By the time the battery goes bad, you probably won't have a warranty anyway.
So if my battery dies at 2pm, I won't have my warranty? People don't want a removable battery in case it "goes bad". They want one so they can swap batteries out during the day. Not everyone has access to a power receptacle, computer, charger all day long.
If this is real -- awesome. I'd adore a smaller version. I know the iPhone is already one of the slimmest smarts out there, but I still find it bulky in my pocket (in terms of length and width). Even a 20% reduction would be really welcome. I don't think a size cut would hurt the touch screen experience at all. Bring it on! Perhaps a version without a required data plan, too?
One of the smallest smart phones in existence is bulky? I want a bigger iPhone not a smaller one.
At the same time I think an iPhone nano would be fantastic for Apple because it would enable them to draw a whole new demographic into the Apple ecosystem.
I'm with the 71 year old, I want one with the same 640x960 resolution (for compatibility) but in a 5.5" screen. That way it would be readable at a greater distance making it possible to put the darn thing down when using it for an extended period of time. It'd would have amazing battery life similar to the iPad while still fitting in a pocket (same width as an average man's wallet, but much thinner).
I think Apple's iOS business is big enough now for them to branch out and offer a little more choice.
Makes no sense for Apple to release a smaller phone. The savings on Display will not be anywhere near worth it for them to take the risk of fragmenting the iPhone/iPod Touch market.
They have already successfully shown that iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 can coexist without any fragmentation issues. There is one other important thing to remember. It is not so much the cost of making the iPhone that stops Apple from releasing a cheaper unlocked phone. Apple can make a small profit even if they sell the current iPhone 3GS at $200. The more important issue with Apple is to prevent cannibalization. They need to keep the cheaper iPhone different in some significant ways, so that most users would still go for the premium versions. At the same time, these differences should not result in fragmentation.
Some of the ways to prevent cannibalization, without causing fragmentation, are:
- Lesser battery capacity
- Possibly allow only Edge/GPRS usage on the cheaper phone - this will consume lesser battery, allowing Apple to lower battery capacity without impacting usability. Also, this phone is likely to be most attractive in emerging markets like India and China - and in these markets, Edge/GPRS would be a reasonable compromise.
- Use very limited Flash memory. Would lower costs, as well as protect from cannibalization. Even 1GB or 2GB should be more than sufficient.
- Use A4 or A5 processor, but lower the clock speed marginally, or use only single core, etc. Similarly, with the GPU.
- Work with carriers to create data plans that allow low usage at low cost, but would be prohibitively expensive with heavy usage. However this is difficult if the phone is going to be sold unlocked.
At all costs, avoid changes like lowering RAM, lowering display size, removing camera/GPS/accelerometers/proximity sensors/gyroscope etc. Might work to lower camera spec marginally, but I don't think this will save Apple much money.
One other aspect Apple needs to protect themselves against - the components required for this phone should be easily available in massive quantities. There is no point in releasing a cheap unlocked phone if they cannot make it in huge volumes. Also, making this phone should not impact manufacture of the premium iPhone in any way, either in terms of component availablity, or in terms of bandwidth at Foxconn, and other manufacturers.
If properly executed, this phone should ensure that Apple gets close to 15% of the overall mobile phone market by 2012-end, and gets over 40% of the smartphone market. They should also be able to get 65-70% of the profits in the mobile business.
Apple is already the winner in terms of profit share and mindshare. With this move, they could also be the leader in terms of market share. The best part of this phone, is that it will suck the oxygen out of Android. Already, Android manufacturers are indulging in a race to the bottom, and finding it difficult to make money as phones are getting outdated within months of their release! If Apple launches this cheap iPhone, their troubles would get worse.
Good observation. The iPod Nano may well have been a trial run of the design and is likely the device that will be most cannibalized.
Ah, you almost figured it out! the new iPhone Nano will REPLACE the iPod Nano. which otherwise has been made unnecessary in the marketplace by the iPod touch (which is actually a mini-iPad).
it'll be a great featurephone. still a really good PMP of course. with blutooth. and FaceTime?
the iPod Shuffle will live on for those who still just want a simple PMP.
Good observation. The iPod Nano may well have been a trial run of the design and is likely the device that will be most cannibalized.
I hope to God that wouldn't be designed as a standalone phone, but simply as a wireless companion device that sends you notifications, etc. I'm actually shocked something like this hasn't been designed already, because of its practicality. Why do I need to dig my phone out of my pocket/bag/etc, when I can just glance at my watch to see if its worth doing so? I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat, so would many others.
This rumor has some merit. A smaller iPhone would require getting rid of the Home button area as rumored with new gestures coming to iOS that would replace the home button. That would cut about 3/4 of an inch off of the iPhone's face. Then get rid of the bezel altogether and reduce the amount of black non-screen realestate at the top.
Basically a mostly screen phone without sacrificing the screen dimensions. That would be acceptable.
Interesting to look at, but this looks like a premium phone, not a low cost one. Wow, imagine if that were still a retina display on that tiny thing! (Think of the miniaturization costs!)
Either way, I imagine it would not get thinner if all the bezel space was eliminated. With all the phone internals that would still be necessary, where would your battery be?
Apple does care about profits but that does not mean they are oblivious to marketshare or market opportunities. Jobs has commented several times about creating no price umbrella when discussing the iPod and iPad and, maybe even, the MBA. Such a price umbrella does exist in the iPhone world where there is a substantial difference between the lowest price unsubsidized iPhone and the lowest price Android phone. Besides, some people just want a good phone without the need for a lot of data services. Not to mention, this is a phone that could do well in emerging markets like China, India and Brazil. Apple could sell this phone to people who would never consider the current iPhone due to cost and is willing to gamble that it won't pull too much business from the existing iPhone.
As for profit, I suspect that Apple will have plenty of margin but, given the lower selling price, fewer margin dollars per phone. Apple would be expecting to trade those high margin dollars for a substantial increase in phone sales at a lower price.
Apple TV + display + touch + cellular radio = profitable phone at lower cost.
I hope Apple really improves MobileMe. It needs better performance, Dropbox still trumps iDisk. Even with broadband iDisk is dog sloooooowww.
Gmail email feels faster then MobileMe mail as well. A big issue is when composing an email
and then you hit send, later to realize that some how you took too long writing it and either MobileMe Mail decided you were inactive so you must login again but your email is now gone since you hit send. That's realllly annoying.
Addressbook and Calendar syncing could be better, for some reason not all contacts or events appear after syncing.
My hopes is that Apple buys out Yahoo and puts their engineers to focus on Mobileme or perhaps buy Dropbox or other specialized companies to improve the service.
Joyent looks good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyljohnson
...is MobileMe. Who cares if they make a bigger or smaller phone. If they do some people will buy some people won't.
MobileMe, however is Apple's product that has been in hiding. I use and love MM. My files are everywhere, along with my contacts, email, calendars, etc. I pay for it and I am glad to. It is always up and ad free.
I have felt for a long time that MM would become iOS for Mac. You would be able to install apps, etc. I was proven wrong with Lion. I now think MM will be your storage for the Mac and iOS. This means that iOS will link into MM to view files, sync contact, sync audio, etc. When it comes to the Mac, MM will not only link but have a saved repository of MM. This will allow you to work offline as well as have a two way backup system.
MobileMe as it is today will be free (sans iDisk). MobileMe with iTunes, iPhoto/Aperture, some sort of Backup system, and iDisk will cost you.
- Work with North American carriers to create data plans that allow low usage at low cost, but would be prohibitively expensive with heavy usage.
Here, fixed that for you. Since for a given physical handset you often cannot easily switch carriers in NA, there is much less competition among carriers for cellphone plans not tied to a handset subsidy. The cheapest plan for a smart phone in Germany start at ? 4 per month.
I pay for mobile me for email and to a certain extent, storage. However, if apple wants to make mobile me a bigger part of its "ecosystem," it needs to fix the problem with upload speeds. I tried to upload 300 pictures (about half a gig worth of storage) and it uploaded 196 in 6 hours. I gave up after the sixth hour. Normally, I would have given up after 30 minutes but I'm writing a grant proposal and the uploading was taking place in the background.
What if apple does keep the 3.5 inch screen size and just shrinks the rest down as much as possible? I don't see them ditching the button. I think it's an important part of the iOS experience. They may, however, redesign it a bit. Maybe shrink it a bit. Anywho, here's what I think that will look like:
I'm not sure keeping the 3.5 inch screen will enable to let them make it small enough to really differentiate it.
Looking at these mock ups though, man that bezel on the iPhone 4 is looking HUGE!
1. The iPhone 4 is too small, and now they are making a smaller phone, instead of making a bigger phone.
2. I'm an iPhone 4 user, and I would prefer an iPhone with a larger screen, similar to the Droid X. Go bigger, not smaller please. This is a hand held computer, and I want my online experience to be as close to the experience of an iPad, without the phone being too big. iPad would be too big.
3. I've played with the Samsung Galaxy. It's the perfect size. It's still rather portable at its size, because it will fit in a back pocket, or jacket pocket. The iPad won't.
4. Navigation: Although the mapping features on the iPhone 4 are good, and the Google Maps sufficient, I've had the pleasure of playing with my girlfriends Droid phone, and the turn by turn directions with voice is far superior. To get those kind of navigational features on the iPhone, you have to pay for some $39.99 to $59.99 app. Sorry!!!! I prefer Google's free navigational offering with all of that stuff build in.
5. Android phones are just about as good. Sure the iPhone is from Apple, and we all love Apple for what it has done for consumer electronics, but the Android phones are a very very close second place. So close in fact, that there really isn't much of a difference other than the "coolness" factor. And...as a matter of fact, I'm not sure the actual phone part of a droid phone might be better, because the iPhone seems to suck as a phone. Great computer. Sucks as a phone.
I could go on and on about Apple and the iPhone. The iPhone is awesome. It's a great pocket computer, but that's about it. It's a terrible phone. I've actually heard they improved the antenna on the Verizon Iphone 4 version, so Verizon won't take the crappy phone hit that ATT took.
If Apple makes an iPhone with a bigger screen, I might stick with it, but I want my phone to be a bit more computer-like...like the Droid X.
OH...and apps. So freakin what, that the Apple app store has hundreds of thousands of apps. I regularly only use about 10 apps that don't come native with a new iPhone. The rest are novelties. They are apps I pay .99 cents for that I get bored with in about a week or two.
You sound like the Droid is for you. Best move on. All of that rant ( except point 1) is unrelated to this thread.
I hope Apple really improves MobileMe. It needs better performance, Dropbox still trumps iDisk. Even with broadband iDisk is dog sloooooowww.
Gmail email feels faster then MobileMe mail as well. A big issue is when composing an email
and then you hit send, later to realize that some how you took too long writing it and either MobileMe Mail decided you were inactive so you must login again but your email is now gone since you hit send. That's realllly annoying.
Addressbook and Calendar syncing could be better, for some reason not all contacts or events appear after syncing.
My hopes is that Apple buys out Yahoo and puts their engineers to focus on Mobileme or perhaps buy Dropbox or other specialized companies to improve the service.
Joyent looks good.
MobileMe upload speeds are the same as any other uploads for me. Sync problems? None. 90% of the time they happen almost instaneoudsly and the other 10% within minutes. I don't use the web email and I'm not sure I see the advantage of doing so. Having two apple iOS devices and a Mac, the point of MobileMe email is that I can set up each device by simply logging into my MobileMe account once and for all. Then all the native apps, (mail, calendar, contacts, bookmarks) do their thing seamlessly. Why tie yourself to a web portal instead?
Apple buys yahoo? Common now! Do you seriously think apple doesn't have the resources or staff to make improvements to MobileMe? I think you are selling them awfully short. And if apple buys every company suggested here (AT&T so they can become a carrier, Sony for content and gaming, yahoo for sync and cloud, etc) well...need I say more?
The small iPhone can be used as a hotspot device for iPad2. The iPad2 will have a front facing camera for FaceTime. The small iPhone will have cameras like the iPhone 4. The iPad owners can used the small iPhone to take pictures and video. The question is then can the iPad use hotspot to transmit the video of the small iPhone through the FaceTime.
Comments
By the time the battery goes bad, you probably won't have a warranty anyway.
So if my battery dies at 2pm, I won't have my warranty? People don't want a removable battery in case it "goes bad". They want one so they can swap batteries out during the day. Not everyone has access to a power receptacle, computer, charger all day long.
That larger screen area will increase the inherent resolution of the display.
If this is real -- awesome. I'd adore a smaller version. I know the iPhone is already one of the slimmest smarts out there, but I still find it bulky in my pocket (in terms of length and width). Even a 20% reduction would be really welcome. I don't think a size cut would hurt the touch screen experience at all. Bring it on! Perhaps a version without a required data plan, too?
One of the smallest smart phones in existence is bulky? I want a bigger iPhone not a smaller one.
At the same time I think an iPhone nano would be fantastic for Apple because it would enable them to draw a whole new demographic into the Apple ecosystem.
I'm with the 71 year old, I want one with the same 640x960 resolution (for compatibility) but in a 5.5" screen. That way it would be readable at a greater distance making it possible to put the darn thing down when using it for an extended period of time. It'd would have amazing battery life similar to the iPad while still fitting in a pocket (same width as an average man's wallet, but much thinner).
I think Apple's iOS business is big enough now for them to branch out and offer a little more choice.
They have already successfully shown that iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 can coexist without any fragmentation issues. There is one other important thing to remember. It is not so much the cost of making the iPhone that stops Apple from releasing a cheaper unlocked phone. Apple can make a small profit even if they sell the current iPhone 3GS at $200. The more important issue with Apple is to prevent cannibalization. They need to keep the cheaper iPhone different in some significant ways, so that most users would still go for the premium versions. At the same time, these differences should not result in fragmentation.
Some of the ways to prevent cannibalization, without causing fragmentation, are:
- Lesser battery capacity
- Possibly allow only Edge/GPRS usage on the cheaper phone - this will consume lesser battery, allowing Apple to lower battery capacity without impacting usability. Also, this phone is likely to be most attractive in emerging markets like India and China - and in these markets, Edge/GPRS would be a reasonable compromise.
- Use very limited Flash memory. Would lower costs, as well as protect from cannibalization. Even 1GB or 2GB should be more than sufficient.
- Use A4 or A5 processor, but lower the clock speed marginally, or use only single core, etc. Similarly, with the GPU.
- Work with carriers to create data plans that allow low usage at low cost, but would be prohibitively expensive with heavy usage. However this is difficult if the phone is going to be sold unlocked.
At all costs, avoid changes like lowering RAM, lowering display size, removing camera/GPS/accelerometers/proximity sensors/gyroscope etc. Might work to lower camera spec marginally, but I don't think this will save Apple much money.
One other aspect Apple needs to protect themselves against - the components required for this phone should be easily available in massive quantities. There is no point in releasing a cheap unlocked phone if they cannot make it in huge volumes. Also, making this phone should not impact manufacture of the premium iPhone in any way, either in terms of component availablity, or in terms of bandwidth at Foxconn, and other manufacturers.
If properly executed, this phone should ensure that Apple gets close to 15% of the overall mobile phone market by 2012-end, and gets over 40% of the smartphone market. They should also be able to get 65-70% of the profits in the mobile business.
Apple is already the winner in terms of profit share and mindshare. With this move, they could also be the leader in terms of market share. The best part of this phone, is that it will suck the oxygen out of Android. Already, Android manufacturers are indulging in a race to the bottom, and finding it difficult to make money as phones are getting outdated within months of their release! If Apple launches this cheap iPhone, their troubles would get worse.
Good observation. The iPod Nano may well have been a trial run of the design and is likely the device that will be most cannibalized.
Ah, you almost figured it out! the new iPhone Nano will REPLACE the iPod Nano. which otherwise has been made unnecessary in the marketplace by the iPod touch (which is actually a mini-iPad).
it'll be a great featurephone. still a really good PMP of course. with blutooth. and FaceTime?
the iPod Shuffle will live on for those who still just want a simple PMP.
Good observation. The iPod Nano may well have been a trial run of the design and is likely the device that will be most cannibalized.
I hope to God that wouldn't be designed as a standalone phone, but simply as a wireless companion device that sends you notifications, etc. I'm actually shocked something like this hasn't been designed already, because of its practicality. Why do I need to dig my phone out of my pocket/bag/etc, when I can just glance at my watch to see if its worth doing so? I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat, so would many others.
This rumor has some merit. A smaller iPhone would require getting rid of the Home button area as rumored with new gestures coming to iOS that would replace the home button. That would cut about 3/4 of an inch off of the iPhone's face. Then get rid of the bezel altogether and reduce the amount of black non-screen realestate at the top.
Basically a mostly screen phone without sacrificing the screen dimensions. That would be acceptable.
Forgive my terrible editing skills..
Forgive my terrible editing skills..
Interesting to look at, but this looks like a premium phone, not a low cost one. Wow, imagine if that were still a retina display on that tiny thing! (Think of the miniaturization costs!)
Either way, I imagine it would not get thinner if all the bezel space was eliminated. With all the phone internals that would still be necessary, where would your battery be?
How difficult will it be to type on a smaller keyboard?
I can imagine it won't be very comfortable. I took me a little bit just getting used to the iPhone keyboard, I couldn't see it being even smaller.
Your observations make sense to me.
Apple does care about profits but that does not mean they are oblivious to marketshare or market opportunities. Jobs has commented several times about creating no price umbrella when discussing the iPod and iPad and, maybe even, the MBA. Such a price umbrella does exist in the iPhone world where there is a substantial difference between the lowest price unsubsidized iPhone and the lowest price Android phone. Besides, some people just want a good phone without the need for a lot of data services. Not to mention, this is a phone that could do well in emerging markets like China, India and Brazil. Apple could sell this phone to people who would never consider the current iPhone due to cost and is willing to gamble that it won't pull too much business from the existing iPhone.
As for profit, I suspect that Apple will have plenty of margin but, given the lower selling price, fewer margin dollars per phone. Apple would be expecting to trade those high margin dollars for a substantial increase in phone sales at a lower price.
Apple TV + display + touch + cellular radio = profitable phone at lower cost.
Forgive my terrible editing skills..
Boy you took out the speaker
Gmail email feels faster then MobileMe mail as well. A big issue is when composing an email
and then you hit send, later to realize that some how you took too long writing it and either MobileMe Mail decided you were inactive so you must login again but your email is now gone since you hit send. That's realllly annoying.
Addressbook and Calendar syncing could be better, for some reason not all contacts or events appear after syncing.
My hopes is that Apple buys out Yahoo and puts their engineers to focus on Mobileme or perhaps buy Dropbox or other specialized companies to improve the service.
Joyent looks good.
...is MobileMe. Who cares if they make a bigger or smaller phone. If they do some people will buy some people won't.
MobileMe, however is Apple's product that has been in hiding. I use and love MM. My files are everywhere, along with my contacts, email, calendars, etc. I pay for it and I am glad to. It is always up and ad free.
I have felt for a long time that MM would become iOS for Mac. You would be able to install apps, etc. I was proven wrong with Lion. I now think MM will be your storage for the Mac and iOS. This means that iOS will link into MM to view files, sync contact, sync audio, etc. When it comes to the Mac, MM will not only link but have a saved repository of MM. This will allow you to work offline as well as have a two way backup system.
MobileMe as it is today will be free (sans iDisk). MobileMe with iTunes, iPhoto/Aperture, some sort of Backup system, and iDisk will cost you.
- Work with North American carriers to create data plans that allow low usage at low cost, but would be prohibitively expensive with heavy usage.
Here, fixed that for you. Since for a given physical handset you often cannot easily switch carriers in NA, there is much less competition among carriers for cellphone plans not tied to a handset subsidy. The cheapest plan for a smart phone in Germany start at ? 4 per month.
Boy you took out the speaker.
He didn't remove the speaker of mic, he just has limited PS skills.
What if apple does keep the 3.5 inch screen size and just shrinks the rest down as much as possible? I don't see them ditching the button. I think it's an important part of the iOS experience. They may, however, redesign it a bit. Maybe shrink it a bit. Anywho, here's what I think that will look like:
I'm not sure keeping the 3.5 inch screen will enable to let them make it small enough to really differentiate it.
Looking at these mock ups though, man that bezel on the iPhone 4 is looking HUGE!
How about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOptnFNgQo
Here's why:
1. The iPhone 4 is too small, and now they are making a smaller phone, instead of making a bigger phone.
2. I'm an iPhone 4 user, and I would prefer an iPhone with a larger screen, similar to the Droid X. Go bigger, not smaller please. This is a hand held computer, and I want my online experience to be as close to the experience of an iPad, without the phone being too big. iPad would be too big.
3. I've played with the Samsung Galaxy. It's the perfect size. It's still rather portable at its size, because it will fit in a back pocket, or jacket pocket. The iPad won't.
4. Navigation: Although the mapping features on the iPhone 4 are good, and the Google Maps sufficient, I've had the pleasure of playing with my girlfriends Droid phone, and the turn by turn directions with voice is far superior. To get those kind of navigational features on the iPhone, you have to pay for some $39.99 to $59.99 app. Sorry!!!! I prefer Google's free navigational offering with all of that stuff build in.
5. Android phones are just about as good. Sure the iPhone is from Apple, and we all love Apple for what it has done for consumer electronics, but the Android phones are a very very close second place. So close in fact, that there really isn't much of a difference other than the "coolness" factor. And...as a matter of fact, I'm not sure the actual phone part of a droid phone might be better, because the iPhone seems to suck as a phone. Great computer. Sucks as a phone.
I could go on and on about Apple and the iPhone. The iPhone is awesome. It's a great pocket computer, but that's about it. It's a terrible phone. I've actually heard they improved the antenna on the Verizon Iphone 4 version, so Verizon won't take the crappy phone hit that ATT took.
If Apple makes an iPhone with a bigger screen, I might stick with it, but I want my phone to be a bit more computer-like...like the Droid X.
OH...and apps. So freakin what, that the Apple app store has hundreds of thousands of apps. I regularly only use about 10 apps that don't come native with a new iPhone. The rest are novelties. They are apps I pay .99 cents for that I get bored with in about a week or two.
You sound like the Droid is for you. Best move on. All of that rant ( except point 1) is unrelated to this thread.
I hope Apple really improves MobileMe. It needs better performance, Dropbox still trumps iDisk. Even with broadband iDisk is dog sloooooowww.
Gmail email feels faster then MobileMe mail as well. A big issue is when composing an email
and then you hit send, later to realize that some how you took too long writing it and either MobileMe Mail decided you were inactive so you must login again but your email is now gone since you hit send. That's realllly annoying.
Addressbook and Calendar syncing could be better, for some reason not all contacts or events appear after syncing.
My hopes is that Apple buys out Yahoo and puts their engineers to focus on Mobileme or perhaps buy Dropbox or other specialized companies to improve the service.
Joyent looks good.
MobileMe upload speeds are the same as any other uploads for me. Sync problems? None. 90% of the time they happen almost instaneoudsly and the other 10% within minutes. I don't use the web email and I'm not sure I see the advantage of doing so. Having two apple iOS devices and a Mac, the point of MobileMe email is that I can set up each device by simply logging into my MobileMe account once and for all. Then all the native apps, (mail, calendar, contacts, bookmarks) do their thing seamlessly. Why tie yourself to a web portal instead?
Apple buys yahoo? Common now! Do you seriously think apple doesn't have the resources or staff to make improvements to MobileMe? I think you are selling them awfully short. And if apple buys every company suggested here (AT&T so they can become a carrier, Sony for content and gaming, yahoo for sync and cloud, etc) well...need I say more?