On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port)
They didn't replace anything. The mini Display Port port supports DisplayPort devices. It ALSO supports Thunderbolt. You plug in either one and it figures out what to speak. Very nice.
Thunderbolt at a time when USB 3 is gaining way more devices...
Why not Both? apple is too cheap to pay patents and parts on both.
Why not Blu-Ray? Apple is too cheap to pay patents and cost on it. let alone support it in OS, letting consumers install it for full proper use.
Apple has record profits, but it limits functionality for consumers choice. Won't let consumers pay for options they want. in case of BD, to protect the itunes movie rentals/sales.
Thunderbolt seems ok, but SSD is an option others offer also.
I'm not too worried, but I did note that number, too. I have 4 drives always connected to the FW port on one computer, and occassionally attach a 5th. There's still a FW port, so that's good if you have even more devices. I haven't had a chance to research it, but is 6 always going to be the limitation, or is that a first-implementation limit which may increase in the future (becase I assume sooner or later they will drop the FW port)? Again, haven't had time to do any research, but a few other questions come to mind: is it hot-swappable (I assume yes, in this day and age), what are the cable length restrictions, does it provide bus power and how much to run devices.
I'm in no hurry to upgrade, so I'll eventually go read Apple's pages to see what all they are saying about it.
Bit of a let down, after all the rumours going around.
I agree! Disappointed here too. I was really hoping for a SSD boot / HDD for data combination to replace the largely unused / unnecessary SuperDrive.
I knew that the "light peak / thunderbolt" port was coming and supposedly there will be adapters that will allow for connection from thunderbolt to other peripherals including USB, but I was really hoping that the remaining USB ports would be upgraded to 3.0 at least. Last thing I want to carry around is some type of "Lightpeak to USB dongle" in order to connect a USB 3.0 drive at max speed.
Also disappointed that they are still offering 5400 rpm drives as the "standard" option. These are premium notebooks, and they are being crippled with slow / cheap drives. For the money the MBP costs and the minor difference in price between 5400 and 7200 rpm drives, the 7200's should be the new standard on these (at least on the 15 and the 17 models).
I was thinking I would be upgrading this month, but I may consider waiting for the next one now, I am not sure there is enough of a step forward with this update to justify the $$$.
They didn't replace anything. The mini Display Port port supports DisplayPort devices. It ALSO supports Thunderbolt. You plug in either one and it figures out what to speak. Very nice.
- Jasen.
Hm, I assumed it could do both simultaneously? A single wire to a monitor that also has data ports so it can act as a hub.
"We're thrilled to collaborate with Intel to bring the groundbreaking Thunderbolt technology to Mac users," said Bob Mansfield, Apple's senior vice president of Mac Hardware Engineering. "With ultra-fast transfer speeds, support for high-resolution displays and compatibility with existing I/O technologies, Thunderbolt is a breakthrough for the entire industry and we think developers are going to have a blast with it."
– Bob Mansfield, Senior Vice President of Mac Hardware Engineering, Apple Inc.
I'm not too worried, but I did note that number, too. I have 4 drives always connected to the FW port on one computer, and occassionally attach a 5th. There's still a FW port, so that's good if you have even more devices. I haven't had a chance to research it, but is 6 always going to be the limitation, or is that a first-implementation limit which may increase in the future (becase I assume sooner or later they will drop the FW port)? Again, haven't had time to do any research, but a few other questions come to mind: is it hot-swappable (I assume yes, in this day and age), what are the cable length restrictions, does it provide bus power and how much to run devices.
I'm in no hurry to upgrade, so I'll eventually go read Apple's pages to see what all they are saying about it.
I'm not really worried either, as it is sure to handle anything I would be likely to throw at it, but it surprised me as FW has a theoretical limit of 64 devices (IIRC).
The only disappointment for me is the 8GB RAM limit.
Same here. I don't know what this insistence is on providing less. If one doesn't want an optical drive because you think that gets you the thinnest and lightest possible machine, that machine already exists. It's called the Air. I, for one, do not want Apple to cripple the MBP line to turn them into Airs and I don't think they want to either - that's why they have two product lines.
I definitely want an optical drive in my next MBP and while I think I like the idea of a combo SSD/HD, I would not want the hard disk removed completely unless the SSD has the same high capacity and was the same cost, but right now, a 250GB SSD is pretty expensive.
And while a "redesign" is always interesting because it's fun to see where Apple is going to take it next, there's nothing wrong with the current design of the MBP. It still looks better than every other laptop out there. It boggles the mind that almost every Windows laptop out there still only has analog video output. On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port), they still kept all the traditional USB, Firewire and Ethernet ports. I half expected them to drop one of those like they dropped the FW port a few years back, then had to restore it in later models.
I agree, but will go even further by stating that until SSD drives become available in 1 and 2 TB sizes, for the cost of a 1TB drive two years ago, you'll never see them replacing the plate drives which will continue to expand to 3 or 4 TB soon.
Same here. I don't know what this insistence is on providing less. If one doesn't want an optical drive because you think that gets you the thinnest and lightest possible machine, that machine already exists. It's called the Air. I, for one, do not want Apple to cripple the MBP line to turn them into Airs and I don't think they want to either - that's why they have two product lines.
I definitely want an optical drive in my next MBP and while I think I like the idea of a combo SSD/HD, I would not want the hard disk removed completely unless the SSD has the same high capacity and was the same cost, but right now, a 250GB SSD is pretty expensive.
And while a "redesign" is always interesting because it's fun to see where Apple is going to take it next, there's nothing wrong with the current design of the MBP. It still looks better than every other laptop out there. It boggles the mind that almost every Windows laptop out there still only has analog video output. On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port), they still kept all the traditional USB, Firewire and Ethernet ports. I half expected them to drop one of those like they dropped the FW port a few years back, then had to restore it in later models.
I already have an Air. It's a nice and portable machine, but not usable as a main computer. I don't want less, I simply don't want a feature I never make use of (and which takes up about 25% of the internal space on an MBP).
Seriously, I'm so sick of people saying "just get an Air" when someone points out the fact that the Superdrive is obsolete. An Air does not have a quad-core CPU. An Air does not have a large, hi-res display. An Air does not have a dedicated GPU. An Air does not have enough storage. An Air does not have 8GB RAM. An Air does not have Thunderbolt. An Air does not have a backlit keyboard.
It does have one thing the MBP should have gotten today, though, and that's the dedicated SSD - and no superfluous ODD.
Looks like the 17 doesn't have an SD card slot. I would rather have SD than the Express card since the only thing I use Express for is cell data which is just as easily done with USB now days.
I'm actually pretty hard to impress, but I have to say "Well done, Apple."
I'm interested enough to take an external to the store and see how it performs vs my current (2010) MBP 17. It may well end up that yet another family member gets a surprise gift this year.
Ah yes, the fabled "majority of users". I know a ton of Mac users, and no one ever uses the Superdrive. Why should they, anyway? Burning DVDs is slow, there are thumbdrives for that. And no one I know watches DVDs anymore, they're dead media.
Oh well, no MBP for me this time. Guess I'll wait for an updated iMac (yes, I know, there's a superfluous Superdrive in there too).
Ah yes, the fabled "all of the people I know" anecdotes. \
Is your assertion of "I know a ton of Mac users" any more accurate than throwing "a majority of users" out there? I'd think that Apple has a better idea than we all do about where the market truly is.
Looks like the 17 doesn't have an SD card slot. I would rather have SD than the Express card since the only thing I use Express for is cell data which is just as easily done with USB now days.
And I'd rather have ExpressCard/34 BACK on the 15" so that we could have SD, eSATA, USB 3 (for the people who don't think it's dead), more FireWire, a second built-in SSD...
You see? SD is pointless. ExpressCard is everything.
I already have an Air. It's a nice and portable machine, but not usable as a main computer. I don't want less, I simply don't want a feature I never make use of (and which takes up about 25% of the internal space on an MBP).
Seriously, I'm so sick of people saying "just get an Air" when someone points out the fact that the Superdrive is obsolete. An Air does not have a quad-core CPU. An Air does not have a large, hi-res display. An Air does not have a dedicated GPU. An Air does not have enough storage. An Air does not have 8GB RAM. An Air does not have Thunderbolt. An Air does not have a backlit keyboard.
It does have one thing the MBP should have gotten today, though, and that's the dedicated SSD - and no superfluous ODD.
You raise some great points.
I use my Superdrive a lot to rip movies, but I wish it was not there. I only rip movies while at home, but I take my MBP everywhere and would like to not have 25% of the unit not be needed 80% of the time. I would be happy to have an external drive for ripping and burning.
Also like you, I want the power that comes from the MBP. An Air will not suit my needs. I have replaced the internal drive with a SSD though.
And I'd rather have ExpressCard/34 BACK on the 15" so that we could have SD, eSATA, USB 3 (for the people who don't think it's dead), more FireWire, a second built-in SSD...
You see? SD is pointless. ExpressCard is everything.
I see your point. I don't use my MBP as a main computer since most of the work week I'm in the office with a MacPro. When I am out using my MBP I often have my camera so the SD card is nice. 17 is too big for my needs anyway. I think I'll wait this rev out since it looks like an intermediate bump not a redesign. Thunderbolt is interesting, however I wouldn't be at all surprised if TB 2.0 isn't on the horizon.
it seems to me that thundebolt just makes the sata connector inside appear as a limited bottleneck and therefore is better to have the system on a external disk!!
Comments
On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port)
They didn't replace anything. The mini Display Port port supports DisplayPort devices. It ALSO supports Thunderbolt. You plug in either one and it figures out what to speak. Very nice.
- Jasen.
Why not Both? apple is too cheap to pay patents and parts on both.
Why not Blu-Ray? Apple is too cheap to pay patents and cost on it. let alone support it in OS, letting consumers install it for full proper use.
Apple has record profits, but it limits functionality for consumers choice. Won't let consumers pay for options they want. in case of BD, to protect the itunes movie rentals/sales.
Thunderbolt seems ok, but SSD is an option others offer also.
I am thinking of replacing my MBP with a VAIO.
Thunderbolt can handle only up to 6 devices???
I'm not too worried, but I did note that number, too. I have 4 drives always connected to the FW port on one computer, and occassionally attach a 5th. There's still a FW port, so that's good if you have even more devices. I haven't had a chance to research it, but is 6 always going to be the limitation, or is that a first-implementation limit which may increase in the future (becase I assume sooner or later they will drop the FW port)? Again, haven't had time to do any research, but a few other questions come to mind: is it hot-swappable (I assume yes, in this day and age), what are the cable length restrictions, does it provide bus power and how much to run devices.
I'm in no hurry to upgrade, so I'll eventually go read Apple's pages to see what all they are saying about it.
Bit of a let down, after all the rumours going around.
I agree! Disappointed here too. I was really hoping for a SSD boot / HDD for data combination to replace the largely unused / unnecessary SuperDrive.
I knew that the "light peak / thunderbolt" port was coming and supposedly there will be adapters that will allow for connection from thunderbolt to other peripherals including USB, but I was really hoping that the remaining USB ports would be upgraded to 3.0 at least. Last thing I want to carry around is some type of "Lightpeak to USB dongle" in order to connect a USB 3.0 drive at max speed.
Also disappointed that they are still offering 5400 rpm drives as the "standard" option. These are premium notebooks, and they are being crippled with slow / cheap drives. For the money the MBP costs and the minor difference in price between 5400 and 7200 rpm drives, the 7200's should be the new standard on these (at least on the 15 and the 17 models).
I was thinking I would be upgrading this month, but I may consider waiting for the next one now, I am not sure there is enough of a step forward with this update to justify the $$$.
A 2.0GHz/i7-quad/8GB RAM/500GB(7200)HDD goes for $2099
A 2.6GHz/i7-dual/8GB RAM/500GB(7200)HDD went for $2649 yesterday
Although the latter probably compares better to the 2.2GHz quad with 1GB Radeon GPU ($2399)
edit: the upgraded 2.3GHz goes for $2649
They didn't replace anything. The mini Display Port port supports DisplayPort devices. It ALSO supports Thunderbolt. You plug in either one and it figures out what to speak. Very nice.
- Jasen.
Hm, I assumed it could do both simultaneously? A single wire to a monitor that also has data ports so it can act as a hub.
http://www.intel.com/technology/io/t...bolt/index.htm
"We're thrilled to collaborate with Intel to bring the groundbreaking Thunderbolt technology to Mac users," said Bob Mansfield, Apple's senior vice president of Mac Hardware Engineering. "With ultra-fast transfer speeds, support for high-resolution displays and compatibility with existing I/O technologies, Thunderbolt is a breakthrough for the entire industry and we think developers are going to have a blast with it."
– Bob Mansfield, Senior Vice President of Mac Hardware Engineering, Apple Inc.
Now I know why Apple was saying "no" to USB3. It was a transitional technology.
Bit of a let down, after all the rumours going around.
Agreed.
I'm not too worried, but I did note that number, too. I have 4 drives always connected to the FW port on one computer, and occassionally attach a 5th. There's still a FW port, so that's good if you have even more devices. I haven't had a chance to research it, but is 6 always going to be the limitation, or is that a first-implementation limit which may increase in the future (becase I assume sooner or later they will drop the FW port)? Again, haven't had time to do any research, but a few other questions come to mind: is it hot-swappable (I assume yes, in this day and age), what are the cable length restrictions, does it provide bus power and how much to run devices.
I'm in no hurry to upgrade, so I'll eventually go read Apple's pages to see what all they are saying about it.
I'm not really worried either, as it is sure to handle anything I would be likely to throw at it, but it surprised me as FW has a theoretical limit of 64 devices (IIRC).
The only disappointment for me is the 8GB RAM limit.
Same here. I don't know what this insistence is on providing less. If one doesn't want an optical drive because you think that gets you the thinnest and lightest possible machine, that machine already exists. It's called the Air. I, for one, do not want Apple to cripple the MBP line to turn them into Airs and I don't think they want to either - that's why they have two product lines.
I definitely want an optical drive in my next MBP and while I think I like the idea of a combo SSD/HD, I would not want the hard disk removed completely unless the SSD has the same high capacity and was the same cost, but right now, a 250GB SSD is pretty expensive.
And while a "redesign" is always interesting because it's fun to see where Apple is going to take it next, there's nothing wrong with the current design of the MBP. It still looks better than every other laptop out there. It boggles the mind that almost every Windows laptop out there still only has analog video output. On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port), they still kept all the traditional USB, Firewire and Ethernet ports. I half expected them to drop one of those like they dropped the FW port a few years back, then had to restore it in later models.
I agree, but will go even further by stating that until SSD drives become available in 1 and 2 TB sizes, for the cost of a 1TB drive two years ago, you'll never see them replacing the plate drives which will continue to expand to 3 or 4 TB soon.
Thunderbolt at a time when USB 3 is gaining way more devices...
Why not Both? apple is too cheap to pay patents and parts on both.
Of course, it's Apple's fault and not Intel's for not building the chipset with USB 3 support.
USB is dead.
Why not Blu-Ray? Apple is too cheap to pay patents and cost on it. let alone support it in OS, letting consumers install it for full proper use.
I don't know about Apple, but I DON'T WANT OS-LEVEL DRM ON MY COMPUTER. Also, you can already play Blu-ray disks in OS X.
Apple has record profits, but it limits functionality for consumers choice. Won't let consumers pay for options they want.
So Apple won't let people buy a computer from another company if they don't offer the ludicrous desires of the minority?
in case of BD, to protect the itunes movie rentals/sales.
Oh, no! Apple wants to make money from iTunes! How wrong!
Same here. I don't know what this insistence is on providing less. If one doesn't want an optical drive because you think that gets you the thinnest and lightest possible machine, that machine already exists. It's called the Air. I, for one, do not want Apple to cripple the MBP line to turn them into Airs and I don't think they want to either - that's why they have two product lines.
I definitely want an optical drive in my next MBP and while I think I like the idea of a combo SSD/HD, I would not want the hard disk removed completely unless the SSD has the same high capacity and was the same cost, but right now, a 250GB SSD is pretty expensive.
And while a "redesign" is always interesting because it's fun to see where Apple is going to take it next, there's nothing wrong with the current design of the MBP. It still looks better than every other laptop out there. It boggles the mind that almost every Windows laptop out there still only has analog video output. On these new models, I was really glad to see that even though Apple added the new Thunderbolt port (although it replaced the Display Port), they still kept all the traditional USB, Firewire and Ethernet ports. I half expected them to drop one of those like they dropped the FW port a few years back, then had to restore it in later models.
I already have an Air. It's a nice and portable machine, but not usable as a main computer. I don't want less, I simply don't want a feature I never make use of (and which takes up about 25% of the internal space on an MBP).
Seriously, I'm so sick of people saying "just get an Air" when someone points out the fact that the Superdrive is obsolete. An Air does not have a quad-core CPU. An Air does not have a large, hi-res display. An Air does not have a dedicated GPU. An Air does not have enough storage. An Air does not have 8GB RAM. An Air does not have Thunderbolt. An Air does not have a backlit keyboard.
It does have one thing the MBP should have gotten today, though, and that's the dedicated SSD - and no superfluous ODD.
I'm actually pretty hard to impress, but I have to say "Well done, Apple."
I'm interested enough to take an external to the store and see how it performs vs my current (2010) MBP 17. It may well end up that yet another family member gets a surprise gift this year.
Ah yes, the fabled "majority of users". I know a ton of Mac users, and no one ever uses the Superdrive. Why should they, anyway? Burning DVDs is slow, there are thumbdrives for that. And no one I know watches DVDs anymore, they're dead media.
Oh well, no MBP for me this time. Guess I'll wait for an updated iMac (yes, I know, there's a superfluous Superdrive in there too).
Ah yes, the fabled "all of the people I know" anecdotes.
Is your assertion of "I know a ton of Mac users" any more accurate than throwing "a majority of users" out there? I'd think that Apple has a better idea than we all do about where the market truly is.
Looks like the 17 doesn't have an SD card slot. I would rather have SD than the Express card since the only thing I use Express for is cell data which is just as easily done with USB now days.
And I'd rather have ExpressCard/34 BACK on the 15" so that we could have SD, eSATA, USB 3 (for the people who don't think it's dead), more FireWire, a second built-in SSD...
You see? SD is pointless. ExpressCard is everything.
I already have an Air. It's a nice and portable machine, but not usable as a main computer. I don't want less, I simply don't want a feature I never make use of (and which takes up about 25% of the internal space on an MBP).
Seriously, I'm so sick of people saying "just get an Air" when someone points out the fact that the Superdrive is obsolete. An Air does not have a quad-core CPU. An Air does not have a large, hi-res display. An Air does not have a dedicated GPU. An Air does not have enough storage. An Air does not have 8GB RAM. An Air does not have Thunderbolt. An Air does not have a backlit keyboard.
It does have one thing the MBP should have gotten today, though, and that's the dedicated SSD - and no superfluous ODD.
You raise some great points.
I use my Superdrive a lot to rip movies, but I wish it was not there. I only rip movies while at home, but I take my MBP everywhere and would like to not have 25% of the unit not be needed 80% of the time. I would be happy to have an external drive for ripping and burning.
Also like you, I want the power that comes from the MBP. An Air will not suit my needs. I have replaced the internal drive with a SSD though.
And I'd rather have ExpressCard/34 BACK on the 15" so that we could have SD, eSATA, USB 3 (for the people who don't think it's dead), more FireWire, a second built-in SSD...
You see? SD is pointless. ExpressCard is everything.
I see your point. I don't use my MBP as a main computer since most of the work week I'm in the office with a MacPro. When I am out using my MBP I often have my camera so the SD card is nice. 17 is too big for my needs anyway. I think I'll wait this rev out since it looks like an intermediate bump not a redesign. Thunderbolt is interesting, however I wouldn't be at all surprised if TB 2.0 isn't on the horizon.
it seems to me that thundebolt just makes the sata connector inside appear as a limited bottleneck and therefore is better to have the system on a external disk!!