Legacy apps must comply with Apple's App Store subscription rules by June 30

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  • Reply 121 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post


    Because Jobs said that in-app purchases must offer the "same deal," app developers won't be able to offer small discounts to entice people to make out-app purchases (and avoid paying 30% to Apple).



    I wonder what the law is for that.

    Can Apple make it a contractual agreement that prices must match?

    IMO Tit-for-tat -Apple makes them put the purchase 'option' on the app, vendor sets the price.



    This article implies a vendor cannot set a different price(if Im reading this correctly)



    http://www.freshfields.com/publicati...2006/13899.pdf



    Is there a lawyer in the house?
  • Reply 122 of 256
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by battiato1981 View Post


    What is the percentage that Amazon takes from an outside, independent Amazon Marketplace vendor accessed through their site? Anyone know?



    According to amazon website, it's 6-25%.
  • Reply 123 of 256
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Overhead? What overhead? There's no overhead, it's a simple revenue sharing system. If your app generates revenue, you agree to share it.



    30% isn't sharing revenue, that's taking practically all the profit. The number of companies who can get anywhere close to 30% in gross profit from sales (after taking out overhead costs and licensing fees) is next to nil. if it were 30% of the profit they MIGHt have a point, but they are saying 30% of revenue. We're not talking about an indie app developer who sells additional levels in app. That has a cost, but it's all developer overhead.



    We're talking about companies like Netflix that have to pay MILLIONS to get the rights to stream certain shows, pay for servers to host the content, pay for the DRM servers to keep the studios happy, pay to have their content delivered to end users. Look at the Netflix income statement. in December they posted a mere 37% gross profit. Now, that sounds like a lot but lets break it down. Hypotetically, let's say that all subscribers of Netflix have an iOS device they have the app on. I know this is not true to real life, but we don't have the real number.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=nflx



    Apple would take .30 of every dollar netflix brought in. If you look at their December numbers, this would mean that almost 80% of their gross profit would go to Apple. In December they only made a net income of 6.8%. This means that if Every Netflix customer had an iOS device registered with netflix, the company would've made NO money whatsoever.



    Yes, I know that not every Netflix customer has an iPhone. That's not the point. The point is that by requiring 30% of revenue, Apple is potentially taking EVERY CENT of profit and then some. That's not revenue sharing, that's highway robbery.



    Apple's basically saying: You do all the hard work, and we get paid for it.
  • Reply 124 of 256
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    30% isn't sharing revenue, that's taking practically all the profit. The number of companies who can get anywhere close to 30% in gross profit from sales (after taking out overhead costs and licensing fees) is next to nil.



    Apple's basically saying: You do all the hard work, and we get paid for it.





    the whole idea behind in-app purchases was to reduce the number of lite demo apps so that people would buy one app and buy the extra functionality within the app so the base app could be like a demo. before that free apps had to be free and if you liked an app you had to find the real one. it was actually a good idea



    except that with kindle and other book apps they were always free and you had to buy the content outside of the app store
  • Reply 125 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    That only holds true if iOS is a PROFITABLE venue for their content, which this change might make impossible. Digital distribution isn't a high-margin industry. Those companies rely on VOLUME to turn the profit, not individual sales. If you take 30% of the revenue for each sale out, that leaves next to no room (if any) for any form of profit, and if a marketplace isn't profitable, companies leave that marketplace.



    There is NO way you can spin this as a net gain for customers. The in app purchase option is nice, but people WON'T offer it unless it makes the money. So they either need to raise prices across the board (and punish everyone) or they withdrawl from the iOS store entirely.



    We're not talking alternative platforms here. We're talking profitability. Even if Amazon/netflix/hulu+ had NO other mobile platform to go to, they would still pull out of apple's ecosystem if it stopped making them money.



    It's completely a net gain for customers. Content providers are going to sell content where they can and iOS is the place. Customers don't have to give up personal information and they don't have to remember where to go to change their subscription options. There won't be any downside for customers, and publishers will make money on iOS.
  • Reply 126 of 256
    [QUOTE=starbird73;1808196]It doesn't? Like another post states, it puts amazon, netflix, etc on the same playing field as Joe's App Shop. Apple manages the transaction, users know that only one place has their credit card, etc. Plus, think of it this way. Users who don't have a credit card can now use iTunes gift cards for these in app purchases. It is streamlining the entire process, which, in the end, will benefit all companies involved.





    Such convoluted thinking - Bagdad Bob would be proud.



    First, Joe's app shop is selling an app not other content such as the Amazon bookstore, netflix's etc.

    Second, its Apple's desire to "manage" transactions - not these vendors. In other words their "management" is solely to collect 30% of the transaction price. Third, "streamlining" the process for an extremely high fee! Guess who ends up paying for the additional cost - you the purchaser. Personally I'm not interested in paying a 30% Apple sales tax. Fourth, companies like Amazon, Netflix and Hulu Plus will likely pull their store from the App Store. Explain how this helps the user! Look, I use a lot of Apple products. But, when they behave like a banana republic I'm certainly not going to apologize for or overlook their actions.
  • Reply 127 of 256
    tjwaltjwal Posts: 404member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Actually, it is your post that is irrelevant to the point under discussion.



    However, as long as iOS remains the place where there are a large number of consumers able and willing to pay for content (as opposed to alternative platforms like Android, where no one wants to pay for anything) then the content providers will be there. The incentive is that that's where the customers are, and this isn't going to cause them to go anywhere.



    If there is no content there to sell, because content providers have moved on, then iOS will no longer be the place.
  • Reply 128 of 256
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    So, basically, you have no argument, nothing left but name calling?





    No. Sorry that probably didn't come out right. My observation is the vast majority of the people I have met who own iPads are not at all like the people on this forum. They generally have much more modest needs than the geeks around here. They tend to get sucked into the TV commercial mentality, It's Magical. They can't imagine anything more than what is presented. If they can't find math symbols on the keyboard, then they just give up and go reread Winnie the Pooh - that they remember how to do.
  • Reply 129 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    30% isn't sharing revenue, that's taking practically all the profit. The number of companies who can get anywhere close to 30% in gross profit from sales (after taking out overhead costs and licensing fees) is next to nil.



    Apple's basically saying: You do all the hard work, and we get paid for it.



    Right, no one is making money through the app store. You've gone over the edge to irrationality and absurdity.
  • Reply 130 of 256
    johnqhjohnqh Posts: 242member
    Third party apps do not have to use IAP. They can simply use the app as only a reader (for example, Kindle), and use their own website to charge for the content.



    The whole point is, you can do the marketing completely on your own, and Apple gets nothing; or if you want the aid from Apple (in this case, IAP within app for the payment), then Apple wants the cut.
  • Reply 131 of 256
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    It's completely a net gain for customers. Content providers are going to sell content where they can and iOS is the place. Customers don't have to give up personal information and they don't have to remember where to go to change their subscription options. There won't be any downside for customers, and publishers will make money on iOS.





    Companies will not offer content in iOS if it doesn't make them money. Netflix doesn't give a crap about the number of subscribers they have, they care about the number of PROFITABLE subscribers they have.



    This rule will result in only one of TWO outcomes:



    1) Content providers will increase the price across the board to compensate meaning EVERYONE pays more, even those of us without iOS devices.



    2) Content providers will drop an now unprofitable platform.



    NEITHER option is a net gain for consumers. Do you honestly think that ANY big company can just give up an extra 30% of their revenue? You're assuming that everything will continue the way it has with just the added "benefit" of everything going through itunes. It won't.



    Netflix isn't desperate for iOS subscribers. They're desperate for profit. They won't lose money ACROSS THE BOARD to make their user base larger.
  • Reply 132 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    No. Sorry that probably didn't come out right. My observation is the vast majority of the people I have met who own iPads are not at all like the people on this forum. They generally have much more modest needs than the geeks around here. They tend to get sucked into the TV commercial mentality, It's Magical. They can't imagine anything more than what is presented. If they can't find math symbols on the keyboard, then they just give up and go reread Winnie the Pooh - that they remember how to do.



    So, your argument seems to be that iOS users are stupid. Pretty much the same as before but worded differently. Not content with bashing Apple, bash their customers too?
  • Reply 133 of 256
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    It's completely a net gain for customers. Content providers are going to sell content where they can and iOS is the place. Customers don't have to give up personal information and they don't have to remember where to go to change their subscription options. There won't be any downside for customers, and publishers will make money on iOS.



    Prices going up seems like a big downside.
  • Reply 134 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    Companies will not offer content in iOS if it doesn't make them money. Netflix doesn't give a crap about the number of subscribers they have, they care about the number of PROFITABLE subscribers they have.



    This rule will result in only one of TWO outcomes:



    1) Content providers will increase the price across the board to compensate meaning EVERYONE pays more, even those of us without iOS devices.



    2) Content providers will drop an now unprofitable platform.



    NEITHER option is a net gain for consumers. Do you honestly think that ANY big company can just give up an extra 30% of their revenue? You're assuming that everything will continue the way it has with just the added "benefit" of everything going through itunes. It won't.



    Netflix isn't desperate for iOS subscribers. They're desperate for profit. They won't lose money ACROSS THE BOARD to make their user base larger.



    Companies will make plenty of money or their business models have bigger problems than this.
  • Reply 135 of 256
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Right, no one is making money through the app store. You've gone over the edge to irrationality and absurdity.



    No, you just don't know how to read.



    People are making a profit in the app store. We're not talking about indi developers here. We're talking about content providers like Netflix and hulu.



    Those companies WILL NOT make a profit with this revenue sharing model without jacking up prices across the board. A quick glance at their income statements will show you that. They DONT HAVE 30% of leeway to give.
  • Reply 136 of 256
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Companies will make plenty of money or their business models have bigger problems than this.



    Most successful companies run on a profit margin of well under 30%. In fact, almost every company does. I fail to see how you could believe differently.
  • Reply 137 of 256
    tjwaltjwal Posts: 404member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xsu View Post


    According to amazon website, it's 6-25%.



    Once thing to consider is that Amazon is providing a storefront for the smaller booksellers.
  • Reply 138 of 256
    mennomenno Posts: 854member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjwal View Post


    Once thing to consider is that Amazon is providing a storefront for the smaller booksellers.



    And amazon doesn't require that those sites sell products for the same price or cheaper through their storefront.
  • Reply 139 of 256
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Besides, I wonder if Apple's decision on this is more to head off Amazon's rumored subscription based TV and Movie service (subscription via the Amazon Prime membership)...



    Perhaps the rumor of Amazon's offering free Kindles with Amazon Prime Memberships will again resurface... If Amazon pulls the Kindle app and essentially provides a free Kindle, most users won't have jack to complain about....
  • Reply 140 of 256
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Menno View Post


    No, you just don't know how to read.



    People are making a profit in the app store. We're not talking about indi developers here. We're talking about content providers like Netflix and hulu.



    Those companies WILL NOT make a profit with this revenue sharing model without jacking up prices across the board. A quick glance at their income statements will show you that. They DONT HAVE 30% of leeway to give.



    Perhaps you forgot how to write. But, why don't you provide some of their income statements to back up your assertion.
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