What a joke. Apple exports every job it can overseas at at time when real unemployment in this country, especially among young adults, is running around 20%. And yet they promise that, just this once, they'll spend some of their overseas billions back home, that is, if only Congress will cut their tax rates by a tiny little 600%.
You'd think some of the wealthiest people in the world would care enough about their home country to bring the money in anyway, and that they'd gladly pay the taxes to help with this year's 1.5 trillion dollar deficit. But no, it appears that's too much to ask from them. Give them billions in tax breaks and they just might add a few hundred people to their US payrolls. Maybe.
Karl Marx was wrong about capitalism in general. There are a lot of good, honest, generous business people out there. I know some of them. But he was quite right about the perversion of capitalism that's practiced in the Silicon Valley. There we have billionaire executives whose great wealth is built on people working for pennies in Asian sweatshops.
Obama would give them this tax break in a flash. They voted for him and it's just the sort of Chicago crony politics he's practiced for his entire political life. We can only hope that all those new Republicans we elected last fall show a bit more gumption.
Because those profits were realized overseas and and taxed at local jurisdiction's rates already. To bring them in, they have to pay additional taxes on top of what they already paid to local jurisdictions. If they don't bring them in, they dont have to pay (which is what they are doing now).
Also, I pay well over 40% of my income to taxes, is it fair that I pay 45% while you pay 26%?
No, it's isn't fair. Everybody (including corporations) should pay the same flat tax. And yes, these corps should pay the same amount when they bring the money back to the States even if they paid local taxes elsewhere. I wish I was saddled with 1/2 to 2/3 of 60 billion dollars. Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Sure, why not let Apple and others bring in a trillion dollars tax free. Obama's raising my taxes and local, state and federal agencies are raising fees I pay on everything. We the people can easily afford to pay our own taxes and fees plus Apple's. Let the rich corporations have a holiday. I'll just get a third job so that Steve Jobs can rebuild his Palo Alto home in true style.
I know it feels good to say that 'corporations' should pay their fair share and all that.
Guess who pays all the taxes, directly or indirectly, at the end of the day.
Hmm, provided a stable market place for it to sell its products, provide an adequate legal structure and rule of law and allowed it to enforce its contracts, provide a favorable marketplace for it to raise capital and enable it to make the investments that it has made, protect its technological innovations domestically and abroad and provide it with an intelligent workforce. The list goes on and on.
Do you think Apple Inc. can survive in a lawless governmentless place such as Somalia?
Obama would give them this tax break in a flash. They voted for him and it's just the sort of Chicago crony politics he's practiced for his entire political life. We can only hope that all those new Republicans we elected last fall show a bit more gumption.
Don't try to hold your breath until Republicans lead the charge to raise corporate taxes.
No, it's isn't fair. Everybody (including corporations) should pay the same flat tax. And yes, these corps should pay the same amount when they bring the money back to the States even if they paid local taxes elsewhere. I wish I was saddled with 1/2 to 2/3 of 60 billion dollars. Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. There are plenty of huge organizations that are LLCs or LPs (such as the company that I work for) that make billions of dollars in income that pay no taxes.
Before you get all in a tizzy over this, the owners report the income and pay the taxes as if they made the money themselves (this is called pass-through taxation).
Hmm, so ignorance is bliss? You favor corporations over individuals?
Corporations 'over' individuals? What nonsense.
Where do you think most taxpaying individuals work? Who do you think manufactures your food, clothes, shelter, transportation, computers, entertainment, .......?
This whole issue has less to do with the level of tax rates in the US than it does with the weird system of taxation that the US subscribes to compared to the of the rest of the world: the 'worldwide,' as opposed to the 'territorial' system of taxation.
In the worldwide system, income is taxed in the home country rate regardless of where it is earned if income abroad is taxed at a lower rate than in the home country. In the territorial system (e.g., the one many European companies subscribe to) you are presumed to have taken care of your tax obligations if you have paid your taxes abroad as required by the place where you do business, regardless of what the rate is.
Guess which system encourages all types of tax-related transfer pricing shenanigans, parking cash abroad, and incorporating in places like Bermuda and the Marshall Islands?
The US seriously needs to consider fundamentally overhauling its tax system -- especially, corporate tax system -- and not just its corporate tax rate, if it has any hope of dealing with its deficits.
Most companies with sound tax pros pay o ly the amt. If the government caves on a tax holiday it may as well just institute a 5% corp rate. If companies want acess to an educated and productive workforce, affluent customers and a fair legal system they have to pay, just like everyone else. Tax system insentivises behavior to build fair business practices and encourage investment in the future, hence the charity, Ada environmental credits. It shouldn't encourage parking cash outside the country and waiting for a tax holiday. That is counter productive.
Pretty much only the US tries to double tax like that and hence only US companies need to engage in such strategies to reduce their taxes to internationally competitive levels..
No they aren't, take a look at the goings on of a lot of the EU based pharmaceutical giants, they're the one's who pretty much invented these schemes.
The presumption for corporate taxes is that corporations really don't pay taxes, individuals do -- because any taxes are passed onto employees with lower wages, or to consumers with higher prices.
I think Apple should look at the FairTax (fairtax.org). It replaces our current tax system with a consumption tax (in a progressive way -- it's a tiny bit more complicated than a straight national retail sales tax. It would replace corporate taxes, social security taxes, and income taxes with a simple retail tax -- and it was designed to generate the same amount of revenue for the government. The end result is that you keep all of your paycheck, the IRS goes away, and you pay taxes when you buy retail. It's not a VAT, in that it just charges the final product - so business-to-business transactions are left untaxed.
FairTax did a study on the effect of this, and it would bring a lot of that overseas profit back onshore, which as it's redistributed and spent, would be taxed. It would also tax foreign products at the same rate as domestically produced products, which is not what happens today, so it would level the playing field and help reduce the trade deficit.
It is definitely not something Washington would push on it's own, but with enough word of mouth - we could make this a reality.
No they aren't, take a look at the goings on of a lot of the EU based pharmaceutical giants, they're the one's who pretty much invented these schemes.
The US (along with Japan) is among the very few major economies that has the worldwide, as opposed to the territorial, system of taxation. So, the previous poster is (sort of) right, and getting at something quite important.
Because those profits were realized overseas and and taxed at local jurisdiction's rates already. To bring them in, they have to pay additional taxes on top of what they already paid to local jurisdictions. If they don't bring them in, they dont have to pay (which is what they are doing now).
Also, I pay well over 40% of my income to taxes, is it fair that I pay 45% while you pay 26%?
It's far from fair. He should pay zero and you should pay 99% if he was honest in his expressions.
Seriously, corporations don't pay that tax until after they collect the from the consumer. It's just one more way that real taxes an individual pays is masked by layers of regulation and enforced by classism. Regulations are the way big Corp keeps little Corp from rising. Government partnering with business is just one recipe for screw the govererned.
However, even though the Treasury Department attempted to write rules at the time to ensure the money would be invested locally, most of the cash (60 to 92 percent, according to one study cited in the report) was simply returned to shareholders in the form of stock buybacks and dividends.
Golly, how unfair! Did the study happen to research what those consumers did with their money? Surely they didn't burn it, right?
The presumption for corporate taxes is that corporations really don't pay taxes, individuals do -- because any taxes are passed onto employees with lower wages, or to consumers with higher prices.
It is definitely not something Washington would push on it's own, but with enough word of mouth - we could make this a reality.
This is why I like Obama's idea of getting rid of all of the corporate tax loopholes and lowering the corporate tax rate.
And I'm a pretty hardcore conservative (fiscally, on social matters, I'm in the I don't give a crap camp).
Ok so about two things
On #1 i'll believe it when I see it, until then it's propoganda
On #2, this makes complete sense that the U.S. economy would benefeit. The tax was probably originally to protect american industry from outside competition (which it doesn't need, doesn't work, and we yell at other countries for doing) or as a 'hidden' export tax, as in we can't tax our exports or our goods will be less wanted, but if we tax the cost to make them, then it won't seem like, "the U.S. is screwing us over" from international consumers.
Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Greedy pricks insist on taxing overseas profits based on greed and nothing more. Even worse, the selfish bastards dont care if it drives jobs overseas, as long as their job is secure.
Comments
at least Apple's not sending all the money to tax haven... like Google.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1043146825.htm
5% is still way more than 2.4% Google's paying.
two wrongs dont make a right, nor do they make add up to make a left.
You'd think some of the wealthiest people in the world would care enough about their home country to bring the money in anyway, and that they'd gladly pay the taxes to help with this year's 1.5 trillion dollar deficit. But no, it appears that's too much to ask from them. Give them billions in tax breaks and they just might add a few hundred people to their US payrolls. Maybe.
Karl Marx was wrong about capitalism in general. There are a lot of good, honest, generous business people out there. I know some of them. But he was quite right about the perversion of capitalism that's practiced in the Silicon Valley. There we have billionaire executives whose great wealth is built on people working for pennies in Asian sweatshops.
Obama would give them this tax break in a flash. They voted for him and it's just the sort of Chicago crony politics he's practiced for his entire political life. We can only hope that all those new Republicans we elected last fall show a bit more gumption.
Because those profits were realized overseas and and taxed at local jurisdiction's rates already. To bring them in, they have to pay additional taxes on top of what they already paid to local jurisdictions. If they don't bring them in, they dont have to pay (which is what they are doing now).
Also, I pay well over 40% of my income to taxes, is it fair that I pay 45% while you pay 26%?
No, it's isn't fair. Everybody (including corporations) should pay the same flat tax. And yes, these corps should pay the same amount when they bring the money back to the States even if they paid local taxes elsewhere. I wish I was saddled with 1/2 to 2/3 of 60 billion dollars. Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Sure, why not let Apple and others bring in a trillion dollars tax free. Obama's raising my taxes and local, state and federal agencies are raising fees I pay on everything. We the people can easily afford to pay our own taxes and fees plus Apple's. Let the rich corporations have a holiday. I'll just get a third job so that Steve Jobs can rebuild his Palo Alto home in true style.
I know it feels good to say that 'corporations' should pay their fair share and all that.
Guess who pays all the taxes, directly or indirectly, at the end of the day.
What has the U.S. ever done for Apple?
Hmm, provided a stable market place for it to sell its products, provide an adequate legal structure and rule of law and allowed it to enforce its contracts, provide a favorable marketplace for it to raise capital and enable it to make the investments that it has made, protect its technological innovations domestically and abroad and provide it with an intelligent workforce. The list goes on and on.
Do you think Apple Inc. can survive in a lawless governmentless place such as Somalia?
Obama would give them this tax break in a flash. They voted for him and it's just the sort of Chicago crony politics he's practiced for his entire political life. We can only hope that all those new Republicans we elected last fall show a bit more gumption.
Don't try to hold your breath until Republicans lead the charge to raise corporate taxes.
No, it's isn't fair. Everybody (including corporations) should pay the same flat tax. And yes, these corps should pay the same amount when they bring the money back to the States even if they paid local taxes elsewhere. I wish I was saddled with 1/2 to 2/3 of 60 billion dollars. Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. There are plenty of huge organizations that are LLCs or LPs (such as the company that I work for) that make billions of dollars in income that pay no taxes.
Before you get all in a tizzy over this, the owners report the income and pay the taxes as if they made the money themselves (this is called pass-through taxation).
Hmm, so ignorance is bliss? You favor corporations over individuals?
Corporations 'over' individuals? What nonsense.
Where do you think most taxpaying individuals work? Who do you think manufactures your food, clothes, shelter, transportation, computers, entertainment, .......?
In the worldwide system, income is taxed in the home country rate regardless of where it is earned if income abroad is taxed at a lower rate than in the home country. In the territorial system (e.g., the one many European companies subscribe to) you are presumed to have taken care of your tax obligations if you have paid your taxes abroad as required by the place where you do business, regardless of what the rate is.
Guess which system encourages all types of tax-related transfer pricing shenanigans, parking cash abroad, and incorporating in places like Bermuda and the Marshall Islands?
The US seriously needs to consider fundamentally overhauling its tax system -- especially, corporate tax system -- and not just its corporate tax rate, if it has any hope of dealing with its deficits.
The purpose of management is to exploit each employee to the greatest potential and earn a profit for the corporation.
The CFO has the obligation of finding any and every way to avoid paying anyone anything they don't have to.
From hourly wages, to benefits and corporate taxes, it's all the same. Pay as little as the law allows.
When you want to capitalize here and your capital is elsewhere you ask for exceptions to the tax laws.
It's been going on for decades. Apple is one of the many, many corporations to do this.
Their current success makes using their name in the headline good news, hence profit for those that sell news.
It also provides hits for this site and allows greater sales of advertising on the site.
It's the current state of capitalism in this country. No real news here at all.
Pretty much only the US tries to double tax like that and hence only US companies need to engage in such strategies to reduce their taxes to internationally competitive levels..
No they aren't, take a look at the goings on of a lot of the EU based pharmaceutical giants, they're the one's who pretty much invented these schemes.
Anyone here ever been to business school ?
Have you? When? Where?
I think Apple should look at the FairTax (fairtax.org). It replaces our current tax system with a consumption tax (in a progressive way -- it's a tiny bit more complicated than a straight national retail sales tax. It would replace corporate taxes, social security taxes, and income taxes with a simple retail tax -- and it was designed to generate the same amount of revenue for the government. The end result is that you keep all of your paycheck, the IRS goes away, and you pay taxes when you buy retail. It's not a VAT, in that it just charges the final product - so business-to-business transactions are left untaxed.
FairTax did a study on the effect of this, and it would bring a lot of that overseas profit back onshore, which as it's redistributed and spent, would be taxed. It would also tax foreign products at the same rate as domestically produced products, which is not what happens today, so it would level the playing field and help reduce the trade deficit.
It is definitely not something Washington would push on it's own, but with enough word of mouth - we could make this a reality.
No they aren't, take a look at the goings on of a lot of the EU based pharmaceutical giants, they're the one's who pretty much invented these schemes.
The US (along with Japan) is among the very few major economies that has the worldwide, as opposed to the territorial, system of taxation. So, the previous poster is (sort of) right, and getting at something quite important.
Because those profits were realized overseas and and taxed at local jurisdiction's rates already. To bring them in, they have to pay additional taxes on top of what they already paid to local jurisdictions. If they don't bring them in, they dont have to pay (which is what they are doing now).
Also, I pay well over 40% of my income to taxes, is it fair that I pay 45% while you pay 26%?
It's far from fair. He should pay zero and you should pay 99% if he was honest in his expressions.
Seriously, corporations don't pay that tax until after they collect the from the consumer. It's just one more way that real taxes an individual pays is masked by layers of regulation and enforced by classism. Regulations are the way big Corp keeps little Corp from rising. Government partnering with business is just one recipe for screw the govererned.
However, even though the Treasury Department attempted to write rules at the time to ensure the money would be invested locally, most of the cash (60 to 92 percent, according to one study cited in the report) was simply returned to shareholders in the form of stock buybacks and dividends.
Golly, how unfair! Did the study happen to research what those consumers did with their money? Surely they didn't burn it, right?
The presumption for corporate taxes is that corporations really don't pay taxes, individuals do -- because any taxes are passed onto employees with lower wages, or to consumers with higher prices.
It is definitely not something Washington would push on it's own, but with enough word of mouth - we could make this a reality.
Epic first post.
This is why I like Obama's idea of getting rid of all of the corporate tax loopholes and lowering the corporate tax rate.
And I'm a pretty hardcore conservative (fiscally, on social matters, I'm in the I don't give a crap camp).
Ok so about two things
On #1 i'll believe it when I see it, until then it's propoganda
On #2, this makes complete sense that the U.S. economy would benefeit. The tax was probably originally to protect american industry from outside competition (which it doesn't need, doesn't work, and we yell at other countries for doing) or as a 'hidden' export tax, as in we can't tax our exports or our goods will be less wanted, but if we tax the cost to make them, then it won't seem like, "the U.S. is screwing us over" from international consumers.
Greedy pricks won't bring the money back to the U.S. out of greed and nothing more.
Greedy pricks insist on taxing overseas profits based on greed and nothing more. Even worse, the selfish bastards dont care if it drives jobs overseas, as long as their job is secure.