing to a buyout?
I think a Nokia/WP& tie-up might be a good move for both companies. MS, in particular, would be better-served by having a partner committed to its OS (rather than dabbling in multiple OSes). Nokia would have what appears to be a good OS (even if it needs some improvements) and, more importantly, a chance at a real ecosystem.
Got to agree with sapporobabyrtns - the Finns are unlikely to let what they consider a national treasure be bought outright by a foreign firm.
Back on topic... I'd hate to be running Nokia at the moment. They must be pulling their hair out trying to decide if they should go with Meego, WP7 or Android.
That's not a difficult choice at all. Meego isn't going anywhere. With Android Nokia would be going where everyone else has gone before. What would be the purpose of that?
Windows Phone by far has the most future potential.
Quote:
Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market - probably even the best mobile phone OS sans a stack of feature tick box updates... but Microsoft lack a full mobile platform (i.e. something that can actually compete with the iPad is 18 months away - at least) so as great as WP7 is, it's only half of a mobile solution.
WP 7 has room to grow and that's perfectly fine. Both Nokia and Windows need to grow a whole new platform from the ground up.
Quote:
And then there is an Android which will offer a full mobile solution (at some point) however that would turn Nokia into just another low margin hardware vendor.
Yes and Nokia would follow Motorola, HTC, Samsung, LG pumping out new commodity phones every couple of weeks in a race to the bottom.
Quote:
Actually another option is probably an Android fork. They get some of the benefits of the Android platform but still differentiate themselves. There is a lot of work to that option though, probably as much as going with Meego.
I've always had the idea that the entire anti-trust case around IE was just because the regulators couldn't bust Microsoft for the actual dodgy stuff they were doing (threatening OEM's that attempted to include non-Microsoft software with being cut-off from future Windows licenses and the like).
With the mobile market booming (did I read that smart phones outsold PCs this quarter?) I'd find it hard to imagine Microsoft being pulled before the courts again regardless of how much they integrated different systems and locked out competitors (unless they started threatening OEM's again of course! )
Of hand, I have no links, but it is easy enough to google. I am not so sure that they would get hauled into court, but they have had a decade of supervision regarding what they could and could not do, particularly in terms of what they could put in their OS. Heck, just look at the uproar that occurred when they released Security Essentials - all of the anti-virus companies pitched a fit.
This type of thing creates difficulties, and a possible mind set where integration is frowned upon, and each division runs as a separate mini-company. This makes full integration difficult, but we shall see.
I'm curious what your thoughts are about the Finnish reaction, should Elop indeed push them towards WinMo 7. Would that not be seen as the next worst thing to a buyout?
The response is wide and varying. I have a good friend (was my boss when I worked for a Finnish company here) who's wife works for Nokia. The memo is real. It was not a joke. Second, at different levels within some are happy and excited while others are nervous and finger biting. Guess which ones are going to keep and lose their jobs. My friend was saying that the biggest problem within Nokia is the combative culture. The biggest competition to the N-series phones came from the E-series teams. They did not focus on selling phones outside of the company as they did at trying to undermine each other products. In my opinion as an outsider living here, I can say that I think the Finnish gov't will try to step in and stop any sale of Nokia even if it meant buying enough shares of the company to make sure the Finns retained control. I just don't see Nokia going anywhere. It is too deeply engrained in the Finnish psyche, and globally synonymous with Finland. Finns are survivors and going to another OS might be distasteful but it came down to a choice between this and selling the company, WinMo7 or Android it is.
Of hand, I have no links, but it is easy enough to google. I am not so sure that they would get hauled into court, but they have had a decade of supervision regarding what they could and could not do, particularly in terms of what they could put in their OS. Heck, just look at the uproar that occurred when they released Security Essentials - all of the anti-virus companies pitched a fit.
This type of thing creates difficulties, and a possible mind set where integration is frowned upon, and each division runs as a separate mini-company. This makes full integration difficult, but we shall see.
I had a look around. The extensions were interesting. Has there been any hints of a further extension?
Just to clarify I wasn't disagreeing with you in my original comment. I meant that, with the way the mobile market it going, I can't see how Microsoft could be dragged back into the courts after the consent decree ends in May.
It would be a hard task for someone to stand in front of a judge and argue Microsoft is in a monopoly position at the moment.
Wow. A honeymoon here? That makes you an expert I guess. Can you see Russia from your porch? Get a clue before you spout off with non-sense. I live here in Finland, work with Finns, speak to them, and know the culture. When you can say the same, then I might listen to what you have to say. Until then: MEH !!!!
Go report that as well.
P.S. Still here by the way.....
Wow you certainly impress me with your articulated post.
Like I said you hate Russians, if so, go on another site, more political, this site is for tech stuff.
Why did you write about war/politics for ? What would it add to the gist of your post ? I know you have an agenda. You hate Russians.
What nationality are you ? You say you are not Finnish, so why the xenophobic rant ?
Comments
Part of the reason that MS can't put it together is the result of the anti-trust case and the consent decree. Integration decisions are reviewed to see if they violate the agreement.
For example, Apple has iTunes built into the OS, MS probably could not put Zune Marketplace into the OS, as that probably would not pass muster with the reviewers, and so it is an extra download. Same with MobileMe vs. Live Essentials.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the consent decree ends in May, and MS is relatively free to do what it wishes. Has a decade of constraint and walling off of divisions really hurt them or will there be a change.
Have you got some links to that info?
I've always had the idea that the entire anti-trust case around IE was just because the regulators couldn't bust Microsoft for the actual dodgy stuff they were doing (threatening OEM's that attempted to include non-Microsoft software with being cut-off from future Windows licenses and the like).
With the mobile market booming (did I read that smart phones outsold PCs this quarter?) I'd find it hard to imagine Microsoft being pulled before the courts again regardless of how much they integrated different systems and locked out competitors (unless they started threatening OEM's again of course!
You obviously have little clue about Finnish pride and the Finnish sense of nationalism.... No, Nokia will not be sold to anyone. Ever.
I'm tempted to say something along the lines of why do you need Nokia when you have Ikea and Volvo with the follow up line it's basically the same!... but I've made that joke before... and the Finnish girl I made it to didn't think I was funny...
They can control Meego and it looks great in theory... but it's missing the entire eco-system, is late and they would have to pour a stack of Money into it.
Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market - probably even the best mobile phone OS sans a stack of feature tick box updates... but Microsoft lack a full mobile platform (i.e. something that can actually compete with the iPad is 18 months away - at least) so as great as WP7 is, it's only half of a mobile solution.
And then there is an Android which will offer a full mobile solution (at some point) however that would turn Nokia into just another low margin hardware vendor.
Actually another option is probably an Android fork. They get some of the benefits of the Android platform but still differentiate themselves. There is a lot of work to that option though, probably as much as going with Meego.
EDIT: If this is true Nokia drops first MeeGo phone before launch it certainly lends weight to this article.
I'm tempted to say something along the lines of why do you need Nokia when you have Ikea and Volvo with the follow up line it's basically the same!... but I've made that joke before... and the Finnish girl I made it to didn't think I was funny...
She probably did not think it was funny because she was a Finn and not a Swede. You didn't know that Ikea and Volvo are Swedish companies?
She probably did not think it was funny because she was a Finn and not a Swede. You didn't know that Ikea and Volvo are Swedish companies?
Ha, ha, ha! I think we can pretty much guess her thoughts regarding the speaker. Terrible accident for Kubica (and I hope he recovers quickly and fully), but it looks like Raikkonen is free to return to F1 if Renault can convince him to.
Ha, ha, ha! I think we can pretty much guess her thoughts regarding the speaker. Terrible accident for Kubica (and I hope he recovers quickly and fully), but it looks like Raikkonen is free to return to F1 if Renault can convince him to.
Kimi is having fun. The thing is he walked away on top just like Mika. Don't think he'll come back.
I find your comments racist and insulting and have made a formal complaint.
I suggest that you choose your words more wisely in future, that is, if you have not been banned.
Go to your local library and borrow a history book, have a read, heck, if that is too much for you, go to google and have a search, remember ignorance isn't a defence...
Go to your local library and borrow a history book, have a read, heck, if that is too much for you, go to google and have a search, remember ignorance isn't a defence...
He clearly wasn't burdened with facts.
She probably did not think it was funny because she was a Finn and not a Swede. You didn't know that Ikea and Volvo are Swedish companies?
Of course I know... that was the joke!
I wish the rest of the world didn't take themselves so seriously sometimes
Ha, ha, ha! I think we can pretty much guess her thoughts regarding the speaker.
...and I'm sure your guess would be on trend for you as we ended up sorting out our differences out rather amorously.
You obviously have little clue about Finnish pride and the Finnish sense of nationalism. Nokia is FInland and Finland is Nokia. You haven't gotten the memo yet. The two are intertwined. You are talking about a country of around 5.5 million people who speak one of the most difficult languages in the world, who were kicking the shit out of the Russians until Sweden decided not to allow allied overflight rights, who have some of the best Formula One drivers in the world, ski jumpers, cross-country skiers, Lasse Viren, etc.... Finland lost part of Karelia in the war and they still cry about this during the Veterans Day celebrations. No, Nokia will not be sold to anyone. Ever.
I'm curious what your thoughts are about the Finnish reaction, should Elop indeed push them towards WinMo 7. Would that not be seen as the next worst thing to a buyout?
Got to agree with sapporobabyrtns - the Finns are unlikely to let what they consider a national treasure be bought outright by a foreign firm.
Tenobell, your last three posts are on the mark.
Instant path to riches and marketshare. Just add commodity hardware.
Back on topic... I'd hate to be running Nokia at the moment. They must be pulling their hair out trying to decide if they should go with Meego, WP7 or Android.
That's not a difficult choice at all. Meego isn't going anywhere. With Android Nokia would be going where everyone else has gone before. What would be the purpose of that?
Windows Phone by far has the most future potential.
Microsoft have created a class leading mobile paradigm and the best base for a mobile phone on the market - probably even the best mobile phone OS sans a stack of feature tick box updates... but Microsoft lack a full mobile platform (i.e. something that can actually compete with the iPad is 18 months away - at least) so as great as WP7 is, it's only half of a mobile solution.
WP 7 has room to grow and that's perfectly fine. Both Nokia and Windows need to grow a whole new platform from the ground up.
And then there is an Android which will offer a full mobile solution (at some point) however that would turn Nokia into just another low margin hardware vendor.
Yes and Nokia would follow Motorola, HTC, Samsung, LG pumping out new commodity phones every couple of weeks in a race to the bottom.
Actually another option is probably an Android fork. They get some of the benefits of the Android platform but still differentiate themselves. There is a lot of work to that option though, probably as much as going with Meego.
Nokia shouldn't bother with Android at all.
Have you got some links to that info?
I've always had the idea that the entire anti-trust case around IE was just because the regulators couldn't bust Microsoft for the actual dodgy stuff they were doing (threatening OEM's that attempted to include non-Microsoft software with being cut-off from future Windows licenses and the like).
With the mobile market booming (did I read that smart phones outsold PCs this quarter?) I'd find it hard to imagine Microsoft being pulled before the courts again regardless of how much they integrated different systems and locked out competitors (unless they started threatening OEM's again of course!
Of hand, I have no links, but it is easy enough to google. I am not so sure that they would get hauled into court, but they have had a decade of supervision regarding what they could and could not do, particularly in terms of what they could put in their OS. Heck, just look at the uproar that occurred when they released Security Essentials - all of the anti-virus companies pitched a fit.
This type of thing creates difficulties, and a possible mind set where integration is frowned upon, and each division runs as a separate mini-company. This makes full integration difficult, but we shall see.
I'm curious what your thoughts are about the Finnish reaction, should Elop indeed push them towards WinMo 7. Would that not be seen as the next worst thing to a buyout?
The response is wide and varying. I have a good friend (was my boss when I worked for a Finnish company here) who's wife works for Nokia. The memo is real. It was not a joke. Second, at different levels within some are happy and excited while others are nervous and finger biting. Guess which ones are going to keep and lose their jobs. My friend was saying that the biggest problem within Nokia is the combative culture. The biggest competition to the N-series phones came from the E-series teams. They did not focus on selling phones outside of the company as they did at trying to undermine each other products. In my opinion as an outsider living here, I can say that I think the Finnish gov't will try to step in and stop any sale of Nokia even if it meant buying enough shares of the company to make sure the Finns retained control. I just don't see Nokia going anywhere. It is too deeply engrained in the Finnish psyche, and globally synonymous with Finland. Finns are survivors and going to another OS might be distasteful but it came down to a choice between this and selling the company, WinMo7 or Android it is.
Of hand, I have no links, but it is easy enough to google. I am not so sure that they would get hauled into court, but they have had a decade of supervision regarding what they could and could not do, particularly in terms of what they could put in their OS. Heck, just look at the uproar that occurred when they released Security Essentials - all of the anti-virus companies pitched a fit.
This type of thing creates difficulties, and a possible mind set where integration is frowned upon, and each division runs as a separate mini-company. This makes full integration difficult, but we shall see.
I had a look around. The extensions were interesting. Has there been any hints of a further extension?
Just to clarify I wasn't disagreeing with you in my original comment. I meant that, with the way the mobile market it going, I can't see how Microsoft could be dragged back into the courts after the consent decree ends in May.
It would be a hard task for someone to stand in front of a judge and argue Microsoft is in a monopoly position at the moment.
Nothing that he said is racist. The Winter War is deeply ingrained in the Finnish psyche, especially for older generations.
Read his post again.
Okay, the Russians kicked the english buts in the Crimean war.
The Russians saved the Brits during the WWII.
Shall I go on ? Or do you selectively research history for the bits that satisfy your insane cravings for misinformation ?
Wow. A honeymoon here? That makes you an expert I guess. Can you see Russia from your porch? Get a clue before you spout off with non-sense. I live here in Finland, work with Finns, speak to them, and know the culture. When you can say the same, then I might listen to what you have to say. Until then: MEH !!!!
Go report that as well.
P.S. Still here by the way.....
Wow you certainly impress me with your articulated post.
Like I said you hate Russians, if so, go on another site, more political, this site is for tech stuff.
Why did you write about war/politics for ? What would it add to the gist of your post ? I know you have an agenda. You hate Russians.
What nationality are you ? You say you are not Finnish, so why the xenophobic rant ?