HP to take on with Apple with webOS-based TouchPad, Pre 3

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  • Reply 141 of 196
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The problem is that we really don't know what that web site is showing us.



    It's showing that if you look at market share across a longer span, you see that there isn't really much change.



    It's also not surprising that PC's are "stagnate" while Mac's are growing. The market is pretty saturated right now, just like cellphones. If you're buying a computer, it's typically replacing one you already have, not a brand new one. PC can't take much more of the market, and Mac can only go up. There are no other contenders currently (linux doesn't have any serious boxes shipping with it).



    the resession isn't the stumbling block you think it is either. People are still spending a TON of money on electronics, even as they cut back in other areas.
  • Reply 142 of 196
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post


    I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.



    I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.



    I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....



    I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.



    The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.



    But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.



    Good points, Jcoz. Please don't think I'm being elitist with this next remark. As pretty much everyone knows ~70% of the US economy is driven by the consumer. However, a less known fact is the top 10% of consumers drive ~50% of the economy. This is one of the reasons why Apple "owns" the $1,000+ laptop market.



    Having said this, I whole heartedly agree that bringing the iPad in at $499 was a real milestone for Apple. I too, thought it would be $999 when introduced. Good for Apple and it made the iPad more accessible to a wider range of consumers and certainly contributed to its remarkable success!



    Apple, similarly, albeit to a lesser degree got the pricing right for Snow Leopard at $29 instead of $129, dropping the price of the Nano to $149 and the new iLife '11 at $49.



    Best
  • Reply 143 of 196
    envirogenvirog Posts: 188member
    Would someone please turn off the faucet to all these copy cat devices, Please!!!
  • Reply 144 of 196
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post


    I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.



    I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.



    I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....



    I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.



    The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.



    But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.



    I'm going to agree with you on this. A five hundred dollar low-end iPad was a stroke of marketing genius. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that, if I were Apple, when I announced the iPad 2, I'd take the opportunity to drop the price to $400 for a low-end iPad 1.



    BTW, did anyone else note that the HP only has one camera? I believe the iPad 2 is predicted to have both front and back cameras. Methinks Apple surprised HP on this front....
  • Reply 145 of 196
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EnviroG View Post


    Would someone please turn off the faucet to all these copy cat devices, Please!!!



    ALL touchscreen based devices will look similar. They'll all be a large pane of glass with a bezel around it. This is a design requirement, not them trying to copy it.
  • Reply 146 of 196
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post


    I agree, and I also agree with and acknowledge what is an undeniable halo effect from other apple products leading people to macs.



    I also don't want to misrepresent the fact that I agree the new Macbook Air is a big step in the direction of actually getting the people I'm talking about closer to buying that first mac.



    I'm just saying that price is such a big big deal IMO in this segment. So much bigger than features and processors and storage capacity and ports.....



    I mean Apple coming in at $499 for the ipad was so big I can't stress it enough.



    The apple I've known and loved def. wouldn't have charged less than $999 for that device. And mac people would have still bought them up in bundles. Myself included.



    But the $499 ipad is another animal and opens apple up to people much different than mac users of the past IMO.



    iPad pricing is something that shocked a lot of people. Other manufacturers are still reeling from that. A lot of tablets that were announced, as well as several book readers, were never put out for sale. We see the Xoom coming in for $799 with 32GB flash. The one thing that's better on that is the higher resolution. The rest, Apple will have with the iPad2.



    The Touchpad doesn't do anything to improve upon the iPad2 that will be out. And if that has two cameras, as expected, then the Touchpad will have less. With a max of 32GB flash, it had better cost no more than Apple's 32GB model when it comes out, and that will be a hard sell, so it should cost less. But, can it? We see why other manufacturers like RIM and Samsung are going for 7" tablets. The Tab costs $599 for an unsubsidized model. That's a lot, and I think they're losing money on it, or, they're charging too much for it in Europe.
  • Reply 147 of 196
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    It's showing that if you look at market share across a longer span, you see that there isn't really much change.



    It's also not surprising that PC's are "stagnate" while Mac's are growing. The market is pretty saturated right now, just like cellphones. If you're buying a computer, it's typically replacing one you already have, not a brand new one. PC can't take much more of the market, and Mac can only go up. There are no other contenders currently (linux doesn't have any serious boxes shipping with it).



    the resession isn't the stumbling block you think it is either. People are still spending a TON of money on electronics, even as they cut back in other areas.



    I meant that I don't know where those numbers came from. Are they web use? Sales numbers? What? If it's web use, it's very unreliable.



    I didn't say anything about the recession. but, as you brought it up, most other companies, including electronics and computer companies suffered greatly during the recession - except for Apple.



    By the way, we've been out of the recession for about a year. Job growth is something else.
  • Reply 148 of 196
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Well, this is the best tablet ripoff so far, basically because it's closest to Apple's version. Even the presentation looks like an Apple presentation.



    However, it's not going to be out until the summer and important details such as pricing and battery life are unknown. And by that time, the iPad2 will of course be out. Apple had better make the iPad2 killer! Not just a minor upgrade to the iPad1, but significantly better. Then, that will be all she wrote, game over.



    I haven't watched any videos of this HP thing in action yet, but I was reading elsewhere that some people who did watch the videos were saying that scrolling was choppy.



    Also, one thing that NONE of the competitors and ripoffs have is Apple's ecosystem with their Appstore. Nothing else comes close.
  • Reply 149 of 196
    jcozjcoz Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    iPad pricing is something that shocked a lot of people. Other manufacturers are still reeling from that. A lot of tablets that were announced, as well as several book readers, were never put out for sale. We see the Xoom coming in for $799 with 32GB flash. The one thing that's better on that is the higher resolution. The rest, Apple will have with the iPad2.



    The Touchpad doesn't do anything to improve upon the iPad2 that will be out. And if that has two cameras, as expected, then the Touchpad will have less. With a max of 32GB flash, it had better cost no more than Apple's 32GB model when it comes out, and that will be a hard sell, so it should cost less. But, can it? We see why other manufacturers like RIM and Samsung are going for 7" tablets. The Tab costs $599 for an unsubsidized model. That's a lot, and I think they're losing money on it, or, they're charging too much for it in Europe.



    HP's units need to cost the same by memory (+/- $25) or they are DOA, I agree with you there absolutely.



    If this think can run flash without a considerable (say, not> 20%) drop in battery time, they will have an actual selling point over the ipad and Xoom. Don't jump on me there, flash is not big for me, I've gone to about 5 websites that I can't look at because of flash in 4 years of owning an iphone, but it matters to some people.



    Also, as apple grows in popularity so do the hate apple crowd. They can't wait for the Xoom and Touchpad (though they have little choice )....now, this will earn them alot of sales the first time around, then it has to stand on its own. We don't know if it will, but hate doesn't buy loyalty. They have to earn that fair and square.



    I think part of me thinking HP has a chance is that they may actually be able to match the pricing, we will see if they do.
  • Reply 150 of 196
    m0tm0t Posts: 5member
    I have some very nice and useful HP hardware, BUT they never keep it updated or have a longer product development strategy. They seem to orphan hardware faster than any other company I have experience with. Maybe that disposable printer attitude is in the company's DNA.



    So, I generally feel if I buy HP equipment, it will do what it does, but only for as long as it does not need to be updated to interface with anything else.



    It will be interesting to see how they treat their tablet customers.
  • Reply 151 of 196
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    so who is going to buy an iPad clone from HP for about the same price but without an ecosystem equal to Apple's, or even Googles', to support it?



    of course it has some nice details. like optional virtual keyboard layouts. hope Apple incorporates some good ideas from HP and Android too in iOS later this year.



    one big opportunity Apple can leverage with iOS this year or next is a much expanded Apple TV, or even an Apple HDTV. HP is not ready for that at all (Google is trying).



    and i expect to see a lot of iOS integration with OS X Lion this summer. so HP may not get there first either.



    but as many comments note already, maybe the most important part of Web OS for HP is the beginning of a Window-less OS alternative, as portable devices take a big chunk of the future of computing away from conventional desktop OS's.
  • Reply 152 of 196
    jcozjcoz Posts: 251member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M0T View Post


    I have some very nice and useful HP hardware, BUT they never keep it updated or have a longer product development strategy. They seem to orphan hardware faster than any other company I have experience with. Maybe that disposable printer attitude is in the company's DNA.



    So, I generally feel if I buy HP equipment, it will do what it does, but only for as long as it does not need to be updated to interface with anything else.



    It will be interesting to see how they treat their tablet customers.



    This, besides price, is where all the fine print is concerning HP's new lineup.....



    Will they get dev support and just as importantly, how will they manage their ecosystem, if at all? What type of deals will be in place for content providers like Time? How will another all-in-one house competitor affect apples leverage with content providers, if at all?



    Will the webOS team be able to take advantage of the whole aspect that HP now controls the hardware and software, which IMO is a major advantage for Apple over the HTC's, Motorola's, and LG's of the world of mobile computing?



    HP will need to further emulate Apple's recipe to gain traction here....



    They need to do quite a bit of things successfully to pull this off.
  • Reply 153 of 196
    Gruber has some interesting ideas posted on his site:



    http://daringfireball.net/



    He thinks that Apple will release the iPad 2 in March, and follow that with another iPad in Sep-Oct -- possibly an additional high-end model, say an iPad HD with a retina display.



    Interesting analysis behind this.



    If this were to happen, my Big Question is: What does Apple do for an entry iPad in March?



    My iSWAG estimate for the answer is the 32GB WiFi iPad gen 1 is offered at $299.



    Game, Set and Match!
  • Reply 154 of 196
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jcoz View Post


    No you dont have to be there, at least for me! lol, it is a funny story, especially since you are right in that they are exactly the same in that respect (my wife is also 5'2, for added humor, lol)...and the thing is, my wife is 24! its not like shes from a generation that didn't have computers for most of their lives....



    I'm absolutely not trying to be sexist, but at the same time I don't think it would be unfair for me to say that I believe women do make up a large chunk of the audience I'm speaking of. In my wifes case, its not an intelligence issue, its an interest issue. She's just not interested in tech. She has an idea of what she wants/needs to do and just want something that does it without her getting frustrated to tears over it.



    You know they may be onto something here....when you turn on the TV you don't want to have to drill down into a menu to get to play a DVD! Or pickup a telephone, you don't want to have to "restart" it every fifth time!



    As you say Apple is as close to getting it right as anyone...she loved the video I was able to take on my iP4, I quickly "bashed" it together in iMovie and had it on our big flat screen TV via ATV. She thought I was brilliant! Granted that was a few months ago. Right now she's in a phase where she blames me "for the recession!" Oh well, you can't win them all! Best and enjoyed your comments!
  • Reply 155 of 196
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




    My iSWAG estimate for the answer is the 32GB WiFi iPad gen 1 is offered at $299.



    Game, Set and Match!



    Wow, that would certainly upset the old apple cart, as it were! I was watching the SuperBowl when the Motorola Xoom commercial came on and an engineer sitting next to me said that's the tablet he'll be buying soon.



    Being the polite gentleman that I am, I just said, looks good. On Monday come to find out it's going to be ~$800 plus something about have a 3G cell plan for a month...Crunch!



    Certainly, HP has the buying power to buy things in bulk, but it sounds like Apple got first jump on securing best price by ordering early for screens and flash.



    $299 from Apple would seriously put the screws to the other competitors!



    Best
  • Reply 156 of 196
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post


    Some ideas are just blindingly obvious.



    Yup, so obvious all tablets before the iPad looked like the iPad



    Sure, after someone shows you the best way to do it, it's easy to say it's "blindingly obvious".



    But if it was so blindingly obvious why did they not appear until after the iPad?



    Your irrationality with this line of "reasoning" is just laughable.
  • Reply 157 of 196
    Why do they need to have "HP webOS" wasting display space? It's not like the thing can dual-boot into another OS.



    Maybe HP could switch it to a mostly transparent overlay, with "HP webOS" diagonally across the screen, like a printers watermark.
  • Reply 158 of 196
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwlaw99 View Post


    If HP can create a Davlik wrapper so this can run Android apps as well, it will get a bunch of Android users who like WebOS better, but want the app catalogue of Android.



    the phrase "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind...



    Talk about focusing on features vs. the user experience
  • Reply 159 of 196
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Yup, so obvious all tablets before the iPad looked like the iPad



    Sure, after someone shows you the best way to do it, it's easy to say it's "blindingly obvious".



    But if it was so blindingly obvious why did they not appear until after the iPad?



    Your irrationality with this line of "reasoning" is just laughable.



    You're exactly right.



    All great ideas seem simple and obvious after-the-fact. Yet, no one steps back and asks, 'if it was so simple, how come no one did it before?'



    (Btw, I clearly remember the many snarky comments about the 'ugly, wasted real estate' iPad bezel when SJ first previewed it! Forget even the bezel for the moment -- it's so easy to overlook the fact that before the iPhone, outside of universities and R&D labs, no one had a clue as to how to implement touch as a means of interacting with your computer).
  • Reply 160 of 196
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    This is just a few, I'm sure there is more!



    Those are the main ones and more than enough!



    The price thing is huge. If they keep the 16GB WiFi only iPad 1 and knock the price down $100 they will absolutely suck the oxygen out of the tablet market.



    Either that or suddenly 5" tablets will bet the next best thing and have all kinds of advantages over those 10" tablets that "other" company is selling
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