One question, if Apple states they've always enforced the rule, why is the Kindle app still available on iTunes?
Because Kindle opens up your web browser and takes you to an external web site to purchase the ebook. I understand that Sony wanted the customer to purchase their content from within the app itself.
translation: we want publishers to be held ransom by Sony instead of Apple in 3 to 5 years.
And besides, it's the musicians who are supposed to be held ransom by the publishers. Didn't Apple get the memo? What they're doing is just... unnatural.
That's not a problem, they pull they're stuff from iTunes and more people will pirate it. They'll do great from that won't they? Sony lost the plot years ago.
Well, the Sony guy did say "if" they gained traction with an alternative distribution system. So they wouldn't be so foolish as to pull their content off iTunes unless another, viable alternative was available first. It only makes sense...if something better comes along, they'd use it. And then they'd also use it as leverage to get a better deal from Apple because then pulling their content from iTunes would be a viable threat. But it all hinges of that "something better" coming along first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000
Well dude thats not the way to go. In my case I like buying used CDs though Ebay and sites like Borders Market. That way you legally own the music but at a fraction of the cost, sometimes 20cents a track (including shipping)! Not to mention you can rip the songs at the bit rate of your choice, specially in high quality formats sometimes not available for online purchase
You realize that many of those used CDs you are purchasing were first ripped by their original owners, perhaps several previous owners, before you purchased them at a discount? So in a way, you are still supporting piracy. Not by you of course. Kudos to you for paying for your music. Just making the observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX
Can someone please explain to me why I so many companies and developers are throwing a fit about this? If Apple is not stopping these purchases, but rather just trying to require for the conveniece of users that there is a choice between buying through a web portal or through the App itself, then why does Sony care? Am I missing something huge here? It seems ridiculous to resist providing an in-app purchase method.
As others have pointed out, the in-app route cuts 30% off the revenue the content provider gets for it's sales. And why should you care? Well, imagine if Sony could sell you a book for $10. They would probably distribute it to you themselves for $1 (just making that up) or let Apple distribute it for $3. So going the iTunes route just cost them 20%. That's HUGE! It's the same reason Apple would rather you buy your Mac directly from them instead of from Best Buy or Amazon. They get to keep all the money. Why shouldn't Sony desire the same thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nervus
Publishers and content providers don't think they should have to share 30% of their revenue with Apple through in-app purchases. Basically Sony wants to provide their app for free then direct customers to a webpage or something else for purchasing content to use in the app cutting Apple out of the revenue all together. And basicly just use Apple's hosting/delivery services for free. They all want access to the promised land of billions of users without paying the gatekeeper to them, or maker of that promised land. It's an industry that is so used to getting their way and screwing everyone from the artist, distributers, and customers. They really don't like having to play with someone else's rules
Sure, but just to play devil's advocate...what is Apple doing to earn that 30% on the content? Sony uses Apple to distribute it's free app. But that's Apple's own fault for requiring all iOS apps to be distributed via iTunes. Earning a cut on download apps makes sense because iTunes is handling the UI for people to search, browse, review, and download the app. But for the content, Apple is nothing more than a "dumb pipe" (as we like to refer to the roll cellular provides should play). 30% seems pretty steep price for being a dumb pipe.
It would probably make sense for Apple to have a different cut of the price (10%?) for in app content purchases than for actual apps sales. Otherwise, if it were me, I'd sell my content for $10 from my own site and $13 if you get it in-app via Apple to make up for the revenue shortfall from Apple's cut. That would make is easy to find out if the "convenience" of in-app purchases are really worth 30% in the customer's eyes.
It only takes one to start the flood. 10 years ago iTunes was it, now things are changing a bit. One leaves, some others may follow. Curious to see how this turns out.
Me too. But like a flood, it also takes rain. These music companies just like the old ways where they controlled everything and made all the profit. With Apple the numbers are right there for everyone to see. INCLUDING THE ARTISTS.. Who now see how greedy the music companies really are.
No SONY movies and music on iTunes is a massive blow to apple's
Yes, Sony, teach us all a lesson and open up the Playstation for unlicensed games. Open up the Sony Reader for 3rd party apps. Or even better: Release DRM-free content that works anywhere. (At least stay way from rootkit DRMs)
No? Well, I didn't think so.
But at least don't get all whiney when someone else's restrictions make more money than your restrictions.
I have a Sony e-reader I have not used it since I bought an ipad 6 months ago but with the software that comes with it you have to buy books from a third party. so this must be a completely new store for them on the UK anyway.
The app rejection and the revenues Sony would lose seem to make this sound like it's an excuse or red herring since the the things are so far apart in reality from a business stand point. The real reason is more likely their own rival to iTunes not wanting the iTunes competition. This is a wreck in the making for Sony imo. It is sobering to think that yesterdays weird dip in AAPL was a 10 billion dollar movement which was a mere blip for Apple but about one third of Sony's entire market cap! I still wonder if Sony might not make a nice department for Apple Inc. The music rights alone would be sweet and think of all those nice HD cameras and professional equipment.
Sony owns alot of the content on iTunes being the largest of the big four music firms so this would put a dent in Apple. What is crazy is that it also includes the Beatles catalog (michael jackson leveraged with Sony) that Apple just promoted insanely around the world. I do not think Apple wants this head ache especially over policies they do and don't enforce (kindle, nook, marvel ect.) and that are likely to get them in anti-trust trouble with the FTC. This might actually improve and open up the iOS, at least that is my hope.
artists don't own music anymore, the big firms do and with sony taking the hottest content to other distributors (amzon, walmart, spotfy ect.) Apple stands to loose more than they would gain, they are not stupid.
....and what part of Universal winning variable pricing and album exclusive content concessions from Apple did you miss? "tail between the legs" umm, right. iTunes without content equals.....still iTunes but no content revenue for Apple, people can easily get superior content from other sources for iTunes to sync with (ripping from CD is much higher quality).
artists don't own music anymore, the big firms do and with sony taking the hottest content to other distributors (amzon, walmart, spotfy ect.) Apple stands to loose more than they would gain, they are not stupid.
I agree. Amazon will be the big winner here, Walmart as well. But I anticipate that reasonable minds at both Apple and Sony will reach an accomodation before the trigger is pulled. This in my mind is just a negotiation.
And to think that just ten years ago none of these tech giants would give Apple the time of day. Now they're complaining about how Apple is mean to them and won't play nice. Hence the "standing on a burning platform" comment from another tech giant recently.
Publishers and content providers don't think they should have to share 30% of their revenue with Apple through in-app purchases. Basically Sony wants to provide their app for free then direct customers to a webpage or something else for purchasing content to use in the app cutting Apple out of the revenue all together. And basicly just use Apple's hosting/delivery services for free. They all want access to the promised land of billions of users without paying the gatekeeper to them, or maker of that promised land. It's an industry that is so used to getting their way and screwing everyone from the artist, distributers, and customers. They really don't like having to play with someone else's rules
You're ignoring fiduciary responsibilities Sony's managers have to their shareholders. If Sony could drop iTunes and use other distribution channels that offer a greater profit return, even at lower revenues, then they have an obligation to provide the greatest return for their shareholders investment. Business wise, I understand why Sony is upset about the ereader problem. For starters, Apple is competing with them with hardware, software, and slowly encroaching on their digital content. Second, Apple is reducing Sony's contribution margin on books that Apple dictated the price to while keeping their contribution margins lower. This forces Sony to raise their prices higher than Apple's to make up that 30% cut, effectively cutting off Sony, and all other book distributors, from competing fairly (at least on iOS). Strategically, utilizing a core component of iTunes as a way to muscle one of your distributors is a reasonable decision, and possibly one of Sony's last efforts.
Now, everything I said above can be applied to Apple in reverse as to why Apple would do such things to provide a greater return for their shareholders. Unfortunately, the only people who lose are consumers and iOS owners, as Apple has effectively killed off all competition to the products and services Apple offers on these devices. Let's just hope Sony prevails so you, as consumers, get better competition and the lower prices that usually come with it.
Comments
No SONY movies and music on iTunes is a massive blow to apple's
One question, if Apple states they've always enforced the rule, why is the Kindle app still available on iTunes?
Because Kindle opens up your web browser and takes you to an external web site to purchase the ebook. I understand that Sony wanted the customer to purchase their content from within the app itself.
Do it SONY. Teach the machine a lesson.
No SONY movies and music on iTunes is a massive blow to apple's
Yeah, just like Universal. Oh, didn't they come running back to Apple with their tail between their legs
Doubtful they would pull their music from Apple as their loss would be bigger than their gain .
3 to 5 years down the road is a long way to speculate and not reality as anything can happen in that time frame.
translation: we want publishers to be held ransom by Sony instead of Apple in 3 to 5 years.
And besides, it's the musicians who are supposed to be held ransom by the publishers. Didn't Apple get the memo? What they're doing is just... unnatural.
I already don't like most Sony products, but I do have a sony bluray.
I will get Sony music "some other way" so Sony will never see a dime of it. Or simply just stop supporting artists who use sony.
Sony needs to stop trying to think of ways to block competition and just be competitive so people want their products.
Sony could have everything Apple has if they would just pull their heads out of their asses and do it.
Sony doesn't get it. Stevo proved with iTunes "easy" can trump "free!"
I'm in the market for a new LED TV & BR player...I may have considered a Sony, but not now! Idiots!
That's not a problem, they pull they're stuff from iTunes and more people will pirate it. They'll do great from that won't they? Sony lost the plot years ago.
Well, the Sony guy did say "if" they gained traction with an alternative distribution system. So they wouldn't be so foolish as to pull their content off iTunes unless another, viable alternative was available first. It only makes sense...if something better comes along, they'd use it. And then they'd also use it as leverage to get a better deal from Apple because then pulling their content from iTunes would be a viable threat. But it all hinges of that "something better" coming along first.
Well dude thats not the way to go. In my case I like buying used CDs though Ebay and sites like Borders Market. That way you legally own the music but at a fraction of the cost, sometimes 20cents a track (including shipping)! Not to mention you can rip the songs at the bit rate of your choice, specially in high quality formats sometimes not available for online purchase
You realize that many of those used CDs you are purchasing were first ripped by their original owners, perhaps several previous owners, before you purchased them at a discount? So in a way, you are still supporting piracy. Not by you of course. Kudos to you for paying for your music. Just making the observation.
Can someone please explain to me why I so many companies and developers are throwing a fit about this? If Apple is not stopping these purchases, but rather just trying to require for the conveniece of users that there is a choice between buying through a web portal or through the App itself, then why does Sony care? Am I missing something huge here? It seems ridiculous to resist providing an in-app purchase method.
As others have pointed out, the in-app route cuts 30% off the revenue the content provider gets for it's sales. And why should you care? Well, imagine if Sony could sell you a book for $10. They would probably distribute it to you themselves for $1 (just making that up) or let Apple distribute it for $3. So going the iTunes route just cost them 20%. That's HUGE! It's the same reason Apple would rather you buy your Mac directly from them instead of from Best Buy or Amazon. They get to keep all the money. Why shouldn't Sony desire the same thing?
Publishers and content providers don't think they should have to share 30% of their revenue with Apple through in-app purchases. Basically Sony wants to provide their app for free then direct customers to a webpage or something else for purchasing content to use in the app cutting Apple out of the revenue all together. And basicly just use Apple's hosting/delivery services for free. They all want access to the promised land of billions of users without paying the gatekeeper to them, or maker of that promised land. It's an industry that is so used to getting their way and screwing everyone from the artist, distributers, and customers. They really don't like having to play with someone else's rules
Sure, but just to play devil's advocate...what is Apple doing to earn that 30% on the content? Sony uses Apple to distribute it's free app. But that's Apple's own fault for requiring all iOS apps to be distributed via iTunes. Earning a cut on download apps makes sense because iTunes is handling the UI for people to search, browse, review, and download the app. But for the content, Apple is nothing more than a "dumb pipe" (as we like to refer to the roll cellular provides should play). 30% seems pretty steep price for being a dumb pipe.
It would probably make sense for Apple to have a different cut of the price (10%?) for in app content purchases than for actual apps sales. Otherwise, if it were me, I'd sell my content for $10 from my own site and $13 if you get it in-app via Apple to make up for the revenue shortfall from Apple's cut. That would make is easy to find out if the "convenience" of in-app purchases are really worth 30% in the customer's eyes.
It's a protest, to be sure, but a stupid, self-harming one.
C.
It only takes one to start the flood. 10 years ago iTunes was it, now things are changing a bit. One leaves, some others may follow. Curious to see how this turns out.
Me too. But like a flood, it also takes rain. These music companies just like the old ways where they controlled everything and made all the profit. With Apple the numbers are right there for everyone to see. INCLUDING THE ARTISTS.. Who now see how greedy the music companies really are.
Just a thought,
en
Do it SONY. Teach the machine a lesson.
No SONY movies and music on iTunes is a massive blow to apple's
Yes, Sony, teach us all a lesson and open up the Playstation for unlicensed games. Open up the Sony Reader for 3rd party apps. Or even better: Release DRM-free content that works anywhere. (At least stay way from rootkit DRMs)
No? Well, I didn't think so.
But at least don't get all whiney when someone else's restrictions make more money than your restrictions.
The app rejection and the revenues Sony would lose seem to make this sound like it's an excuse or red herring since the the things are so far apart in reality from a business stand point. The real reason is more likely their own rival to iTunes not wanting the iTunes competition. This is a wreck in the making for Sony imo. It is sobering to think that yesterdays weird dip in AAPL was a 10 billion dollar movement which was a mere blip for Apple but about one third of Sony's entire market cap! I still wonder if Sony might not make a nice department for Apple Inc. The music rights alone would be sweet and think of all those nice HD cameras and professional equipment.
Sony owns alot of the content on iTunes being the largest of the big four music firms so this would put a dent in Apple. What is crazy is that it also includes the Beatles catalog (michael jackson leveraged with Sony) that Apple just promoted insanely around the world. I do not think Apple wants this head ache especially over policies they do and don't enforce (kindle, nook, marvel ect.) and that are likely to get them in anti-trust trouble with the FTC. This might actually improve and open up the iOS, at least that is my hope.
artists don't own music anymore, the big firms do and with sony taking the hottest content to other distributors (amzon, walmart, spotfy ect.) Apple stands to loose more than they would gain, they are not stupid.
I agree. Amazon will be the big winner here, Walmart as well. But I anticipate that reasonable minds at both Apple and Sony will reach an accomodation before the trigger is pulled. This in my mind is just a negotiation.
Publishers and content providers don't think they should have to share 30% of their revenue with Apple through in-app purchases. Basically Sony wants to provide their app for free then direct customers to a webpage or something else for purchasing content to use in the app cutting Apple out of the revenue all together. And basicly just use Apple's hosting/delivery services for free. They all want access to the promised land of billions of users without paying the gatekeeper to them, or maker of that promised land. It's an industry that is so used to getting their way and screwing everyone from the artist, distributers, and customers. They really don't like having to play with someone else's rules
You're ignoring fiduciary responsibilities Sony's managers have to their shareholders. If Sony could drop iTunes and use other distribution channels that offer a greater profit return, even at lower revenues, then they have an obligation to provide the greatest return for their shareholders investment. Business wise, I understand why Sony is upset about the ereader problem. For starters, Apple is competing with them with hardware, software, and slowly encroaching on their digital content. Second, Apple is reducing Sony's contribution margin on books that Apple dictated the price to while keeping their contribution margins lower. This forces Sony to raise their prices higher than Apple's to make up that 30% cut, effectively cutting off Sony, and all other book distributors, from competing fairly (at least on iOS). Strategically, utilizing a core component of iTunes as a way to muscle one of your distributors is a reasonable decision, and possibly one of Sony's last efforts.
Now, everything I said above can be applied to Apple in reverse as to why Apple would do such things to provide a greater return for their shareholders. Unfortunately, the only people who lose are consumers and iOS owners, as Apple has effectively killed off all competition to the products and services Apple offers on these devices. Let's just hope Sony prevails so you, as consumers, get better competition and the lower prices that usually come with it.