Dropping the macbook in place of the air could be hard for schools - the lack of an ethernet port for master image laptop depoloyment is a major loss. There will be tears if this happens... imaging hundreds of machines with usb/ethernet adapters would be a PITA...
users directory being on a different volume than the boot volume? I have played with that and its a pain in the a** no matter how you do it. Its not just files, its the whole user directory library which contains caches, prefs, app support etc.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
It doesn't sound very difficult for the unix engineers at Apple to do this. Unix has long been able to mount a partition at any arbitrary location, e.g. 2nd hard disk mounted at /Users. OS X can do this.
If this is happening Apple would make the two drives invisible - or rather, appear like one. No way would Apple sacrifice usability for speed. EVERYBODY would end up complaining.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
Right... and does anyone really think apple would bother with this if it weren't seamless? Too many Mac users (and PC users, for that matter) would have a hell of a lot of trouble dealing with two partitions, especially with one as small as 16gb, they were forced to constantly rearrange files and set priorities.
Unrelated -- is SSD write "fatigue" still an issue?
That's not what it says. It's not a 16 GB Boot disk, it's an SSD/platter hybrid disk - like the Seagate Momentus. Seagate claims that they obtain 83% of the performance of a true SSD at only a modest cost premium. That makes infinitely more sense than for Apple to add a 16 GB SSD to a separate hard disk - and then try to educate users to keep their frequently used files on the SSD and their archives on the hard disk.
That does sound a lot simpler. If there's any truth to this rumor, then I'll bet that's what they do. Having a separate stick of memory like the one in the air would be creating a lot of complication. I'll bet you're right and they do it like the Momentus, and perhaps make it work better or in a more defined way. It would be a more minor software tweak, probably like a point release. Plus they could give it a special name and a flashy new icon, and charge a lot more to replace it when it breaks. Apple loves to do that.
Then again they could sell a separate stick as a "speeder upper" and then sell bigger and bigger proprietary sticks.
Either way it goes (stick or momentus) I'll bet it shows up like one disk in the system.
And it said users will have the option to add a matte screen to the high-end 13-inch MacBook Pro.
Wow, nobody has commented on this yet? If the high-end 13" should have dedicated graphics and a matte/anti-glare option, then I have finally found my everyday notebook (and my 17" MBP will not be updated for another year).
Not sure if I should wish for LightPeak. Smells like another huge wave of $29.95 adapters on the horizon.
I agree the standard install for apps as well as users folder would change. An OS update would be needed. I dont see this rolling out right now. Not this close to ( far from?) 10.7 coming out
Well for all you know it will come with an updated version of 10.6 to deal with this.
How do you do that? Are there optical drives shaped SSD's? Would be cool. I upgraded my MBP years ago with a 256GB SSD, the unit rocks now, and no vibrations from the drive.
Remove the optical drive, replace it with the caddy (with ssd inserted).
If you get a caddy from Optibay they give you a "free" USB enclosure for the Superdrive you've taken out. US$99 for the caddy and superdrive enclosure.
If this is happening Apple would make the two drives invisible - or rather, appear like one. No way would Apple sacrifice usability for speed. EVERYBODY would end up complaining.
Not sure what you're implying by "sacrifice usability". There is no reason an end user have to know there are 2 separate drives; it's an internal complication that Apple engineers are supposed to figure out for you.
Having them appear as a single drive saves Apple from having to educate users on technical differences between SSD & HD drives, and non-techie users don't need to worry about choosing which file goes on what drive.
I already have a MBP 15 with high res matte screen, i5 and 128gb SSD in place of the Superdrive. It's great.
Glad Apple are going to make this the official way forward
My only concern with introducing Light Peak if that they'll finally ditch Firewire - so in some ways I'm glad I have the old model (though could do with 10 hours of battery life)!
ps 128gb is only just big enough for my system and users folder (which includes my docs and mail). The iTunes library is farmed out to the other disk (a momentus xt 512)
Dropping the macbook in place of the air could be hard for schools - the lack of an ethernet port for master image laptop depoloyment is a major loss. There will be tears if this happens... imaging hundreds of machines with usb/ethernet adapters would be a PITA...
Dropping the macbook in place of the air could be hard for schools - the lack of an ethernet port for master image laptop depoloyment is a major loss. There will be tears if this happens... imaging hundreds of machines with usb/ethernet adapters would be a PITA...
-Dan
What are the chances of them updating the Air as well to Sandy Bridge? Renaming the line Macbook and Macbook Pro - only the Pro with OD, all with Sandy Bridge, all aluminium and dropping the Air nomenclature. Could that be the 5 product numbers we've seen?
Not sure what you're implying by "sacrifice usability".
Sure you do - below you rephrase my point exactly
Quote:
There is no reason an end user have to know there are 2 separate drives; it's an internal complication that Apple engineers are supposed to figure out for you.
Having them appear as a single drive saves Apple from having to educate users on technical differences between SSD & HD drives, and non-techie users don't need to worry about choosing which file goes on what drive.
Core i and 12 hour battery would be great additions, but pretty much go hand in hand with each other and are nothing revolutionary though very impressive.
The SSD part however is very interesting and would really bring MacBooks in the same category as iPads in terms of startup speed, what apple called instant on. Hopefully this will have an even better tie in with the lion upgrade to deliver even faster boots and even longer standby times.
users directory being on a different volume than the boot volume? I have played with that and its a pain in the a** no matter how you do it. Its not just files, its the whole user directory library which contains caches, prefs, app support etc.
I don't get why everyone is so confused about this, all it takes is:
Code:
mount /dev/sdb1 /Users
in Unix the filesystem has nothing to do with your hard drive layout. all they have to do is not list the system partition in finder by default.
That does sound a lot simpler. If there's any truth to this rumor, then I'll bet that's what they do. Having a separate stick of memory like the one in the air would be creating a lot of complication. I'll bet you're right and they do it like the Momentus, and perhaps make it work better or in a more defined way. It would be a more minor software tweak, probably like a point release. Plus they could give it a special name and a flashy new icon, and charge a lot more to replace it when it breaks. Apple loves to do that.
Then again they could sell a separate stick as a "speeder upper" and then sell bigger and bigger proprietary sticks.
Either way it goes (stick or momentus) I'll bet it shows up like one disk in the system.
Let's hope they are not using the Momentus Hybrid...nothing but problems for people lately with these drives, especially with Macs.
Seagate is working on this (looks like a firmware issue) so it's pretty serious...
I keep all my data in a separate partition with only bare essentials in my home folder. Yet my boot partition already exceeds 60GB. 16 is worthless.
That 60GB isn?t required for booting your system. Just because you are storing all but your personal ?content? on that partition doesn?t mean it?s required for booting.
I have absolutely no idea why so many of you think that the physical drive has to contain so much data and that Apple, controlling the HW and OS can?t make this seamless to the user. Additionally, I have no idea why you have separate partitions for your content.
The 2 MacBook and 4 MacBooks Air models show shipping within 24 hours, which would be consistent with EOL-ing the MacBook and continuing the Air as is.
FWIW, the plastic enclosure on my 2-year-old MacBook has not been anywhere near as durable as my warhorse aluminum PowerBook G4.
You would be shocked at how many consumers want a white plastic notebook computer. An associate of mine has no trouble selling used MacBooks and even ancient iBooks, but struggles to move far superior MBPros and PowerBooks at similar prices.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
and how to do it. My own experience with it is that in use its a pain in the a**. Particularly with a small ssd boot disk, you are now constantly asking yourself what can fit where and if anything happens or you go to change the users folder disk, then you have an unbootable machine or extra hoops to jump through. In any case, there is no permissions repair this way as it currently stands.
The ssd as described is not a seagate hybrid. Either the description is incorrect or they are going to have to do something at the OS level to address the issues of what resides on what disk.
Comments
-Dan
users directory being on a different volume than the boot volume? I have played with that and its a pain in the a** no matter how you do it. Its not just files, its the whole user directory library which contains caches, prefs, app support etc.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
It doesn't sound very difficult for the unix engineers at Apple to do this. Unix has long been able to mount a partition at any arbitrary location, e.g. 2nd hard disk mounted at /Users. OS X can do this.
If this is happening Apple would make the two drives invisible - or rather, appear like one. No way would Apple sacrifice usability for speed. EVERYBODY would end up complaining.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
Right... and does anyone really think apple would bother with this if it weren't seamless? Too many Mac users (and PC users, for that matter) would have a hell of a lot of trouble dealing with two partitions, especially with one as small as 16gb, they were forced to constantly rearrange files and set priorities.
Unrelated -- is SSD write "fatigue" still an issue?
That's not what it says. It's not a 16 GB Boot disk, it's an SSD/platter hybrid disk - like the Seagate Momentus. Seagate claims that they obtain 83% of the performance of a true SSD at only a modest cost premium. That makes infinitely more sense than for Apple to add a 16 GB SSD to a separate hard disk - and then try to educate users to keep their frequently used files on the SSD and their archives on the hard disk.
That does sound a lot simpler. If there's any truth to this rumor, then I'll bet that's what they do. Having a separate stick of memory like the one in the air would be creating a lot of complication. I'll bet you're right and they do it like the Momentus, and perhaps make it work better or in a more defined way. It would be a more minor software tweak, probably like a point release. Plus they could give it a special name and a flashy new icon, and charge a lot more to replace it when it breaks. Apple loves to do that.
Then again they could sell a separate stick as a "speeder upper" and then sell bigger and bigger proprietary sticks.
Either way it goes (stick or momentus) I'll bet it shows up like one disk in the system.
And it said users will have the option to add a matte screen to the high-end 13-inch MacBook Pro.
Wow, nobody has commented on this yet? If the high-end 13" should have dedicated graphics and a matte/anti-glare option, then I have finally found my everyday notebook (and my 17" MBP will not be updated for another year).
Not sure if I should wish for LightPeak. Smells like another huge wave of $29.95 adapters on the horizon.
I agree the standard install for apps as well as users folder would change. An OS update would be needed. I dont see this rolling out right now. Not this close to ( far from?) 10.7 coming out
Well for all you know it will come with an updated version of 10.6 to deal with this.
How do you do that? Are there optical drives shaped SSD's? Would be cool. I upgraded my MBP years ago with a 256GB SSD, the unit rocks now, and no vibrations from the drive.
Buy an SSD, and a caddy such as this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-SATA-2nd-...item4aa7470a4c
Remove the optical drive, replace it with the caddy (with ssd inserted).
If you get a caddy from Optibay they give you a "free" USB enclosure for the Superdrive you've taken out. US$99 for the caddy and superdrive enclosure.
http://www.mcetech.com/optibay/
If this is happening Apple would make the two drives invisible - or rather, appear like one. No way would Apple sacrifice usability for speed. EVERYBODY would end up complaining.
Not sure what you're implying by "sacrifice usability". There is no reason an end user have to know there are 2 separate drives; it's an internal complication that Apple engineers are supposed to figure out for you.
Having them appear as a single drive saves Apple from having to educate users on technical differences between SSD & HD drives, and non-techie users don't need to worry about choosing which file goes on what drive.
Glad Apple are going to make this the official way forward
My only concern with introducing Light Peak if that they'll finally ditch Firewire - so in some ways I'm glad I have the old model (though could do with 10 hours of battery life)!
ps 128gb is only just big enough for my system and users folder (which includes my docs and mail). The iTunes library is farmed out to the other disk (a momentus xt 512)
Dropping the macbook in place of the air could be hard for schools - the lack of an ethernet port for master image laptop depoloyment is a major loss. There will be tears if this happens... imaging hundreds of machines with usb/ethernet adapters would be a PITA...
-Dan
Agreed.
Dropping the macbook in place of the air could be hard for schools - the lack of an ethernet port for master image laptop depoloyment is a major loss. There will be tears if this happens... imaging hundreds of machines with usb/ethernet adapters would be a PITA...
-Dan
What are the chances of them updating the Air as well to Sandy Bridge? Renaming the line Macbook and Macbook Pro - only the Pro with OD, all with Sandy Bridge, all aluminium and dropping the Air nomenclature. Could that be the 5 product numbers we've seen?
Not sure what you're implying by "sacrifice usability".
Sure you do - below you rephrase my point exactly
There is no reason an end user have to know there are 2 separate drives; it's an internal complication that Apple engineers are supposed to figure out for you.
Having them appear as a single drive saves Apple from having to educate users on technical differences between SSD & HD drives, and non-techie users don't need to worry about choosing which file goes on what drive.
The SSD part however is very interesting and would really bring MacBooks in the same category as iPads in terms of startup speed, what apple called instant on. Hopefully this will have an even better tie in with the lion upgrade to deliver even faster boots and even longer standby times.
users directory being on a different volume than the boot volume? I have played with that and its a pain in the a** no matter how you do it. Its not just files, its the whole user directory library which contains caches, prefs, app support etc.
I don't get why everyone is so confused about this, all it takes is:
mount /dev/sdb1 /Users
in Unix the filesystem has nothing to do with your hard drive layout. all they have to do is not list the system partition in finder by default.
That does sound a lot simpler. If there's any truth to this rumor, then I'll bet that's what they do. Having a separate stick of memory like the one in the air would be creating a lot of complication. I'll bet you're right and they do it like the Momentus, and perhaps make it work better or in a more defined way. It would be a more minor software tweak, probably like a point release. Plus they could give it a special name and a flashy new icon, and charge a lot more to replace it when it breaks. Apple loves to do that.
Then again they could sell a separate stick as a "speeder upper" and then sell bigger and bigger proprietary sticks.
Either way it goes (stick or momentus) I'll bet it shows up like one disk in the system.
Let's hope they are not using the Momentus Hybrid...nothing but problems for people lately with these drives, especially with Macs.
Seagate is working on this (looks like a firmware issue) so it's pretty serious...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...n_hybrid_drive
I don't get why everyone is so confused about this, all it takes is:
mount /dev/sdb1 /Users
in Unix the filesystem has nothing to do with your hard drive layout. all they have to do is not list the system partition in finder by default.
Why do that, Apple built a GUI option into Mac OS X years ago? It works flawlessly as I?ve been using it for years.
I keep all my data in a separate partition with only bare essentials in my home folder. Yet my boot partition already exceeds 60GB. 16 is worthless.
That 60GB isn?t required for booting your system. Just because you are storing all but your personal ?content? on that partition doesn?t mean it?s required for booting.
I have absolutely no idea why so many of you think that the physical drive has to contain so much data and that Apple, controlling the HW and OS can?t make this seamless to the user. Additionally, I have no idea why you have separate partitions for your content.
The 2 MacBook and 4 MacBooks Air models show shipping within 24 hours, which would be consistent with EOL-ing the MacBook and continuing the Air as is.
FWIW, the plastic enclosure on my 2-year-old MacBook has not been anywhere near as durable as my warhorse aluminum PowerBook G4.
You would be shocked at how many consumers want a white plastic notebook computer. An associate of mine has no trouble selling used MacBooks and even ancient iBooks, but struggles to move far superior MBPros and PowerBooks at similar prices.
Speaking as someone who's done Unix system administration for <counts on fingers... runs out..> many years, it's trivial to locate filesystem subtrees on different volumes and make them appear as if they're all part of a single tree. The whole Users, Applications, and Developer directories (the big ones on my system) can be located on the spinning disk and then symbolic linked into /
and how to do it. My own experience with it is that in use its a pain in the a**. Particularly with a small ssd boot disk, you are now constantly asking yourself what can fit where and if anything happens or you go to change the users folder disk, then you have an unbootable machine or extra hoops to jump through. In any case, there is no permissions repair this way as it currently stands.
The ssd as described is not a seagate hybrid. Either the description is incorrect or they are going to have to do something at the OS level to address the issues of what resides on what disk.