Apple looking to increase battery life with dense lithium battery cells

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 57
    takeotakeo Posts: 440member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vjo,npd View Post


    You would think there time and money could be better spent elsewhere right now... the current MBP already last 8 hours or so..



    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling
  • Reply 22 of 57
    bigcbigc Posts: 1,224member
    [QUOTE=....



    In addition, current-charge densities further reduce the battery's cycle life if it is at a higher state of charge, between 70 percent and 100 percent.



    ...QUOTE]



    Has this always been the case for Lithium batteries, don't remember seeing that mentioned before...
  • Reply 23 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    I don't know enough to be able to evaluate the significance of this, but on the face of it I find it very interesting that Apple is doing R&D into battery technology rather than just relying on the battery producers to do it.



    I had a Macbook Pro with a battery designed and built by a battery producer. The battery failed in a few months, was replaced, and failed again. First battery swelled up, splitting open and nearly catching on fire. Second battery was down to 50% life after 30 charge cycles, however I wasn't using it enough and was in the middle of a major depression and failed to get it replaced under warranty. Frankly because my laptop sits in its case for weeks on end, I ought to just sell the whole piece of crap for an iPad.
  • Reply 24 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    And that ^, everyone, is how a troll responds to an article on improving battery life.



    And that ^, everyone, is how a robot without any sense of humour responds to a sarcastic joke.
  • Reply 25 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    I don't know enough to be able to evaluate the significance of this, but on the face of it I find it very interesting that Apple is doing R&D into battery technology rather than just relying on the battery producers to do it.



    I think eventually Apple will be facing off against the patents and innovations already owned by automotive companies, not just battery companies. Keep pushing, Apple! We'll be driving Apple iCars yet!
  • Reply 26 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vjo,npd View Post


    You would think there time and money could be better spent elsewhere right now... the current MBP already last 8 hours or so..



    I think their time and money is being spent very well on this. This should not change the current critical path for most projects but an increase in power requirements would move this into the critical path so in order to be prepared and improve now is the time.



    Just out of curiosity when would you suggest Apple press forward on this?



    Lighter is better, in this case smaller is also better. The combination add up to the opportunity to reduce the weight of devices, increase the battery life, or have room for something else. Typically faster processors (more cores, etc...) require more juice - I for one like to keep things snappy.



    IMHO this is an excellent use of resources and I say good on ya, keep on truckin'.
  • Reply 27 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Hey, what ever happened to those fuel cell laptop batteries? Bwahahahaha!



    Seriously, for good or bad, there is nothing like hydrocarbons for energy density/transportation. Battery tech(for now) will be a slow incremental process of improvement.



    May I suggest this article regarding 'tech breakthoughs or lack there of'. Food for thought.



    http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/ic...gy_Summary.pdf



    If you want to solve the energy problems of this country, just provide the right incentives for Apple's engineers... and a cranky Steve Jobs.
  • Reply 28 of 57
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,022member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    Yeah... but wouldn't you like a MBP that weighs less?



    Does smaller = lighter?
  • Reply 29 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post


    Apple is trying to create/enhance technologies so that others cannot even come close to duplicating Apple's products.



    Think MagSafe connector.

    Think LiquidMetal, this battery R&D.



    I believe you nailed when you said, and I quote "Think..."
  • Reply 30 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vjo,npd View Post


    You would think there time and money could be better spent elsewhere right now... the current MBP already last 8 hours or so..



    I suspect they have battery people working on this...so if they aren't working on battery research, they're face down in a gutter in downtown SF...so don't worry this isn't taking resources away from other things.
  • Reply 31 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    Does smaller = lighter?



    Not always, but in this case the only density I see changing is in the amount of charge the device can take by using a more sophisticated regulation of voltage. Even if a new material were used it is hard for me to imagine that the amount of energy they are able to pack into this device would be overcome by the mass densities of the materials used.



    Maybe packing that many more electrons in the device does weigh a bunch more than I initially thought though?





    -------------------



    I looked up the mass (rest) of an electron out of curiosity:

    Mass of electron: 9.10938 * 10-31 kg

    which is approx. 1/1900th of a proton - for those that want to work it out for extra credit.
  • Reply 32 of 57
    ihxoihxo Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post


    Apple is trying to create/enhance technologies so that others cannot even come close to duplicating Apple's products.



    Think MagSafe connector.

    Think LiquidMetal, this battery R&D.



    So far no one can create any notebook with the build quality of a unibody macbook.

    And magsafe is still the most advanced power connector on the market.



    They are already way ahead of the competition, but it's good to know that they are always looking for something to improve on.
  • Reply 33 of 57
    johnqhjohnqh Posts: 242member
    And I would like Apple to have a small backup battery (20 minutes?) in all of their products, including desktop and monitors.



    The occasional power outage, however infrequent, can ruin the day.
  • Reply 33 of 57
    joe hsjoe hs Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post


    Maybe packing that many more electrons in the device does weigh a bunch more than I initially thought though?



    An electron only weighs 5.4857990943(23)×10−4 u
  • Reply 35 of 57
    Quote:

    "What is needed is a technique for increasing the energy capacity of a rechargeable lithium battery without increasing the size of the battery sell," the filing states.



    I'm not how important the size of a battery 'sell' is, but the size of the Cell could be important?
  • Reply 35 of 57
    [QUOTE=Bigc;1810605]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ....



    In addition, current-charge densities further reduce the battery's cycle life if it is at a higher state of charge, between 70 percent and 100 percent.



    ...QUOTE





    Has this always been the case for Lithium batteries, don't remember seeing that mentioned before...



    All chemical batteries have specific charge regimes and engineers must balance cost, ease-of-use, battery performance, battery life, etc...



    Lithium batteries have always required careful charging. This patent describes an even more careful and precise charging method. It is not a battery breakthrough per se. The great run-times for macbook-pro is thanks to highly optimized charge/discharge algorithms. This continues along those lines. Implementing such charging circuitry isn't cheap, but increasingly necessary as expectations increase and mobile devices are becoming for many people, essentials instead of gadgets.
  • Reply 37 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soward View Post


    I'm not how important the size of a battery 'sell' is, but the size of the Cell could be important?



    Might want to check your own grammar when posting a correction of another person's grammar/word use. It is however funny that they used the word sell when obviously meaning cell - and probably should have left it out all together.
  • Reply 38 of 57
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,299member
    I do see a problem that will be caused by this. That is, a problem that will result from this, and one other thing that we've all heard about.



    Remember the agreement forced by the EU over the mobile charger "problem"? The agreement that forces manufacturers to not include a charger with their new cell phones, and perhaps digital media players? The one that requires a one size fits all charger over a USB connector?



    Well, these batteries and their required charger are very different to what is being used now. How will Apple convince the stupid EU that they need their own charger to recharge the phones and iPod Touches that have these new, higher power, longer lasting batteries? Can they?
  • Reply 39 of 57
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    Does smaller = lighter?



    I'm not a chemist, but the patent states that they want to increase both volumetric (space) density and gravimetric (weight) density. So, for the same amount of space and weight, you get more energy. Or, the same amount of energy in a smaller, lighter package.
  • Reply 40 of 57
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,299member
    [QUOTE=Naboozle;1810696]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bigc View Post




    All chemical batteries have specific charge regimes and engineers must balance cost, ease-of-use, battery performance, battery life, etc...



    Lithium batteries have always required careful charging. This patent describes an even more careful and precise charging method. It is not a battery breakthrough per se. The great run-times for macbook-pro is thanks to highly optimized charge/discharge algorithms. This continues along those lines. Implementing such charging circuitry isn't cheap, but increasingly necessary as expectations increase and mobile devices are becoming for many people, essentials instead of gadgets.



    Battery technology has become so complex these days, especially with higher capacity types used in mobile computers, that they have their own computers to monitor their health.
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