I can help you with one of those. The port gives 10 watts of power, which is twice as much as USB 3.0. I read that on engadget, they already have a 15" review unit.
I've seen it alluded to, but not out-right stated, that this is a peer-to-peer technology. Or is it master-slave like USB? The peer-to-peer aspects of FW were seldom used, but Migration Assistant is one example. That's one thing people always pointed to when they feared the loss of Firewire. And if it's peer-to-peer, and also supports networking protocols like ethernet, could I daisy-chain Mac-HD-Mac and allow both Macs to access the hard drive at the same time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove
I'm curious how many displays a Thunderbolt connections can support in something like the new MBP. Will we be able to daisy chain two, three, four? I tend to keep my laptop and desktops separate, because of a four monitor system. Although there are methods to do this with the laptop, none are that great or that effortless. If Thunderbolt can be a plug it and forget kind of thing for four monitors, one laptop to rule them all might be something I'd get to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros
Likely one. Intel says one (or two), with no explanation for when the (or two) is applicable. The great limitation is that Thunderbolt currently only supports Displayport 1.1a, which doesn't really allow for daisy-chaining of displays (the new 6000-series GPUs support DP 1.2, which does, but to no utility).
Are there even any displays with support for daisy-chaining in the market today?
I think the "one (or two)" will depend on your video card. Thunderbolt (can we just say TB so I don't have to type it out everytime?) only passes the data. Throughput-wise it could probably handle more displays, but you still need a video card that can generate the data in the first place.
And I don't think you'd need a display that supports daisy-chaining. You'd only need a DisplayPort adaptor that support it. The adaptors would be daisy-chained and an individual display would hang off each adaptor. They wouldn't even know they were on a TB bus.
Of couse, they will eventually be displays that have a direct TB connection and also provide FW/USB ports on the display, all using the TB connection back to the computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by midlomuncher
2012 MacBook Pro & Air models will ship with only 1 port > Thunderbolt will allow thinner/cleaner Macs. Mark my words.
I think they will still include one USB port. There are just too many devices out there. You don't want someone to carry around an adaptor on the off-chance someone will hand them a flash drive they need to copy files off of. Speaking of which, will TB ever be cheap enough to allow it's use in inexpensive flash drives? I suspect the USB port will be around for some time to come.
I would have liked to see Intel get more industry players onboard before release. If Dell and HP and ACER and ASUS and other announce support in all or most of their 2011 products it will catch on like wildfire. If they stear clear, so will the add on companies and it will be wind up like firewire 800.
Hey, FW800 might be more expensive that USB 2 but I am very glad we had FW800 for all those years before USB 3 actually appeared. And if you add the price for a powered USB hub to the game, the premium of FW800 was not quite as high.
Hey, FW800 might be more expensive that USB 2 but I am very glad we had FW800 for all those years before USB 3 actually appeared. And if you add the price for a powered USB hub to the game, the premium of FW800 was not quite as high.
FW800 was not bad but it hardly caught on outside Apple and Apple dumped it like a hot potato(e).
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Heed the words of Henry Ford, which I hear is imprinted on a marble slab on the ground in the foyer of Apple HQ: "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse."
Was that before or after he sent Hitler his annual $50k birthday present?
The one thing that gives me envy of the new 17-inch over my late 2009 17-inch is the placement of the Thunderbolt port. The DisplayPort port is forward of the USB ports on my machine, which really annoys me.
It'll be interesting to see if this catches on, or if it'll just involve people buying a bunch of hubs, displayport-USB, -firewire and -miniUSB cables to be able to use it.
eSata never really caught on, and firewire has been basically mac-only for it's entire existence (besides video- and some audio-professionals).
USB3 has, in some ways, a lot more going for it because people can plug all of their existing USB peripherals directly into it without really thinking, while lightpeak will require everyone shelling out for all sorts of new cables. While the promise of a single cable is great, in practice it'll be quite a few years before it approaches being widespread.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that Apple and Intel would launch this without a single peripheral on the market that uses it yet? The intel video had a bunch of "coming soon" products in their demos, but didn't mention when they'd be released. Are Lacie/WD/Seagate et al reluctant enough about the tech that they couldn't co-ordinate some sort of launch at the same time?
And what's with the Thunderbolt moniker?
Sad and true.
When it comes to ports, Apple seem determined to live in a possible future, but I and all my devices live in the present.
They need to consider that you can push technology on your own platform to the limit but, when interacting with the outside world, you need to stick to what people really have.
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Well, two cables. Unless you want a dead battery in your MBP the next morning.
It'll be interesting to see if this catches on, or if it'll just involve people buying a bunch of hubs, displayport-USB, -firewire and -miniUSB cables to be able to use it.
eSata never really caught on, and firewire has been basically mac-only for it's entire existence (besides video- and some audio-professionals).
USB3 has, in some ways, a lot more going for it because people can plug all of their existing USB peripherals directly into it without really thinking, while lightpeak will require everyone shelling out for all sorts of new cables. While the promise of a single cable is great, in practice it'll be quite a few years before it approaches being widespread.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that Apple and Intel would launch this without a single peripheral on the market that uses it yet? The intel video had a bunch of "coming soon" products in their demos, but didn't mention when they'd be released. Are Lacie/WD/Seagate et al reluctant enough about the tech that they couldn't co-ordinate some sort of launch at the same time?
And what's with the Thunderbolt moniker?
What Thurderbolt has going for it is that it is more than USB, more than eSata, more than just a 1 typical use type port. I don't think we'll see the USB ports or others leaving the Mac anytime soon, this has far more implications for things like Docking systems & compact laptops like the MBAir.
The one thing I don't like is the integration with display, that will mean that if I want to connect a display adapter I might have to unplug a disk to hook up an extra monitor, unless they require that all devices must include a display passthrough port.
While the theoretical peak of the new connection seems pretty amazing, what will real world performance be since we are still limited to SATA and eSATA disks whose speeds are far under its capabilities? I know that moving forward, the "One Wire" philosophy will be a player with Apple, but where will the new speed come from?
Intel has said that 10 Gbps is not theoretical, but actual achievable bandwidth.
And yes, devices will always be limited by their own capabilities, but those devices will only use up the bandwidth they need, allowing others to transmit data in the remaining space.
For instance, I could have a FW800 RAID, an external display and an ethernet connection all running off the single Thunderbolt port. While they each have their own bandwidth limitations, they would all run full speed, no bottle neck.
Systems that use the new port will not get FireWire, USB, DisplayPort, etc. automatically, the hardware controllers for each still need to be there, as well as the software support in the operating system.
I hope PC manufacturers are going to adopt this as a standard as well, only then will it become standard.
I don't care what PC manufacturers do or don't do.
Intel said that this is specifically designed for audio and video and I'm certain that the Pros will gravitate towards Thunderbolt, because almost all pros use Macs. Firewire survived just fine without it being found on cheap PC laptops. The average PC user using inferior gear does not need the power of Thunderbolt.
Lacie has also just announced the first Thunderbolt external drive that I am aware of.
While the theoretical peak of the new connection seems pretty amazing, what will real world performance be since we are still limited to SATA and eSATA disks whose speeds are far under its capabilities?
You're thinking too small. Who says you'll only have one disk connected to your port? The bandwidth of Thunderbolt is supposed to be larger than that required by your devices so that you can put multiple devices of multiple types onto that one port.
I don't care what PC manufacturers do or don't do.
Intel said that this is specifically designed for audio and video and I'm certain that the Pros will gravitate towards Thunderbolt, because almost all pros use Macs. Firewire survived just fine without it being found on cheap PC laptops. The average PC user using inferior gear does not need the power of Thunderbolt.
Lacie has also just announced the first Thunderbolt external drive that I am aware of.
As I posted earlier, there are four or five companies that have announced RAID TB products. This will move quickly.
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Looks like this is not going to happen. Just read from the Intel's presentation:
DisplayPort devices must be the last device in chain.
Comments
I can help you with one of those. The port gives 10 watts of power, which is twice as much as USB 3.0. I read that on engadget, they already have a 15" review unit.
10 watts is not bad at all.
when will bestbuy have the new macbook pros in stockk??
Why not order directly?
I'm curious how many displays a Thunderbolt connections can support in something like the new MBP. Will we be able to daisy chain two, three, four? I tend to keep my laptop and desktops separate, because of a four monitor system. Although there are methods to do this with the laptop, none are that great or that effortless. If Thunderbolt can be a plug it and forget kind of thing for four monitors, one laptop to rule them all might be something I'd get to.
Likely one. Intel says one (or two), with no explanation for when the (or two) is applicable. The great limitation is that Thunderbolt currently only supports Displayport 1.1a, which doesn't really allow for daisy-chaining of displays (the new 6000-series GPUs support DP 1.2, which does, but to no utility).
Are there even any displays with support for daisy-chaining in the market today?
I think the "one (or two)" will depend on your video card. Thunderbolt (can we just say TB so I don't have to type it out everytime?) only passes the data. Throughput-wise it could probably handle more displays, but you still need a video card that can generate the data in the first place.
And I don't think you'd need a display that supports daisy-chaining. You'd only need a DisplayPort adaptor that support it. The adaptors would be daisy-chained and an individual display would hang off each adaptor. They wouldn't even know they were on a TB bus.
Of couse, they will eventually be displays that have a direct TB connection and also provide FW/USB ports on the display, all using the TB connection back to the computer.
2012 MacBook Pro & Air models will ship with only 1 port > Thunderbolt will allow thinner/cleaner Macs. Mark my words.
I think they will still include one USB port. There are just too many devices out there. You don't want someone to carry around an adaptor on the off-chance someone will hand them a flash drive they need to copy files off of. Speaking of which, will TB ever be cheap enough to allow it's use in inexpensive flash drives? I suspect the USB port will be around for some time to come.
I would have liked to see Intel get more industry players onboard before release. If Dell and HP and ACER and ASUS and other announce support in all or most of their 2011 products it will catch on like wildfire. If they stear clear, so will the add on companies and it will be wind up like firewire 800.
Hey, FW800 might be more expensive that USB 2 but I am very glad we had FW800 for all those years before USB 3 actually appeared. And if you add the price for a powered USB hub to the game, the premium of FW800 was not quite as high.
Hey, FW800 might be more expensive that USB 2 but I am very glad we had FW800 for all those years before USB 3 actually appeared. And if you add the price for a powered USB hub to the game, the premium of FW800 was not quite as high.
FW800 was not bad but it hardly caught on outside Apple and Apple dumped it like a hot potato(e).
Heed the words of Henry Ford, which I hear is imprinted on a marble slab on the ground in the foyer of Apple HQ: "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse."
Was that before or after he sent Hitler his annual $50k birthday present?
It'll be interesting to see if this catches on, or if it'll just involve people buying a bunch of hubs, displayport-USB, -firewire and -miniUSB cables to be able to use it.
eSata never really caught on, and firewire has been basically mac-only for it's entire existence (besides video- and some audio-professionals).
USB3 has, in some ways, a lot more going for it because people can plug all of their existing USB peripherals directly into it without really thinking, while lightpeak will require everyone shelling out for all sorts of new cables. While the promise of a single cable is great, in practice it'll be quite a few years before it approaches being widespread.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that Apple and Intel would launch this without a single peripheral on the market that uses it yet? The intel video had a bunch of "coming soon" products in their demos, but didn't mention when they'd be released. Are Lacie/WD/Seagate et al reluctant enough about the tech that they couldn't co-ordinate some sort of launch at the same time?
And what's with the Thunderbolt moniker?
Sad and true.
When it comes to ports, Apple seem determined to live in a possible future, but I and all my devices live in the present.
They need to consider that you can push technology on your own platform to the limit but, when interacting with the outside world, you need to stick to what people really have.
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Exactly.
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Well, two cables. Unless you want a dead battery in your MBP the next morning.
It'll be interesting to see if this catches on, or if it'll just involve people buying a bunch of hubs, displayport-USB, -firewire and -miniUSB cables to be able to use it.
eSata never really caught on, and firewire has been basically mac-only for it's entire existence (besides video- and some audio-professionals).
USB3 has, in some ways, a lot more going for it because people can plug all of their existing USB peripherals directly into it without really thinking, while lightpeak will require everyone shelling out for all sorts of new cables. While the promise of a single cable is great, in practice it'll be quite a few years before it approaches being widespread.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that Apple and Intel would launch this without a single peripheral on the market that uses it yet? The intel video had a bunch of "coming soon" products in their demos, but didn't mention when they'd be released. Are Lacie/WD/Seagate et al reluctant enough about the tech that they couldn't co-ordinate some sort of launch at the same time?
And what's with the Thunderbolt moniker?
What Thurderbolt has going for it is that it is more than USB, more than eSata, more than just a 1 typical use type port. I don't think we'll see the USB ports or others leaving the Mac anytime soon, this has far more implications for things like Docking systems & compact laptops like the MBAir.
The one thing I don't like is the integration with display, that will mean that if I want to connect a display adapter I might have to unplug a disk to hook up an extra monitor, unless they require that all devices must include a display passthrough port.
While the theoretical peak of the new connection seems pretty amazing, what will real world performance be since we are still limited to SATA and eSATA disks whose speeds are far under its capabilities? I know that moving forward, the "One Wire" philosophy will be a player with Apple, but where will the new speed come from?
Intel has said that 10 Gbps is not theoretical, but actual achievable bandwidth.
And yes, devices will always be limited by their own capabilities, but those devices will only use up the bandwidth they need, allowing others to transmit data in the remaining space.
For instance, I could have a FW800 RAID, an external display and an ethernet connection all running off the single Thunderbolt port. While they each have their own bandwidth limitations, they would all run full speed, no bottle neck.
Systems that use the new port will not get FireWire, USB, DisplayPort, etc. automatically, the hardware controllers for each still need to be there, as well as the software support in the operating system.
I hope PC manufacturers are going to adopt this as a standard as well, only then will it become standard.
I don't care what PC manufacturers do or don't do.
Intel said that this is specifically designed for audio and video and I'm certain that the Pros will gravitate towards Thunderbolt, because almost all pros use Macs. Firewire survived just fine without it being found on cheap PC laptops. The average PC user using inferior gear does not need the power of Thunderbolt.
Lacie has also just announced the first Thunderbolt external drive that I am aware of.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...throughput.ars
While the theoretical peak of the new connection seems pretty amazing, what will real world performance be since we are still limited to SATA and eSATA disks whose speeds are far under its capabilities?
You're thinking too small. Who says you'll only have one disk connected to your port? The bandwidth of Thunderbolt is supposed to be larger than that required by your devices so that you can put multiple devices of multiple types onto that one port.
I don't care what PC manufacturers do or don't do.
Intel said that this is specifically designed for audio and video and I'm certain that the Pros will gravitate towards Thunderbolt, because almost all pros use Macs. Firewire survived just fine without it being found on cheap PC laptops. The average PC user using inferior gear does not need the power of Thunderbolt.
Lacie has also just announced the first Thunderbolt external drive that I am aware of.
As I posted earlier, there are four or five companies that have announced RAID TB products. This will move quickly.
So now Apple can make their displays to serve also as dock stations. You come back home and connect your MBA or MBP to the big screen. All other stuff is already connected to your display, so you have to stick only 1 cable into your portable device. Clever. Oh, they even can make displays with hard drives and DVD/CD :-)
Looks like this is not going to happen. Just read from the Intel's presentation:
DisplayPort devices must be the last device in chain.