ePubs is an open format and those purchased books can be used elsewhere.
Reading those books via iBooks isn't keeping you from reading those books from a 3rd party application that can be developed and support ePubs format.
You just won't get all the extra little touches like preview a book and then buy the book via iBooks without a third party having to develop those services that Apple developed for it's users, not for it's jailbroken users.
Have you read the terms and conditions that you agreed to before downloading anything from iTunes?
I certainly haven't - but I'd bet my hat that there's a clause in there which allows Apple to do exactly what it's done. The jury might be out on whether it's immoral, but illegal it ain't.
The harping on the "legality" is missing the point by a mile. If you bought a new car and then immediately starting tinkering with the engine, you wouldn't have done anything "illegal," but you'd have to be pretty dim to expect the manufacturer to stand by the warranty, let alone guarantee that the car would continue to work the same way as it did when it left the factory.
Now, books I have purchased for ~$15 each are not viewable?
How is this not extortion? What I am doing (jailbreaking) is perfectly legal. What Apple has done, is denying me the ability to view a book I have legitimately paid for.
This is nothing short of extortion. Now, this will create a new effort by people to crack the DRM on iBooks; and when the DRM is broken on iBooks - this will create a new Book piracy industry that does not exist today.
As we used to say in grade school - "Nice move, Ex-lax"
every company out there will only support "supported" configurations. you can play all you want, but don't expect anyone to support every homebrew configuration that people make up.
25% sounds high. You're assuming that they would buy it in the first place. Since Apple provides no app trials, I know people who use pirated apps as a way to try out an app before jumping in. Do you provide a "lite" version? Is it a fairly inexpensive application? I can't see anyone pirating a $.99 app...
I can assure you that 25% is correct. I was surprised myself. Each time they're run our apps report, via our analytics service, whether they've been cracked or not. We do offer a lite (free) version of the same app as well. The free version shows that it is never cracked. The full priced $4.99 version, which provides incredible value, is run 25% of the time stolen. Whether or not those same 25% of people would actually buy the app is another question, but 25% of the people running the app on any given day are running stolen copies. So while they might not buy it, they surely like to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubei_nj
Also, Apple has a super easy way to combat piracy - look at the tweaks and utilities that people jailbreak for and put similar technology into your OS. If iOS had SBSettings or BiteSMS (my two major jailbroken apps) I wouldn't jailbreak.
As stated above, we can easilly detect a cracked app (this is how I get to the 25% number) but we're loath to play a cat and mouse game with the crackers. We'd rather invest in new features and content for our app, and wish apple would play the policeman more for their 30%
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
I doubt it.
As far as I can tell, for the DRM-protected books, you get a license to view the book on up to 5 authorized devices. I imagine in the terms of service for the license there's a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo about what constitutes an authorized device, and a jailbroken iOS device probably doesn't meet Apple's criteria.
I want to point out, Apple is not allowing them to use a jailbroken phone, the courts are. Apple wants a completely closed system to keep their 30% coming. It might not be extortion, but I would be interested in the usage agreement that you acknowledge when you download the app. I suspect that the policy might conflict with what the courts have said that the iphone must be open.
I don't think it was a court that decided jailbrake is legal, but the library of congress. And by legal, it means Apple can't sue users who jailbrake for jailbraking itself, but nothing prevents Apple from putting up technical barriers to discourage jailbraking.
So, a 'Pre-emtive strike' on iBooks, for something I may, or may not do in the future; is justification for preventing me from accessing iBooks I have legitimately already paid for? Why not block the iPod functionality - just in case? Why not shut down my phone service, just in case?
Jailbreaking is LEGAL.
Denying me access to material that I have legitimately purchased is ILLEGAL.
Simple enough?
Nobody's denying you access you dimwit. There's a way to access it. This is necessary because of the content deals. Literally no one of any importance cares about your problem.
What you really hear is Apple saying is lets support developers.
In what way is this telling the consumer that Apple is supporting developers?
I want to use legitimate apps on my iPhone that Apple decides I shouldn't be able to use for whatever asinine reason they come up with. If I want to use the volume buttons as a camera shutter then I should be able to, but Steve Jobs doesn't want me to be able to. So I jailbreak my phone and pay for an app outside of the Apple Store that I want.
I'm supporting a developer that Apple clearly does not want to support. If Apple truly wanted to show support for developers then it would allow most/all of the apps available through Cydia and elsewhere through the Apple Store. Clearly Apple only wants to support developers who stay fully in lock step with Apple's own restrictive ideas of what you can and cannot do with the devices you buy.
Now Apple goes and cripples iBooks so that it forces people like me to make a decision. If I want to purchase reading materials do I go with Apple & iBooks and forego the apps I purchased through channels other than the authorized Apple ones? Or do I completely abandon Apple's method of providing reading content and go with Kindle? Seems like a no-brainer to me, and one that only hurts Apple's own content developers but not me. I have yet to start purchasing e-books but when I do this will be a huge deciding factor for me. Given Apple's behavior today I'll probably never buy e-books through them. I'll go with Kindle or something else, and I'll also warn family & friends away from Apple as well.
Nobody's denying you access you dimwit. There's a way to access it. This is necessary because of the content deals. Literally no one of any importance cares about your problem.
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
You're less bright than you profess. It's not illegal. If the publishers don't want Apple to keep jailbreakers from respecting their DRM they will stop their licensing deals with Apple which authorizes them to use their works that you buy a license to use on that platform. Good luck in suing that corporation and your defense is that they don't have a right to restrict access to their legally owned properties.
What you really hear is Apple saying is lets support developers. Jailbreaking is the way apps are pirated. Not all people with jailbroken iPhones (?) steal software but per news reports there are enough of them out there that at times it has been approx 90% stolen 10% purchased (for certain apps). Lets pay people for their hard work. Typically apps are in the $0.99 to $4.99 range with the lower side being more the norm. Is it too much to ask to pay people for their hard work.
I get it that to some folks they feel limited and they want to hack the iPhone. I also see what has happened with the android OS and am glad I am in this walled garden, no virus protection needed, not much in the app store as far as stolen content or apps, malware or the like. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll keep my iPhone.
BTW: I am also a developer.
I jailbroke my iPhone just to enable it to run on different network. Apple, start selling unlocked phones in US and jailbreaking will drop significantly.
This is why I hate copyright. The whole shenanigans Apple and so many corporations have to do to ensure that intellectual work behaves like private property in a "proper" capitalist market are nothing short of ensuring an enslaving world, in the name of "security" and the "market", where our freedoms are completely destroyed.
This particular issue is just a small detail. But it is quite telling.
You're less bright than you profess. It's not illegal. If the publishers don't want Apple to keep jailbreakers from respecting their DRM they will stop their licensing deals with Apple which authorizes them to use their works that you buy a license to use on that platform. Good luck in suing that corporation and your defense is that they don't have a right to restrict access to their legally owned properties.
I also think that the legalistic approach to this shenanigan is silly. Instead, a blowback against DRM'd books is in the making. More troubles are already predictably ahead, just like what happened with the mp3 market. Publishers may think that this is good for the authors et al, but alas it isn't. It just makes the public angry and confused at what they are actually buying or not.
In the meanwhile, all my future book purchases will be through Kindle. iBooks has a lot of polish - but Kindle doesn't deny me access to the books I have paid for. And when you have dropped over $100 on books - this is a big deal.
Kindle may not deny you access to the books you've paid for, but Apple might deny you access to Kindle. We'll know its fate on March 31.
"the practice of jailbreaking to run unauthorized code was deemed legal by the U.S. government last July"
What Apple is doing is legal as well. They are not preventing anyone from jailbreaking their phone, they are simply refusing to co-operate. That's their right.
If I can unlock my iPhone, run MyWi (which I paid for) instead of paying AT&T extra for bandwidth I already purchased, run XBMC, SBSettings, FolderEnhancer...
Until then, I'll jailbreak. The iPhone and iPad are fantastic devices, but they are too restricted by Apple. If they make it impossible to hack them, I will choose one of the many options that are quickly becoming available (Android, WebOS...)
And no, I don't pirate apps or books. I pay for everything. Which is another reason why I, as a paying customer, refuse to let the vendors dictate how I will use the stuff I purchased.
Comments
ePubs is an open format and those purchased books can be used elsewhere.
Reading those books via iBooks isn't keeping you from reading those books from a 3rd party application that can be developed and support ePubs format.
You just won't get all the extra little touches like preview a book and then buy the book via iBooks without a third party having to develop those services that Apple developed for it's users, not for it's jailbroken users.
Get it?
Go get Stanza: http://www.lexcycle.com/
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
Have you read the terms and conditions that you agreed to before downloading anything from iTunes?
I certainly haven't - but I'd bet my hat that there's a clause in there which allows Apple to do exactly what it's done. The jury might be out on whether it's immoral, but illegal it ain't.
The harping on the "legality" is missing the point by a mile. If you bought a new car and then immediately starting tinkering with the engine, you wouldn't have done anything "illegal," but you'd have to be pretty dim to expect the manufacturer to stand by the warranty, let alone guarantee that the car would continue to work the same way as it did when it left the factory.
I bought my iPhone from AT&T for $200
I pay my monthly AT&T bill of $113
I jailbreak my phone
Now, books I have purchased for ~$15 each are not viewable?
How is this not extortion? What I am doing (jailbreaking) is perfectly legal. What Apple has done, is denying me the ability to view a book I have legitimately paid for.
This is nothing short of extortion. Now, this will create a new effort by people to crack the DRM on iBooks; and when the DRM is broken on iBooks - this will create a new Book piracy industry that does not exist today.
As we used to say in grade school - "Nice move, Ex-lax"
every company out there will only support "supported" configurations. you can play all you want, but don't expect anyone to support every homebrew configuration that people make up.
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
Citations to support this claim, please.
25% sounds high. You're assuming that they would buy it in the first place. Since Apple provides no app trials, I know people who use pirated apps as a way to try out an app before jumping in. Do you provide a "lite" version? Is it a fairly inexpensive application? I can't see anyone pirating a $.99 app...
I can assure you that 25% is correct. I was surprised myself. Each time they're run our apps report, via our analytics service, whether they've been cracked or not. We do offer a lite (free) version of the same app as well. The free version shows that it is never cracked. The full priced $4.99 version, which provides incredible value, is run 25% of the time stolen. Whether or not those same 25% of people would actually buy the app is another question, but 25% of the people running the app on any given day are running stolen copies. So while they might not buy it, they surely like to use it.
Also, Apple has a super easy way to combat piracy - look at the tweaks and utilities that people jailbreak for and put similar technology into your OS. If iOS had SBSettings or BiteSMS (my two major jailbroken apps) I wouldn't jailbreak.
As stated above, we can easilly detect a cracked app (this is how I get to the 25% number) but we're loath to play a cat and mouse game with the crackers. We'd rather invest in new features and content for our app, and wish apple would play the policeman more for their 30%
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
I doubt it.
As far as I can tell, for the DRM-protected books, you get a license to view the book on up to 5 authorized devices. I imagine in the terms of service for the license there's a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo about what constitutes an authorized device, and a jailbroken iOS device probably doesn't meet Apple's criteria.
I want to point out, Apple is not allowing them to use a jailbroken phone, the courts are. Apple wants a completely closed system to keep their 30% coming. It might not be extortion, but I would be interested in the usage agreement that you acknowledge when you download the app. I suspect that the policy might conflict with what the courts have said that the iphone must be open.
I don't think it was a court that decided jailbrake is legal, but the library of congress. And by legal, it means Apple can't sue users who jailbrake for jailbraking itself, but nothing prevents Apple from putting up technical barriers to discourage jailbraking.
So, a 'Pre-emtive strike' on iBooks, for something I may, or may not do in the future; is justification for preventing me from accessing iBooks I have legitimately already paid for? Why not block the iPod functionality - just in case? Why not shut down my phone service, just in case?
Jailbreaking is LEGAL.
Denying me access to material that I have legitimately purchased is ILLEGAL.
Simple enough?
Nobody's denying you access you dimwit. There's a way to access it. This is necessary because of the content deals. Literally no one of any importance cares about your problem.
What I hear apple saying here is they want me to buy kindle books from now on.
You need a hearing aid then.
What you really hear is Apple saying is lets support developers.
In what way is this telling the consumer that Apple is supporting developers?
I want to use legitimate apps on my iPhone that Apple decides I shouldn't be able to use for whatever asinine reason they come up with. If I want to use the volume buttons as a camera shutter then I should be able to, but Steve Jobs doesn't want me to be able to. So I jailbreak my phone and pay for an app outside of the Apple Store that I want.
I'm supporting a developer that Apple clearly does not want to support. If Apple truly wanted to show support for developers then it would allow most/all of the apps available through Cydia and elsewhere through the Apple Store. Clearly Apple only wants to support developers who stay fully in lock step with Apple's own restrictive ideas of what you can and cannot do with the devices you buy.
Now Apple goes and cripples iBooks so that it forces people like me to make a decision. If I want to purchase reading materials do I go with Apple & iBooks and forego the apps I purchased through channels other than the authorized Apple ones? Or do I completely abandon Apple's method of providing reading content and go with Kindle? Seems like a no-brainer to me, and one that only hurts Apple's own content developers but not me. I have yet to start purchasing e-books but when I do this will be a huge deciding factor for me. Given Apple's behavior today I'll probably never buy e-books through them. I'll go with Kindle or something else, and I'll also warn family & friends away from Apple as well.
Nobody's denying you access you dimwit. There's a way to access it. This is necessary because of the content deals. Literally no one of any importance cares about your problem.
Agreed.
What Apple is doing with iBooks is not legal, and if this were a court case, Apple would be laughed out.
Get it?
You're less bright than you profess. It's not illegal. If the publishers don't want Apple to keep jailbreakers from respecting their DRM they will stop their licensing deals with Apple which authorizes them to use their works that you buy a license to use on that platform. Good luck in suing that corporation and your defense is that they don't have a right to restrict access to their legally owned properties.
What you really hear is Apple saying is lets support developers. Jailbreaking is the way apps are pirated. Not all people with jailbroken iPhones (?) steal software but per news reports there are enough of them out there that at times it has been approx 90% stolen 10% purchased (for certain apps). Lets pay people for their hard work. Typically apps are in the $0.99 to $4.99 range with the lower side being more the norm. Is it too much to ask to pay people for their hard work.
I get it that to some folks they feel limited and they want to hack the iPhone. I also see what has happened with the android OS and am glad I am in this walled garden, no virus protection needed, not much in the app store as far as stolen content or apps, malware or the like. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll keep my iPhone.
BTW: I am also a developer.
I jailbroke my iPhone just to enable it to run on different network. Apple, start selling unlocked phones in US and jailbreaking will drop significantly.
This particular issue is just a small detail. But it is quite telling.
You're less bright than you profess. It's not illegal. If the publishers don't want Apple to keep jailbreakers from respecting their DRM they will stop their licensing deals with Apple which authorizes them to use their works that you buy a license to use on that platform. Good luck in suing that corporation and your defense is that they don't have a right to restrict access to their legally owned properties.
I also think that the legalistic approach to this shenanigan is silly. Instead, a blowback against DRM'd books is in the making. More troubles are already predictably ahead, just like what happened with the mp3 market. Publishers may think that this is good for the authors et al, but alas it isn't. It just makes the public angry and confused at what they are actually buying or not.
I, for one, will never buy an e-book. Ever.
I, for one, will never buy an e-book. Ever.
Enjoy not being able to buy books in the future.
In the meanwhile, all my future book purchases will be through Kindle. iBooks has a lot of polish - but Kindle doesn't deny me access to the books I have paid for. And when you have dropped over $100 on books - this is a big deal.
Kindle may not deny you access to the books you've paid for, but Apple might deny you access to Kindle. We'll know its fate on March 31.
What Apple is doing is legal as well. They are not preventing anyone from jailbreaking their phone, they are simply refusing to co-operate. That's their right.
Until then, I'll jailbreak. The iPhone and iPad are fantastic devices, but they are too restricted by Apple. If they make it impossible to hack them, I will choose one of the many options that are quickly becoming available (Android, WebOS...)
And no, I don't pirate apps or books. I pay for everything. Which is another reason why I, as a paying customer, refuse to let the vendors dictate how I will use the stuff I purchased.